Voice of America House Hearing

Voice of America House Hearing

Trump adviser Kari Lake testifies on the U.S. agency that runs Voice of America. Read the transcript here.

Kari Lake speaks to House of Representatives.
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Rep. Meeks (00:00):

Refused to release their own investigation transcripts. So Mr. Chairman, if your findings are solid, release those transcripts now. The taxpayers who funded this work deserve transparency, not cherry-picked quotes that suit your sham narrative. And again, I ask that the transcripts, all of them, be made publicly so that the public can read and see everything. Not cherry-picked sentences. Before two was fed into the wood-chipper, USAGM and its broadcasters were reaching a record 427 million people weekly, delivering objective news to China, Iran, Russia, and other repressive states. Last year, VOA's Persian service recorded 223 million visits to its website, doubling over four years. It had 9.8 million social media followers and 1.8 billion Instagram views. Then, Ms. Lake, you put VOA Persian on leave in March, scrambled to restore it in June when war erupted and inexplicably a week later announced mass firings. So the question is, which is it? Is USAGM and the work it supports unsalvageable waste, as you have said, or is it a critical tool for diplomacy and facts?

(01:28)
What you are doing isn't efficiency, it's chaos. The dysfunction lies in the administration's allergy to truth and democracy, the two pillars that USAGM aims to promote abroad. So I'm not surprised by the choice to gut USAGM since the first Trump administration targeted the enterprise violating laws and journalistic integrity to shape it into a state media like Russia's or North Korea's. Today, those regimes are actually cheering as we surrender another potent set of soft power tools and abandon the airwaves. The Trump administration, again, chose extremism over facts, tearing down rather than building up our information advantage. Will Congress defend USAGM and free media or rubber stamp this capitulation to China, Russia and Iran? Our adversaries are already filling the void, but it's not too late to salvage USAGM, not from itself, as Ms. Lake says, but from this administration's short-sighted hatchet job. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.

Chairman Mast (02:52):

I thank the ranking member for his comments. I'd say be careful what you wish for. Ms. Lake has provided binders and binders of information that have been included in her opening statement, so they are in the official record and I'm sure everybody will looking forward to reading that documentation. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have the senior advisor for the US Agency of Global Media, Miss Carrie Lake, before us today. Your full statements will be made a part of the record and I'll ask you to keep your spoken remarks to roughly five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize you, Ms. Lake, for any opening statement that you may have.

Ms. Kari Lake (03:30):

Good morning and thank you Chairman Mast, and Ranking Member Meeks, and members of this House of Foreign Affairs Committee. Thanks for having me. My name is Kari Lake. I'm the Trump Administration senior advisor to the US Agency for Global Media. Before I get started, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to let you know this opening statement I'll be delivering is a shortened version of a longer version that I have submitted to you earlier and would love to be put into the Congressional record. Last December, President-elect Donald Trump called me and asked if I would help reform US Agency for Global Media and the Voice of America, and I said yes. I was honored and eager to help these institutions tell America's story to the world. But within days in my role as senior advisor, it became increasingly clear that reform was nearly impossible. The agency was incompetent and mismanaged and deeply corrupt, politically biased, and frankly a serious threat to our national security.

(04:22)
USAGM oversees VOA, Office of Cuba Broadcasting and grantees like Radio Free Asia, Radio Free Europe, Middle East Broadcasting Network, Open Technology Fund and Frontline Media Fund, all of which are 100% funded by the hard-working American people. Over the past 15 to 20 years, the agency has become a significant national security risk. They hire a shockingly high number of foreign nationals, and they conduct subpar security vetting, so bad that top intelligence agencies revoked this agency's ability to do even the most basic background checks. So many of USAGM's hires come from countries hostile to the United States. Over the decade from 2010 to 2020, Office of Personnel Management in the office of the director of National Intelligence repeatedly flagged severe security failures, but USAGM leadership ignored them. They continued to grant journalists and technicians, many from foreign nations, high-level security access based on falsified documents and incomplete background checks, phony names, phony social security numbers.

(05:28)
Even after corrective actions were taken in the final months of the Trump administration, these safeguards were reversed by the incoming Biden administration. The scale of the problem is staggering. During the first Trump administration, the political appointees led by CEO Michael Pack got to work fixing it, and they discovered that out of 150 people who were hired during that time period when they weren't doing appropriate vetting, 500 of them were still out there and they could not find them. They went back and re-vetted everybody, but 500 had gone missing. They could not be located for further screening. Foreign employees with social security numbers that are fake and fake names given top secret access now missing. That keeps me up at night. My team is working to track them down. Our new security director is working to try to turn this agency around and make it where it's safer. It's a vast problem that we've uncovered.

(06:23)
We've also uncovered that the grantees like Radio Free Europe hired people later identified as foreign spies. At one point, they nearly hired more than 20 spies from a nation hostile to America. Those hires were stopped thanks to a timely tip, and I'm happy to give you more information on that in a secure setting. Voice of America has employed individuals with direct ties to hostile nations. They even once paid for somebody who worked previously in Russian media writing anti-American stories to come on the staff and continue to write anti-American stories. At one point, a serious security threat to America, an office of Cuba Broadcasting Cuba was declared to be a national security threat. He was fired, thankfully, but he worked there for quite some time. So how did they get so many foreign nationals in? Well, they abuse the J-1 Visa program, which is a pathway to citizenship intended for exchange students and cultural exchanges, students, camp counselors, and au pairs. It's not intended for journalists and has created severe vulnerabilities and, frankly, it has displaced many, many American workers who could have filled these jobs.

(07:32)
VOA also sidestepped their charter to be reliable authoritative news instead, being riddled with political bias and outright anti-American sentiment. Examples, you mentioned it, Chairman, refusing to call Hamas terrorists, glamorizing Che Guevara, airing campaign-style videos favoring President Biden, even broadcasting a graphic depicting President Trump with a swastika over his face on their news. I wouldn't want that, by the way, even if it was President Biden. That's totally inappropriate. And a ridiculous editorial firewall prevents agency leadership like myself from correcting any of the bias or having any say in the editorial content that goes on the air. We've also got financial mismanagement, which I hope we'll go into. $75,000 spent for a COVID study on how Mac computers can be used for social distancing, a hundred thousand dollars in American taxpayer money to actually sponsor a Afghan cricket team, $400,000 for quid pro quo payments to African VOA affiliates. And they actually wrote "quid pro quo" next to the budget item. 825,000 for a New York music show and $6 million contract for consulting advice that was never even implemented.

(08:45)
I told these stories to people and many times they say, "Wow, this place sounds like a crime scene," And I frankly have just learned that it is indeed a crime scene. We've learned that there is an active investigation going on at VOA for a series of threatening phone calls that have been coming out, going after one of your colleagues, a sitting member of Congress, with years worth of threatening phone calls, and they've discovered that those phone calls were coming from inside the Voice of America. This place is rotten, it's rotten to the core. President Trump has asked me to go in and help clean it up, and he's also issued an executive order to reduce this agency down to its mandate, to what is mandated, statutorily required. That's exactly what I'm doing. I don't care if they attack me. We're going to make it right for the American taxpayers. And with that, I'm happy to answer any of your questions.

Chairman Mast (09:44):

Thank you, Ms. Lake, for your opening statements. We're now going to move to member questions. We ask that members keep their questions to five minutes. I'm going to begin by working down the line. I'll start by recognizing the chairman Emeritus, Representative McCaul.

Rep. McCaul (09:59):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Ms. Lake, thanks for being here. Today I want to thank you for visiting with me in my office to talk about these challenges that you've outlined, and I think the chairman has outlined them quite well. I want to commend you for reforming USAGM. I think every new administration has a right and responsibility to do so. Your testimony has highlighted systemic problems that must be addressed. More importantly, security lapses, misuse of visas, weak editorial oversight and much more. I look forward to authorizing this agency with the chairman and his authorization bill to correct these abuses. I remember President Reagan used Voice of America when I was entering college as a front-line Voices Against Soviet Oppression. It was a Voice of America, not the voice of anti-America. Recently I used the Voice of America, an open technology fund, to translate my report on the origins of COVID-19.

(11:11)
We disseminated it through mainland China, broke through the firewall. It went viral, got the attention of the CCP foreign minister who spoke out against me and the report. That's the kind of impact this agency needs to reach. With the events in Iran, we need America's voice in Iran right now. We need to ensure the Iranian people hear the truth, that we do not intend to harm them, but rather their oppressor and this theocratic regime of the Ayatollah. We need communications inside and outside of Iran. This week, General Vogel, the CenCom commander said the Voice of America is a critical tool for American security. You've outlined why there are many insecurities. I hope we can go back to that core mission, my dad's war combating the Nazis. So my question is, Ms. Lake, how are you working to fix the Voice of America so it is the Voice of America and not anti-America in Iran and use the open technology fund to achieve the mission, the core mission that Congress intended?

Ms. Kari Lake (12:35):

Thank you for that question, and thank you for laying out when it was a better agency. You're right, Ronald Reagan used it, a great broadcaster, one of the great communicators and he used it, but times have changed and it's still doing 1990 style television in a world where people are getting their information right here on their smartphones. It's in the back pocket. And so we need to update it and modernize it. But President Trump's executive order dated March 14th is called for this agency to be brought to its statutory minimum. And I'm glad that you mentioned Iran because one of the languages that is required in the statute is Farsi, and we are still broadcasting in Farsi. And chairman, ranking member, rather, Meeks said that we have not been and that we, in a panic, started to put news out in Farsi. That is actually not true.

(13:27)
We were in the process of effectuating President Trump's executive order and in the process of doing that, several malicious lawsuits were started up, and the judge froze us from being able to get news on. We literally were frozen in place because of all of these lawsuits. Once we were free to start putting news on, we immediately went to what the statutory minimum is, and one of the languages is Farsi going into Iran. And I'm very proud to say that when the bombings happened over the weekend on Saturday and when President Trump started to speak, we had a crew in on Saturday delivering President Trump's message to the people of Iran in Farsi. It was translated and it went out. Sometimes a lean and mean and a smaller staff makes it easier to get things done. And in one of the emails that I got from our Persian team, they actually said that. They were able to move quicker because it was smaller, the bloat had been diminished, and I'm really proud of the fact that we got that on. We're going to continue to operate at the statutory minimum.

(14:28)
We are putting out content in Pashto, Dari, Mandarin, Farsi and Spanish through Office of Cuba Broadcasting.

Rep. McCaul (14:37):

I thank you for that response. I think it's very important right now that the Iranian people hear the American story and the American message and I commend you for your efforts to reform, and I encourage you to get that message into Iran right now. Communication inside and out is so important for those people if they're going to rise up against the suppressive theocracy that we've endured since 1979. I yield back.

Chairman Mast (15:07):

Recognize ranking member Meeks.

Rep. Meeks (15:10):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Let me first enter into the record a letter that you and I received, Mr. Chairman, from four bipartisan members of the International Broadcasting Advisory Board, which Congress established and confirmed in 2023.

Chairman Mast (15:28):

Without objection.

Rep. Meeks (15:29):

Thank you. And Ms. Lake, you may recall the White House fired the board members earlier. Let me just first say this, because I do agree with Mr. McCaul on the need of making sure that the Voice of America in those places where our adversaries have false information going through, but you cannot do that simply by reducing and ending all individuals that work within that agency. So now these board members, for example, that were fired, despite their political and policy differences, those members wrote, and I quote, "Defunding," As you have done, "These networks," Because you can't do anything without money, but, "Defunding these networks at this critical moment will undermine the United States' efforts to counter the biased narratives from America's authoritarian competitors." It's crucial.

(16:39)
Some have said that it seems as though that our adversaries under this administration has been considered or treated like they're our allies, and our allies have been treated as if they're our adversaries. Now, I agree with the experts that put this letter in. There are grave risks right now for the United States national security posed by dismantling USAGM and the broadcasters it supports. Now one of the things I want to do, maybe we can do this and then try to save some time, I serve on the financial services committee also where we often engage with companies about the risk analysis that they perform before making major business decisions to outpace their competitors. And I know I hear my Republican colleagues often say that government should be run like a business, so I just want to try to just get a few yes or no questions in the time that we have just so that I know we can either get some of the information that the chairman said you are bringing or have brought with you.

(17:50)
So my question to you is, did you conduct or review a written analysis before placing most of the USAGM's and VOA's employees on administrative leave on March 15th, before cutting off payments to USAGM grantees in March or before announcing a reduction in force at the VOA last Friday? Yes or no?

Ms. Kari Lake (18:16):

I've been working in media for 30 years, and in every newsroom across this country in that time…

Rep. Meeks (18:21):

Yes or no, did you do…

Ms. Kari Lake (18:23):

These are complex questions. They're not yes or no questions.

Rep. Meeks (18:26):

It's either you did a review or you didn't.

Ms. Kari Lake (18:28):

We are right-sizing an agency that has grown and grown and grown.

Rep. Meeks (18:31):

Did you do a review?

Ms. Kari Lake (18:33):

We've reviewed… Yes, we've reviewed.

Rep. Meeks (18:35):

You've done a review. Do you have a record of what you reviewed?

Ms. Kari Lake (18:40):

We have reviewed the number of employees, the number of languages, but most of all what we reviewed was an executive order, March 14th, by the man who's in charge of the executive branch.

Rep. Meeks (18:52):

I want to know…

Ms. Kari Lake (18:52):

His name is Donald Trump.

Rep. Meeks (18:54):

Do you have a record that you can produce? The chairman said you have a bunch of things with you. Do you have a record of what you reviewed and who you reviewed to?

Ms. Kari Lake (19:03):

Yeah, we reviewed the statute.

Rep. Meeks (19:04):

Do you have a record? Yes or no?

Ms. Kari Lake (19:06):

We have the statute and we…

Rep. Meeks (19:07):

Do you have a record?

Ms. Kari Lake (19:08):

We reviewed the statute. Yeah, we can pull that statute for you.

Rep. Meeks (19:10):

If you have… Not the statute, the record of individuals that you reviewed, interviewed, or talked to before you committed your actions of dismantling…

Ms. Kari Lake (19:21):

I talked to a lot of people at the agency.

Rep. Meeks (19:23):

Do you have a record of that?

Ms. Kari Lake (19:25):

You could go back and look at emails.

Rep. Meeks (19:26):

Do you have a record?

Ms. Kari Lake (19:27):

Do you want me to pull emails?

Rep. Meeks (19:28):

I want you to show the record of what you did, Ms. Lake.

Ms. Kari Lake (19:32):

Well, you can take a look at it.

Rep. Meeks (19:33):

Don't just give me something that's not verified. Tell me, show me the record because that's what I hear oftentimes in the business, you have to have a record. Show me the record that you did. What you did, that's all.

Ms. Kari Lake (19:46):

It's pretty obvious what we did.

Rep. Meeks (19:50):

Did you survey… Let me ask this question then. Did you survey employees that was there about waste, fraud and abuse you believed was occurring at the agency? Did you survey since you said that?

Ms. Kari Lake (20:03):

We know that there's waste, fraud and abuse…

Rep. Meeks (20:04):

Did you survey the employees? Yes or no? Yes or no?

Ms. Kari Lake (20:09):

These are ridiculous questions.

Rep. Meeks (20:11):

Did you surv… Simple answers. You either did or you didn't.

Ms. Kari Lake (20:15):

I guess survey means talk to and ask…

Rep. Meeks (20:16):

Did do it or not?

Ms. Kari Lake (20:17):

Questions. Sure, we did.

Rep. Meeks (20:19):

You did? Then you can provide those surveys. You can show us a record of who you talked to.

Ms. Kari Lake (20:24):

We did not run an expensive survey, but I've talked to many people at the state.

Rep. Meeks (20:29):

So you didn't do that either, so this was based on a whim. Okay.

Chairman Mast (20:31):

Ranking member time has expired. I want to thank you for your five minutes of questioning. I'm now going to recognize Representative Smith…

Rep. Smith (20:39):

Thank you very much.

Chairman Mast (20:39):

For five minutes of questioning.

Rep. Smith (20:41):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to the committee, Ms. Lake. I chair the Congressional Executive Commission on China. We've had many, many hearings. We've worked on legislation. One of my bills that passed just a few weeks ago was to combat the heinous practice of forced organ harvesting where 50, 70,000 young people, average age 28, get their organs taken, they're Uyghurs, they're Falun Gong practitioners. It passed 4 0 6 to one second time it passed, passed last year as well. I've had four hearings on it. Xi Jinping is committing atrocities like almost no one else in the world, whether it be what he's done to Hong Kong, the pervasive use of torture, religious persecution everywhere you look, genocide against the Uyghurs. And then in your testimony, and I would ask you if you could maybe elaborate on this, you point out that the past leadership of VOA Mandarin Language Services conducted annual meetings with the Chinese embassy in Washington.

(21:40)
Well, I go to the Chinese embassy myself, outside picketing. I've invited Chinese leaders here from the embassy and from the government many times to testify, every time they turn us down. But if you could elaborate on those meetings, whatever you could tell us. You also pointed out that VOA's Mandarin language service personalities have hosted events at the Chinese embassy, and one of VOA's television editor has even publicly pledged his allegiance to the PRC at a Chinese embassy event. And finally you said VOA allowed the communist Vietnamese and Chinese embassies in D.C to pressure them into removing videos, cutting short live interviews or changing story angles so that coverage was more supportive of the Chinese governments of Hanoi and Beijing. If you could elaborate on that, I'd deeply appreciate it.

Ms. Kari Lake (22:29):

I'd be happy to. And I just actually read an article that was very interesting, it's called Chinese Influence at Voice of America. And I mentioned that there's a firewall, an editorial firewall that members of the management at USAGM and Voice of America cannot tell the reporters what to report. They can't talk about what should be in the newscast. And so if a reporter decides to go rogue and do pro-CCP coverage, I can't do anything about it. That's not how a newsroom should be run. I've worked in newsrooms my whole life. There's always some editorial control that management has so that you're making sure that what goes out of the airway is accurate. And frankly, in an agency such as this, it should be telling America's story. That's our charter, telling America's story, being authoritative, not telling China's story. But I want to talk to you a little bit about what you just mentioned. If I may read this because it was really shocking when I read this. And sorry, I got to put my reading glasses on for this one, guys.

(23:31)
"Starting in the first decade of the two thousands, the Chinese Embassy in Washington D.C and the leadership of VOA's Mandarin service began an annual meeting to allow embassy officials to voice their opinions about VOA's content." So management at USAGM has no say in what content it goes on, but the folks over at the CCP and the Chinese Embassy do have say about what goes on our air. "CCP embassy officials have also reached out to VOA hosts to convince them to be more supportive of the regime. VOA personalities have hosted events at the Embassy. VOA TV editor, one of them publicly pledged his allegiance to China at a Chinese Embassy event." This is absurd. This is insane. And the American taxpayers are footing the bill for this. They also ran a two-minute CCP propaganda. They produced it at VOA, and the management agreed that it was CCP propaganda. Frankly, two seconds of CCP propaganda is too much. The American people are footing the bill. And so things have to change there.

(24:38)
We need to make sure that firewall is gone. We should be able to have control over what kind of content goes out. It should be in alignment with our foreign policy. And unfortunately, the only people that seem to have any influence are our adversaries on what is going out on VOA's airwaves. It's outrageous and it has to stop. And thankfully, President Trump issued that executive order to bring this agency down to its statutory minimum, and he has called for this agency to be eliminated starting in the fiscal year 2026.

Rep. Smith (25:11):

Well, thank you for your testimony. Thank you for highlighting that important complicity with the brutality of the Chinese Communist Party. I'm barred from going to China. I used to lead human rights missions there frequently. The Global Times put me on their so-called hit list and I can tell you, I can't go to China and yet we had people collaborating with their top leadership here in DC and elsewhere, and that is outrageous. We need to reform this and I agree with…

Ms. Kari Lake (25:38):

You can judge a man by his enemies, and you've got good enemies.

Rep. Smith (25:40):

Of course. Thank you very much. Yield back.

Chairman Mast (25:43):

Representative yields back. Representative Keating is now recognized.

Rep. Keating (25:46):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here. I think if we look at exhibit A in terms of the value of global media, we look no further than Iran. The Trump administration took great attention towards the bombing that occurred. But to really be successful, what's going to be necessary is not just strong diplomacy, but changing the views of the people that live there, and Secretary Rubio and his nominee in his Senate confirmation stressed that there's probably no greater discrepancy between the actions of one government and their people than Iran. And even before this action, before the war, 6.6 million Iranians, 10% of the adult population, got their news from Farda, radio-free network that's there, and it's produced in an agency that you sought to terminate the contracts of at a time when it's needed more than ever. Cutting transmission feeds from the Middle East Broadcasting network, it's resulted in 90%, those actions of yours, 90% of the staff being cut. Some of the people on Radio Liberty are furloughed. Programming's been reduced at a time when we need it the most.

(27:18)
I'm concerned also not just with the cuts, but I'm concerned for the journalists that report this news. They're in great jeopardy. A lot of attention, in your opening remarks, went to vetting and the extreme efforts that you're doing for vetting. I want to know what you're doing to protect those journalists. One just recently released the other day after four years of detainment by the Russians, talked about the way he was tortured and physically abused and psychologically abused. These are journalists that are there. These are people trying to bring the word of democracy to people that have not. What are you doing to support these journalists? What attention? I didn't notice it in your opening remarks. That should be first and foremost. What are you doing to protect these people?

Ms. Kari Lake (28:11):

I agree. I think the safety and security of journalists is very important. I was a journalist in my past profession, and so it's incredibly important, and I don't think that they've done enough to protect them. I'm thankful that recently, in the last few days, one journalist who is being held was released thanks to President Trump, and I think you need to ask RFE, Radio Free Europe, what they're doing to protect their employees. I just got to the agency three months ago and… The question is…

Rep. Keating (28:37):

I would like to know…

Ms. Kari Lake (28:38):

Why aren't we hiring more Americans?

Rep. Keating (28:42):

I'm reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman. It's sort of like blaming the group that's advocating for these people. What are they doing? I'll tell you what they're doing, they've simply ask for a meeting with you.

Ms. Kari Lake (28:56):

It's hard to meet with somebody when they're suing you.

Rep. Keating (28:58):

Let's discuss this issue. I have a letter that I'd like to ask [inaudible 00:29:00] to be put in the record from the president of Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, the president of Radio Free Asia, the president of Middle East Broadcasting Networks dated April 30th simply asking for some kind of communications or meeting with you regarding these issues of detainment. I'd also like to put into the record an article. This audience in Iran and the Middle East surge as funding for Farda and Allura of Mideast Israel is in jeopardy. If you look at what's happening and you look what happened since the bombing occurred and since the war occurred, you just see dramatic increases in the listenership, just proving how vital this is to people that aren't getting other messages. Radio Farda traffic surged 344%. The Instagram account, 62.5 million increases, a rise of 77%. These are things that are necessary and you are cutting the agreements.

(30:08)
Thank goodness the courts are saying no to you. But why would you ever want to do this here? Why would you not… You better say, I want to know what Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty is doing to protect the journalists when the U.S and you have a role in doing it, and you won't even take a meeting from the people that want to meet and discuss the dangers to these journalists. I hope that you'll take that meeting and we get a confirmation for you by the end of this hearing that you'll meet them soon and discuss this issue. People's lives are in danger trying to tell the truth. I yield back.

Ms. Kari Lake (30:45):

If they would drop their malicious lawsuit, I'd be happy to meet with them, but it would be really stupid to meet with someone who's suing you. And this is a gentleman who makes about 310, $320,000 off the backs of hardworking Americans and is suing our agency. We've given him all…

Rep. Keating (31:02):

Official who's making money off the backs of American when we have a commander in chief making the money he's making. So I don't…

Ms. Kari Lake (31:07):

President Donald Trump donates his salary back.

Chairman Mast (31:12):

Gentleman yields back. The gentleman's time has expired. This is submitted for the record. I was glancing through it and just FYI, I'm going to keep reading it, but I don't actually see a request for a meeting with Ms. Lake in the letter as was referenced. I see bring to her attention, but no request for a meeting in this letter, but I'll let you know if that changes as I read through it. Representative Perry is now recognized.

Rep. McCaul (31:32):

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Lake, would you care to answer the question further, the last question further? Do you want to expound on any of that?

Ms. Kari Lake (31:38):

Well, I think it is difficult to meet with people when they're suing you. It just isn't advised. And if any attorney would tell you, you can't sit down and meet with somebody who's launched a malicious lawsuits against the agency naming me in those lawsuits, so it'd be ill-advised to do that obviously. We do not have a current grant agreement with

Ms. Kari Lake (32:00):

… RFE, Radio Free Europe, which was started many, many years ago as a CIA operation, and we don't have a current grant agreement with them. We've been asking to work with them, negotiating a grant agreement and they refused. We offered a grant to them and they refused to even mark it up and redline it and send it back to us, so we don't have an approved financial plan. They won't tell us where they're spending their money. We've got an audit going on right now, and they've stonewalled and prevented us from getting any access to their financial books. Again, we pay them, and they do not tell us where the money is going. I think that's a problem. I think the American people deserve to know where their money is going, and so we're working to make sure we get that.

(32:43)
Interestingly, in the 11th hour last night, right before I crawled into bed, we found out that they're finally going to give a little bit of information to our auditors, and I thought it was really interesting timing, because they didn't want me to sit up here and say they refuse to let us look at their books. They refuse to let us see where the American taxpayer dollars are going once it's getting funneled into RFE/RL. We've paid them every month by the way, so if they're not protecting their journalists, it's on them. If they're not putting out broadcasting, it's on them. We have paid them every month, because the judge has ordered us to, and so it's on them if they're not putting out broadcasting.

Speaker 1 (33:23):

Ms. Lake, this is clearly an agency that has run amok. I wouldn't characterize it as treason, but it sounds like it's certainly seditious. Are you familiar with the McGuireWoods report?

Ms. Kari Lake (33:34):

I'm very familiar, and it's in one of these binders. It was an incredible report looking at some of the mismanagement, misuse of funds, and other outrageous things that were happening at this agency.

Speaker 1 (33:46):

To that end, I just want to inform you that I struggled mightily probably for about six months in this Committee and in Congress to have that entered into the Congressional Record, so that the American people could see the misuses of their money in the seditious activity by an agency they were paying for. I think, as part of that, 40% of the workforce at that time was improperly vetted and USAGM lost their ability to conduct security clearances, but continued to conduct them for 10 years after which they had lost their ability to conduct security clearances, and that the use of J-1 visas to hire foreign journalists and technical staff without systematic review resulted in propaganda that was favorable to adversaries and enemies as opposed to the United States of America, with American tax dollars. Paid for with American tax dollars.

(34:42)
Now, somebody might say, "Well, that was a mistake," and yeah, that was a misstep, but it seems to me this was an orchestrated plan by someone at USAGM. And so my question begins with, have we determined from the McGuireWoods report or any of your investigation at this point who, by name, authorized this activity over that long period of time? And these people antithetical to the United States of America, who did that and what accountability has been put in place? What prosecutions have happened as a result of that? What accountability has taken place, if any?

Ms. Kari Lake (35:20):

Sadly, there hasn't been any accountability. That McGuireWoods report was done in the waning days of President Trump's first term. Michael Pack was the CEO and he helped make that possible. The first day on the job, it got dropped on his desk this issue with 1,500 employees had not been properly screened. He said this is a real big problem. ODNI was saying, "You got a serious problem over there. You guys are freelancing on your security screenings and you're allowing dangerous people into our country." And so they got busy investigating how this was happening. They put people on administrative leave, and before they could do anything and fire people, people had left that were being investigated. When the Trump administration ended and Biden went into office and replaced the leadership at this agency, they rehired all of those people back-

Speaker 1 (36:17):

Let me-

Ms. Kari Lake (36:17):

… and gave them settlements of $650,000.

Speaker 1 (36:19):

I don't mean to cut you off, Ms. Lake, but I've got a limited amount of time. Of course, this is completely outrageous, but why should anybody in this country, anybody in this committee, anybody in Congress believe that this agency, this operation, should continue to exist and won't return to its former operations and activities beyond the Trump administration, and beyond your tenure. Why should anyone believe that?

Ms. Kari Lake (36:42):

They shouldn't believe it, and I think this is why President Trump wants to eliminate the agency. The agency itself is not needed. It's proven that it does not know how to manage and does not know how to be respectful of this country and the American taxpayer's dollars. And so I think President Trump is absolutely right in eliminating this agency. We can roll in things that are valuable, that are worthwhile, bring it under the Department of State, where it once was by the way. Voice of America, back when it was effective, back when … Many of you talk about the glory days of Voice of America. It was under the Department of State, where there were guardrails on what the story of America was being told. It wasn't anti-American. It was in line with our foreign policy, and I think that's where it probably should end up.

Speaker 1 (37:24):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield.

Chairman Mast (37:26):

Gentleman yields, and your time expired. Chair now recognizes Representative Bera.

Speaker 2 (37:30):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to enter into the record a letter dated yesterday from the president of The NewsGuild just asking this committee to take a look and make sure the funds that are supposed to be restored, actually get restored to the [inaudible 00:37:48]. Thank you.

(37:52)
Here's what bothers me about this. Reforms are fine and so forth, but I agree with my good friend from Texas, the Chairman Emeritus Mr. McCaul, about the importance of having tools like the Open Technology Fund that can translate, use the internet, use Instagram, et cetera, to get out there and get our message to places like China, et cetera. I agree with Chairman Smith. We've got to speak to the Chinese people about what's happening to the Uyghur population. We've got to have those tools. Eliminating those tools wholesale make us weaker as a country. That is a problem. In fact, our Secretary of State penned an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal back in 2018 talking about how important what Radio Free Asia does is in exposing China's campaign against its Muslim minorities, the Uyghurs. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter that op-ed into the record if I might.

(38:51)
Here's the challenge. The ranking member raised, I think, what is a very important issue. We can debate whether this, say, an independent agency come back into the State Department or not. But the wholesale way of dismantling this agency, I think the Chairman asked a legitimate question. What was the strategy? Was there a methodical approach to looking at the agency? What was effective? What was not effective? What should we be doing? What should we not be doing? Ms. Lake, can you provide that methodical approach in terms of how the administration, how you looked at what essentially is the dismantling of this agency?

Ms. Kari Lake (39:35):

Yeah. We actually got to work after the 14th of March, and we put people on administrative leave and assessed what the statutory minimum was.

Speaker 2 (39:43):

Can you provide us documentation of that, so we can do our job as oversight-

Ms. Kari Lake (39:45):

Yeah. In meetings and in discussions, we talked about what is-

Speaker 2 (39:49):

Yeah, the minutes of those meetings and the documentation of that.

Ms. Kari Lake (39:53):

It would be emails and things of the such.

Speaker 2 (39:55):

That's all stuff that we can take a look at as a committee as we do oversight. Again-

Ms. Kari Lake (40:00):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (40:00):

… I'm not against modernizing the agency. I'm not against looking at things. The challenge Mr. Keating touched on. We're in the middle of what is a war in the Middle East. Hopefully, this ceasefire holds. Hopefully, the Iranian people rise up and demand a better future. I've reserved judgment on the President's actions. I do want the administration to come brief us on what they're thinking, how this is unfolding. But absolutely, right now we need all of our tools to communicate to the Iranian people. We need to do that through the radio, through the internet, through Instagram. I'm not a big TikTok fan; I supported the TikTok ban. But if folks are getting information on TikTok, we've got to be using that as well.

(40:44)
I am very concerned that the personnel have been laid off, that we're working with the shoestring staff. That is making us weaker and less effective at a moment of vulnerability for the Iranian regime, where this could be a time where the Iranian people choose to take a different path forward. What I would like to do and what I'd like a commitment to do, and I'd ask the Chairman for this, is, there was a time on this committee where we actually did do reforms. When I was a freshman member of Congress, under Chairman Ed Royce, at that time Ranking Member Eliot Engel, we actually did do a bipartisan reform bill that I believe passed this committee unanimously and moved forward.

(41:26)
That's our job. Ms. Lake, you should be working with us. We should not be dismantling an agency that we've seen over history has been super effective, whether it was in World War II, combating the Nazis and the Cold War, going against the repressive Russian or Soviet Union and the Communist Party. What I think the administration's doing and how they've approached this is making us weaker, and it is not a systematic way of thinking about how you reform and modernize things. I'd love to see the records, the minutes, the emails, so we can actually do our job in oversight. I'd love for you to work, and Mr. Chairman, for us to work together in a bipartisan way to say, "Okay, in the 21st century we do need tools to combat the propaganda that our enemies are putting out there." We do need to hire the best folks. We do need to have all of that. Again, Ms. Lake, I'd love your commitment to work with this committee, work with Congress, to enact those reforms and share the information and what you're thinking.

Ms. Kari Lake (42:27):

Absolutely. It would be wonderful to work with you and to effectuate the President's executive order to reduce this agency down in size so that it's lean, mean and effective. And I think it is effective. We were able to get information out and translate it into Farsi as to what was happening. We were able to get President Trump's address translated live as it was happening. You don't need a massive staff. This is the only newsroom in the world that hasn't seen cutbacks because we don't need to have massive newsrooms. 15,000 people-

Speaker 2 (43:00):

Right now, what I worry about, though, is we've let go of all this staff and it isn't happening, and it's only happening [inaudible 00:43:06].

Ms. Kari Lake (43:06):

We haven't let go of all the staff, actually.

Chairman Mast (43:08):

Gentleman's time has expired.

Ms. Kari Lake (43:10):

By the way, can I just mention something? I want to show you the newsroom, one of the newsrooms over at VOA. I don't know if you can see this. Empty. It is kind of a Where's Waldo. Can you spot the one person in there?

Chairman Mast (43:22):

Not from here.

Ms. Kari Lake (43:23):

One person in the newsroom. And I know you're probably saying, "Yeah, thanks a lot, Kari." No. This was actually back during the Biden administration. I didn't hear any complaints coming from anybody when nobody was showing up for work at VOA. When one person was showing up in the middle of the week, one person showed up, and nobody on this committee, no Democrat said, "Why is there only one person in that newsroom? We need to get more people in the newsroom to get the story out." Nobody was showing up for work. Now that we are actually right-sizing an agency that has been bloated out of control and has never been right-sized, even though newsrooms all across this country-

Speaker 6 (44:00):

Mr. Chairman?

Chairman Mast (44:01):

Now I'm going to recognize myself for five minutes of questioning.

Speaker 3 (44:04):

Mr. Chairman, you may [inaudible 00:44:06] consent just for clarification. Was that in the middle of COVID by the way?

Ms. Kari Lake (44:09):

This was last November. So I think COVID was over.

Chairman Mast (44:13):

Good question.

Speaker 3 (44:14):

But the elections were … Maybe it had something to do with the elections?

Ms. Kari Lake (44:17):

Well, I think you'd want to be in there if there was elections. This is the middle of the week in November. I've been in newsrooms. There's actually really full during an election. But I know this newsroom was ready to attack President Trump. They were doing ads for Joe Biden. They were literally running Joe Biden ads-

Speaker 6 (44:36):

Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, whose time is this?

Ms. Kari Lake (44:37):

… and attacking President Trump.

Speaker 6 (44:39):

Whose time is this?

Chairman Mast (44:40):

Well, Mr. Keating just wanted a moment to ask a question, so I think she's responding to that.

Speaker 6 (44:44):

I think it's cutting into your time, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Mast (44:46):

You're welcome for giving more time to your side. Appreciate more questions like that.

Speaker 7 (44:49):

Mr. Chairman, like the gentleman, I have a clarification question.

Chairman Mast (44:54):

Please.

Speaker 7 (44:54):

If it was the middle of November, then to the gentleman's point, it was after President Trump had won and those people were out, because they were in mourning because they were so partisan that they wanted to not be there. I think he made a very good point, and I thank the gentleman. We digress.

Ms. Kari Lake (45:13):

Can I actually just respond to that really quickly?

Chairman Mast (45:16):

I am actually going to recognize myself for five minutes now, as much as it's been a fun exercise with everybody. I would make the point that Radio Free is not free. I was just thinking about this in my office the other day and I was like, "What's the most common media in America on the radio?" I think it's iHeartRadio, iHeartMedia. The entire budget for iHeartMedia across the breadth of the United States of America and the globe is $90 million. That's the entire breadth. For Radio Free Europe, $150 million. Significantly more than all of iHeartMedia. For Radio Free Asia, $70 million. For Middle East Broadcasting, $103 million. You think of all of those individually and you compare that to iHeartMedia across America, and you look at the reach of that. I just think it's an interesting note as we point out the need to downsize the size and scope of what's going on in USAGM.

(46:08)
I did want to do my questions right now, because I wanted to touch a little bit on what Representative Perry had spoken about with that IG report, but I am very surprised that nobody touched off on this on either side of the aisle. It was just said by you, in your opening remarks, that there is a member of Congress targeted by somebody inside of USAGM. Does that mean you were tracking their IP address and they were e-mailing people or they were phone calling? How do you track that? What do you mean?

Ms. Kari Lake (46:37):

Well, you'd have to ask the Capitol Police. They're the ones, I believe, doing the investigation and it's an active investigation. But from my understanding, somebody was calling a beloved member of Congress, who's actively in Congress right now and-

Chairman Mast (46:52):

Republican or Democrat?

Ms. Kari Lake (46:53):

I'm going to let you guess. With the bias you've seen at this agency, just take a wild guess. Republican.

Chairman Mast (46:58):

Can you say the name of the individual that conducted this?

Ms. Kari Lake (47:01):

I think I would prefer to withhold that and maybe we can talk away from this, because I don't want to sabotage the investigation.

Chairman Mast (47:08):

Will you keep us updated on it as the investigation goes on?

Ms. Kari Lake (47:10):

I will as I learn more. What I've learned is that over the course of two years, I believe starting in roughly October of 2023, right up until January of '25, threatening phone calls were being made to a sitting member of Congress. Through the course of their investigation, they figured out where those calls were. I don't know how our investigators figured that out, but they have a ways, and they found out that the phone calls to the sitting member of Congress, threatening calls, were coming from inside of VOA.

Chairman Mast (47:41):

Thank you for sharing. We look forward, I'm sure all of us on both sides, to hearing more information about this. I want to get to the questions about the IG reports. It's something that I spoke about in my opening statements. Individuals hired on, improperly vetted, some of these agencies asking for their own SCIFs, their own secure places to view classified information, and not literally always being given security clearances, but given access to secret and top secret information. It's amazing to me to think that journalists were given what we might not give allied militaries. That, to me, is a very interesting thing to think about. But when you say we couldn't find 500 of these individuals, you mean somewhere in the government, you went to go look for who are these people that you consider suspect and now they pulled a Keyser Soze and we can't see them anywhere? What's going on?

Ms. Kari Lake (48:34):

Sadly, yes. About 1,500 people went through this shoddy vetting, which I think could have been intentionally shoddy, because they knew there were problems. This is no fingerprints, aliases in many cases.

Chairman Mast (48:48):

No FBI fingerprints or something like that?

Ms. Kari Lake (48:51):

Some of the times the FBI fingerprints were taken and not submitted. Sometimes they were not taken at all. And then they were given PIV cards, which is the access card you need to get into federal buildings and offices. It's actually a very secure way of keeping our offices and our departments and agencies.

Chairman Mast (49:10):

Somebody's hired by America. They have a direct deposit. They have, like you said, an ID card to get into a building. If they're global media, they might have a passport to travel on behalf of the United States of America. The fact that you're saying these individuals cannot be found is a staggering statement.

Ms. Kari Lake (49:26):

Not only can they not be found, and we've asked for help with other agencies to try to track them down, we even asked the DOGE guys. These are young guys who have a way of looking into things and they said, "I think we can find them." They tried and tried and tried.

Chairman Mast (49:42):

Did they use aliases? I mean, were these people using fake names?

Ms. Kari Lake (49:44):

A lot of people used … Yes.

Chairman Mast (49:45):

Okay.

Ms. Kari Lake (49:47):

When they come in.

Chairman Mast (49:48):

Did they have Social Security numbers or were they foreigners working on visas?

Ms. Kari Lake (49:51):

They're foreigners with no Social Security numbers, so they were given … Just a notional number was put in on these forms. They had forms that were not filled out. I mean, this is a massive security failure in a level that should keep you up at night.

Chairman Mast (50:06):

I want to ask you one more question.

Ms. Kari Lake (50:07):

And they could be working, by the way, at other agencies.

Chairman Mast (50:09):

I want to get to one more question before my time expired. Like you said, you were a big part of media in your prior roles. Did you ever have a TS or SCI clearance, or did you ever get to go into a SCIF as a member of the media?

Ms. Kari Lake (50:20):

No.

Chairman Mast (50:21):

Thank you. I now recognize Representative Cherfilus-McCormick.

Speaker 5 (50:25):

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ms. Lake, for being here. I do have major concerns about the role that VOA plays, especially since as recently as a few months ago, there were over 427 million people who were actually being exposed to VOA. VOA is usually one of the best places that we can provide fact-based and objective information to audiences, especially in China and Iran. Especially with the escalation that we're seeing in Iran, and with lack of any kind of intelligence briefing, we want to get more information as far as what's actually going on in Iran, and the information we're providing them. But what I wanted to bring to your attention is a letter that we have here that I wanted to admit for the record. It is from Radio Free Asia, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, Middle East Broadcasting Network. What they're pretty much saying is that they tried several times to reach you.

Chairman Mast (51:23):

Pass it on back.

Speaker 6 (51:25):

Thank you.

Chairman Mast (51:25):

I'm going to read it. The last one didn't have a request.

Ms. Kari Lake (51:25):

I think I've already expressed why I haven't met with them, because we're in active-

Speaker 5 (51:29):

I just want to read it to you first, because I want to give you the opportunity.

Ms. Kari Lake (51:31):

Okay.

Speaker 5 (51:31):

I do believe that foreign affairs, especially when it comes to national security, shouldn't be a partisan issue. I do believe that. I want to give you the opportunity to just explain, because as one of my colleagues mentioned, there was a letter in April where they said they haven't met with you. In this letter, they're saying that they've tried to meet with you and that "Ms. Lake has not spent a single minute with us or a senior team. She has not visited our office or inspected our operations."

(51:57)
And so with this letter that we have here that clearly says it, I also want to bring to your attention where it says, also, that they're still open to meeting with you. I know now you're saying you can't meet with them. But I want to get more clarification. Within the two weeks that you were in your position, that you declared that it was … You said, specifically, "There's largely incompetent, corrupt, bias, and a threat to America's national security." What were the procedures in place for you to make that determination? Specifically, how much staff was actually allocated to do that investigation to help you come to that conclusion?

Ms. Kari Lake (52:30):

Well, we've got reports. We've got years of biased reporting. We have misused funds.

Speaker 5 (52:36):

Could you tell me about the step or the mechanisms that you used? How much staff was provided to look into it, in those two weeks to get to that?

Ms. Kari Lake (52:42):

How much staff is what?

Speaker 5 (52:43):

How much staff? What was your mechanisms in actually going through, coming to this conclusion within two weeks?

Ms. Kari Lake (52:49):

Within two weeks, I assessed all of the grant agreements, and I realized that these grant agreements had been changed during the Biden administration to take out any form of transparency. During the first Trump administration, the grants were written, the grant agreements were written where we had transparency, we could see what was being spent.

Speaker 5 (53:08):

Well, was there-

Ms. Kari Lake (53:09):

And during the Biden administration, they took all of that transparency out and then they signed a quarter of a billion-dollar lease on a high-rise building, saddling the American people with paying for it, and it wasn't even equipped to do broadcasting.

Speaker 5 (53:22):

Well, I'm happy you mentioned transparency, because that's where I'm trying to get also. Now, when you spoke to them, or if you had anybody speak to them, was there a conversation for accountability and transparency? I think that's what we're trying to get to. What was the mechanisms in place to come to these conclusions. Before the lawsuit was filed and these letters were sent, was there anybody who went to them to ask questions and hold them accountable? Was that done?

Ms. Kari Lake (53:45):

It's really hard to have a open communication when you're being sued.

Speaker 5 (53:49):

Well, before that. Because we have letters back until April. This one was in June. So before any lawsuits were filed, were there any attempts to have that communication?

Ms. Kari Lake (53:58):

I believe when I first got there, they reached out to me. I had just gotten in the building and said we'd like to meet. And before I even had the chance to clear my schedule and meet with them, they launched into malicious lawsuits. So, no, we haven't met with them.

Speaker 5 (54:12):

If you can submit any communications that your office has had, I would greatly appreciate that. My second question is, I do believe in lean, mean machines that work well. What are your matrices that you have in place to determine that the leanness is actually being beneficial, and that this leanness is not creating a vacuum in which now we're not able to exercise our strongest power, which is our soft power, in our diplomacy?

Ms. Kari Lake (54:36):

Well, it's one thing if it's used properly, but it hasn't been used properly. We laid out that the CCP has more-

Speaker 5 (54:41):

I only have … I'm sorry.

Ms. Kari Lake (54:42):

… say in what editorial content we have.

Speaker 5 (54:46):

I only have 43 seconds. I only have 43 seconds. I want to know what those matrices are. What are the points that you're using to determine that this is actually benefiting, like, this machine is working, versus adversely hurting us and creating a vacuum in which any other group can come in and put out propaganda. We know there's a lot of propaganda, especially coming from the internet, so I want to make sure that we actually have a plan in place, there's funding in place, or that there are matrices in place to determine that this lean creation of a machine is actually working for us and not against us.

Ms. Kari Lake (55:16):

That's what our goal is. We want to make sure any information going out is not anti-American, is not pro CCP.

Speaker 5 (55:21):

If there is a matrices, could you please provide it to us so we could be on the same page?

Ms. Kari Lake (55:25):

I wish we did have some say over what information was going up, but unfortunately because of this firewall, this place could go totally rogue. This place could go and put 100 percent pro-CCP information. They could side with the regime in Iran, and we couldn't do a thing about it. They could run an attack piece on you-

Speaker 5 (55:42):

I understand. Thank you so much. And I just want to-

Ms. Kari Lake (55:42):

… and you couldn't do anything about it.

Speaker 7 (55:42):

The gentlelady's time has expired.

Speaker 5 (55:47):

If you can allocate me just one second so I can say this, because I think it's very important.

Speaker 7 (55:51):

The gentlelady had five minutes. Be brief.

Speaker 5 (55:52):

I thank you for being here. This is really the objective of us working together and coming together and negotiating how can we move forward. Right now, we're at a critical juncture where we see more and more hostilities, especially in these areas, and so we want the answers to these questions so we can work together.

Speaker 7 (56:09):

Thank you. The gentlelady's time has really expired.

Speaker 5 (56:12):

Thank you.

Speaker 7 (56:12):

The gentleman from Texas. Mr. Self.

Speaker 4 (56:18):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Based on the previous conversation on the security clearances, I want to go to Iran, back to Iran. In June of this year, you restarted broadcast to Iran after Israel attacked them. In the meantime, Musk has said that the beams are on with Starlink into Iran. Industry estimates that there are 20,000 terminals, and you have to have a terminal. Yet they're still testing cell phones operating in Iran through the black market channels. So I want to compare the two. Approximately how many Iranians currently watch the VOA Persian service?

Ms. Kari Lake (57:01):

Probably not that many, to be honest. The ratings aren't particularly good. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to sit down and watch VOA programming. It's painful to watch.

Speaker 4 (57:10):

The RFE and RL have claimed that they reach millions of Iranians. Obviously, given your response, how are we going to support broadcast into Iran then, is the bottom line. I'll jump over some of this because I think it's not going to be answerable. What format do you see going into the most constrained countries? How are we going to do that? Because technology is changing fast.

Ms. Kari Lake (57:48):

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (57:49):

We can call it Radio Free whatever, but how do you plan to get pro-American, the American story into the most denied countries? We'll start with Iran.

Ms. Kari Lake (58:01):

I think Starlink is a great option, and a lot of people have mentioned OTF and that that's the way to go. But to be honest, they're behind the times. They're looking at VPNs. And when a dictator turns off the internet, good luck. I mean, you've got to have a way to get information in. I think that Starlink is a great option. I would like to see Starlink moving a little bit faster into Iran, so we can get the word out. We have an opportunity right now to let the people of Iran know that we don't have a problem with the people of Iran. They're incredible people. They have been mistreated for many decades, and we want to make sure that they know that America is a friend.

Speaker 4 (58:41):

I think the high-tech, you need to be examining how you're going to get around the government.

Ms. Kari Lake (58:45):

That's right.

Speaker 4 (58:46):

How are you going to actually get the beam into the country, into the denied countries?

Ms. Kari Lake (58:51):

I will say, though, with our programming that we put out on Saturday, I think it was the most watched we've ever put into Farsi, and it was through modes of … People were actually seeing it. And they were watching. So they're very in tune to what's happening in America right now.

Speaker 4 (59:08):

They are, but the government will then respond and cut it off if possible-

Ms. Kari Lake (59:12):

That's right.

Speaker 4 (59:13):

… so you've got to stay one step ahead of them. This is the age-old how do you stay ahead of the enemy, the adversary.

Ms. Kari Lake (59:20):

Right.

Speaker 4 (59:22):

What obstacles do you see in today's climate in getting into the big four, Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran? What obstacles do you see and how do you plan to overcome them with this new organization that you are going to be developing?

Ms. Kari Lake (59:36):

Well, we would like to continue to put information that is accurate to the folks in those, and as I mentioned, we're reaching four languages actually, Pashto, Dari, Mandarin, Farsi, and in Cuba as well. And it's difficult. We're still using radio and Radio Marti in South Florida.

Speaker 4 (59:55):

Sure.

Ms. Kari Lake (59:55):

That seems to be working, but we're not reaching that many people with this, so I think we have to examine if it's worth the money that's going into this to be not reaching that many people. There's other ways to reach people than, like I said, 1990s-style television. I think that you can look at Twitter, you can look at social media. Do you think for one minute that … Some of the Democrats have said, "Oh, China's rushing in and they're filling the vacuum." They're not doing 1990s television. They're laughing. As a matter of fact, they're not only laughing at what we were doing, they were controlling what we were doing by having more of a say of what our content was than we did. They're seeding narratives on TikTok, on Twitter. If we really want to be effective in changing the narrative, it's narrative-seeding on social media. It's not 1990s-style TV with a bloated staff of many people who actually hate America.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):

That's exactly right. My whole point in this questioning is you're going to have to move fast to stay ahead of the technology.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:00:56):

Right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):

Because it is changing fast, and I just recommend you do a scrub on how you're going to stay ahead of it, because we've got to get American information into these countries. It is a great help. It helped under the Soviet Union and denied countries. We've got to do that. My time has expired. Thank you very much for your answers.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:01:18):

Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:01:18):

Thank you, gentleman. The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Stanton. You have five minutes.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:01:21):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Ms. Lake, your actions as senior advisor are eroding American soft power around the globe. We should not be dismantling the agency that combats propaganda from the Chinese Communist Party, the Kremlin, and Tehran. Especially now, we need to be able to broadcast facts that counter Iranian state-run media spin that is essential to America's long-term interest. Your job is to tell the people of the world the truth about America. Because of that, there's a more fundamental issue I want to address today, and that is character.

(01:01:56)
You see, Ms. Lake, we have both been public figures in Arizona for a long time. I've seen you in action, including your behavior in the last two elections. Let me be clear about something. The American people cannot believe a word you say. You ran for governor in Arizona in 2022. You lost fair and square. Instead of conceding, you embarrassed yourself and our state by lying, again and again for years, blaming everything under the sun for your loss except for your own toxic politics. You lie about that election to this very day. You lied about signatures on mail-in ballots not matching those on file. Proven wrong. You lied about ballots being intentionally misprinted and then rejected in Republican areas. Total BS. You lied and said hundreds of thousands of ballots were mishandled. Zero evidence. You claimed fake ballots were snuck into batches before they were counted. Come on. You repeated these lies again and again, and you've said even recently, quote, "I am the duly elected governor. They just stole it." Unquote. Give me a break.

(01:03:16)
Ms. Lake, your new role requires you to tell the truth. For decades, whenever authoritarians and dictators suppressed the people and claimed victory in fraudulent elections, Voice of America countered those lies. I can't imagine how people fighting for democracy today and around the world can trust someone who has so shamelessly lied about her own election. Ms. Lake-

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):

Will the gentleman yield to question?

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:03:41):

No, I will not. Ms. Lake, to regain a semblance of your credibility-

Speaker 6 (01:03:44):

Okay. Unless you know, the DOA wanted to not call on [inaudible 01:03:45].

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:03:45):

I will not yield. Ms. Lake, to regain a semblance of your credibility, I-

Speaker 6 (01:03:53):

If you're going to berate the witness, you [inaudible 01:03:53] evidence.

Speaker 7 (01:03:53):

It's the gentleman's time. If you did not yield, you-

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:03:54):

I did not yield, and I'd like the time back. Ms. Lake, to regain a semblance of your credibility,

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:04:00):

Are you finally ready to admit you lost the 2022 Arizona election?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:04:06):

It saddens me that you are from Arizona and you're okay with the-

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:04:10):

It's a yes or no question, Ms. Lake.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:04:13):

… Saddens me that you are from Arizona.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:04:13):

I guess the answer is no. Reclaiming my time.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:04:16):

The gentleman, the gentleman will suspend. We'll stop the clock. For all present, members are reminded to avoid engaging in personality toward the president and other members. Okay? And this is a member of the administration, so I would caution all to stay on the subjects and stay off of personalities.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:04:39):

Would love to.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:04:39):

Please. The gentleman may continue.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:04:41):

Yes, and in this case, these are adjudicated lies. Courts of law have determined that these are lies. These are not me saying it. You didn't just lie to the press.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:04:52):

The courts are really awesome right now.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:04:52):

The took those lies to court and lost again and again. Every one of your lawsuits failed, and a federal judge said that you were furthering false narratives that blamelessly undermine public trust. And you didn't just lie, you were formally sanctioned by the court. Ms. Lake, you have been sanctioned twice for providing false information to courts. Isn't that true, yes or no?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:05:14):

I was brave enough to fight our shoddy elections and the courts have not caught up with-

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:05:19):

That was a yes or no. I guess the answer is no. Let me reclaim my time. You have been sanctioned by both the United States-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:05:25):

… But I can tell…

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:05:26):

… District Court and the Arizona Supreme Court for " Making false factual statements to the court," and you were sued for defamation by a Republican election official, Stephen Richer. He and his family were subjected to harassment and even death threats because of those lies. You told your supporters, Richer and fellow Republican County Supervisor Bill Gates, that they "Sabotaged election day." You accused them of deliberately printing the wrong image on ballots to jam tabulators and injecting hundreds of thousands of phony ballots. What a joke.

(01:06:03)
And here's the thing, Ms. Lake. When it came down to it, you chickened out. You refused to defend those lies in court. You decided to take a default judgment. You are an adjudicated liar and a two-time political loser in Arizona.

Speaker 8 (01:06:21):

Chairman, I move to take down those [inaudible 01:06:22].

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:06:21):

I have one final question.

Speaker 8 (01:06:23):

Chairman.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:06:23):

Reclaiming my time.

Speaker 8 (01:06:24):

I'd like to take down those [inaudible 01:06:26].

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:06:28):

I do not yield. I have one final question for you, Ms Lake.

Speaker 8 (01:06:30):

Call someone a liar, that's not how you treat other people that are being questioned.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:06:31):

Let me one final question.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:06:32):

The gentlelady will suspend, please. Go ahead. You may continue.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:06:35):

You lost for governor in 2022 to Katie Hobbs. You lost even worse to Ruben Gallego for senate in 2024. Well, Arizona has another election for governor next year. Will you do us all a favor and run it back and run for governor again? I yield.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:06:52):

[inaudible 01:06:55]

Ms. Kari Lake (01:06:55):

Can I respond to some of that?

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:06:55):

You may respond.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:06:55):

Because that was complete insanity. I wish I could yield back the last five minutes of my life, actually. And I want to apologize to the people of Arizona that we have somebody who's representing the folks in one of our great parts of the valley that doesn't care about the integrity of our election. But you were here, you came in late and we were talking about USA JAM today, the agency for global media, and how they can put out absolute abject lies and we can't control any… We have no say over what the editorial content is and I would hope that you would not be okay with that. They could literally put out a lie about anybody here, and I know you've been the victim of that. I know you've been the victim. I remember the stories about you where they said you had a gay lover and those were going on.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:07:45):

Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:07:46):

Chairman.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:07:47):

Can I…

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:07:47):

I hope you honor what you just gave as a caution to everyone and I moved those words.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:07:54):

To tell you that those kind of lies and you said those were lies, those kind of lies could be broadcast today on VOA and you couldn't pick up the phone, Representative Stanton, and call them and say, "Hey, you're putting out lies about me." You would not be able to do that because they would sue you for breaking the firewall. So, lies are being told on voice of America. It's inappropriate. You've been subjected to lies that you said were lies about you in the media before, and how would you like it if those lies were put on Voice of America right now? Because they could do it and you couldn't do a thing about it. You couldn't stop it. You couldn't stop all those lies that you said were said about you if they went on Voice of America today. You'd have to sit and take it.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:08:35):

Okay, I thank the gentlelady and I appreciate the dialogue. Ruling on the member, she was responding and I thought rather complimentary that, in fact, those were untrue and she was defending that.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:08:49):

That's what he says.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:08:49):

So, I'll leave it as that if, I think Mr. Stanton would agree that those were untrue statements and she said so. I will now recognize myself for five minutes.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:08:59):

Mr. Chairman, I apologize. I wasn't concerned at all what she was saying. My concern is that the leader of this agency, which is supposed to disseminate truth about the United States, is an adjudicated liar. That's not an exaggeration. That's not…

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:09:14):

Okay. The gentleman made that point quite clearly.

Mr. Greg Stanton (01:09:15):

It's a court of law that said that.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:09:18):

Recognizing myself for five minutes.

Mr. Costa (01:09:20):

Mr. Chairman. Unanimous consent. Twice so far, the chair prior to you had said there was no documentation for requests of meeting. So, unanimous consent that these be placed in the record. These are requests for meetings that have not been answered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:09:38):

Can I see the date on those? I mean, where those…

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:09:41):

Okay. We'll be able to make the record complete and you'll be allowed to give the other half of these emails. For the record, we agree for unanimous consent that these emails be entered and considered factual with the recognition that they be verified by the agency. I'll now recognize myself and I'll be brief in saying, if everyone on the dais had the accusations of their opponents or even, quite frankly sometimes the legal battles, all of us would have a bad day here. That is part of politics. But we're not here to discuss politics today. We're here to discuss the spending of hundreds of millions of dollars and a question of whether or not it was best spent on behalf of the American people. You said earlier that, in fact, there were 500 people unaccounted for who received payment in money at the taxpayers expenses. Is that correct?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:10:41):

They did while they were employed, and then they left the agency and we can't track them down.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:10:46):

Okay. And without speculating per se, but just factually, can you verify that those people, since there's no fingerprints, no pictures, can you verify that these people existed and those were true identities?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:11:01):

True identities, I don't know. We can't.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:11:04):

Can you verify that they came to work every day and performed duties?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:11:09):

I don't have that information.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:11:12):

So, it is certainly possible that this independent third-party agency that you gave money, that previously were giving money to in fact had ghost employees or employees, that the money ended up being conduited to other people. Is that possible?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:11:28):

It's possible.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:11:29):

And so, on behalf of this committee and the American people, an audit is appropriate, isn't it?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:11:35):

I definitely believe it is and we're in the process of doing an audit right now.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:11:39):

Okay. And if you fail to get the cooperation in the audit, please come back to the committee because I think you'll see that we're willing to take further steps to support that need for an audit.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:11:50):

We have been stonewalled in the audit. The grantees, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, Middle East Broadcasting, and I mentioned OTF, have not wanted to give us any information. Stonewalled, prevented it. We started this weeks ago, and as I said, just finally, last night, on the eve of this hearing, they finally said, "Okay, you can come in and start looking at our books."

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:12:12):

We get similar promises on our subpoenas and some of the committees here. Let me ask a differing question. This money to a third party agency over which you have arguably little control based on the history, do you give money to Al Jazeera?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:12:30):

No.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:12:30):

Do you give money to Pravda, which is Russian for the word truth?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:12:34):

No.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:12:35):

Okay. Why don't you?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:12:37):

Obviously because those are propaganda machines of, in many cases, our enemy.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:12:43):

Because they're adverse to the interest of the United States of America. So, by definition, whatever becomes the new, hopefully consolidated and concise and effective organization, in fact should do one thing which is promote the legitimate interest of the United States, including the truth as we see it.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:13:07):

Absolutely. That's what we should be doing. That's what we should be, have been doing and we haven't been doing it well, and I'm going to work really hard to make sure that whatever we salvage from this, it's telling America's story. We have an incredible story to tell, and especially right now as we're working for peace around the globe with a President like Donald Trump.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:13:26):

And speaking of peace around the globe, you're familiar with the controversy that Chairman Mast had with the agencies when he was subcommittee chairman, and all he really wanted was them to explain why they wouldn't say Hamas terrorist after the October 7th attack, and instead used words more "moderate to the base". Can you assure us that in the future that if the President of the United States, at that time Joe Biden, the Secretary of State, etc., have an aligned policy and statement which is supported by the Congress, that in fact the messaging would be the messaging of the American people through its representatives and not some independent third idea of what you should say to be moderate?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:14:17):

Well, Congressman, I wish I could assure you of that, but unfortunately with this editorial firewall, it's impossible for us to have any say over the content, which is terrible.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:14:27):

In closing, because this committee is going through a structural reform of all of the State Department and its agencies, which will include yours, is it fair to say that going forward, we should in fact have a single point of contact, responsible and responsive, accountable and auditable, and that in fact it should be one in which there is at least, to the oversight of Congress and the administration, verifiable that these people are employed and working to the interest for which they have been hired?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:15:02):

I'm afraid we're never going to find those 500 people. They've escaped into…

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:15:05):

No, I'm talking about going forward. Can we reauthorize, under the state department reauthorization, an organization that you can believe in, whether it's within the State Department or not, can we do so and do you see that as the goal for which President Donald Trump gave you the responsibility to do and you're working on?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:15:26):

Yes, and I believe it needs to be rolled into the State Department because President Trump has asked that we delete this agency. And so, whatever we can salvage that's worthwhile should be brought under the Department of State, under the public diplomacy arm of the Department of State.

Mr. Darrell Issa (01:15:41):

I look forward to, and this committee looks forward to working with you through the reauthorization process to find a win-win that some of the members on both sides have talked about today. With that, it's my pleasure to recognize my colleague, the gentleman from California, Mr. Costa.

Mr. Costa (01:15:55):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, we're in a discussion here where there's a lot of agreement to disagree. And I happen to think that the efforts that Voice of America and it's international broadcasting and its expansion post-World War II, along with the efforts to deal with Cuba broadcasting radio and TV, there's a whole list of, I think, successes over the post-World War efforts that we've been engaged in with the communist countries in which we have been able to tell the real story about America.

(01:16:39)
Now, if you want to make modifications, reforms, I think this committee's an appropriate place to do that oversight. Having said that, I'd like to specify a particular area that deals with Armenia and the Voice of Armenia. Do you happen to know, Ms. Lake, I come from the land of William Saroyan and I assume you know what language the Armenian, people of Armenia speak?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:17:09):

I've actually heard it. It's a beautiful language. I can't name it. Can you please tell me?

Mr. Costa (01:17:14):

Yeah, it's Armenia.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:17:16):

Trick question.

Mr. Costa (01:17:17):

The story of Armenian language and the Voice of Armenia was so that the people of Armenia would understand, who were under the oppression of the Soviet Union, what America stood for and what our values stood for. How many people work at the Voice of America under Armenian services, do you know?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:17:36):

Right now, it's not a statutorily required language, so we do not have, we will not be having employees in that.

Mr. Costa (01:17:45):

Let me tell you, because you had all these cuts that I don't think are surgical. They've been done with I think some sort of disregard for… You have five people, you had five people, one full-time staffer and four contractors. They've all been placed on leave since March of this year. Did you or former fellow, the Elon Musk, talk to anyone about the Voice of America's Armenian service before these cuts were made?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:18:15):

We are bringing the agency to statutory minimum and Armenian language is not in the statutory minimum. If you'd like it to be, then I suggest you write legislation and put it in legislation.

Mr. Costa (01:18:26):

Well, what analysis was done to assess the performance of the services before the cuts were made?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:18:32):

We decided to listen to the person who's in charge of the executive branch of the government, and that person's name is President Donald J. Trump.

Mr. Costa (01:18:40):

Well, I suspect that maybe the president's not sure about the language that the Armenian people speak. But that be as it may, the Voice of America's own data showed that the Armenian language reached well over one-third of Armenia's adult population and ranked second in network-wide market penetration. The Voice of America brief notes said that the service unique [inaudible 01:19:04] encountering the Russian disinformation and explaining US policy to Armenians at the moment when Yerevan is trying to move out of Moscow's orbit. There are a lot of reasons why I think this is important, because of the Russian disinformation. Do you believe that Russia has been engaged in disinformation with Armenia or other countries on Eastern Europe?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:19:28):

Obviously, you have a soft spot in your heart for Armenia. I think the people of Armenia are incredible. But we're working to right-size this agency and the Armenian language is not one of these statutory required.

Mr. Costa (01:19:42):

I know, but there's got to be a cause and a reason for your changes here, and I'm trying to find out what they are.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:19:46):

How many people do you think we should hire in the Armenian language service?

Mr. Costa (01:19:50):

Well, what I think we should do is recognize the fact that Russia is attempting, through misinformation, to keep Armenia in their orbit. Do you believe that Russia is the aggressor in the war in Ukraine?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:20:07):

You know what? It's interesting that you really are concerned about Russia because VOA hired Russian spies, and I think that, I didn't hear any complaints coming from you that I recall.

Mr. Costa (01:20:19):

I asked you a question. Do you believe Russia is an adversary of the United States?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:20:23):

I think they are one of our adversaries, yes.

Mr. Costa (01:20:26):

Okay. And why would we undercut our strategy-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:20:29):

But what I love about this President is he's trying to bring the world together,

Mr. Costa (01:20:30):

… and interest by dismissing staff who are countering Russian propaganda to potential partners of the United States? The reason is, I mean the focus today is on Iran. Okay? Tomorrow it could be Armenia.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:20:43):

I thought it was on Armenia.

Mr. Costa (01:20:44):

Tomorrow it could be Armenia. And I think that when you put the Voice of America's Persian service on leave, only to call them back after when Israel and we started trading missile strikes, I mean, isn't that a tacit admission that there were need for people to be on duty to provide that information, the Voice of Iran?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:21:07):

I've worked in newsrooms. You surge on stories when you need to surge. We have always had the Farsi language as one of our statutory languages and we've been covering it.

Mr. Costa (01:21:17):

Well, my time's expired, Ms. Lake. But I-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:21:20):

And when a story breaks, you bring more people on.

Mr. Costa (01:21:20):

… I think that you've got to look more carefully at how you reorganize this effort, and more to be determined. Okay? Thank you.

Rep. Huizenga (01:21:28):

Gentleman's time has expired. With that, Ms. Lake, I will be recognizing myself. I recently held a subcommittee hearing on the state department's censorship industrial complex, which was previously in the business of silencing American voices overseas and at home. Thanks to a thorough investigation review by Congress and the Foreign Affairs Committee previously and President Trump's leadership, that bureau is no more. Building off of that work here today, you've spoken extensively about the importance of telling America's story and standing up to censorship. In your view, what should be the mission of the US Agency for global media going forward? Moreover, how can we ensure its position to effectively promote American values and counter propaganda from authoritarian regimes like the Chinese Communist Party?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:22:22):

Well, we definitely need to bring some huge changes to this agency. I believe that the agency should be eliminated, and then we should pull out the things that are of value. And VOA, Office of Cuba Broadcasting. We need to look at what works, and what works is telling America's story abroad. What doesn't work is being anti-American, telling the CCP propaganda abroad on our airwaves, and we need to modernize. I don't think doing 1990s television is effective anymore. People just aren't, that's not where they're getting their information.

Rep. Huizenga (01:22:56):

What do you think some of the most important stories and tenets about America that need to be told that haven't been getting told?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:23:02):

I think just the history of this country and what this country is about. Our freedoms, our liberties, our Bill of Rights.

Rep. Huizenga (01:23:10):

Maybe the founding of our country?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:23:11):

The founding of our country, yeah. And especially this year with 250 years.

Rep. Huizenga (01:23:16):

That would seem to me a pretty big story to tell. I mean, that seems like a [inaudible 01:23:20].

Ms. Kari Lake (01:23:20):

One of the things that's…

Rep. Huizenga (01:23:21):

It's something that the rest of the world's going to pay attention to.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:23:24):

And one of the things that's statutorily required is to talk about all 50 states, including the beautiful parts of our country, all 50 states and tourism. Those are things that are actually in the statute.

Rep. Huizenga (01:23:33):

By that, I'm sure you mean Michigan.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:23:35):

Michigan's beautiful, one of my favorite states. I'm a Midwesterner, I was born there. I was born in the Midwest. So, we haven't been doing that and we're trying to do what's statutorily required. Unfortunately, we've gotten into the habit of telling, of hiring foreigners to tell America's story. And if you were born in another country, you don't know our history, you don't know our culture. In many cases, you don't know our language. How do you effectively tell America's story?

Rep. Huizenga (01:24:00):

That's the right question to be asking, and now we're looking for that solution of how to do that. I think there's growing consensus that America needs to do more to push back against authoritarian propaganda and censorship around the world, particularly from Communist China, but other places as well. I have an example, a specific example from Southwest Michigan. I happen to represent a significant Burmese population in my district, many of whom with family and friends still subjected to the authoritarian military junta's role in Burma and their rule there.

(01:24:38)
Many of these people have relied on Voice of America Burmese service to expose the malign activities of the CCP in its manipulation of the Burmese military junta, and oftentimes drive a more profound skepticism of Beijing's intentions. We were just having a dialogue with my colleague about the statutory languages and that kind of thing. Would it make sense to have flexibility to say, "Okay, let's surge in an area." You were talking about in the newsroom, surges to where the information is. Wouldn't it make sense to have some flexibility to say, "Okay, you know what? Burma is a place that we need to be paying attention to," and move some of some of those assets around?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:25:23):

Absolutely.

Rep. Huizenga (01:25:24):

But I'm curious, what role do you see organizations like USAGM, and you were just talking about possibly eliminating them, playing in the global information fight? What reforms do you prioritize to ensure that we're winning the battle? That's the most important thing.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:25:39):

Well, for starters, I'm going to prioritize making sure that we're getting out information that is not anti-American. That would be very disastrous, and we've done that in the past and we don't want to do that anymore. And I'm going to work to make sure that's not happening. But you're right, we need to surge. There's no expiration date on anything in the government. If we are working to see to it that people of an oppressed nation are getting information, to know there are options out there, to know that there's a better way. And then, when that nation is no longer being oppressed, we continue to operate there. It just doesn't make sense.

(01:26:12)
But what they've done over the years, 84 years, is expand, expand, expand, collecting more languages, covering more languages that we don't necessarily have to be covering. One of our success stories is Office of Cuba Broadcasting, broadcasting directly into Cuba and getting into the ears and the hearts of the people of Cuba. But there will come a day where I believe there will be freedom for the people of Cuba. And then, do we need to still continue to broadcast in? That's a question that needs to be asked. So, we should have expiration dates. When it's mission accomplished, it doesn't mean we continue to pour tens of millions dollars more into it.

Rep. Huizenga (01:26:46):

I appreciate that. My time has expired. With that, the chair recognizes Ms. Jayapal from Washington for five minutes.

Rep. Jayapal (01:26:55):

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, Ms. Lake. The US Agency for Global Media is tasked with providing unbiased news worldwide to over 427 million listeners, many of whom live in countries without freedom of press or freedom of the speech. And it is your job to promote the American ideals of freedom and democracy. So, I wanted to start, just by confirming, do you support democracy or authoritarianism?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:23):

I think that's pretty obvious. I support freedom and democracy.

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:26):

Democracy. Great. Would you agree that accepting the results of a fair and free election are critical to a functioning democracy?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:35):

Would you agree that standing up and cheering-

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:37):

That's not… My question is-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:38):

… for a cancer survivor would've been a nice thing to do?

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:40):

… would you accept, Ms. Lake, this is my time.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:42):

Okay.

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:42):

Would you accept that accepting results of a free and fair election are critical to a functioning democracy? It's a yes or no question. Do you think it's essential for democracy to have a free and fair election?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:54):

Yes. We need free and fair elections.

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:55):

Free and fair elections. Great.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:27:56):

And sadly, we don't have them.

Rep. Jayapal (01:27:57):

Thank you so much. And yet, you have, to this day, refused to acknowledge that President Trump lost the 2020 election. Something that even members of President Trump's own justice department have admitted and multiple lawsuits have shown, and we heard my colleague from Arizona talk about what happened in Arizona. So, it concerns me that you are now tasked with this responsibility of ensuring democracy around the world when you won't even accept a free and fair election.

(01:28:28)
I'm also concerned by your ability to promote the American ideals of freedom and democracy given your record defending and praising dictators. Let's look at Hungary. You previously stated that Hungary is, "Doing it right." And that Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán was, "The Greatest in America." Greatest in caps, and, "And equal to President Trump." Do you stand by those statements?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:28:56):

I think that Viktor Orbán has done a very good job at protecting his people and protecting the Hungarian culture.

Rep. Jayapal (01:29:03):

And so, Ms. Lake…

Ms. Kari Lake (01:29:04):

I think if you ask people in Europe, other parts of Europe-

Rep. Jayapal (01:29:06):

The question here is very simple.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:29:10):

… they would be wishing that their leaders stood up for their people.

Rep. Jayapal (01:29:11):

Is Victor Orbán the greatest in Europe? Yes or no?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:29:13):

I think he's done the best job in Europe. Yes.

Rep. Jayapal (01:29:15):

Okay. And so, even Secretary Rubio acknowledged in a 2019 letter that under Orbán, Hungary took a downward democratic trajectory. And yet, you insist that Hungary is doing it right. I want to cover some of the policies that Mr. Orbán is responsible for. Would you consider banning LGBTQ pride parades like Viktor Orbán has done in Hungary is doing it right? Recognizing that pride parades are protected under the First Amendment?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:29:44):

What does this have to do with the US Agency for Global?

Rep. Jayapal (01:29:46):

I'm asking whether you support the policies of dictators and authoritarians or whether you support democracy? You have said that Viktor Orbán is the greatest in Europe. So, do you think that Viktor Orbán is doing it right when he bans pride parades?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:00):

I think Viktor Orbán has put the people of his country first.

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:03):

So, the answer is yes-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:04):

I'm not here to discuss Viktor Orbán.

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:04):

… you think it's appropriate that he's banning pride parades and using facial recognition technology to actually profile people that go to those parades? How about the fact that Orbán and his party control 80% of Hungary's media market? Is that level…

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:21):

Are we here talking about Hungary?

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:22):

Yes, we are, because guess what? Your agency actually is responsible for other countries and unbiased use.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:30):

Hungary is an ally. Can I remind you that Hungary is an ally of America?

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:32):

Oh, and so you think that it's okay that Viktor Orbán, the Greatest in Europe, according to you, controls 80% of Hungary's media market. Is that level, free and fair reporting?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:45):

You obviously don't like our ally Hungary. I think that the people have voted for him-

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:48):

I'm asking you if you think that it's appropriate-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:30:50):

… and the people of Hungary will decide.

Rep. Jayapal (01:30:51):

… Ms. Lake, it is my time. I'm asking you if it is appropriate that a country, Victor Orbán's government controls 80% of Hungary's media market? It's just a yes or a no. Do you think that's okay? You think he's the greatest of all time?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:31:07):

I don't have an opinion on what Victor Orbán is doing in Hungary, okay?

Rep. Jayapal (01:31:09):

Okay. It's not up for debate.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:31:11):

Other than I know he puts people first.

Rep. Jayapal (01:31:12):

It's a fact that has been documented by numerous organizations.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:31:15):

By who? Can you tell me where that fact comes from?

Rep. Jayapal (01:31:18):

Now, not only have you supported… Excuse me, Ms. Lake. I'm sorry to remind you, you are not a governor. You're not even a candidate for governor. You're here and this is my time. Not only have you supported dictators that have supported policies that erode democracy, you also spread claims promoted by Russian state media that the Pentagon was funding bioweapon labs in Ukraine. These claims have been proven resoundingly false, even by Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Do you still stand by that prior statement, Ms. Lake?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:31:48):

Look, I know that many members of Congress care more about funding Ukraine.

Rep. Jayapal (01:31:50):

Do you stand by that statement, which is clearly a lie?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:31:54):

I know that you voted.

Rep. Jayapal (01:31:56):

You are responsible for an agency that is supposed to promote truth. And yet, over and over again, you are promoting dictators and authoritarians and lies. So, I'm asking you if you stand by the statement that you made that was promoted by Russian state media, that the Pentagon was funding bioweapon labs in Ukraine? Proven false by Marco Rubio. Do you stand by that standard?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:32:18):

I understand you're trying to get a fundraising video here.

Rep. Jayapal (01:32:21):

Okay, well you clearly don't understand that you are actually here [inaudible 01:32:27] district.

Chairman Mast (01:32:27):

Your time has expired.

Rep. Jayapal (01:32:27):

Before Congress. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say…

Chairman Mast (01:32:30):

You had more than enough time. I gave you a few extra seconds.

Rep. Jayapal (01:32:32):

I understand.

Chairman Mast (01:32:32):

And your time has expired.

Rep. Jayapal (01:32:33):

And unfortunately-

Chairman Mast (01:32:34):

And I now recognize Representative Davidson.

Rep. Jayapal (01:32:35):

… Ms. Lake is not responding to the questions.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:32:37):

Can I have one second to respond? Because… Who is going to be speaking next?

Chairman Mast (01:32:42):

Representative Davidson is next.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:32:44):

Oh, may I have just one second to respond to that? Obviously from some of the questions we're hearing from the Democrats, they care more about a lot of other countries than America, and we've seen that in their votes with the money they voted, just to spend in Ukraine killing people. Thankfully, we have a President and Donald J. Trump who's going to help bring peace.

Rep. Jayapal (01:33:02):

Maybe we could have regular order, Mr. Chairman?

Chairman Mast (01:33:04):

Seems pretty regular to me. Representative Davidson is recognized.

Rep. Davidson (01:33:08):

Thank you, Chairman. Thanks for having this hearing. Ms. Lake, I want to let you know that Voice of America is just such an important part of Ohio's history. In Westchester, Ohio, we have Voice of America Park and it recognizes the Voice of America Bethany Relay Station, which served as a key anchor to get the message that Voice of America was broadcasting, whether to Europe or South America, and Crosley Broadcasting's there. So, I'd invite you and your team to come to Westchester, Ohio at some point and tour the museum. Highlight the history of the Voice of America.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:33:42):

Of Ohio.

Rep. Davidson (01:33:43):

I think the values that Voice of America put into action, really, and made known America's values, are part of the story of victory in the Cold War. And in Munich earlier this year, Vice President Vance gave a speech expressing his fear that, in Europe, these freedoms are under attack. The things that we fought to protect Europe from, we now see, speaking of sanctions, I mean, we have people claiming asylum from the UK, from Germany, and from Poland, in Hungary today. So, they are protecting civil liberties for people that are being put in jail for memes in places like Germany and England. So, looking at widespread censorship online, you look at the values that seem under attack by the digital regulation in the European Union, Voice of America could still play an important role in the world. So, unfortunately, we've seen our institutions that help defend democracy being wielded in some ways to undermine it even within various administrations.

(01:34:59)
So, I think your reshaping of this institution is incredibly important. Unfortunately, revelations from Voice of America show the US is not immune from actions to shape speech. A new iron curtain is falling over the West under the guise of censorship. If you have unapproved views on migration, vaccines or election results or any number of things, your freedoms can be taken away because the woke religion has its own heresy code. People are seeking to use components of our own government to enforce their political ideology. So, Ms. Lake, can you expand further on the bias which has USAGM has operated over the years?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:35:45):

I would love to. I mean, actually I wish I didn't have to. I wish that I could report to you that there was no bias, but there's been a lot of bias and I've got just a few headlines here. This one says, "Voice of America Slants News, Delays Biden's Debate Stumble Story." Voice of America Election news went,

Ms. Kari Lake (01:36:00):

… from 1996 to 2020 went from balance to bias. Will Voice of America campaign video that they ran for Biden help him win Michigan? Why is Voice of America getting involved in politics? How about this one, Voice of America director Amanda Bennett resigned amid accusations of failing to stop China and Iran propaganda in VOA programs. And guess what? She was then hired back by Joe Biden to run the agency and nearly ran it into the ground. She's the one responsible for $250,000, 000, 15-year lease in a swanky high rise that they were going to put VOA in, had I not stopped it. And this high rise isn't even equipped to.

(01:36:39)
Do broadcasting. That was going to cost the American taxpayer another a $100 million dollars at least. When are we going to start putting the American people first?

Rep. Davidson (01:36:47):

Yes, thanks for highlighting that. America's resources should advance America's interests, and thanks for being a good custodian of that. Reading in background for this, I was stunned to find that Voice of America's former associate editor for news standards, Carol Guensburg, directed staff to, "Avoid calling Hamas and its members terrorists." Why do you think Voice of America was hesitant to call Hamas and its members terrorists?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:37:14):

Because as I've mentioned, there's a true bias going on, they're pushing an agenda, and they in many cases are opposed to whatever the policy of America is, and they have completely gone off the rails, and we need to get them back on the rails. And that's what we're doing, we're reducing the size of this. And in many ways, maybe the people reporting were actually okay with a terrorist attack like that.

Rep. Davidson (01:37:43):

Yeah. Thanks for highlighting the concern on security risks. I mean, in your testimony, you discuss how many individuals have granted access to secure government facilities or IT systems via false social security numbers or other false credentials. It's especially disorienting to hear about large numbers of staff receiving clearances and access to sensitive material when House representatives can't even get clearances for some of our staff members. What steps are you taking to clean up the clearance rosters?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:38:10):

Well, right now we have a director of security who's doing an incredible job trying to clean up the mess. So one of the things we're doing is reducing the number of people who have security clearances. I think one of the members said, "Why does a reporter need a security clearance?" I think it was the chairman who said that. And we went through and we are starting to weed out and pare down that list. We took all of the presidents of the various grantees, those are not government employees, they all had top secret clearances, and we revoked that, and they cried like crazy when we did it, but there's no reason to have that. RFA, Radio Free Asia, asked our security director if we would build a skiff in their facility. Why on earth would they need a skiff? So we're doing everything we can to try to get things back under control, but I think President Trump has the right idea. We need to eliminate this agency, find what's salvageable, and move it over to the Department of State.

Rep. Davidson (01:39:03):

Thank you so much for that clarity, and certainly we're not going to broadcast-

Chairman Mast (01:39:09):

Gentleman's time has expired-

Rep. Davidson (01:39:09):

Classified information, so thank you for safeguarding it.

Chairman Mast (01:39:12):

Chair now recognizes Representative Olszewski.

Rep. Olszewski (01:39:15):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to chairman ranking member Meeks for convening this hearing. Thank you, Ms. Lake, for joining us today. I am a new member on this committee, but in just the past few months, I've seen how important, in person, the Voice of America, Radio Free Europe and other USAGM outlets are to Americans and to our allies. It's vital to diplomacy. It connects and informs people as we seek to promote our democracy and our freedom around the world. Indeed, VOA and USAGM outlets are American soft-power weapons. And central to the mission of an international broadcasting agency is truth and is balance. What we share with the world should be rooted in fact so that America maintains its credibility on the world stage.

(01:40:03)
I'm sharing these concerns because I recently know, through my travel and in some countries, that USAGM is the sole source of credible information. I was just in Taiwan, where government officials and NGOs made it clear Radio Free Asia is an indispensable tool against PRC misinformation and aggression. And to that end, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter two articles into the record, one from Politico, Moscow and Beijing Rejoicing at Looming Death of Radio Free Europe VOA, and another one from the Washington Post, Chinese Propaganda Surges as the US De-Funds Radio Free Asia."

Chairman Mast (01:40:43):

Without objection.

Rep. Olszewski (01:40:44):

Thank you. Ms. Lake, I have just a few questions today. I hope the first one is pretty simple. Yes or no, do you believe in the mission of USAGM and its grantees are important?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:40:55):

It's really like the yes or no answers day.

Rep. Olszewski (01:40:57):

I think that's a pretty easy one, but.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:40:58):

I believe in the mission. I wish that it were followed.

Rep. Olszewski (01:41:01):

Okay, and I appreciate that, but worry that, as my colleagues have shared, executing on that mission is very difficult with an administration that is gutting our only way, in some parts of the world, of sharing, in the most oppressive of media markets, information that needs to be shared. Media reports, for example, indicated that VOA broadcasts just 75 minutes of content to its audience in Iran over the past few days, knowing that we used to broadcast 24/7. And I know that you mentioned that there's not a huge audience, but it's come to my attention that VOA's Persian audience has actually doubled in the past four years. As of June, 2023, in the middle of that growth, it was measured that the outlet was covering almost 16% of all adult Iranians. So I just would say as we're facing a very unsettled world, I think having information is really important. And so I think that is perhaps why we're seeing, as in the articles I shared, that our adversaries are in fact celebrating this retrenchment from our involvement. I'd like to read an article-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:42:17):

You know what? Can I say something about that? I think CCP might be selling-

Rep. Olszewski (01:42:17):

I'll give you an opportunity, ma'am. I'm happy to give you an opportunity. "The so-called beacon of Freedom, VOA, has now been discarded by its own government like a dirty rag." This is from the Chinese Communist Party's owned Global Times paper. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Mao Ning seems to agree with your characterization of VOA as, "A lie factory that stirs up conflict with a notorious track record in their China coverage." I guess my question to you, is it concerning, or should it be concerning to us as members of this committee, that you share the same opinion as a Chinese Communist government spokesperson?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:42:57):

The Chinese government, if they are upset about having less coverage, it's because they were in control of a lot of our coverage. The CCP, and I think you came in late, actually has-

Rep. Olszewski (01:43:09):

No, ma'am, I've been here the entire time.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:43:10):

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't notice. The CCP has more control over what we put out editorially than people who are management at the agency. Do you think that's okay?

Rep. Olszewski (01:43:23):

No, I think we should be putting out truthful information, and sometimes-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:43:25):

And as you see here, the former leader-

Rep. Olszewski (01:43:27):

And we should go after that. And sometimes, but what I do concern-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:43:29):

Amanda Bennett resigned-

Rep. Olszewski (01:43:30):

What is concerning to me-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:43:31):

For failing to stop Chinese propaganda.

Rep. Olszewski (01:43:33):

Is if you, and you've already said that your goal ultimately is to move this agency and its independence, which is truly a core pillar of journalism, as someone who is in journalism, having that independence is absolutely important, there's no other way that we're going to be a credible source to the world if other governments and other members of countries see what we're doing. I mean, first of all, we're not communicating, but when we do, they have to know that the information is real, it's authentic, and it's actually advancing American interest. I very much look forward to working with my colleagues on the committee here so that we can make sure the information is truthful, it is factual, and that it advances American interest. You have my commitment to work with you on that, but we have to make sure that we're actually promoting those interests through supporting this work.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:44:17):

Well, hopefully we can root out the Russian, Chinese, Iranian propaganda that has been prevalent on our airwaves at VOA, and we're going to work to do that.

Chairman Mast (01:44:28):

Chair now recognizes Representative Barr.

Rep. Barr (01:44:31):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Lake, I'm sorry, you've had to endure these ad hominem attacks, which are clearly designed to shift focus away from the patriotic work that you're doing to honor hardworking American taxpayers and make sure not only that you're cleaning out the corruption and frankly the rot within this agency, but actually advancing American national security, as opposed to actively undermining it.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:44:57):

That's right.

Rep. Barr (01:44:59):

And to my colleague who just asked you about Beijing and Beijing rejoicing, the reason why Beijing needs to be a focus of this conversation is we need to be asking the question I think you just did. Why is the Chinese Communist Party in charge of VOA? Why are they running VOA? Past leadership of the VOA Mandarin Language Service conducted annual meetings with the Chinese embassy in Washington, D.C., allowing Chinese embassy officials to opine and make suggestions on VOA Mandarin Language Service content. Chinese Communist party officials have also reached out to VOA hosts to convince them to be more supportive of the communist regime, and the outcomes have actually rewarded the CCP's efforts. VOA's Mandarin Language Service personalities have hosted events at the Chinese Embassy, and one of VOA's television editors even publicly pledged his allegiance to the People's Republic of China at a Chinese Embassy event. Is this correct, Ms. Lake?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:46:01):

This is correct. This is correct, and whistleblowers in the agency, in the Mandarin service who tried to stop that, were fired or got so burned out trying to stop it they left the job.

Rep. Barr (01:46:14):

So VOA also allowed Communist Vietnamese and Communist Chinese Embassies in Washington, D.C., to pressure them into removing videos, cutting short live interviews or changing story angles, so that the coverage was more supportive of the communist governments of Hanoi and Beijing. Is this the voice of America or is this the voice of Beijing?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:46:40):

Some have said it's the voice of anti-America.

Rep. Barr (01:46:43):

Yeah. So I think that your efforts to reform the agency are vital to American national security. Why are we allowing the CCP to run the VOA newsroom while the U.S. taxpayer is on the hook for this? Are any of these VOA employees who acted on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party, are they still employed?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:47:08):

It's possible. We're working to try to figure that out, but unfortunately, when you do a reduction in force, it's called a RIF, and we are reducing the number of people who work at Voice of America, typical government fashion, you can't say, "Hey, we'd like to keep certain people because they are people who are performing well and doing a good job," you can't do that in the government, you just remove positions. And so we are shedding some of the positions, making the force lean and mean and ready to operate, and when a big story breaks, we can surge, we've got additional funding to do that, by pulling back some of the funding from the grantees. We have about $17.3 million, so when we have to surge to cover something that's breaking, we can do that.

Rep. Barr (01:47:54):

So Dan Robinson, a 34-year veteran of VOA and a former White House correspondent, here's what he wrote. "I have monitored the agency's bureaucracy, along with many of its reporters, and concluded that it has essentially become a hubris-filled rogue operation, often reflecting leftist bias aligned with partisan national media. It has sought to avoid accountability for violations of journalistic standards and mismanagement. We've got great examples of this even in the Oval Office, a former VOA associate editor, Carol Guensburg, directed staff to, "Avoid calling Hamas and its members terrorists." Again, this is not the voice of America, this is the voice of America's enemies, and I thank you for trying to clean up the mess. And last question, you've heard a lot of language like a vacuum and gutting and dismantling. I want you, Ms. Lake, to clear the record once and for all in this final question, address the hysteria from the administration's critics here and clarify what is the administration's objective here? Is it to end U.S. International Broadcasting or is the goal to reform the agency so that actually is the voice of America and not the voice against America?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:49:07):

I believe that the goal of the administration is to reform the agency, to reform our messaging, but to eliminate a corrupt agency. We don't need USAGM to get a message out, a positive, pro-America message out. We can do this through other methods.

Rep. Barr (01:49:25):

Well, deep state bias is one thing, mismanagement, corruption, is one thing, but when you are actively undermining American national security, this agency needs massive reform, and I thank you for leading it.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:49:38):

Thank you.

Rep. Barr (01:49:39):

Yield back.

Chairman Mast (01:49:40):

Chair now recognizes Representative Kamlager-Dove.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:49:43):

Thank you, Mr. Chair and ranking member, and thank you, Ms. Lake, for joining us today. I'm deeply concerned that what the Trump administration is doing to VOA and all of the independent broadcast networks is harming the United States and serving our adversaries. It seems like everyone is sort of saying the same thing, even though they're using different examples. So Ms. Lake, this is an easy question, is it your goal to advance U.S. Interests or the interests of our adversaries?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:50:24):

We want to make sure we are advancing U.S. Interests.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:50:27):

Great, thank you. And earlier, because I, too, have been here there, a question was asked of you about Russia invading Ukraine and if Russia was an adversary, and you answered that question, but I would like it if you could just answer it again. Do you believe that Russia is one of our adversaries?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:50:45):

Yes.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:50:46):

Okay, thank you. I do too. So when Trump decided to gut USAGM, the head of Russia today, the Kremlin state-controlled news broadcaster actually said, " Today is a holiday for me and my colleagues at RT and Sputnik. This is an awesome decision by Trump." So Ms. Lake, why do you think the head of Russia today would say this is an awesome decision by Trump?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:51:18):

I'm really disturbed that we were spreading Russian propaganda and hiring Russian spies at Voice of America. Have you ever thought about that?

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:51:25):

Well, allegedly there is a Russian operative in the White House office of personnel, but you're not asking me questions, I'm asking you questions. The question is, why do you think the head of Russia today would say this is an awesome decision by Trump?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:51:39):

I don't know. I haven't talked to these people.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:51:43):

Okay. Well, I think-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:51:44):

Have you talked to these-

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:51:45):

But at least you're honest when you say you don't know. I think that the answer is obvious, and that crippling Voice of America actually allows Russia today to spread propaganda without any opposition. And in fact, the PRC had a similar response. And in earlier lines of questioning, people suggested that the CCP was running VOA, you sort of inferred that that could be the truth-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:52:13):

They have more control over VOA-

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:52:14):

That Beijing was running the VOA, had people in there. So the Global times, a Chinese state media outlet that spreads CCP talking points, also celebrated your actions and called VOA, " A lie factory," pointing to their reports on human rights abuses in Xinjiang, and the Global Times also called VOA, "Thoroughly biased propaganda poison." I feel like I have also heard that phrase used by members from across the aisle, my colleagues, and that line also could have been pulled right out of your opening statement. So Ms. Lake, do you think that VOA's reporting on China's genocide against the Uyghurs is a lie?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:53:04):

There's been some good reporting at VOA, I'm not saying all of it has been bad, but at any time we're doing Chinese propaganda, when VOA decided to do a two-minute Chinese propaganda video and produce it, I've got a problem with that. And I have a feeling that the men and women across this country do as well.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:53:20):

But I'm asking about something that many of our allies also care about. And we know China's position on the Uyghurs. And so I think it's important that we report on that and we do so in a true and factual basis. And I also think it's important to say that if you are dismantling, if you are crippling, even if you are arbitrarily shrinking without a plan, because we've heard you answer questions, but we have not been shared any kind of plan, that dismantling an agency that counters PRC propaganda and allowing it to go unchecked is something we should be talking about.

Ms. Kari Lake (01:53:59):

But it doesn't counter propaganda from the CCP.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:54:01):

Well, if we're not here, if we're not here-

Ms. Kari Lake (01:54:03):

It spreads propaganda from the CCP.

Rep. Kamlager-Dove (01:54:05):

Then we can't counter it. If we're not here, then we cannot counter it. And I know you have talked about what just happened with Iran, how everybody got put on administrative leave and then the strikes happened, and then you asked people to come back because I guess somebody had a WTF moment, but then right after that, there was a reduction in force, which you just alluded to, to permanently eradicate many of their jobs. And so I am just saying that we have to have folks in place to respond to crises, immediate, emergent, on the horizon, and we can't do it with only two people in an office using a smartphone waiting to get direction from a security advisor who hasn't even been confirmed or brought up for confirmation from the Senate. And with that, I yield back.

Chairman Mast (01:54:52):

The gentlelady's time has expired. I can say for myself, I appreciate that a lot in journalism are freelance journalists, and they're not constantly on the payroll. I think it's a good model that the U.S. Government should look at, when are they needed and when are they not. Chair now recognizes Representative Baird.

Rep. Baird (01:55:08):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ms. Lake, we really appreciate what you're trying to do in the reform and really appreciate you being here. My questions focus on, I know some of my colleagues and the public observers are really concerned about what's happening in the USAGM and are unhappy about what seems to be reducing its capacity to communicate with foreign national populations around the world. Of those Chinese, North Koreans, Cubans, Venezuelans, Russians and Iranians, they further claim that our reduction in withdrawal from the broadcasting spaces will create a vacuum that these other governments, many of which are communist governments, will be happy to fill. I'm not sure that I agree with that at all, but I would ask you, how would you respond to these critics for your current efforts to consolidate broadcasting efforts?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:56:06):

We can't continue to spend money the way we have in the federal government, and there have to be ways that we can reduce the spending. And President Trump has determined that this is an agency that we can reduce the spending. We don't need to be broadcasting in all of these languages. We need to be more nimble and focus on areas where the U.S. Government and where the United States needs to get a message out to people. And I think we can do a better job at it when we're nimble and smaller. And we have proof of that, because our Persian team that came to work when the bombs dropped on Saturday and the President did his address, we sprung into action, we got the message out, and they said in a way it was easier to do that because it wasn't such a big group.

Rep. Baird (01:56:49):

I understand that, and that makes it more nimble. And you said that in earlier comments, and so that's very much appreciated. So do you think the United States needs to fund international broadcasting operations into all of these and other countries in order to influence those populations? Do you think we have the ability to influence populations and getting that information to those populations is worthwhile?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:57:15):

I think we have the ability. Information can be used to influence people in many different forms, whether it be through social media, and governments are doing this, they're seeding narratives on social media. It's how things are done. China's doing it, Russia's doing it, America's doing it. The question is, do we need to spend the money that we are spending? Do we need to spend nearly a billion dollars? Should we be spending hard-earned tax dollars supporting and sponsoring an Afghan cricket team? Should we be putting $100,000 towards sponsoring an Afghan cricket team? Is that the best use of the money? Is that what we're supposed to do with it, or are we supposed to be telling America's story abroad?

(01:57:57)
There's so much misuse of public dollars in this agency that it needs to be scrapped, and we need to salvage what we can, but it's really like a rotten piece of fish. And you're looking at it and you're saying is there anything we can pull out of here and eat, and it's best to just scrap the whole thing and start over. And I think that's the way we should go forward. That's my personal opinion.

Rep. Baird (01:58:18):

You touched on something that's dear to my heart. I never forget, in the actions that I take here, that someone back home is working hard to pay the taxes to put the light bill on and to make sure we have an office like this, and then we need to have the responsibility, the oversight, to make sure those dollars that are going to other countries and other places are being used efficiently and effectively, and so I really admire your approach to that. One last question. What do you really think, I heard you mention the social media and some of these other aspects, what do you think is our best way forward? Do we focus more on social media or how's our best way forward for trying to communicate? Different countries have different ways and different access to different things, but social media is becoming stronger all the time. So what's your opinion of that situation?

Ms. Kari Lake (01:59:11):

I think we have to move further away from, like I said, doing 1990s-style television. I mean, look at President Trump communicates with the world with a simple tweet, and it's very effective, and hundreds of millions of people hear what he has to say. Joe Rogan, a one-man show, reaches hundreds of millions of people. We don't need thousands of people to tell America's story. People are telling America's story on social media. We can do it, as I said, in a more nimble way and focus on ways that we're telling it appropriately. And right now, as I said, the pro-Iranian regime coverage that's come out of this, the pro-CCP coverage has come out of Voice of America, this thing has gotten very rotten. And we've had pro-Russian coverage coming out, we've hired Russian spies. Radio Free Europe nearly hired 20 Russian spies. If not for being tipped off, they would've had 20 Russian spies working in that outlet. And God only knows what kind of damage they could have done.

(02:00:11)
These things are a waste of money, they're spending money like there's no tomorrow, salaries are out of control. The president of RFE makes more than $320,000, I believe, and then you add all the other leadership and these various grantees. This is a hard-earned taxpayer dollar. And I think about the people who are working hard and barely make ends meet. I think about the overnight truck driver who's doing the overnight shift. I think about the teacher who's working hard and barely has time to come home and spend time with their own kids. I think about the farmer in Iowa who's working long hours and having to pay the government tax dollars. And it's going toward, for God's sakes, a cricket team in Afghanistan, and it's going to hire spies? This is outrageous and it's got to stop, and thank God for President Trump, for having the courage to say-

Chairman Mast (02:01:01):

Gentleman's time is expired.

Rep. Baird (02:01:02):

My time's up, and so I yield back.

Chairman Mast (02:01:05):

Chair now recognizes Representative Amo.

Rep. Amo (02:01:08):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Lake, for being here. Since its founding to counter Nazi propaganda during World War II, Voice of America has been a beacon of free information in repressive countries. Voice of America's parent agency, the U.S. Agency for Global Media or USAGM, has provided access to the free press and information in over 50 languages around the world through radio, television, and internet programs. These programs, as you know, are often the only reliable news sources free from malign government, foreign government influence. The programs promote free thought, democratic values and American credibility while countering authoritarian propaganda and disinformation.

(02:01:50)
However, under your leadership, Ms. Lake, USAGM has been shattered. At the direction of President Trump, you cut programs, slashed funding, and tried to shutter our global news network. Now journalists are in increased danger and reliable news is no longer accessible for millions around the world. The editor of the Russian State Media Network, Russia Today, celebrated your work to close Radio Free Europe, another USAGM subsidiary, saying, "We couldn't shut them down, unfortunately, but America did it so itself." If our adversaries are chairing this decision, why make it in the first place? Why, after decades of successful work and experts celebrating the effectiveness of these programs, would you end them? Why would you side with our adversaries who spread disinformation by removing respected programs that counter their propaganda?

(02:02:48)
Maybe it's just your track record and history of attacking the media. During your first failed run for public office for governor of Arizona, you called reporters, "The right hand of the devil." Maybe it's because you have a history of sharing disinformation yourself. You refuse to admit, still, who won the 2020 presidential election, falsely claiming it was a rigged election. You called the January 6th insurrection here at the Capitol a staged riot, you refused to admit you lost both in 2022, in the gubernatorial race, and in 2024 for the U.S. Senate. The disinformation you spread during your failed campaigns were paper cuts, however, compared to the gaping wounds that will take root around the world because of your destruction of USAGM. Our adversaries are already filling the massive information hole left by USAGM. The 60 shortwave radio stations Radio Free Asia used to distribute its broadcasts have been silenced since you shut them down in March. And at the same time, China has added 80 new state media frequencies to increase the spread of their propaganda.

(02:03:58)
So instead of listening to free press and trusted news from Radio Free Asia, nearly 60 million people are forced to turn to the Chinese Communist Party. The spread of CCP disinformation is alarming. In Xinjiang, where Radio Free Asia brought global attention to the Uyghur genocide, as the CCP worked overtime to hide this genocide by imprisoning Uyghur journalists spreading propaganda and controlling news, Radio Free Asia fought back to share the true story. The CCP tried to shut down Radio Free Asia's operations. They jammed signals and arrested and intimidated journalists and their families. It did not work. Thanks to Radio Free Asia, the world knows the truth. It was spreading in China too, because they translated stories into different dialects, or at least it was until you took over USAGM and aided the CCP by stopping their work.

(02:04:54)
That's your legacy. You told the media that you would be their worst, " freaking nightmare." You do seem to be a bit of a nightmare, a nightmare to the free press, a nightmare to the truth in general, but not our adversaries. They seem very comfortable. So I've got a simple question for you, Ms. Lake, why are you helping authoritarian governments lie to their people?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:05:21):

I can see why maybe China would be upset that VOA is slimming down because they lost their ability to push their propaganda through the VOA, which they were doing. I don't know if you were here earlier, but the CCP-

Rep. Amo (02:05:35):

I've been watching you, don't worry.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:05:36):

The CCP has a lot of control over what kind of content VOA does. You know who doesn't have control? People running the agency. The VOA could do a hit piece on you, they could lie about you, they could put the most heinous story out about you, and guess what, Representative Amo? You couldn't pick up the phone call and say, "Please don't do that. It's not true." They would sue you for a firewall violation. So we've got to get a handle about what message we're putting out, and sadly, it hasn't been rainbows and lollipops, okay? We've been putting out a lot of anti-America propaganda, Russian propaganda.

Rep. Amo (02:06:14):

My time is expired.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:06:15):

Okay, great.

Rep. Amo (02:06:17):

I yield back.

Chairman Mast (02:06:18):

The gentleman's time is expired. And I would remind my colleagues as well, it could be any one of them that was targeted by a U.S. agency of Global Media and by individuals inside of the headquarters on either side of the aisle. I look forward to hearing the results of that investigation. Chair now recognizes Representative Mackenzie.

Rep. Mackenzie (02:06:36):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ms. Lake, for joining us today. I think it is imperative that we recognize the challenge that VOA faces in terms of the infiltration that we've been talking about during this hearing of the anti-American information that has been put out, whether it's pro-Russia, pro-China. All of this is problematic, and I think it's also a problem that members on this committee aren't willing to recognize that problem. If we can't all come together and recognize the fact that this organization and this agency is conflicted in many ways, I don't know how we're going to address the problem. So I appreciate the fact that you've recognized that, and your reform efforts are critical. If we want to actually advance America's interests around the world, get out this truthful information, we need to make sure that we are then going to be in a position to spend the dollars that we're appropriating for this program effectively.

(02:07:34)
So the question that I have relates to two, I think, misuses of public funds. The first is about a lease. So we have a video that has been provided that shows a facility that was leased for 15 years, $250 million, $250 million of taxpayer money to lease this lavish building in downtown Washington, D.C., on Pennsylvania Avenue.

Ms. Kari Lake (00:00):


Ms. Kari Lake (02:08:00):

… Nice.

Rep. Mackenzie (02:08:00):

Yet at the same time they are still occupying the Cohen building. So tell me about this new lease and what we know about it at this point.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:08:09):

Well, their plan was to take this operation and move it into this building, a quarter of a billion dollar boondoggle, that Amanda Bennett, the former CEO under Joe Biden's administration, the former CEO of USAGM signed in this lease right before in the fall, right before the election, to make the American taxpayers pay for this gorgeous facility. Have you ever seen a federal facility this beautiful, by the way? And there you go. You've got waterfalls, you've got Italian marble glass, and they were going to move everybody over into this building. One slight problem, it's not set up or equipped to do any broadcasting and this is a broadcasting agency. So we canceled that. We canceled that and tore up the lease and said, "We're not going to pay for that lease."

Rep. Mackenzie (02:08:55):

Thank you for doing that because that is just a shocking misuse of federal funds. And if we do want to actually carry out the good work that VOA possibly could do, we need to make sure that American tax dollars are being spent appropriately and not on wasteful leases like this one, so appreciate your effort to cancel that lease. The second thing that I would like to talk about is relating to some really egregious settlements that were carried out previously for former employees of the agency. And you referenced it in your opening testimony, so I would like to hear a little bit more about this. Again, it sounds like a misuse of federal funds and if you could share some more information on that, I'd appreciate it.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:09:37):

I think a lot of DC lawyers figured out a quick way to make money is to sue this agency. This agency will roll over and pay off any settlement. As a matter of fact, one of our former attorneys at the agency, upon seeing how many settlements were made there, said that she's never seen so many large settlements go out in any agency. I have in this binder 19 settlements. We only picked the big ones, over $250,000 settlements. 19 $250,000 settlements were made out of the USAGM in the last five years. A couple of them were for folks like a man named David Kligerman who used to work for the agency. Now he works I believe over at Middle East Broadcasting. He left the agency after the McGuireWoods report came out showing misspending, abuse of the agency, abuse of the federal tax dollar.

(02:10:35)
And then he came back when Biden and put Amanda Bennett in, hired him back, and paid him a $650,000 settlement. His attorneys made a fortune as well. I think they figured out that they've got a compliant legal office at USAGM that will settle anything. All you got to do is sue the agency and they'll throw tons of money your way and that's another way they've pilfered tax dollars of the American people.

Rep. Mackenzie (02:10:59):

Well, I appreciate your work to highlight the waste and misuse from the last administration when our country is trillions of dollars in debt, running multi-trillion dollar deficits every single year. We have to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars. It's finally time to do that. I'm glad this administration is taking on that effort, attacking waste and abuse of federal funds like I just talked about here. And if we actually want to get back to the mission of promoting American interests around the world, we need to do that with the tax dollars that we have available. And so these reform efforts that we're talking about today are so critically important and I, again, want to thank you for our efforts and worked with you hand in hand as we actually get back to the critical missions that this agency could provide for America and American interest around the world. Thank you and I yield back.

Mr. Chairman (02:11:48):

Chair now recognizes Representative Titus.

Representative Titus (02:11:51):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I get to my questions, I'd just like for the record to show that the USAGM reported to Congress of that so-called swanky building that you just saw pictures of would actually save the taxpayers $150 million. So let's be sure we get our facts straight as we try to …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:12:09):

Can I respond to that?

Representative Titus (02:12:10):

… Grandstand with pictures.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:12:12):

Can I respond to that?

Representative Titus (02:12:12):

I have some other questions for you. Thank you. Ms. Lake, do you agree that the U.S Agency for Global Media should be a reliable and authoritative news source?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:12:24):

Yes, and unfortunately it hasn't been.

Representative Titus (02:12:26):

Well, I'm glad you say that because it's really not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of law. The law requires the agency to provide news which is consistently reliable and authoritative, accurate, objective, and comprehensive. Now, you criticize the agency as not doing that, but others think that the agency was doing that up until the time that Donald Trump took office. We broadcast news to hundreds of millions of people around the world and provided a crucial counterweight to the propaganda that was coming from our adversaries. Then President Trump decided to dismantle USAGM with your help and all its networks. But in my view, the most ludicrous and concerning thing that has been done was to direct the agency to engage One America News to provide content for Voice of America and your other broadcasters. So I'd like to ask you, do you think UAN, One American News, is a reliable and authoritarian news source as the law requires?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:13:28):

Yeah, I think they do a better job than most news outlets. They cover America.

Representative Titus (02:13:32):

Well, let's look at some of the things that they've said and tell me that if you really think …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:13:36):

And by the way, it was not my idea to do that.

Representative Titus (02:13:39):

It was under your direction and from your president have [inaudible 02:13:42] so wonderful I'm surprised you're not wearing a MAGA here today. Nonetheless, I'm taking back [inaudible 02:13:49].

Ms. Kari Lake (02:13:40):

The Office of Cuba Broadcasting requested that we bring that in.

Representative Titus (02:13:49):

I can keep talking over you forever, but let's look at some of the things that the OAN did, which was given the contract and they're doing it, whether it's from you or from the president that you admire so, they said the leadership there told its reporters to, and I'm quoting, minimize coverage of Russian aggression. Now, do you think that's reliable and authoritative and better than other news agencies, to minimize coverage of Russian aggression?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:14:19):

I'm not making the rundown of what airs One America's Voice, but they have to cover … Or One America News rather. They have to cover what is of interest to them and to their viewers.

Representative Titus (02:14:32):

But they're the ones who now have the contract to put out the news to all these different agencies that are under your direction. Shouldn't you be aware of what kind of news they're putting out?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:14:42):

I don't tell them what to put on the air at Voice of America because of an editorial firewall. Apparently the CCP has more say in what goes over the air at Voice of America.

Representative Titus (02:14:54):

I think that's a little ridiculous. I don't feel like China's over here telling OAN what they can cover. I don't think China told them to minimize their coverage of Russian aggression.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:15:01):

Talk to some of the whistleblowers.

Representative Titus (02:15:03):

Let me ask you if you think this is a good coverage. Their programming for the agency, they were told also minimize coverage of the Pope because he has been making comments about climate change and advocating action. You think that's good coverage, not to cover the Pope? You think that's reliable and authoritative?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:15:26):

It is not my decision on what is airing.

Representative Titus (02:15:28):

You're in charge. You're in charge.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:15:30):

I'm not in charge of OAN.

Representative Titus (02:15:32):

You have a contract with these people, so it seems like it's your decision. Here's something else. The reports say that OAN instructed its employees to report only on good polls for Donald Trump. Only on good polls. And they perpetuated the lie that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. That's the news that went out to the rest of the world under your leadership.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:15:54):

They were one of the only outlets that had the courage to cover elections.

Representative Titus (02:15:57):

Please, please. You're going to say we're going to only cover good polls for Trump and still continue to say that the 2020 election was rigged? And that's the news we're putting out to the rest of the world and that's the ones who have the contract?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:16:12):

Let me see if I can pull the phone number for the person who runs OAN and you can have a conversation about that.

Representative Titus (02:16:17):

Well, I hope you have the phone number. You're the one [inaudible 02:16:18]

Ms. Kari Lake (02:16:18):

I'm worried about the content on Voice of America.

Representative Titus (02:16:20):

If you're worried about the content, then why aren't you worried about what these people are saying? They're supposed to be under the law authoritative and reliable. And now suddenly after knowing all these details about the number of spies and what the Chinese are doing, you don't know what OAN is doing and that's the ones you have the contract with. I find that either …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:16:42):

We don't have a contract with them. We have an agreement. If we want to air there …

Representative Titus (02:16:45):

I'm sorry, an agreement. And I can't believe that. I can't believe you know everything about all these other agreements, but not about the one that's doing the news for us that's supposed to be reliable. And can't cover the Pope, can't cover Russian aggression, which would mean Ukraine. Can't cover that the election was legitimate. Can't cover any negative polls for the president.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:17:06):

Congresswoman.

Representative Titus (02:17:06):

I'm shocked.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:17:06):

This is just one option for …

Representative Titus (02:17:06):

I yield back. I yield back.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:17:13):

It's the best news I've heard all day.

Mr. Chairman (02:17:17):

[inaudible 02:17:16] time has expired. Chair now recognizes Representative Burchett.

Representative Burchett (02:17:20):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you, ma'am, for being here. I think what you're seeing on display here today is the far left is sacrificing a lot of their moderate members just to protect themselves. I think they're more important to stay in their corrupt little cocoon of power than to do what's right for this country. And I want to thank you, ma'am, for the work you've done. I noticed you were talking about real estate. I didn't have it in my notes, but I remembered in another hearing that we had in an empty building that we were renting out that Chairman Green, Marjorie Taylor Greene, had us in and the Doge subcommittee that I asked a question about the members of Congress own real estate that's being rented to the federal government and the answer was yes.

(02:18:11)
And if we had legitimate media in this country, that would've been a 60-minute story. That would've been something that would've been done over and over again. And they're stealing from all of us, the left, the right, the middle, everyone. And you clearly have a record of going after political hacks and I salute you for that, ma'am.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:18:32):

This town is full of them.

Representative Burchett (02:18:33):

Yes, ma'am, it is. And I'm from Tennessee and we're sick and tired of paying for this garbage and I want to thank you. Is the US Agency of Global Media absolutely necessary to the function of the United States?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:18:47):

No.

Representative Burchett (02:18:48):

Okay. I think that we're putting out some radio show in the land of computers and internet to me is very antiquated. We might as well be riding a Model T down the middle of the street. Maybe it looks good and it brings back old memories, but, dadgum, it's not very efficient. And I see you're more of a …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:19:08):

It's a relic. It's a relic.

Representative Burchett (02:19:09):

Yes, ma'am, it is. It's a Cold War relic. And I'm ask you another question, a little more direct. A lady named Satara Siege. Does she work for the US Agency for Global Media? Do you know?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:19:23):

I don't believe she works there anymore.

Representative Burchett (02:19:26):

Okay. Because in 2017, Ms. Siege was fired from the Voice of America Persian News Network for lying on her resume, providing federal contracts to her friends, and using tax dollars for personal travel. In 2021, about eight hours after Biden was sworn in, Ms. Siege was given a job right back at the US Agency for Global Media. And during the last Congress, she and others at the US Agency for Global Media actively worked to discredit a report from the committee by then-Chairman McCaul, which detailed her actions and included whistleblower complaints, stating she and others threatened subordinates at work. Are you aware of any other cases similar to Ms. Siege?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:20:08):

Yes. A lot of the people that were implicated in that report, the McGuireWoods report, who pilfered the American taxpayers dollars and ran a very corrupt agency and were dismissed or left then came back. And some of them are still holding positions, making hundreds of thousands of dollars at our grantees. This is why we're trying to do an audit of the grantees to find out where the money is going, nearly $400 million. The hard-earned taxpayer dollars of hardworking American people are going to these grantees and they've stonewalled us from getting any information until the 11th hour. Finally last night, knowing I would be sitting here, they finally agreed to say, "Oh, we'll let you look at our books now." It's a joke, what's going on and the joke is going to end.

(02:20:55)
And we're going to bring some accountability to this agency because the people of this country are sick and tired of the crap going on in Washington DC. They're sick and tired of their money being spent in a way where it's not only being wasted, but where we're putting out Russian propaganda, where we're putting out CCP propaganda on Voice of America. This is a boondoggle and it's an assault on the American people.

Representative Burchett (02:21:22):

If I ever write a book, the title of it'll be Compromised because that's what this dadgum town is, ma'am. It is crooked as a dog's leg and I'm glad you're doing something about it. Do you agree anyone who acts like Ms. Seige should be shown the door?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:21:37):

Absolutely, and we are showing people the door.

Representative Burchett (02:21:40):

And I thank you for that. I come from a family of strong women. My mama flew an airplane during the Second World War. My little girl, I got her a little late. I married her mama and she was a widow and adopted her and she is a strong young lady. Shares a birthday with the president, just turned 18, and I hope one day she aspires to kick the hornet's nest like you've just done, ma'am, because it's a pleasure to have you where you're at. And thank you so much and I appreciate you having to put up with all this crazy nonsense, but we got a country to save and I hope you keep doing it.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:22:16):

That's right. That's right.

Representative Burchett (02:22:16):

Thank you, ma'am.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:22:16):

And they've sued us. They've tried to stop us. They want to stop President Trump from making America great again. These same people who refused to stand up and cheer for a 13-year-old boy who's battling cancer. These same people who stood on the floor of Congress and waved the Ukrainian flag after pouring $60 billion more into a war to kill more people when they wouldn't put a penny on our border. And they let our country be overrun with criminals coming into our country who are raping and killing young people and taking their lives. And now they want to try to fight President Trump every day and stop him from deporting people who came here illegally. And they want to continue running Chinese propaganda at Voice of America. I thank your mother for being a hero, for being a veteran. And I know the chairman fought valiantly for our country.

Representative Burchett (02:23:12):

She wasn't technically a veteran. I have to clarify that. Her brother died fighting the Nazis while daddy was off fighting the Japanese. But I'd have to clarify that just because of the fact checkers.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:23:21):

But I think.

Representative Burchett (02:23:22):

But she was a gutsy little 17 year old girl.

Mr. Chairman (02:23:26):

We have to move on to the next round of questioning here. Chair now recognizes ….

Ms. Kari Lake (02:23:28):

There's a lot of people who are rolling over in their grave right now who did die for this country.

Mr. Chairman (02:23:32):

That's right.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:23:33):

And when they find out that Voice of America is pushing anti-American propaganda, it's unconscionable.

Mr. Chairman (02:23:39):

Chair now recognizes Representative Dean.

Representative Dean (02:23:45):

Hi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've just heard three or four or five members from the other side of the aisle say thank you for bringing reform.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:23:57):

You're welcome.

Representative Dean (02:23:58):

No, but let me finish my sentence, please, because that's not what you're bringing. They obviously didn't hear your testimony. They did not read your testimony. And I'll read part of it and you said it again today. I was sworn in at USAGM on March 3rd and it became clear in the following weeks, today you said in days, that reform was not possible. They missed your premise. Reform's not possible. You figured that out in days. When asked what review you had done of this very large agency, you had no answer. A couple of …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:24:35):

I do have an answer.

Representative Dean (02:24:36):

Excuse me. This is my time. You'll wait for my questions. You then went on to say this is filled with a bloated staff who hates America. You have been holding up photographs after photographs, including the image of the President of the United States. I feel like I am suffering through a propaganda war through your testimony. So I can see why the other side of the aisle, which is now not here, was utterly confused and congratulating you for wanting to reform this agency. No, because here's what you said. And I'm a former professor of writing. I'm somebody who is really skeptical of euphemism. You've said over and over again you just want to reduce it to its statutory minimum. And then you said, "And that it will be gone by 2026." You want it gone. The president wants it gone by 2026. I ask unanimous consent to enter onto the record this article, Moscow and Beijing rejoice at the looming death of radio free Europe VOA. I ask unanimous consent.

(02:25:53)
Thank you, Chair. No, that is not for you to speak to. That's what we do here. This article, Chinese propaganda surges as the US defunds Radio Asia. I ask unanimous consent. Our adversaries are delighted with your plan, delighted that you'll be stripping this thing out. And I'm puzzled. My question really today is for Republican members. Think of the vaunted VOA. I have had the opportunity to visit VOA and many of the journalists who have worked at VOA. It is something that this country has been very proud of. And yet, in your beginning testimony you talked about, oh, my goodness. USAGM "hires a large number of foreign nationals, including from countries hostile to America. And uses J-1 visas as a shadow jobs and back door immigration program." Number one, again, propaganda, misinformation. J-1 visas are non-immigrant visas.

(02:26:56)
Number two, and this is just a question of logic and basic understanding, think about it, many of the journalists who report through these supported networks are native to the countries in which it is critical to transmit accurate, factual and linguistically fluent information. Of course they should be hired, but you use as though that's a bad thing. Large number of foreign nationals as though there's some other, as though there's a reason to demonize them. Foreign national journalists who actually understand what's going on.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:27:39):

We should hire American.

Representative Dean (02:27:40):

You know what? Voice of America is not only about talking about America. It's about reporting on the world and millions of people for decades have relied upon it. So for those of you who think this was about reform, it's not. It's about shutting down media. If you really wanted to reform it, if you really thought there were places to change, and I'm sure there are places to improve, then you would've spent more than a few days and come to a more serious conclusion. That's my worry about you in this position. You're just not serious about it. You are a propaganda machine for the Trump administration. It is an incompetent review that you have completed. Well, actually, you didn't complete it. It sounds like you never even started it. You didn't interview anybody.

(02:28:29)
You've never run an agency like this. You're a former journalist, apparently, allegedly. Although I don't trust your journalistic integrity when you hold up a single picture of a newsroom at a single moment in time and think that reveals anything. It reveals nothing. It's evidence of nothing. I don't know if they all just went to lunch. Who knows what that's a picture of?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:28:55):

Have you ever worked in a newsroom?

Representative Dean (02:28:57):

I've been to many newsrooms. Your journalistic integrity is shot. My son has an expression that he taught me years ago, that trust and credibility is gained in drops and poured out in buckets. Sadly, you have poured out that trust and credibility over years. But I see why Mr. Trump put you in this position. He doesn't want a free press. He doesn't want Americans, soldiers across this globe hearing the facts of what's going on. He doesn't want our adversaries to actually know what's going on. Look at what we're up to today. We can't get the facts. We can't even get a briefing on an attack by the United States using our exquisite military expertise from the President of the United States and those who put it forward. We can't get at the facts. All we're getting is propaganda. Totally obliterated the nuclear program of Iran.

(02:29:59)
We have to rely upon that as our news source? I'll be going to a skiff to try to get whatever little information we can. But honest to goodness, I have no question for you because you don't have any credibility. You have misled this other side of the aisle with some notion of reform. When you even say you don't want reform, you just want to collapse the doggone thing. You've fired people. You let people go. You misled this committee, worrying about who was vetting the hires. You didn't bother to say that in 2018 to 2021 the new hires were vetted by DOD. You've misled this committee. You're misleading America. You did it in your own state through your own elections. You did it with the presidential election. You've lost your credibility. You've poured it out in buckets and I yield the remainder of my time.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:31:03):

Any way I can respond to some of that?

Representative Dean (02:31:05):

I did not.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:31:08):

I can? Okay, well let's start. I agree that we have an exquisite military. I've never heard it referred to by that. And I think that you would've been fighting and hopefully you were fighting, Representative, when our military were being summarily fired because they didn't want to get an experimental shot. So hopefully you were sitting in that chair standing up for the men and women in our military being fired from the military. And hopefully you are opposed to the CCP propaganda that has snuck in to the VOA, but I'm not sure if you are. And you talk about me being upset that we're hiring foreign nationals.

Representative Dean (02:31:50):

Madam Chairwoman, I really am not asking for any response, so I would ask that this stop. I don't know whose time she is on.

Representative Kim (02:32:02):

Thank you very much. I now recognize myself to ask questions and I want to thank the committee chairman best and ranking member of this committee for holding today's hearing. And I want to thank you Ms. Lake for joining us today as we work to reform USAGM to its intended purpose as a national security tool. And I know some of my colleagues have already mentioned this as well, but these past few days the world has been watching the Israel-Iran conflict. And as Iranian audiences are desperate for critical information, the digital content from VOA's Radio Farda has surged with noteworthy spikes in VOA ship. Meanwhile, North Korea's state-run newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun, condemned the United States for the recent US strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Without reporting from the outside world through VOA and RFA, most North Korean civilians only see the United States as the bad guy with no factual background or understanding of the risk of the nuclear development.

(02:33:15)
So I worry about the US government's ability to win in the information domain during the next crisis, which could be just around the corner. For example, you know Taiwan's trade crisis. Is the United States able to rapidly disseminate information and counter Chinese disinformation without entities like RFA who have had a long-standing and unique presence in the region? I acknowledge that we need accountability and transparency within USAGM and among the grantee organizations, but we need to accomplish this with measured congressional review and reform that does not unintentionally seed ground to our adversaries. So let me ask you first line of questioning related to retaining the critical functions of VOA. With the recent events in the Middle East, we saw a last-minute scramble to bring back VOA Farsi-speaking staff who are on administrative leave.

(02:34:21)
Meanwhile, dramatic cuts to RFE, RL, Radio Liberty have crippled the Persian language service to Radio Farda. The USAGM reorganization terminated over 1,400 positions at Voice of America and spurred massive layoffs at the grantee organizations. So did you and your team have any concerns about how these terminations would severely limit the US government's ability to support the flow of accurate information abroad? Could you explain why or why not?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:34:58):

I don't think it will limit our ability to tell America's story abroad. And we are doing that. And you said scramble to bring people in. I wouldn't say scramble. I think when breaking news happens, if you've been in a newsroom, there's a much … You could call it scrambling, if you choose, but basically when breaking news happens, it's all hands on deck. And these professionals came back in and they're still with us and they're still employed and they got to work, as you do in a newsroom. Especially when news happens and it's not at their normal time where they would normally be in. You come into the newsroom and you cover the story and that's what we're going to do. We can do it with a smaller staff. This newsroom should have been downsized a long time ago, but because it's the federal government and they don't believe in downsizing at all, it hasn't happened. It's over too many people were working in the newsroom and we've shrunk that down in order to meet the president's statutory, his requirement to bring it into statutory minimum.

Representative Kim (02:35:54):

Okay, let me get to the next line of question regarding the grantees then. The RFA has been vital in countering the Chinese Communist Party's propaganda. Whether it was exposing the CCP's ridiculous attempts to blame the US for the COVID-19 pandemic, or uncovering the Uyghur genocide to the world that left RFA Uyghur service reporters and their families vulnerable to CCP harassment. USAGM's journalists have spent decades building credibility and trust with audiences that have grown dramatically in recent decades. With the reorganization, however, the grantees have had to let go of a significant portion of their employees and are unable to effectively fulfill their mission. So what strategy can you explain to us do you have in place to ensure we preserve the respective missions, the talents, the functions, and on the ground expertise of the grantee organizations?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:36:54):

Well, a lot of what the grantees are doing was duplicitous of what we're doing at VOA. Why do we need RFA to be doing a Mandarin news service when we at VOA are doing Mandarin? Why do we need to have taxpayers pay for that? And also, we don't have a current grant agreement. We're working to get one and they have not been cooperative. The grant agreement that was in place that the Biden administration put in place with these folks had no transparency and we don't have a current approved financial plan from these grantees either. And then they choose to sue us. They choose to sue us in the middle of this.

Representative Kim (02:37:32):

My understanding, the VOA operation is pretty much gone. No people there.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:37:36):

No, it's not gone. We're doing what is statutorily required, the statutory minimum. President Trump put forth in his executive order to bring this agency to its statutory minimum functions and Mandarin happens to be one of those statutorily required languages. And we have a staff. I believe we have about 15 people we will be staffing for our Mandarin coverage. And you mentioned if something were to happen, a big news story were to break, we would surge people over. This is how newsrooms operate. For example, in an American newsroom, when the elections happen, you surge people in to cover. You put more reporters on covering the elections because it's a big story. And then when there aren't elections, you have fewer people covering elections. When there's an earthquake, you surge people over. We have pulled back $17.3 million from the grantees. We're going to use that money to surge operations for news coverage when need be.

Representative Kim (02:38:34):

Well, I agree that we have to have efficient operations, but the point that I'm trying to make is that we have let go of journalists that have spent decades building their credibility and trust with our audiences that are listening and relying on RFA, RFE, RL. I just want to make sure that those talents are not eliminated and we are able to bring them back as soon as possible. And again …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:39:02):

Well, we're paying RFA. We've paid them. I mean, I don't know what they're doing with their money. I do know they're suing us with their money. I'm not sure what they're doing. We're paying RFA. If they're firing their workers, then that's on them, but this agency spends $950 million. $400 million is going to these grantees and we paid them.

Representative Kim (02:39:22):

In the interest of time, I know we're way over time. I do want to recognize Mr. Johnson. Rep Johnson from Texas. Ms. Johnson. I'm sorry.

Representative Johnson (02:39:32):

Thank you so much, Madam Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity, Ms. Lake.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:39:37):

Hi.

Representative Johnson (02:39:38):

So I want to address a couple things that was just recently said. Representative Burchett was trying to imply with his questioning of you that Voice of America is a relic. I just looked it up and 354 million people listen to it every week. So I would hardly qualify or classify that as a relic and …

Ms. Kari Lake (02:39:58):

Those are government numbers and I don't trust those

Ms. Kari Lake (02:40:00):

… numbers.

Speaker 9 (02:40:00):

Well, that's a sad state of affairs, when you don't trust the government that you're representing and that you're working for and an agency that you're in charge of. That's a pathetic statement to tell the American people, that you don't trust the government that you are leading. So next-

Ms. Kari Lake (02:40:13):

Most American people don't trust this government.

Speaker 9 (02:40:15):

This is my time. And Representative Kim, I share your concerns. I was comforted to hear that she expressed concerns to you, that, quote, I wrote it down, "She worries about the US ability to win the information war going forward." And I share that concern. I'm very concerned that we are ceding ground. In her own statement, she said that the voice of America is vital in contradicting the CCP China propaganda, and I completely concur with her.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:40:43):

But it's sharing CCP propaganda.

Speaker 9 (02:40:45):

No, we are countering their propaganda. So I have some questions. I just want to make sure that I have the record correct, that I have your statements correct. You have called the Voice of America anti-American propaganda, correct? And I think you're implying that today. Is that right?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:41:03):

They have put forth propaganda from other countries, sadly. I'm very sad about that.

Speaker 9 (02:41:08):

And you do consider Voice of America to be a biased agency, is that correct?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:41:13):

They have been, yes.

Speaker 9 (02:41:14):

And you agree that the characterization of Voice of America's track record is unsalvageable and appalling. Is that correct?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:41:22):

Pardon me?

Speaker 9 (02:41:23):

You think that the Voice of America's track record is unsalvageable, correct?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:41:28):

I think that this agency, US Agency for Global Media, is unsalvageable, that we can pull parts that are decent and we could work with, and that would be VOA.

Speaker 9 (02:41:37):

The thing that's so stunning is that this is an exact set of messaging put out by the Chinese, that VOA is a frontline propaganda tool, VOA is widely recognized as Washington's carefully crafted propaganda machine. This is Chinese propaganda that you are restating as an American official.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:41:58):

You're right. VOA is putting out Chinese propaganda.

Speaker 9 (02:41:59):

Excuse me. But that is absolutely outrageous, that what is happening now is that the Trump administration has gone from 71 employees to two. 71 to two of the people running Voice of America in China.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:42:17):

That's not true.

Speaker 9 (02:42:18):

And now we have a situation where you are essentially parroting the Chinese propaganda. It's for the dismantling of Voice of America. So what do we have? We have the Trump administration cutting all service personnel of this agency. We have the head of the Trump administration who's over this agency parroting Chinese propaganda. And all we are doing is ceding America's critical voice. We are the counterbalance in the world of democracy against China, against North Korea, against Russia, the Americans, the United States government.

(02:42:51)
We are the voice. We are the voice of democracy. We are the voice that the world relies on for accurate information, just as Representative Kim implied, in Iran. A member of the opposing party. This is Republican and a Democrat agreeing that the Voice of America is critical and you are gutting it, dismantling. If you had concerns, why don't you just fire the people who are giving information you don't agree with and hire some others? Why are you just throwing the entire agency out, ceding America's role in the world of information to the Chinese, our enemy of disinformation?

(02:43:34)
We have had multiple hearings of this committee, multiple, being very concerned over propaganda and disinformation that the Chinese are propagating in our country and throughout the world. And instead of stepping it up, and fighting harder, and bringing American might to the fight and the truth of what we believe in, we're saying, "Take it. You can have it all. We're just going to go away because we don't believe what we're doing anymore."

(02:44:02)
And that is absolutely outrageous. We are ceding all of our soft power in the world to our adversaries because the Trump administration doesn't believe in accurate truth. And I just cannot for the life of me figure out why it is that you want to do it. It's just unconscionable to me. And unfortunately, I'm out of time. I yield back.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:44:27):

Maybe you should run for president. Because president-

Speaker 9 (02:44:30):

I'm a member of Congress, and I'm very happy where I am. Thank you.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:44:32):

Okay. Well, because the president won with an overwhelming mandate, and the president has the right to put forth an executive order, and I have the duty to effectuate that executive order, and I'm doing that.

Speaker 9 (02:44:45):

We have roles and responsibility of oversight as members of Congress, and that is exactly what we're doing.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:44:49):

Do you have a responsibility to the American taxpayer?

Speaker 9 (02:44:51):

And I don't think the president campaigned to cede all of American propaganda, all of American information to the Chinese. I don't think that that is exactly what he ran on. I don't think that's what the American people voted for.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:44:58):

But we're going to stop the Chinese propaganda from being aired on Voice of America.

Speaker 9 (02:45:00):

So I disagree with you completely.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:45:03):

I can see that.

Speaker 9 (02:45:03):

I guess my time is up. So thank you.

Chairman Mast (02:45:08):

Chair now recognizes Representative Biggs.

Rep Biggs (02:45:10):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. Lake, thank you. I appreciate your testimony. It's become clear that one of our most urgent concerns is how our own taxpayer-funded outlets like USAGM, VOA, OCB, and their grantees appear to be churning out spreading content that doesn't just look down on America but actively works against our national security and vital interest. This is a betrayal. And if it's happening, it's not just problematic, but it's a deep-rooted corruption that needs to be exposed and rooted out. In light of this, I have just a few questions. Are you aware of any instances where VOA or its grantees have misled their audience or provided false information?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:46:11):

There are a lot of cases where that has happened. I mean, if you just look at the political bias, I would say that you're misleading… I'm going to throw one case out because people will remember this video. And it was of Robert De Niro, the actor, who has really seemed to go off the deep end lately, putting out a rant against the president. And he called him all kinds of things, a dog, awful things, said he wanted to punch him in the face. That video was played on VOA Ukraine for the audiences in Ukraine to see, to make them believe that that was the sentiment of the American people.

(02:46:49)
When Joe Biden literally failed and practically fell on his face in the debate, when all of a sudden the Democrats realized, "Okay, we got a problem here and we're going to have to acknowledge that Joe Biden has serious cognitive problems," VOA wouldn't even report that. They made it sound like his debate was fine. Only days later did they come in and try to make up ground.

(02:47:11)
You talk about the October 7th terrorist attack in Israel, refusing to call that a terrorist attack, refusing to call the terrorists who inflicted that kind of carnage on Israel terrorists. I could go on and on. But you look at the waste that they have perpetuated against the American people, the $850,000 spent on a New York concert. Why are we spending money that's meant for putting our American message out on a concert in New York? Why are we doing that?

(02:47:41)
When I first got in, one of the first things that came across my email was a complaint that we had a cross-dressing man reporting to VOA to the Pakistan audience. Why are we putting a cross-dressing man on the air to tell America's story in Pakistan? We got to get things right. This is insane. It's completely out of control. And the chairman said, I think, I can't remember the exact figure, I think he said the iHeart Radio has a budget of about 80 or 90 million. This is a nearly billion dollar budget and we're putting out, in many cases, schlock, something that's unwatchable, and worse yet, that's un-American, pro-CCP, that is supporting our enemies. It's unconscionable that we would do that.

Rep Biggs (02:48:28):

I would agree with that, and so would my district. And moving on, have you encountered any situations where VOA or its grantees have promoted or reported anti-American sentiment? And I think you just touched on that briefly.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:48:44):

I did. And I'm happy to pull more. If you don't mind, I'd be happy to pull more examples of that and we can submit it to you later.

Rep Biggs (02:48:52):

Okay. And just in looking at it from a different perspective, are you aware of any cases where VOA or its grantees have promoted propaganda from an adversarial nation?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:49:05):

Yes, and I think I've made that clear today. We have CCP influence where literally folks over at the Chinese embassy are telling the folks at VOA how to cover China. That's one example.

Rep Biggs (02:49:22):

Those are very concerning. Thank you very much for your response. And I yield back.

Chairman Mast (02:49:29):

Chair now recognizes Representative Sherman.

Rep Sherman (02:49:32):

Ms. Lake, over and over and over again, Russian propagandists tell us, "You can't trust the VOA. They're a phony organization. They tell a lot of lies." And you are here today repeating that Russia propaganda point. Again and again and again, Chinese government agents tell their people, "Do not believe the Voice of America. They tell lies." And you are here repeating that Chinese propaganda point.

(02:50:03)
What's particularly illustrative is my colleague said, you have three to 400 million listeners per week worldwide, and you said, "You can't trust that number. It comes from the government." That number is quite consistent with the numbers issued by the Trump administration in 2017 and 2018. Everybody in this room knows that I don't trust Donald Trump. Now they know you don't trust Donald Trump, having administered that agency for four years issues numbers as to how many listeners they have, and you say don't trust them.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:50:42):

That's because there wasn't-

Rep Sherman (02:50:44):

Excuse me. It's my time. Ms. Lake. Do you know the… You know the rules here. Follow the rules. Now, you had your opening statement. This is my five minutes. Mr. Putin wants to weaken America. There are those in America who want to help him. Those who want to help Putin know that they can't just scuttle an American aircraft carrier, so they're trying to do something that is far more dangerous to our role in the world and our national security, and that is to scuttle our international broadcasting. Now, we have a bipartisan Armenian caucus, two chairs, two co-chairs. You have eliminated all Armenian language broadcasting. Did you consult with any of the chairs or co-chairs of the Armenian caucus in Congress before you cut off that broadcasting? That's a yes or no question.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:51:37):

Nope.

Rep Sherman (02:51:40):

That's how decisions are made. And I'm sure you didn't consult with the US ambassador in Yerevan either. I'd like unanimous consent to put in the record a report from the US Office of Special Counsel detailing the terrible administration of USAGM during the latter months of the Trump administration. I'll point out that Ms. Lake tells us how terrible it is that she can't get information. You know who really needs information? Congress. You know who's sitting behind you? Mr. Michael Pack, the former, under Trump, director, same job you have, who we had to try to subpoena to come here and give Congress information, and we got stonewalled.

(02:52:29)
But had we had Mr. Pack here, in your testimony you talk about how there's a waste, and we would've detailed all the waste of your Trump appointed predecessor and how the $1.6 million of personnel claims that you cite occurred chiefly under the Trump administration. So you're here basically saying that we can't have international broadcasting because you can't run it. The idea that you say, "Well, China is telling Voice of America how to broadcast." Of course you try to interview Chinese diplomats. You interview members of Congress. That does not mean… I tell the LA Times what they should do all the time. They tend not to listen. Every journalist is given advice by everybody in the world all the time.

(02:53:29)
Now, I think Ms. Kim did a good job of illustrating the problems with closing down our broadcasting efforts. Our soft power is of critical importance. And I think Putin would be very happy. Now, as I pointed out, there are many settlements due to lawbreaking and violations that you cite. And of course, they occurred back in 2020, under Mr. Pack. No wonder he refused the subpoena. No wonder he wouldn't testify here. I will give you credit. You're here. And you're here defending the indefensible, which is that America should be silent on the world stage. Our broad ability, bombs are powerful, truth is more powerful. Taking the bombs away from our military would be bad. Taking truth away from our public diplomacy efforts is worse. I yield back.

Rep Biggs (02:54:39):

I now recognize my colleague from Arizona, Congressman Hamadeh.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:54:48):

Thank you, Chairwoman. I want to thank Chairman Mast for allowing me to wave into this committee. And Ms. Lake… It's hard to say Ms. Lake. I know you as Kari, and so does everybody in Arizona.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:54:57):

You can call me Kari.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:54:57):

So does everybody in Arizona. And Kari, for everything you had to endure in this committee hearing, especially not just here, but what you had to endure in 2022, and I know you're a fighter for the truth. We all know what happened with our elections in 2020 and 2022, and the tentacles of the Communist Chinese Party, which has just been reported by John Solomon and how they were trying to impact the 2020 election. I know FBI director Kash Patel is trying to get to the bottom of it.

(02:55:25)
It's scary that they've infiltrated so many aspects of our government and especially the Voice of America. And right here in Congress, I don't know if you knew this, but the China Daily newspaper was actually being distributed all across Congress and every single office. And I helped lead the charge to ban the China Daily newspaper from being distributed in the halls of Congress, which I'm proud of. But it concerns me that the Chinese have infiltrated the Voice of America and they were having meetings at the embassy. Can you expand on what access did the Communist Chinese have within Voice of America?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:55:58):

Well, they have more say, this is sad, over, editorially, what VOA puts out than someone like me, who's been charged with helping to oversee this agency because of an editorial firewall. Key lead management and leadership at US Agency for Global Media cannot focus in or tell the folks what they should be covering at Voice of America. Unfortunately, the CCP can. And I read this a little bit earlier, and I don't know if I should read it again, but they literally were attending meetings at the Chinese Embassy in Washington DC.

(02:56:38)
And this is a report that I find rather shocking, and I mentioned it. Starting in the first decade of 2000, the Chinese Embassy in Washington DC and the leadership of VOA's Mandarin service began an annual meeting to allow embassy officials to voice their opinions about VOA's content. They even convinced the former leadership during Biden's administration to cut short an interview. They wanted the whole thing canceled. They convinced VOA leadership to cut short an interview with a whistleblower who was critical of the CCP.

(02:57:09)
And this just continues. This is an article that came out, I believe it was in March, VOA's senior executives frequently traveled to China, attending state-sponsored events and meeting with Chinese Embassy officials. These meetings weren't casual diplomatic exchanges. They involved soliciting feedback on VOA's programming. Congressman Hamadeh, if VOA decided to run a hit piece on you and it was full of lies and they called you and told you they were going to run that, and you wanted to say, "Hey, let's clear this up because that's not true. This isn't true, and I suggest you don't run the story," they could sue you for a firewall violation. But yet, a CCP official can tell them how to run the news.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:57:53):

It's very dangerous. And we know how corrupt some of these courts are, and I know that there is a big challenge right now trying to stop the authority that you have and trying to reform the VOA. And you got to win this battle, because President Trump needs this in order to make America great again.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:58:08):

Apparently there are judges who want to run an agency rather than be judges. And my suggestion to those judges, if they really want to run an agency, go to USAjobs.gov and apply for a job.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:58:21):

Well, we know many of them are politicians in black robes. Kari, I want to talk about after President Trump's successful strike on the Iranian nuclear facilities, he put out a post on X that had it translated his speech in Farsi. So you were able to do that with the statutory minimums within the VOA?

Ms. Kari Lake (02:58:39):

Yes, we were. We were. And it wasn't a scramble, as many said. It was typical breaking news, where you jump in when news happens. And our team, our Persian team were able to jump in when news broke, when the bombs hit, and we were in place ready to go when President Trump delivered his historic address. We had it broadcast on the air and digitally as well, online, and it was translated simultaneously in Farsi. Even though some people said we didn't do that, we in fact did. There's a lot of lies out there, and unfortunately some of the Democrats in this room believe the lies or they know their lies and they want to repeat them, but we were live on the air. That is, I think, what I heard from one of the members on our team, the most people saw that tweet than any other tweet that we've ever done on VOA Farsi.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:59:31):

Incredible. Well, thank you, Ms. Lake, for being here and thank you for always fighting for the truth. In many ways, I wouldn't be here in Congress without your help and your support. So thank you again, Kari.

Ms. Kari Lake (02:59:40):

Thank you.

Congressman Hamadeh (02:59:41):

I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Mast (02:59:43):

Gentleman yields back. I want to thank you, Ms. Lake, for your testimony today. At this point, we're going to do closing statements. I think we covered a lot of ground here today. You spoke about a number of different concerning things, from what's going on with a lawfare, to foreign nationals being hired and given access and not actually being vetted, to facilities being empty and not used, and individuals that have worked for our adversaries, even though they were supposed to be expressing the sentiments of America. It's sad that it was not bipartisan to bring up those issues, but only to attack you. I do want to give the minority side an opportunity to offer any closing statement, because maybe they want to bring it up now.

Ms. Kari Lake (03:00:34):

We cleared the room.

Chairman Mast (03:00:38):

I don't want them to say I didn't give them a chance, because that'll happen later. I guess the minority doesn't have anything else that they want to say. Ms. Lake, for my closing statement, I'm going to give you the opportunity to take my time and express any other sentiments that you feel like you didn't have the opportunity to express, any other information that you'd like to put out, and then we'll close down this hearing.

Ms. Kari Lake (03:01:04):

Well, I want to thank you, Chairman Mast, for allowing me to come and speak about the Voice of America, US Agency for Global Media. America has an incredible story to tell. Unfortunately it hasn't been told properly or positively on Voice of America for a long time. And I'd like to see that change. We have so much that we should be telling the world, and we shouldn't be putting CCP propaganda, Russian propaganda, Iranian regime propaganda on our airwaves that the taxpayers are paying for.

(03:01:33)
This is nearly a billion-dollar agency. We know for a fact money is being wasted. We know that the content going out is not supportive of this great country, yet the great people of this country are being forced to pay for it. And thankfully, President Trump has come into office and said, "I want to make sure we scale back this out-of-control bloat in the federal bureaucracy."

(03:01:53)
And I don't take pleasure in people losing their jobs. But I will tell you, in the media landscape, the trends have been newsrooms are getting smaller. We don't need as many people. Where it used to take a team of six or seven to get a story out and a live shot, one person can do that now. I mean, I mentioned Joe Rogan. He reaches hundreds of millions of people with each of his podcasts and he doesn't have a staff of 1,100 or 1,200 people doing that.

(03:02:21)
Unfortunately, in the government, they don't like the word modernize and they haven't modernized in this agency. The 15,000 people in media have lost their jobs. In 2024, 15,000 broadcast media employees lost their jobs due to downsizing. We can't continue to operate at the level that we're continuing at. And President Trump has asked us to bring this agency down to its statutory minimum, and he's calling for eliminating the agency starting in the fiscal year 2026, which begins in October. And I'm going to work to effectuate that. I could be selfish and say I don't want to end an agency because I'm working in it. I'm happy to do what the president has asked us to do. We need to start scaling back some of the waste.

(03:03:09)
And I do think it's wasteful to spend money at an agency that's supposed to be telling America's story, that is not telling America's story. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that we stop running CCP propaganda, that we start putting the true story of America forward as much as I can in the coming months. So thank you so much for giving us an opportunity. And I wanted to be respectful to everybody. Unfortunately, I didn't think that some of the questions really came forth to prod and find out what's happening and how we can make it better. But hopefully I was able to provide some answers.

Chairman Mast (03:03:43):

We appreciate your testimony today. And I would simply add to that, we can accomplish today with any one given phone what it used to take a team of people to do, a camera person with a tripod and a 20 pound camera, and a reporter, and somebody holding a microphone, and a news truck to broadcast that. Any one of us and any individual across the globe can now conduct that with something that most of us carry in our pocket. That's the difference in the world today as to just a decade ago.

Ms. Kari Lake (03:04:10):

That's right.

Chairman Mast (03:04:10):

In that, I would say this, pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five legislative days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record, subject to length, limitations without objection. This committee stands adjourned.

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