House FBI Oversight Hearing Part Two

Speaker 1 (00:00):

(silence)

Mr. Chairman (01:07:44):

We will come to order without objection. The chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on Oversight of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This is the first occasion for the committee to get back together since the tragic death of Charlie Kirk. Charlie was a good man, a happy warrior who fought for principles and values I think make our country special, and certainly was a strong proponent of defending the First Amendment, something this committee cares deeply about. I said this over the weekend. I think Charlie lived that scripture verse 2 Timothy 4:7, "Fight the good fight, finish the course, keep the faith." Charlie certainly lived that and he did it with a smile on his face. And so the tragic killing happened a week ago while we were in markup here in the committee. And I know everyone, I know that our witness was a friend of Charlie's, and I know many people in the diaspora as well. So I know we're all praying for Charlie's family. And I would extend a moment to the ranking member, if you wanted to say something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for saying that. The whole country reacted with horror and shock to the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk in cold blood. And there is never any warrant for political violence in America. And just as we all recoiled together at the shocking assassination of Melissa Hortman and others who died in that Minnesota attack, we all stand together categorically against political violence in America and determined to end these cycles of political violence that have traumatized the country.

Mr. Chairman (01:09:40):

Well said. Chair now recognize the gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Schmidt, to lead us all in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Participants (01:09:46):

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation

Participants (01:10:00):

… under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Jim Jordan (01:10:08):

As a customary, we will begin with opening statements. Five weeks ago, because of the work of Director Patel, we learned that the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee and current United States senator leaked classified information. We learned this because a whistleblower came forward, whistleblower with 23 years experience in the intelligence community. A Democrat staffer on the committee said this: they were pressured to leak classified information, which sort of raises the obvious question. Why would the head of the Intelligence Committee, the chair of that committee, who's supposed to be guarding our secrets, why would he be encouraging the leaking of classified information? Whistleblower told us that answer as well. The leaked information, false information was going to be used to indict President Trump.

(01:10:57)
Now, the former chairman wasn't the only person leaking information. Jim Comey was also sharing things he wasn't supposed to share. Again, don't take my word for it. The inspector general told us this. In his report, he said, "James Comey violated FBI policy by disclosing classified information." And what was Comey's motive? Same as the senator from California: to sabotage and undermine President Trump's first term. We know that Mr. Comey has not been shy about what his objective was. In fact, four months ago he told us, remember this? 8647, Jim Comey told us just four months ago. Now, how'd they do it? How did the former chair of the intel community, the former FBI director, and others in our government attempt to undermine President Trump's first term?

(01:11:53)
Seven weeks ago, because of the good work of the director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, we learned from another whistleblower, a second whistleblower, that in the closing days of the Obama administration, the intelligence community assessment was changed. On December 5th, 2016, they had one assessment. That assessment said Russia didn't try, or excuse me, did not impact the election vote count. There was a meeting at the White House on December 9th, 2016 where it was decided, "No, no, no, we're not going to have that. We're going to come up with a new one." And the new one said Russia was trying to influence election and did influence election, which just wasn't accurate. That new one is published on January 6th, 2017.

(01:12:36)
Let's just show you a few things that took place. I want to show you first this email from Admiral Rogers, the head of the NSA. You can see it was December 22nd, says to Jim, John, and Jim, Jim Clapper, John Brennan, Jim Comey. He says, "I asked my team if they've had sufficient access to the underlying intelligence, sufficient time to review that intelligence. On both points, my team raised concerned." Further states, "My folks aren't fully comfortable."

(01:13:10)
A few hours later, there's an email back to Admiral Rogers. This one is from Jim Clapper, and it says this, "It is essential that we be on the same page, and all of us are supportive of the report, in the highest tradition of 'that's our story, and we're sticking to it.' We may have to compromise on our normal modalities. This is one project that has to be a team sport. That's our story, and we're sticking to it." Compromise on normal modalities, that's a fancy way of saying, that's the government speak for, "We're going to have to change the rules. In fact, we're not going to follow our own rules." And that's exactly what they did to get the objective they wanted to undermine President Trump.

(01:13:58)
Now, how did it specifically take place? The whistleblower said that the government officials ignored concerns about discredited information. What was that discredited information? What was the discredited information that they ignored the concerns about? What did they use that discredit information? Of course, it was the dossier, the now famous Steele dossier that was paid for by the Clinton campaign when they hired the law firm Perkins Coie, who hired Fusion GPS, who hired the foreigner Christopher Steele, who wrote all this garbage and lies down. That what was used to change the intelligence community report. What happens next? What do Jim, John, and Jim do next? They go to Trump Tower on January 6th, 2017 to brief then President-elect Trump about the dossier. Again, the Clinton-financed, foreign-authored dossier, that the whistleblower knows is garbage and that they know is garbage.

(01:14:58)
And then there's one final step, one final step. Jim Comey leaves that meeting with the president and immediately leaks to the press that they briefed the president on the discredited information. They briefed the president on the dossier, and thereby giving it some credibility and creating the basis and the predicate for all they did to the president. They leaked false information. They leaked classified information. They used and leaked discredited information, and they didn't follow their own rules, all to sabotage President Trump's first term. But for this guy, Kash Patel, but for this guy, we would never have known this information. The good people of this great country would not have known what took place eight years ago when they were trying to undermine the guy elected by we the people. And I want to thank Attorney General Bondi. She set up a special strike force, a special team to look into this and see if there's any criminal liability that exists in what took place.

(01:15:58)
Now, in addition to getting the truth to the people, Director Patel is getting the bad guys off the street. He's moved agents out of Washington, got the focus off of politics here in D.C., and is instead putting bad guys behind bars. 21,000 violent criminals have been taken off the streets, which is 125% increase from the comparable period in the previous administration. He's rescued 4,000 kids. He's got 1,300 predators who's arrested. He's also ended the weaponization of the FBI. No more spying on parents at school board meetings. No more pre-dawn raids on pro-life Catholics. No more retaliation against whistleblowers. And he's given us information that Chris Wray didn't. Maybe said better, he's given us information that Chris Wray wouldn't.

(01:16:49)
Director Wray didn't tell us that there were 26 confidential human sources at the Capitol in January 6th, 2021, even though he was repeatedly asked about that by members of this committee. Director Wray didn't tell us that there were 17 of those confidential human sources who entered restricted space, four went in the Capitol. None of them were arrested. They weren't authorized to do that. They broke the law. None of them were arrested. Lots of Americans citizens were arrested, but the guys whose salary, excuse me, whose American tax dollars was used to pay these guys who broke the law, one was recommended for charging and was not charged.

(01:17:27)
Remember when Chris Wray told us that the Richmond field office memorandum on pro-life Catholics was just a one-off? Turns out he wasn't being square with the Senate either. Director Wray wasn't square with us. He told us that multiple other offices were involved in targeting the Catholics. We got that information from Director Patel. We learned from Director Patel that the FBI actually surveilled a priest, tried to get the priest to divulge information, break the priest's penitent relationship and confidence that exist. Director Patel is saving taxpayers' money. He's not going to build a new headquarters outside of D.C. He's going to keep the headquarters right here in the capital city. Saved Americans' money, saved the taxpayers' money. In eight months, in eight months, Director Patel has given us the facts, he's ended the weaponization at the FBI, he's taking bad guys off the streets, and he's saving taxpayers' money. But my guess is, the Democrats won't focus on all that good news. They'll focus on politics. They'll stick with Comey and Clapper and Brennan, and continue to try to undermine President Trump. I yield to the ranking member for an opening statement.

Jamie Raskin (01:18:40):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Director Patel. You and I have not had the opportunity to meet, and alas, you failed to respond to the eight oversight letters I've sent you over the last seven months. We do have a lot of questions piling up for you, but I want to start with a word of praise. The first FBI director was J. Edgar Hoover, who steadfastly refused to hire women, African Americans, and other minorities as agents. Although he was a closeted homosexual who lived in domestic partnership for decades with Clyde Tolson, he also participated in anti-gay crusades. He aggressively promoted what we would today call white Christian nationalism, and he would undoubtedly be turning over in his grave to see as one of his successors a first-generation Indian American and a proud Hindu. So I congratulate you on being a breakthrough in this sense and being a beneficiary of the civil rights movement that opened up the FBI and the federal workforce to lots of people who never would've been hired in its first decades.

(01:19:40)
Alas, you share J. Edgar Hoover's dangerous obsession with blind loyalty over professionalism and effective public policy. For Hoover, it was blind loyalty to him and keeping his secrets. For you, it's blind loyalty to Donald Trump and keeping his secrets. During your confirmation, it was widely noted on all sides that your primary qualification was your unwavering loyalty to Trump. Unlike other directors, you had no work experience at the FBI, but you had made over a thousand media and political appearances in support of Trump's campaign. Your Senate confirmation vote was 51 to 49, the closest in history, with your opponent's warning you were not qualified and had no interest in actually developing the qualifications for the job. I hoped that they were wrong. Alas, they were not.

(01:20:27)
While most other new FBI directors drew on their experience as FBI agents, you didn't have that. But you did write a picture book trilogy for children ages five and up based on your experience clashing with President Trump's political enemies. In your book, you describe your literary alter-ego, Kash the Knight, as a wacky, easily bored wizard carrying out King Donald's vengeance by driving his enemies out of the kingdom. In the books, King Donald is besieged by the evil Hillary Queenton, but saved in the end by Kash. Then Kash goes on to catch mules who are stealing the 2020 election for the great King Donald from Sleepy Joe. And then in the third book, Kash takes down the Dragon of the Jalapenos, nicknamed the DOJ.

(01:21:19)
Your supporters had hoped that you would graduate from imagining yourself a romantic fairytale knight to actually running America's premier federal law enforcement agency. Alas, just as we've learned how dangerous it is to put a science-denying anti-vaxxer in charge of our public health, we've learned how dangerous it is to name as director of the FBI a man who thinks of himself as a fairytale knight who keeps a fire-breathing dragon named DOJ at home to forcibly drive villains out of the kingdom.

(01:21:51)
When Charlie Kirk was assassinated, while his killer was still on the loose, you decided you didn't need to be at FBI headquarters in Washington to work with your team while the chaotic manhunt unfolded. You spent your evening dining in a swanky midtown Manhattan restaurant and tweeting out false information that the subject of the shooting was in custody, a statement you had to retract one hour later. Your performance was so disturbing that even the MAGA base was alarmed. Culture warrior Christopher Rufo, who just a few months ago sat in your chair as a Republican witness, observed that you performed terribly and he called for your ouster.

(01:22:32)
The FBI might be able to survive your delusions of grandeur and the explosively volatile temper that was on display yesterday in the Senate. But the intractable problem is that you are running the FBI not as a law enforcement agency charged with keeping the American people safe, but as a political enforcement agency working directly for the president's vengeance campaign.

(01:22:53)
Seven months in, it's impossible to overstate the destruction, chaos, and demoralization you've brought to the FBI and its workforce, and the resulting danger your actions have caused to our country. You've been systematically purging the FBI of its most experienced and qualified agents, division leaders and experts in counterterror, counterintelligence, and cybersecurity, precisely the people who have the expertise you lack and which the FBI and the country need. They've been expelled from the ranks of the bureau simply because they did their duty investigating crimes, including those committed by the mob that attacked the Capitol on January 6th, 2021, and beat the hell out of more than 140 police officers, or simply because you suspected them of being insufficiently loyal to Donald Trump.

(01:23:43)
You illegally sacked Brian Driscoll, the former acting director of the bureau and a decorated counterterrorism expert who worked at the FBI for nearly 20 years. According to Driscoll Driscoll, you told him your own job "depended on the removal of agents who worked on the cases against the president, regardless of whether the agents chose to work on those cases or not." You added, "The FBI tried to put the president in jail, and he hasn't forgotten it."

(01:24:11)
You forced out the leader of the Salt Lake City field office, Mehtab Syed, just weeks before Charlie Kirk's assassination, depriving the FBI of an experienced counterterrorism expert described by her colleagues as absolutely the best and legendary. She would've led the FBI's manhunt had she not been fired. When Trump decided that rounding up immigrants with no criminal records was more important than preventing crimes like human trafficking of women and girls, drug dealing, terrorism, and fraud, you ordered the 25 largest field offices to divert thousands of agents away from chasing down violent criminals, sex traffickers, fraudsters, and scammers to carry out this immigration crackdown.

(01:24:55)
Director Patel, you treated the men and women at FBI with disrespect and paranoia. You've assembled a roving band of freelancing henchmen within your office and charged them with conducting unauthorized investigations, targeting and harassing career FBI employees. Amazingly, you forced senior leadership to repeatedly take polygraph tests to prove their political loyalty and pushed out leaders who refused these demeaning exercises.

(01:25:24)
And now we're seeing one very clear reason why you want to build a political FBI: the Epstein files. You want an FBI blindly loyal to Trump, and to you as his enforcer, so you can continue your cover-up of a massive international sex trafficking ring with more than 1,000 victims, betraying all of the survivors of the sexual violence.

(01:25:48)
Before you got into this job, you called for full release of Epstein files, telling podcaster Benny Johnson that the only reason the list was not released by DOJ and FBI was "because of who's on that list." Upon your confirmation, you promised that "there will be no cover-ups, no missing documents, no stone left unturned, and anyone from the prior or current bureau who undermines this will be swiftly pursued."

(01:26:15)
This spring, you ordered hundreds of agents to pore over all the Epstein files but not to look for more clues about the money network or the network of human traffickers. You pulled these agents from their regular counterterrorism or drug trafficking duties to work around the clock, some of them sleeping at their desks, to conduct a frantic search to make sure Donald Trump's name and image were flagged and redacted wherever they appeared, whether an email, a text, a letter, an interview, a photograph or a video. In May, Attorney General Bondi reportedly told Trump that his name had indeed appeared multiple times throughout the Epstein files. And not long thereafter, in July, you and the attorney general released a memo claiming that " no further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted."

(01:27:04)
In a few short months, how did you go from being a crusader for accountability and transparency for the Epstein files to being a part of the conspiracy and cover-up? The answer is simple, you said it yourself: because of who's on that list.

(01:27:20)
Donald Trump's relationship with Epstein over the years is well-documented. A week ago, the Oversight Committee released Trump's disturbing birthday book note to Epstein, written over a drawing of a woman's naked body referring to a "wonderful secret." The Oversight Committee obtained the note from the Epstein estate, not from the FBI, raising questions again of whether the FBI has been withholding documents.

(01:27:45)
While you're unleashing the FBI to cater to Trump's desire to shut down the Epstein inquiry, the first nine months of the Trump presidency have seen a spate of political violence and domestic terror events. We saw deadly attacks on political figures on both the left and the right, the brutal assassination of Minnesota Democratic House Speaker Melissa Hortman and her husband, and the attempted murder of Democratic State Senator John Hoffman and his wife, who miraculously survived a combined 17 gunshots. We saw an arsonist set Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence on fire. And of course, last week, we saw the horrific cold-blooded assassination of Charlie Kirk in Utah that has shaken the nation.

(01:28:27)
One minute after Charlie Kirk was shot in the neck, a 16-year-old shooter in Evergreen, Colorado radicalized by white supremacist ideology online opened fire and critically wounded two other students at Evergreen High School. We've seen lethal antisemitic violence, including the murder of two young Israeli embassy staffers just blocks from the Capitol, and then the attack on a gathering of Jewish people in support of hostages held in Gaza in Bolivar in June. We've seen continued mass shootings at schools like the domestic terror incident at a Catholic school in Minneapolis last month, which killed two children and wounded 18 others. And in August, a man fired more than 500 bullets at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, killing a police officer who was a marine veteran and a father.

(01:29:14)
People like Melissa Hortman and Charlie Kirk should be able to participate in politics as elected officials or active citizens without being shot down in cold blood in the United States of America. People should also be able to go to elementary school, to middle school, to high school, to work, to the mall, and to church without being shot down in explosions of gun violence.

(01:29:38)
The important position at the FBI requires a leader who puts public safety and national security and the rule of law first. I'm afraid, Director Patel, you've given us reason to believe you've used the powers of the FBI to serve Donald Trump and his agenda of partisan retribution. You've broken your promise not to do that. You've betrayed Jeffrey Epstein's victims and survivors. You've turned your back on the career law enforcement officers of the FBI, and as a result, you've left all of us less safe than before. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Jim Jordan (01:30:15):

Gentlemen yields back. That opening statement may have been longer in any book director's ever written or anyone else has written. Without objection, all of the opening statements will be included in the record. We will now introduce today's witness.

(01:30:24)
Mr. Patel has been the director of the FBI since February of 2025. He previously served as chief of staff at the Department of Defense, deputy director of National Intelligence with the National Security Council, and also as a congressional staffer, as a federal prosecutor, where he focused on national security cases. He also worked as a public defender in the State of Florida. We welcome our witness, appreciate his work, and thank him for appearing here today.

(01:30:48)
We will begin by swearing you in. Director, would you please stand, raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?

Kash Patel (01:31:02):

I do.

Jim Jordan (01:31:03):

Let the record reflect that the witness has answered in the affirmative. You can be seated as you are. You've been through this yesterday. Did a fine job. Please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety accordingly. We ask that you summarize your testimony. Director, you may begin.

Kash Patel (01:31:20):

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Raskin, and members of the committee. I want to begin today by discussing the appalling assassination of Charlie Kirk. It's important for this FBI to be transparent without jeopardizing our investigations, so a little bit of timeline is important. Charlie Kirk was unfortunately assassinated on September 10th. We immediately the next day released images early in the day, in local time in Utah, to start the public partnership in our manhunt for the assassin and culprits. At approximately 5:00 PM local time, I arrived on the ground and walked the crime scene myself. We flew multiple FBI assets in and out to process DNA simultaneously while bringing in evidence response technicians, hostage rescue teams, and other experts to assist state and local law enforcement with their investigation.

(01:32:03)
At 8:00 PM local on September 11th, the FBI collected and populated and promulgated at a press conference a video of the suspect on the grounds. We also released enhanced images. Due to that release that I directed and ordered, the suspect involved was apprehended and in custody at 10:00 PM local time. That's less than two hours after we did the video release and the photo release. So within 33 hours, that individual suspect was in custody. His family, who has since been interrogated, specifically stated to FBI interrogators that because of the video that the FBI released at my direction and because of the photographs that they released, they identified their son. They confronted their son when he swung by their home, and that's what led to his apprehension. We are still, the FBI, has that investigation ongoing, and it continues to be ongoing. I want to thank the State of Utah and the state and local authorities there, and I also want to thank the attorney general, President Trump for directing resources to allow us to conduct that investigation as we have.

(01:33:04)
Under this administration, the FBI has arrested more than 23,000 violent criminals. 23,000 in seven months. That's twice as many year to date last year. We've taken over 6,000 firearms off the streets. 6,000 guns are no longer in the hands of criminals in seven months. We've identified and found and located 4,700 child victims. That is a 35% increase year to date last year. We have arrested 1,500 child predators. That is a 10% increase year to date last year in just seven months. We've assisted our partners with countless counterterrorism operations around the world. We've captured, at the FBI, four of the most top 10 wanted fugitives in the world in seven months. To put that in perspective, that's as many as my predecessor nabbed in the entirety of the Biden administration. We got four, we got more coming.

(01:33:58)
On top of that, in two weeks, thanks to the help of the CIA, we collected and captured one of the individuals responsible for the horrific Abbey Gate bombing that led to the murder of 13 service members. We did that in two weeks. They didn't do it in the four years of the entire prior administration. Nationwide, we've been executing our Operation Summer Heat, the FBI's national focus on targeting violent crime based on intelligence-driven operations. Ask the citizens of Seattle, Miami, Memphis, Charlotte, Chicago, New Orleans. To specifically highlight New Orleans and Nashville, there has been a 250% increase in violent crime arrest in those cities alone, and other mid-major cities that I've just listed. In just a few short months, we have already unleashed a thousand FBI personnel across this country. Every single state across this country is getting a plus up. This is a fiction that the FBI is short or that we are compromising the men and women in the field. They do not need to be in Washington D.C., so we're sending them into the field to each and every one of your states. Because of that, crime is at an all-time low. We had to do it because of the explosion of crime. Maybe the most important stat for Americans to realize, in just seven months, we are on track to produce the lowest murder rate in modern U.S. history by double digits. Those are results not of mine. Those are results of the men and women of the FBI. If you want to criticize me, bring it on, but do not attack the brave leaders in the field.

(01:35:32)
We are also working 24/7/365 on the opioid epidemic that is killing more than hundreds of thousands of people a year. We have seized 1,600 kilograms of fentanyl off the streets so far in seven months. Year to date, 25% increase. To put that in perspective, that's enough to kill a third of the American population, 120 million Americans. A hundred thousand kilograms of cocaine and meth gone, off the streets.

(01:35:58)
Earlier this year, I highlighted in Cincinnati, Ohio how we're getting creative to chase down those that were willing to do harm to our citizens, not just by striking at the heart of the fentanyl producers, but the fentanyl precursor companies in China. And we indicted for the first time multiple companies and individuals not just in America but in Mainland China that are producing the ingredients that produce and make fentanyl that kill our children. And we are going to keep going.

(01:36:23)
Counterterrorism works, cyber attacks, and foreign adversaries are something the FBI must never sleep on, and we are not sleeping. In the counterintelligence space alone, this year, year to date, 30% increase in counterintelligence arrests from the DPRK, Russia, Iran, and China. And I want the American people to know, in this setting, there's a lot of work that the brave men and women FBI are doing we just can't get into, but they don't stop.

(01:36:45)
Our cyber threats, ransomware attacks, those harming our children online, we have nearly a 20% increase in indictments and arrests in seven months alone this year. We're going after those that harm our malware, infrastructure systems, telecom systems, and energy structure. Combating Salt and Volt Typhoons are just a little bit of the examples we're doing. Maybe most importantly under the counterterrorism and domestic terrorism umbrella are nihilist extremist and those that label themselves 764 who wish to go online and convince children to maim and mutilate themselves and commit suicide. And we are producing record numbers of arrests under that umbrella organization. We even stopped an individual in the 764 network who wanted to conspire to kill an adolescent girl. He's now in custody.

(01:37:33)
Transparency remains one of my main priorities at the FBI, and this is what I've done in my seven months at the helm. We've produced more than 33,000 pages of documents to Congress to a variety of committees, including, I believe, 7,500 to this committee alone if memory serves me correct. To put the 33,000 in perspective, my predecessor in seven years produced 13,000 pages in total to the United States Congress. His predecessor in four years produced 3,000 pages in total. I repeat, I have produced 33,000 pages in seven years to this congress and will continue to do so. I'm dedicated to restoring the trust and the mission and the integrity of the FBI, and we cannot do so without congressional oversight, and I promise you I will continue to do so.

(01:38:18)
On the Epstein case, the original sin on the Epstein case was how it was handled by Mr. Acosta when he first brought the case in 2006, '07, and '08. The original case had a very limited search warrant, had a very limited search window, had a very limited investigative window. I was not there when those search warrants and that investigation was launched. I would not have done it that way. They were limited to only three to four years of investigations from '97 to approximately 2001 and 2002 to 2005.

(01:38:47)
Mr. Acosta allowed Mr. Epstein to enter into a plea agreement where he served weekend jails for trafficking minor women. He also was allowed to relieve jail to go home on the weekends. Plus, he allowed a non-prosecution agreement to be signed as part of that plea deal, prohibiting future investigations from that prosecution and from that evidence, and prohibiting the collection of further material. That is the original sin. We are working with Congress to produce more than any administration ever has material on Epstein, and I welcome the challenge to tell us that we are not being as transparent as the law allows. We even went to court and asked the judges to lift those prosecutorial agreements and to lift those court orders seals, and they denied us three times. Congress is welcome to do the same and join the fight.

(01:39:32)
I'd lastly like to focus on operation that the President led in D.C. Because of this, we are taking this fight in D.C. to every single city across the country. 2,100 arrests in the last month alone. D.C. has seen a 60% decrease in gun crimes, 75% decrease in carjackings, and 53% decrease in homicide in our nation's capital. And rightly so. We're bringing that fight to the streets of America.

(01:39:57)
I want to thank you for your support, and I'm proud to be the director that leads this FBI into a new headquarters building that they've needed for decades, saving the taxpayer three and a half billions of dollars, and also providing our workforce a safe environment. If you don't know the calamity that is a Hoover building, I invite each and every one of you to walk around. I'll give you a tour myself. You can see where the cement falls on the heads of our employees that is only to be saved by netting, just to give you an example.

(01:40:22)
Thank you for support to our mission. And I do want to highlight one thing about D.C. It's because the FBI gathered sources and evidence that we were able to, through our source network, identify the horrific murder of the D.C. intern Eric Tarpinian. I've spoken to his family, and we are working to bring them justice. Mr. Chairman, in my 16 years now, my 17 years of government service, if anyone has any questions about my service, bring it on.

Jim Jordan (01:40:48):

Yeah, thank you, Director. We will now proceed under the five-minute rule. The chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Issa.

Darrell Issa (01:40:55):

Director, delighted to have you here. You are a breath of fresh air. As you outlined, and I won't repeat it, the accomplishments, you did so with the same resources as your predecessor roughly. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (01:41:10):

I believe so, yes.

Darrell Issa (01:41:11):

So how much of that has to do with taking people out of the backside of the FBI and moving them into the field, into doing the job for which we primarily pay the FBI?

Kash Patel (01:41:23):

It's exactly what we needed done. One-third of the FBI's workforce resided in the National Capital Region before I got there. One-third of the crimes do not happen in Washington D.C.

Darrell Issa (01:41:31):

Not anymore.

Kash Patel (01:41:32):

Not anymore. So 1,000 personnel of the FBI were deployed across this country on a permanent basis. Every single state in this union is getting a plus up, not a reduction, a plus up, of 1811s, of intel analysts and support staff, and that is why the crime rates are going down in record numbers.

Darrell Issa (01:41:49):

Thank you for doing that. It's perhaps the hardest thing for a bureaucrat to do, is to lower the headcount around them that support them, and I appreciate your willingness to do it different than your predecessor. A lot of what you covered earlier was to find the discovery and then the prosecution that is done by the DOJ, but I want to talk a little bit about the prevent side.

Kash Patel (01:42:16):

On the Charlie assassination, sir?

Darrell Issa (01:42:18):

No, no, no, on all of these.

Kash Patel (01:42:19):

Okay.

Darrell Issa (01:42:20):

Okay. For example, and I'll bring it up before the Democrats bring it up, January 6th. January 6th, we now know, because of your find, that in fact there were people involved who were not just observers but participants who, in fact, it's been alleged, and I personally believe, in fact were part of promoting, perhaps even the one woman who died, encouraging her to walk through a door that led to her death. When you see that kind of activity, and you know it was done under predecessors with full knowledge, whether it's January 6th, where embedded people crossed the line, or any other activity, including obviously the Russian hoax that we're now dealing with front and center. My question to you is, what can you or others do to prevent it from occurring again? Not on your watch, but on future watches, how can we know that this won't happen again the moment you leave the FBI?

Kash Patel (01:43:23):

It's simple. What I'm doing through our leadership cadre is having FBI agents do what they were trained to do, not what they were not trained to do, not put them in situations that both harm them and the public. We're also utilizing our sort networks and prioritizing the threat structure to go after the narco traffickers and counterterrorism people, the counterintelligence threats and the cyber threats. That's what they were trained to do, and that's what we're letting them do.

Darrell Issa (01:43:46):

One major question I have after decades of doing this on our side of it, both the chairman, myself and others, both at Oversight and here, have seen that the FBI and the Department of Justice hide behind non-statutory practices. Now you've changed the interpretation of many of those practices. That's why we're getting the discovery that was previously withheld. How do we work together to make sure that we never again have false walls, non-statutory walls that say the Department of Justice as a prohibition about giving "you fill in the blank" that has led to the chairman not seeing anything until you took over?

Kash Patel (01:44:30):

I'm wedded to aggressive constitutional oversight. Having been a House congressional staffer, I know that is an important part of securing our democracy. The way we make it an everlasting enduring process is by showing the American people the results of what we are doing, and the important work of this committee, and putting it out to them so they can see government waste, fraud, and abuse. And then they can demand from our constituents and our electors that they want this process to continue.

Darrell Issa (01:44:55):

Last major question here. Some things are so sensitive

Darrell Issa (01:45:00):

That we both would agree they cannot be made public. Will you commit to this committee when it is too sensitive to disclose that you would at least make it available for in-camera review by the chairman and ranking members or others designated?

Kash Patel (01:45:16):

I have done that and I'll continue to do that.

Darrell Issa (01:45:18):

Well, thank you. Mr. Chairman, this is a breath of fresh air. This is the beginning of what we need, but my questions today for the director are ones in which I believe that we do need to codify by agreement or by statute if necessary the kind of openness and transparency that we're seeing from this administration, the kind of discovery that's allowing us to do our oversight properly and I would hope that that be the follow-up to this, obviously along with the Attorney General and I yield back my four seconds.

Jim Jordan (01:45:53):

Thank you. The gentleman yields back, gentleman from New York is recognized.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:45:56):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome Director Patel. In the wake of the tragic murder of Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump said, "Violence and murder are the tragic consequences of demonizing those with whom you disagree day after day, year after year in the most hateful and despicable way possible." I would note for the record that Donald Trump has famously demonized practically every person he has ever disagreed with and therefore using his own logic, he has put their lives at risk. I should know about two weeks ago when I announced my decision not to re-election, many people on both sides of the aisle, including the chairman, offered me well wishes and thanked me for my service. Donald Trump, on the other hand, took it Truth Social to call me a "psychopathic nut job," among other things.

(01:46:53)
Yesterday I received a threatening note filled with anti-Semitic comments and hateful attacks that mimicked some of the same language used by the president. I'm sure many of us on this committee face similar threats every day. We have seen political assaults on both the left and the right, the attack on Charlie Kirk, the attempted assassination of the president, the murder of the Democratic Speaker of the Minnesota House, the assault on Paul Pelosi and the attack on the capitol on January 6th, for example. Director Patel, do you agree that there is political violence from both the left and the right?

Kash Patel (01:47:29):

There is too much political violence.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:47:31):

Do you agree yes or no that there's violence from-

Kash Patel (01:47:32):

There is too much political violence based on ideologies from either side.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:47:36):

From either side. Okay. Are you aware of this study by the Cato Institute, a well-known conservative group that found that 69% of the violence is from the right?

Kash Patel (01:47:46):

I'm not familiar with that study.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:47:47):

You're not familiar? Okay. I would commend it to you. Are you aware the administration has threatened to use violence as an excuse to crack down on liberty and freedom of speech?

Kash Patel (01:47:59):

Say that again. I'm sorry.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:48:00):

Are you aware the administration has threatened to use violence as an excuse to crack down on liberty and freedom of speech?

Kash Patel (01:48:09):

Nobody at the FBI is doing that.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:48:11):

I didn't ask you about the FBI, I said the administration.

Kash Patel (01:48:13):

I speak for the FBI.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:48:15):

I would like to enter in the record an article from today's New York Times titled, Trump invokes Kirk's Killing in Justifying Measures to Silence Opponents. In the wake of Charlie Kirk's killing, President Trump and his allies have laid out a broad plan to target liberal groups, monitor speech, revoke visas, and designate certain groups as the domestic terrorists. I ask unanimous consent to insert this into the record.

Jim Jordan (01:48:37):

[inaudible 01:48:39].

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:48:39):

Thank you. Politicizing the murder of Charlie King to go after free speech is not a legacy I believe Charlie King would've wanted. Moving on, I want to address another topic. The FBI has traditionally played a key role in prosecuting public officials for corruption, but I fear that at a time when the president is accepting planes from Qatar for his post-presidential personal use, issuing pardons to major donors and personally profiting from the office of the presidency, the FBI may be abandoning its commitment to investigating public corruption. Since its creation in the wake of the Watergate Scandal, the Public Integrity Section has been one of the crown jewels of the Department of Justice investigating and prosecuting corruption among the nation's public officials and acting as a key safeguard against politicized prosecutions. This section's work has been supported by an elite squad in the FBI devoted specifically to rooting out corruption. But according to reports, the Public Integrity Section has now been decimated and the FBI's public corruption squad has been dismantled.

(01:49:40)
I would like to submit for the record a New York Times article entitled, FBI Dismantles Elite Public Corruption Squad. I ask unanimous consent.

Jim Jordan (01:49:49):

[inaudible 01:49:50].

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:49:51):

Thank you. These actions are an invitation to corrupt politicians to break the law since they know that the government is asleep at the switch. Last month, Senator Warren and I, along with dozens of other members of Congress wrote to you and Attorney General Bondi expressing grave concern over your decision to effectively legalize corruption and to politicize prosecutorial decisions, and I ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record.

Jim Jordan (01:50:18):

Without objection.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:50:19):

Thank you. I don't have time today to walk through all of our questions and concerns, but will you commit to answering this letter in short order so that we can understand what factors led to this decision and how it has impacted the ability to hold corrupt officials accountable?

Kash Patel (01:50:37):

I will review your letter with my team and respond as soon as I can.

Jerrold Lewis Nadler (01:50:39):

You will respond. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.

Kash Patel (01:50:43):

The gentleman yields back. Gentleman from Arizona's recognized for five minutes.

Andy Biggs (01:50:45):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you director for being here. I appreciate the change in the FBI and the tone since you've been there. We heard the ranking member, however, describe the FBI under your leadership as being resorting to political enforcement and you personally as being paranoid. I would just suggest that perhaps that is the projections of the ranking member himself and not you, sir. I want to refer to something that was said yesterday in yesterday's hearing by Senator Grassley. He said, "It's well understood that your predecessor left you and FBI infected with politics." At your nomination hearing, he made public records about whistleblowers regarding something called Arctic Frost. Arctic Frost was the FBI case opened and approved by anti-Trump FBI Agent, Thibault and Arctic Frost became Jack Smith's elector case. The new records show that Arctic Frost was much broader than just an electoral matter.

(01:51:48)
In fact, it was expanded to Republican organizations. Some examples of the groups that the Wray FBI sought to place under political investigation included the Republican National Committee, Republican Attorneys General's Association, and Trump political groups. In total, 92 Republican targets including Republican groups, Republican-linked individuals were placed under the investigative scope of Arctic Frost. On that political list for investigation was one of Charlie Kirk's groups, Turning Point USA. In other words, Arctic Frost wasn't just a case to politically investigate Trump, it was the vehicle by which partisan FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors could achieve their partisan ends and then properly investigate the entire Republican political apparatus. I'd ask that Mr. Chairman, that that document be admitted into-

Jim Jordan (01:52:38):

Without objection.

Andy Biggs (01:52:39):

So, I know that this may be under current investigation, but I wish to ask specific questions about this for just a moment. What search tools were used in Arctic Frost to view private communications of targets?

Kash Patel (01:52:55):

I believe the traditional search tools, search warrants, lawful service of process and the tools that the FBI has in our infrastructure systems, cybersecurity systems and counterintelligence systems. But generally speaking, if I may, I want to use this to highlight the fact that I'm continuing my promise to work with Congress to produce documents simultaneously and also conduct ongoing investigations. I'm giving you as much as I can and I'll give you more when I can.

Andy Biggs (01:53:23):

Thank you. Another question regarding that is were there any directives from the Biden White House concerning the Arctic Frost investigation?

Kash Patel (01:53:30):

Were there any? Sorry.

Andy Biggs (01:53:32):

Directives or communications from the Biden White House itself concerning the Arctic Frost investigation?

Kash Patel (01:53:39):

I'll just rely on what was turned over to date, sir.

Andy Biggs (01:53:41):

Okay. So, I want to add here, the search warrants that were used included the seizing of a US member of Congress, his phone. I think we all know who that was and how that was taken away and used for political purposes, Mr. Director. So, we'll leave that for a second and let's go over to the Charlie Kirk case for just a second. Let's emphasize this. How many hours did it take from the assassination to the arrest of the assassin, Mr. Director

Kash Patel (01:54:17):

33.

Andy Biggs (01:54:20):

That seems pretty swift and it was because of the actual release of videos and photographs that you directed to be released, sir.

Kash Patel (01:54:31):

That's correct and to put it in perspective, the Boston Bomber took five days and Luigi Mangione took five days.

Andy Biggs (01:54:38):

Was the platform, Discord forthright from the start with law enforcement about the shooter's communications on its platform?

Kash Patel (01:54:44):

Discord, the platform ownership has been working with our lawful process and we are obtaining materials from them on a rolling basis.

Andy Biggs (01:54:52):

Thank you. And I want to get back here to Arctic Frost for just a second, Mr. Chairman, I'd like the unclassified document from the FBI released to be admitted to the record.

Jim Jordan (01:55:05):

Without objection.

Andy Biggs (01:55:06):

And a document from the Economic Times all should be admitted to the record.

Jim Jordan (01:55:10):

Without objection.

Andy Biggs (01:55:11):

So, I'm going to give you the last 30 seconds. We could go on about the Epstein case. I've got a bunch about that, but I'm just going to let you, if you wish to respond to either of the two vitriolic questioning or statement from the Democrats.

Kash Patel (01:55:29):

The work of the FBI speaks for itself. It's on showcase here today. Anyone that wants to attack the FBI can attack me, but leave our leadership structure alone. When you have 23,000 violent felons arrested twice as many as this time last year, the work speaks for itself.

Andy Biggs (01:55:43):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you. Appreciate your good work Director Patel. Yield back.

Jim Jordan (01:55:48):

Gentleman yields back. Gentleman from Maryland is recognize.

Jamie Raskin (01:55:51):

Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, before you joined the FBI, you railed against it for covering up Jeffrey Epstein's human trafficking ring. Let me refresh your memory with this clip.

Speaker 3 (01:56:02):

It has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it. That doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator. That seems like an evil thing to do regardless of who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, largest… Why is the FBI protecting the largest scale pederast in human history.

Kash Patel (01:56:25):

Simple, because of who's on that list.

Jamie Raskin (01:56:27):

So, you finished that December 2023 interview with a challenge to the FBI and harsh words for Republicans in Congress for not getting the Epstein files out to the public. You can see this clip.

Kash Patel (01:56:40):

Boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.

Jamie Raskin (01:56:44):

"Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are," you said. You emphasized that the president and FBI director each had complete authority to release Epstein's client list. You said Epstein's black book is under the "direct control of the director of the FBI." Look at this clip.

Speaker 4 (01:57:00):

This is way off the topic, but who has Jeffrey Epstein's-

Kash Patel (01:57:06):

Black book?

Speaker 4 (01:57:06):

… black Book?

Kash Patel (01:57:07):

FBI.

Speaker 4 (01:57:08):

But who? There's-

Kash Patel (01:57:12):

Oh, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI.

Jamie Raskin (01:57:16):

All right, so you were sworn in as director more than 200 days ago. Now, the black book is under your direct control, so why haven't you released the names of Epstein's co-conspirators in the rape and sex trafficking of young women and girls?

Kash Patel (01:57:31):

The Rolodex, which is what everybody colloquially refers to as the black book has been released.

Jamie Raskin (01:57:37):

Oh, no, you're talking about what the journalist got five years ago. No, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what you were talking about there.

Kash Patel (01:57:43):

That's exactly what I was talking-

Jamie Raskin (01:57:44):

The black book under the direct control of FBI director.

Kash Patel (01:57:47):

We have released more material than anyone else before. The Biden administration, Obama administration had the exact opportunities to release this material and they never did. And if you are telling the men and women, the FBI are not going after child-

Jamie Raskin (01:57:57):

[inaudible 01:57:58] But why do you change your decision?

Kash Patel (01:57:58):

Hang on. You said we're not going after child predators. 1,500 child predators arrested this year. 35% increase.

Jamie Raskin (01:58:03):

I reclaim my time.

Kash Patel (01:58:06):

4,700 child victims now-

Jamie Raskin (01:58:06):

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to reclaim my time if you could instruct the witness. Well, why have you changed your position? There, you were saying it's under the direct control of the FBI director and all of it should be released. Why have you changed your position?

Kash Patel (01:58:19):

Everything that has been lawfully permitted to be released has been released and as I told you-

Jamie Raskin (01:58:24):

Really?

Kash Patel (01:58:25):

… the investigation was limited and let me make something crystal clear, I never said Jeffrey Epstein didn't traffic other people, other women and there're not other victims. This is the investigation we were given from 2006, 2007 and 2008 and the search warrant from 2006, 2007 and 2008. That's what we're working with.

Jamie Raskin (01:58:40):

Well, wait, have you released all of the stuff that the FBI has seized from Epstein's house, the computers, the emails, the file cabinets, the documents? What about the financial records, have you released all of that?

Kash Patel (01:58:52):

Everything the court has allowed us to release-

Jamie Raskin (01:58:54):

Which court are you talking about?

Kash Patel (01:58:55):

Three separate federal courts have come in and said-

Jamie Raskin (01:58:58):

We're talking about the evidence you've got. It's got nothing to do with what those courts have.

Kash Patel (01:59:02):

Do you have any idea how the law works?

Jamie Raskin (01:59:04):

Wait a minute.

Kash Patel (01:59:04):

Do you want me to break the law in a federal judge's order to satisfy your curiosity?

Jamie Raskin (01:59:07):

No, I want you I to follow your own word, Director Patel. You said up there it was under the direct control of the FBI director. He had the black book. Have you released-

Kash Patel (01:59:16):

And everything I have direct control over, we have gone to court. You haven't. You went to court [inaudible 01:59:19]-

Jamie Raskin (01:59:19):

Complete your sentence, everything you have direct control over, you said-

Kash Patel (01:59:22):

We have gone to court and everything we have direct control over and can-

Jamie Raskin (01:59:26):

Director Patel, complete your sentence. You said everything-

Kash Patel (01:59:27):

… lawfully released, we're releasing.

Jim Jordan (01:59:28):

[inaudible 01:59:29] the gentleman, he'd like to complete his answer.

Jamie Raskin (01:59:32):

You began this sentence, "Everything you have direct control over, I," and then you stopped that sentence. You've released everything that you have direct control over?

Kash Patel (01:59:40):

I have direct control over and can lawfully release. If you're not familiar with the court orders, that's not my fault. Go look at them [inaudible 01:59:47].

Jamie Raskin (01:59:47):

I'm perfectly familiar.

Kash Patel (01:59:48):

Go to court.

Jamie Raskin (01:59:48):

… with them. But how did we prosecute Ghislaine Maxwell?

Kash Patel (01:59:53):

She was prosecuted with the investigatory material that was collected from 2001 and 2005. Because of the non-prosecution agreements and the court orders on the investigations and search warrants, we were not able to develop new information. And oh, by the way, Jeffrey Epstein was out for 12 years and the Obama and Biden administration did nothing to look at his work, his pedophile network. If you want to blame me, that's fine, but now you're blaming the men and women who conducted this great search and-

Jamie Raskin (02:00:20):

Stop that. I'm not blaming anybody other than you. You're not keeping your word. You said that you would release all of the materials under your direct control.

Kash Patel (02:00:25):

Has anyone released more information on Epstein than I have? Has anyone?

Jamie Raskin (02:00:30):

Much more-

Kash Patel (02:00:30):

You'd call me [inaudible 02:00:31] Wray? Did they?

Jamie Raskin (02:00:31):

Much more has come out in the days since the American people in Congress have been demanding it, but it's coming out in dribs and drabs. Why don't you just release the entire file as you promised to do?

Kash Patel (02:00:43):

I literally just told you there are multiple federal court orders. I'm not going to break the law to satisfy your curiosity. You didn't join us when we filed [inaudible 02:00:52] court to release the court orders. You could have. You have lawyers, you could have shown up. You didn't do that.

Jamie Raskin (02:00:57):

That's a tiny fraction of the material we're talking about.

Kash Patel (02:00:59):

That is not.

Jamie Raskin (02:01:00):

It is a tiny fraction.

Kash Patel (02:01:01):

How do you know that? Have you seen everything?

Jamie Raskin (02:01:02):

It's all misdirection.

Kash Patel (02:01:04):

How you know that?

Jim Jordan (02:01:04):

Time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from California is recognized.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:01:08):

Well, thank you. Mr. Director, just to be clear, how many of the Epstein files were released in the four years of the Biden administration?

Kash Patel (02:01:14):

Zero.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:01:15):

And how many of you released?

Kash Patel (02:01:17):

I don't have the number, but it's got to be thousands of pages of stuff.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:01:20):

I was going to ask you to begin whether Americans are safer today than they were nine months ago, but you cited dramatic increases in criminal arrests since you've taken office, a dramatic decrease in crime that's resulted. Who would've thought that taking criminals off the streets would reduce the crime rate? But somehow we have stumbled upon that new truth. But it begs the question, what was the FBI doing during the four years of the Biden administration to see that dramatic and increase in work under your tenure?

Kash Patel (02:01:56):

The simple answer is I'm going [inaudible 02:01:58] to let good cops be cops. We're working with our state, local law enforcement. We're energizing our partnerships. We're bringing on more task force officers. When you have more cops in the streets, when you're using ground-based intelligence, when you're not weaponizing law enforcement and focusing on DC and focusing on the rest of America, this is what happens. It is not a significant mind shift in terms of how we maneuver the FBI. They've wanted to do this work since they signed up. We're just letting them.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:02:22):

And we've seen many prominent Democrats oppose your efforts to restore law and order to the streets of our nation's capital. I mean, all of us here have seen a dramatic change for the better here in Washington DC. Why are so many Democrats attacking you for that?

Kash Patel (02:02:39):

Sir, Democrats have been attacking me for a decade as is the fake news media. They didn't like the fact that I exposed the Russia Gate Hoax and the largest weaponization of the FBI, DOJ in US history. We proved it to be true with Congressional oversight. I went to that Congressional oversight and we'll continue to do that work.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:02:56):

Christopher Wray repeatedly warned this committee that the Biden open borders policy had produced a significant increase in terrorist threats, that he said kept him up at night. A particular concern, he said [inaudible 02:03:08] it was a 2 million gotaways that entered the country during the Biden administration. That's an average of 41,000 every month. What are the monthly gotaway numbers today?

Kash Patel (02:03:19):

Sir, I'll have to get back to you on the exact gotaway numbers, but identifying that there are gotaways is step one, going and manhunting them is step two and that's what we're committing our resources to do.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:03:29):

Well, that's my next question is what progress has administration made in apprehending and removing terrorist threats that came in during the Biden years?

Kash Patel (02:03:36):

I think you're talking about, if you're not, let me know, known or suspected terrorists and we've encountered almost zero at the southern border since the southern border has been sealed. But the problem that we are running into is our northern border. It's largely expansive. The enemy has adapted and we need more focus on the northern border to stop known or suspected terrorists from coming in from places like China, Russia, the Middle East, Africa, Afghanistan.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:03:58):

And what can you tell us about the remaining threat posed by potential terrorist cells here in the United States?

Kash Patel (02:04:04):

The terrorist threat that has continues to be posed by international terrorists here in the United States is one of my highest priorities. We are working through our intelligence community partners to identify those individuals and we've taken down numerous individuals and numerous rings across this country to neutralize that terrorist threat including places like New York City, Los Angeles, and I believe Dallas, Texas most recently.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:04:26):

How extensively did criminal cartels like Sinaloa, Jalisco New Generation, MS-13, [inaudible 02:04:33] and others infiltrate our country during the Biden administration?

Kash Patel (02:04:36):

By the tens of thousands.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:04:38):

Well, and what progress have you been making and combating their presence?

Kash Patel (02:04:42):

I think the DHS is best to speak to that, but I think… I can't remember the numbers of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of individuals they found that came in illegally and the tens of thousands [inaudible 02:04:52] at associations to criminal networks have all been deported.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:04:54):

And that effort is being opposed every step of the way by Democratic leaders in our cities, some of our states and right here in the Congress. Isn't that true?

Kash Patel (02:05:03):

Well, we're just working where we can in every single city we can and I welcome the opportunity partner with Republicans or Democrats on fighting violent crime like we're doing.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:05:11):

Mr. Biggs asked about Arctic Frost. What else can you tell us about that and what we need to do to assure that it never happens again?

Kash Patel (02:05:18):

Continue the Congressional oversight work that you're doing on Arctic Frost. Let me provide you with more documentation on Arctic Frost and also call in witnesses from the paperwork that we have given you. You have that right, and the American public deserves to hear what those people have to say. As for my ongoing investigation, there's not much I can say.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:05:34):

What role did the FBI play in suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story during the 2024 election?

Kash Patel (02:05:43):

Off the top of my memory, sir, I believe the FBI was in possession of verified information from that laptop and it was improperly publicized that they did not have information and masked it as Russian disinformation. We now know that was categorically false. I don't know why the FBI did that when they did that, but we've released all the materials related to that.

Thomas Miller McClintock (02:06:06):

Thank you.

Jim Jordan (02:06:07):

Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from New York is recognized. Mr. Goldman

Mr. Goldman (02:06:10):

Mr. Patel, does Donald Trump appear anywhere in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:06:17):

I'm sorry, could you say that again?

Mr. Goldman (02:06:19):

It's not a complicated question. Does Donald Trump appear anywhere in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:06:23):

I didn't say it was a complicated question. I just didn't hear you. So, my apologies. We have released where President Trump's names in the Epstein files and everybody else and all credible information that we are illegally allowed to release has been released.

Mr. Goldman (02:06:38):

All right. So, let's go through that. You're referring to court orders that prohibit you from releasing grand jury testimony under rule 6(e). Is that what you're referring to when you say as the law allows?

Kash Patel (02:06:54):

That's a piece of it.

Mr. Goldman (02:06:55):

Really? What other evidence do those three court orders you cited prohibit from being released?

Kash Patel (02:07:04):

Information that was collected pursuant to those search warrants that were limited in fashion.

Mr. Goldman (02:07:09):

Wrong. Wrong. That's not what the court order says and that's not under 6(e).

Kash Patel (02:07:13):

And I said that's 6(e) and I said there was others and I'm answering that there are sealed court order documents. There are protective orders from-

Mr. Goldman (02:07:19):

They're unsealed as part of discovery given to Ghislaine Maxwell. They are no longer sealed.

Kash Patel (02:07:26):

That's just not true. We can argue about it all you want.

Mr. Goldman (02:07:28):

Okay. Well, you agree that there are… So, wait, your testimony here is that the reason why you are not releasing all of the videos that you have acknowledged there are so many and that the FBI spent thousands of hours of reviewing, and the photographs that you have. You're saying that you're not releasing those because there's a court order requiring them to be sealed. Is that your testimony?

Kash Patel (02:07:54):

Never said that about the videos. On the totality of the videos, of the thousands of images that were seized pursuant to the search warrants executed at the time, the overwhelming majority of that video is pornographic material that was downloaded from the internet and child sexual abuse material. We will never release that.

Mr. Goldman (02:08:15):

Well, as you should not release the victims. But if there are videos that relate to others who Epstein trafficked to such as maybe Prince Andrew or photographs that you have total control to release?

Kash Patel (02:08:31):

Yes. And if it exists.

Mr. Goldman (02:08:32):

And so why haven't you released it?

Kash Patel (02:08:33):

Why are you supposing that that is a fact when in fact it is false? Are you saying that I'm sitting on evidence [inaudible 02:08:39]-

Mr. Goldman (02:08:39):

You're saying that none of the videos relate to anything relevant to the Jeffrey Epstein trafficking ring?

Kash Patel (02:08:45):

Every single video that we have collected pursuant to the prior search warrants has been examined for the last 10 years and every single video has been utilized for whatever prosecutions were able to be legally brought.

Mr. Goldman (02:08:58):

I'm not asking about prosecutions, I'm asking about why you aren't releasing the full Epstein files, including the names of people who were involved in the sex ring that you promised to do before you became FBI director.

Kash Patel (02:09:13):

I just told you. I'm not going to release downloaded porn-

Mr. Goldman (02:09:16):

I'm asking about that. Fine. I'm asking about all the other files.

Kash Patel (02:09:20):

What other videos? Tell me, tell me.

Mr. Goldman (02:09:23):

That's what I'm asking.

Kash Patel (02:09:24):

Tell me.

Mr. Goldman (02:09:24):

You're saying there are no videos that would be relevant to anyone else involved in the Jeffrey Epstein sex ring-

Kash Patel (02:09:30):

Pursuant to Mr. Acosta's collection of information based on the search warrants, that's all we have in our possession.

Mr. Goldman (02:09:38):

I understand and I'm asking you, but that's stuff.

Kash Patel (02:09:40):

That's all we got.

Mr. Goldman (02:09:40):

I'm not asking all you got. I'm asking you. In that stuff, there's nothing that's related to any other sex trafficking. Any other people engaged with Epstein in underage sex?

Kash Patel (02:09:51):

That's correct. To my knowledge, no.

Mr. Goldman (02:09:52):

Okay. Let's talk about the witness interviews. 302s of witness interviews. Those are not subject to the court order. Those are not subject to any fictional sealed order for a search warrant. Why aren't you releasing those with the redacted names of the victims?

Kash Patel (02:10:08):

We are releasing as much as legally allowed. That's why we went back to court.

Mr. Goldman (02:10:12):

How is that not legally allowed?

Kash Patel (02:10:14):

Sir, do you know how court orders work? Do you know how protective orders work?

Mr. Goldman (02:10:18):

Actually, Mr. Patel, I was a real prosecutor for 10 years. I know exactly how court orders-

Kash Patel (02:10:22):

Oh, so I was a fake one?

Mr. Goldman (02:10:23):

And I want to understand what the court order prevents you from releasing witness statements that the FBI took.

Kash Patel (02:10:31):

You should know that as a real prosecutor when the court hands down a protective order and a motion to seal the material is sealed unless that judgment needs it.

Mr. Goldman (02:10:39):

So, your testimony here is that all of those witness statements are under a court order, a protective order.

Kash Patel (02:10:47):

We are providing everything we can legally provide-

Mr. Goldman (02:10:50):

Now that's not my question. My question is why are those witness statements that are not grand jury testimony that if they were under a protective order are no longer under a protective order, why are they not being released?

Kash Patel (02:11:03):

How are they not under a protective order?

Mr. Goldman (02:11:05):

Why are you not going to the court like you did for the grand jury testimony to unseal those records?

Kash Patel (02:11:10):

The DOJ did go to the court.

Mr. Goldman (02:11:12):

No, not on those records. Why aren't you going? You just went on grand jury.

Jim Jordan (02:11:16):

Time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Goldman (02:11:17):

You are hiding the Epstein files, Mr. Patel.

Jim Jordan (02:11:19):

Time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Goldman (02:11:21):

You are part of the cover-up.

Kash Patel (02:11:23):

Can I respond?

Mr. Goldman (02:11:24):

You sure can.

Kash Patel (02:11:27):

Any allegations that I'm a part of a cover-up to protect child sexual trafficking and victims of human trafficking and sexual crimes is patently and categorically false in the work of my [inaudible 02:11:39]-

Mr. Goldman (02:11:39):

So I hope you will talk to them when they have requested to speak you the because the victims have requested and you're not responding to them.

Jim Jordan (02:11:51):

Director, yes or no? Is the FBI still spying on parents at school board meetings?

Kash Patel (02:11:56):

No, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:11:57):

Is the FBI still targeting Catholics?

Kash Patel (02:12:00):

No, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:12:00):

Is the FBI still spying on President Trump?

Kash Patel (02:12:03):

I don't believe so.

Jim Jordan (02:12:04):

Is the FBI still censoring Americans?

Kash Patel (02:12:07):

No, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:12:08):

Is the FBI still targeting Americans for shopping at Cabela's or purchasing Bibles?

Kash Patel (02:12:13):

Nobody is targeted for their faith.

Jim Jordan (02:12:15):

Is the FBI still targeting Americans who are pro-life?

Kash Patel (02:12:17):

Nobody's targeting anyone for their beliefs.

Jim Jordan (02:12:19):

Is the FBI still cooking the books on crime data?

Kash Patel (02:12:22):

The crime data is real.

Jim Jordan (02:12:24):

Is the FBI still purging agents for conservative viewpoints?

Kash Patel (02:12:28):

No one at the FBI has asked their viewpoints on policy.

Jim Jordan (02:12:30):

Is the FBI still labeling the Betsy Ross flag the flag of the American Revolution a hate symbol?

Kash Patel (02:12:37):

No.

Jim Jordan (02:12:39):

Well, maybe that's why you've been able to… What was the number? 23,000 bad guys you've arrested, a huge increase from the same time period in the previous administration. I think you said 1,400 predators, 4,000 children rescued? Were those the facts?

Kash Patel (02:12:54):

4,735% increase on children rescued?

Jim Jordan (02:12:57):

Yeah. And you got the guy at Abbey Gate?

Kash Patel (02:13:01):

We got the Abbey Gate guy.

Jim Jordan (02:13:02):

The Abbey Gate guy from the fourth district of Ohio who lost his life there serving our country. We appreciate that. Maybe when you're not focused on politics, you can actually do what the FBI supposed to do. Go get the bad guys, right?

Kash Patel (02:13:13):

That's what the men and women of the FBI do.

Jim Jordan (02:13:16):

Director did John Brennan lie to Congress? Let me just read a couple of things actually before you answer that. Two years ago, we had Mr. Brennan in for an interview and I asked him, "How'd you learn about the dossier in December of 2016?" Mr. Brennan replied, "I received a copy of it from the FBI and the CIA was very much opposed to having any reference or inclusion of the Steele dossier in the intelligence community assessment." That's what John Brennan told the United States Congress. Seven weeks ago, the director of National Intelligence told us this. "John Brennan lied and denied using the dossier in the intelligence community assessment because he knew it was discredited." CIA officer told the House Intelligence Committee, "Brennan refused to remove it and when confronted with the dossiers main flaws, he responded, 'Yes, but doesn't it ring true?'" John Brennan lied to us?

Kash Patel (02:14:17):

Mr. Chairman, I won't stylize the evidence. What I will say is that the intelligence community assessment, those that created it, and any individual involved with it is an ongoing investigation.

Jim Jordan (02:14:27):

There's an investigation into what took place in December 2016, January 2017 when this whole thing started, this grand conspiracy that is being investigated. Is that right?

Kash Patel (02:14:39):

That has been publicly announced by the department.

Jim Jordan (02:14:41):

That's been announced by the department. Did Chris Wray hide documents from this committee?

Kash Patel (02:14:46):

You would know better than me, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:14:48):

Well, I think you told us 700 pieces of information. You've given this committee since you've been the director relative to just one incident. The Catholic memorandum from the Richmond Field Office.

Kash Patel (02:14:58):

I can give you the comparison, sir. Yeah, the Catholic memo, I believe we turned over 750 documents. In Mr. Wray's tenure, I believe they turned over 19 pages.

Jim Jordan (02:15:09):

19 pages. You give it a 700? Why would Chris Wray hide information from this committee? Hazard to guess?

Kash Patel (02:15:16):

I'm sorry.

Jim Jordan (02:15:16):

Hazard to guess why he would do that?

Kash Patel (02:15:18):

I don't know, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:15:19):

I think maybe it was because FBI was spying on a priest trying to get him to break the priest penitent confidence that exists. You think maybe that was the reason?

Kash Patel (02:15:31):

You'd have to ask him, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:15:32):

Yeah, we'd love to do that. I want to read a few names here. RDK's Tropic Vortex, Riding Hood, Foggy Falls, Echos Fate, Sirens, Lure, Genetic, Christmas. What are these code names about, Director? Do you know?

Kash Patel (02:15:46):

Not off the top of my head, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:15:47):

Well, RDK's Tropic Vortex. My understanding, these are code names for leak investigations of classified information from the year 2017. Does that ring a bell?

Kash Patel (02:15:55):

In terms of leak investigations, many of those are classified and many of those are ongoing, Mr. Chairman. But we are working with you to produce documents as we close those investigations or as we declassify them.

Jim Jordan (02:16:09):

Let me ask you this question because this is something I've wondered about the way the FBI used to work. This whole thing… So many of these things unfolded. It seems to me you had all these people in government leaking information that then gets reported in the press. There's a story written about it, and then that article is then used to further the investigation and move forward with what they want to do. Did that take place back in 2016 and 2017?

Kash Patel (02:16:33):

That's the exact scenario that took place in the FISA application for Carter Page and the rest of the Trump campaign.

Jim Jordan (02:16:41):

And that is frightening because that's what the CIA is supposed to do in foreign countries. It's not supposed to happen to Americans. But it did, didn't it, Director?

Kash Patel (02:16:49):

Yes.

Jim Jordan (02:16:49):

And not just any Americans. It happened with the President of the United States. Is that accurate?

Kash Patel (02:16:55):

Yes, sir.

Jim Jordan (02:16:56):

Yeah. And you were the key guy in helping expose that. And I think our country will be forever grateful for what you did to let the country know that was going on involving Americans, which is not supposed to happen. And not just again, any American. But the President of the United States. Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California.

Zoe Lofgren (02:17:17):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm concerned by reports that FBI agents have been diverted from their important work on crime and anti-terrorism to work on matters that are not critical to our safety. I'd like to play the video, the whole video.

Speaker 4 (02:17:35):

Jeffrey Epstein's-

Kash Patel (02:17:37):

Black book.

Speaker 4 (02:17:38):

Black Book.

Kash Patel (02:17:38):

FBI.

Speaker 4 (02:17:39):

But who? I mean there's-

Kash Patel (02:17:43):

Oh, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI.

Speaker 4 (02:17:48):

But the Black book is not just sitting. I mean that's Hoover Power times 10.

Kash Patel (02:17:56):

And to me, that's a thing I think President Trump should run off, on day one, roll out the Black book.

Zoe Lofgren (02:18:03):

In contrast to that attitude of let it all out, we're getting reports of actions that are run contrary to getting everything out. And that also involved diversions of FBI resources. For example, an FBI whistleblower reported that you were pressured by the Attorney General to place 1,000 personnel on 24-hour shifts to mine, roughly 100,000 Epstein-related records to redact President Trump's name from the files. Bloomberg reported this that you directed FBI special agents from the New York and Washington Field offices to join the Bureau's FOIA employees in Winchester and another building a few miles away. And that while reviewing the Epstein files, FBI personnel identified numerous references to Trump in the documents and people familiar with the matter said that Trump's name, along with other high-profile individuals was blacked out.

(02:19:08)
Now, The New York Times reports, and this is a quote, "Justice Department officials diverted hundreds of FBI employees and federal prosecutors from their regular duties to go through the documents at least four times, including once to flag any references to Mr. Trump and other prominent figures. Details of the review were based on accounts by three former FBI and Justice Department officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of fears of retaliation. And further that the FBI finished its review of the files and materials, was sent to a team of Justice Department lawyers who double-checked the FBI's redactions, and were instructed to flag any mentions of Mr. Trump and other celebrities." Now I have three questions for you, Mr. Patel, about this. First,

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:00):

… first, how many times did President Trump's name appear in the Epstein files? Was it more than 100, more than 1,000? Were the agents who were pulled from their duties to redact the President's name from the Epstein files working on criminal cases or national security cases or child sex trafficking cases? And are the number of agents that have been reported diverted for these purposes? Is that accurate?

Kash Patel (02:20:25):

No.

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:29):

No what?

Kash Patel (02:20:31):

You asked if it was accurate. I said it wasn't.

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:33):

So you're saying that none of this happened. That-

Kash Patel (02:20:36):

No, I'm saying it was inaccurate.

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:37):

Okay. How many times did President Trump's appear in the Epstein files? More than 100, more than 1,000?

Kash Patel (02:20:44):

No. And what we've been able to release is what we've been legally able to release, and that has been [inaudible 02:20:50]

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:49):

No, that's not the question I asked you. How many times did the President's name appear?

Kash Patel (02:20:53):

I don't know.

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:54):

It's your testimony you do not know that answer?

Kash Patel (02:20:57):

The number of times? No.

Zoe Lofgren (02:20:59):

Could you tell us how many agents were diverted for this task and what they were working on?

Kash Patel (02:21:04):

Well, when you say diverted, you make it seem as if agents were pulled off what they do all the time. Agents at the FBI masterfully do double duty and triple duty. And because of the public's interest in this case, we flex resources to make sure that we could answer the public's signal demand. So do you want us to look through the material and provide it to you or you do not want us to do that which one is it?

Zoe Lofgren (02:21:28):

So it's your testimony that no one was diverted from a criminal matter, that this was a top priority to go through this material, to look for Mr. Trump's name. Is that your testimony, that's the highest priority for the FBI?

Kash Patel (02:21:42):

What's one of the most impressive things about the FBI leadership and the careers that are in place is that they make the decisions on who to send where on priorities and make sure the mission needs are not hurt. And that's what happened here.

Zoe Lofgren (02:21:55):

It's shocking to me that the FBI would think that erasing Mr. Trump's name from the Epstein files is a high priority when we have crime, we have national security threats, we have terrorism threats, we have murders such as that that occurred unfortunately with Mr. Kirk. It's shocking to hear that that's your highest priority. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Kash Patel (02:22:22):

That's literally not what I said.

Chair (02:22:26):

The gentlelady yields back. Gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized.

Speaker 5 (02:22:29):

Director, is President Trump implicated in any wrongdoing related to Jeffrey Epstein?

Kash Patel (02:22:37):

Based on the entirety of the evidence that we have, absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (02:22:40):

The president is not implicated?

Kash Patel (02:22:43):

Correct.

Speaker 5 (02:22:45):

Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about China's malign influence here in America. And we've seen spy balloons traverse the United States. We've seen police stations in communities around America. And sitting in the chair you're in just two years ago, there was a sheriff from Cochise County, Arizona, Mark Dannels that was here, who said that the exponential increase in the amount of fentanyl that is coming into America is directly related to the open borders policies of the previous administration. Do you agree with Sheriff Dannels characterization?

Kash Patel (02:23:23):

In large part, yes. So since you've been director, has there been a reduction with… I mean we've talked about how the border is largely secure now, right?

Speaker 5 (02:23:34):

The southern border, yes, sir.

Kash Patel (02:23:35):

The southern border is largely secure.

Speaker 5 (02:23:37):

Has there been a concomitant reduction or a reduction in the amount of fentanyl that is coming into America?

Kash Patel (02:23:43):

There has been a massive reduction to the tune of, we have seized more than 25% year to date this year than the prior year. And that's enough fentanyl to kill 120 million Americans.

Speaker 5 (02:23:53):

Does China play a role in this fentanyl that's coming to America?

Kash Patel (02:23:57):

As I stated in my opening, sir, what they do and the companies in China, mainland China do is produce the precursors and the cutting agents that they send ship overseas through various countries into the Mexican drug cartels who produce it. So they basically are the cooks in terms of the ingredients.

Speaker 5 (02:24:13):

Tell us what is the FBI doing to stop China from delivering death to America?

Kash Patel (02:24:19):

So for the first time in a decade, I actually reached out to my counterpart at the Ministry of Public Security. No one at the FBI had done so, to engage-

Speaker 5 (02:24:27):

Ministry of security. Where is that?

Kash Patel (02:24:29):

In mainland China.

Speaker 5 (02:24:30):

In mainland. Okay. Thank you.

Kash Patel (02:24:31):

To engage in a conversation to say, "Hey, can we have a certain number of these precursor chemicals listed in China so that they become illegal and illegal to trade?" We've also working with our counterparts in places like India and Guatemala because the transshipment routes of the precursors, the Mexican drug cartels have gotten creative. And instead of coming directly to America or going into these countries. And we've had massive success in India and Guatemala. And in those governments, great partnerships in shutting down the ability to ship the precursors into those countries which are ultimately destined to America.

Speaker 5 (02:25:03):

So those people that are working with security agencies have been working with you, is that accurate?

Kash Patel (02:25:08):

Yes, sir.

Speaker 5 (02:25:10):

So I'm going to turn to a couple cases that are at the University of Michigan where Chinese nationals on behalf of the Chinese government smuggled in illicit biological materials, stuff that can harm our agricultural industry. What actions are you taking as we see repeated stories of Chinese nationals doing this in the United States?

Kash Patel (02:25:35):

So just that, sir, in this calendar year alone, as I was mentioning, our counterintelligence operations and cases brought against the Chinese are up by I think something like 40%. And specifically the cases in Michigan show two threat streams, not just against our agricultural industry, which is a threat to national security, but they were also bringing in chemical agents and mushrooms, I'm not the exact expert, that would've ultimately hurt our population. We arrested and charged all of those individuals and we were aggressively going after them in every single state because they weren't doing it in Michigan alone.

Speaker 5 (02:26:07):

Should research universities across the United States be doing a thorough job of vetting Chinese nationals that are coming to their universities?

Kash Patel (02:26:16):

They should.

Speaker 5 (02:26:19):

Turning to spying in America, we heard the stories about Senator Dianne Feinstein's driver who was a Chinese spy. We're familiar with Linda's Sun, who worked in Governor Hochul's office, Christine Fang in California. What are you doing to find these people who are Chinese spies that are trying to burrow themselves into the politics of America? Because we know it's happening, right?

Kash Patel (02:26:49):

Yes, it is. And what our counterintelligence unit is doing is aggressively seeking the intelligence into where these individuals are working. Then we are utilizing our operational authorities to go in and investigate them either through our human source networks and collecting information through lawful process, online search warrants and data so that we can bring proper arrest charges and publicize to the world what they're doing here. And just because we've caught a few, doesn't mean we've caught everybody. We've got a lot more to go.

Speaker 5 (02:27:21):

I get one more quick question in. The FBI arrested a judge in Wisconsin, Hannah Dugan, for interfering with a federal law enforcement operation. Could you tell us a little bit about that? And is a judge above the law here in the United States of America?

Kash Patel (02:27:35):

Well, no one is, and that case is ongoing, but as you stated in these allegations that there was an interference in a lawfully executed federal law enforcement priority that was interfered with.

Speaker 5 (02:27:46):

I yield back, Mister-

Chair (02:27:46):

Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Tennessee is recognized.

Speaker 7 (02:27:49):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Director Patel, I believe you had primary importance in starting Operation Viper in Memphis. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (02:27:59):

Yes, sir.

Speaker 7 (02:27:59):

And Operation Viper brought in the FBI, the DEA, the ATF, to help Memphis Police in policing the city.

Kash Patel (02:28:09):

That'll be phase two, sir. Phase one was FBI and local law enforcement in Memphis for the last few months.

Speaker 7 (02:28:15):

Okay. You did a good job. And police director and the mayor have told me that that was been helpful, the FBI working with the police. And the FBI are trained in law enforcement. They know Miranda Rights, they know how to do policing and they do a good job working with the police. Do you think that the National Guard is necessary to do the work that the FBI is doing now?

Kash Patel (02:28:41):

Thank you. I do think it's necessary to finish it. What we've done is 500 arrests in Memphis and 110 federal indictments. But what we need to do is we've only secured a piece of where the criminal conduct is incurring in Memphis. And we can't work inside perimeters that are not established and safe and we don't have the manpower to give us the space to fully go into the areas where the criminal activity remains.

Speaker 7 (02:29:03):

Well, are you suggesting that the National Guard is going to go into the heavily crimed areas?

Kash Patel (02:29:10):

They're going to establish, like they did in Washington DC, perimeters where local law enforcement and the FBI, DEA, ATF and US Marshals can go into. We can't be going into all these areas knowing that they're extremely volatile and jeopardizing the safety of our agents.

Speaker 7 (02:29:27):

Would did the National Guard do anything in Washington to help the FBI stay safe from these dangerous elements?

Kash Patel (02:29:35):

They established perimeters.

Speaker 7 (02:29:37):

Established perimeters. And the criminals knew about it so they-

Kash Patel (02:29:40):

It was a visible force, sir. So they saw it.

Speaker 7 (02:29:43):

Well, what you did, I commend you for what you did. And I think the FBI coming in, we have a crime problem in Memphis. The FBI has helped. DEA will help and the ATF will help. I don't think the National Guard's going to help. And what I've seen, they're not trained in law enforcement, are they?

Kash Patel (02:29:57):

No, sir.

Speaker 7 (02:29:58):

And so that could be a problem. Who will direct the National Guard in Memphis? Will they have control over your agents?

Kash Patel (02:30:06):

No, sir. They won't.

Speaker 7 (02:30:06):

Who will have control over your agency? You?

Kash Patel (02:30:10):

Well, the SAC and then ultimately the chain of command up to Washington DC will control the FBI. But there's a task force that was put together that is going to be led by an inter-agency. The heads of US Marshals, DEA and FBI will be working together with DHS collectively on this.

Speaker 7 (02:30:25):

Have you visited Memphis before?

Kash Patel (02:30:28):

Yes sir. I have.

Speaker 7 (02:30:29):

So you know how good a city it is?

Kash Patel (02:30:30):

I love Memphis.

Speaker 7 (02:30:32):

A lot of us do. And Memphis is a great city, great history, Civil Rights Museum, might say something about slavery, but that was the history. It needs to be taught. Blues, Elvis-

Kash Patel (02:30:45):

Beale Street.

Speaker 7 (02:30:45):

Beale Street, right. Barbecue and people should come. It's not a troubled city. We've got some crime, but it's not a troubled city. We're not troubled and we love our city. And we hope that the National Guard doesn't come in and cause people to have questions about Memphis because it's a city they should visit. Let me ask you this about… You said that the homicide rates are coming down to an all-time low?

Kash Patel (02:31:06):

In modern recorded US history. Yes, sir.

Speaker 7 (02:31:07):

When does modern recorded history start?

Kash Patel (02:31:10):

I think the FBI, and I'll get back to you on this, has stats on that going back about 30 years, sir.

Speaker 7 (02:31:15):

Okay. I was thinking back to Ozzie and Harriet and I didn't think you could beat Ozzie and Harriet's time. Secondly, you mentioned the Epstein case. Did any of the women that were victims and they came up here and had a press conference and all, did any of them contact your office and ask to give information?

Kash Patel (02:31:33):

To my knowledge, no sir.

Speaker 7 (02:31:35):

If they did… Let me ask you first, is there a statute of limitations on sex crimes like that with sex with a minor, rape?

Kash Patel (02:31:43):

The DOJ is the expert, but I do not believe there's limitations on that.

Speaker 7 (02:31:48):

So there's not a statute of limitations. Should you not be interviewing those people who know who raped them and the names and the places and give you that information? That seems like that's a treasure trove of information. It's a serious, serious, serious number of crimes.

Kash Patel (02:32:01):

Sir, I couldn't agree with you more. We've been very public about asking individuals to come forward with new information and we would run out every single lead on that.

Speaker 7 (02:32:09):

Well, I'm sure the women will come forward, especially today, to assure that they will get an opportunity that seems like something we ought to do. Mr. Driscoll, what was his reputation?

Kash Patel (02:32:23):

I can't comment on Mr. Driscoll's matter. It's an ongoing litigation.

Speaker 7 (02:32:26):

Yeah, but his reputation you can tell us about.

Kash Patel (02:32:29):

I can't tell you about his reputation. His work has been laid out in that lawsuit.

Speaker 7 (02:32:36):

How many of the FBI agents who worked on the January 6th case have been fired?

Kash Patel (02:32:43):

I don't have that number sir.

Speaker 7 (02:32:45):

Do you have a ballpark figure?

Kash Patel (02:32:46):

No. But I can tell you that individuals based on case assignments in the FBI that I have led have not been terminated for case assignments.

Speaker 7 (02:32:54):

Thank you, sir. Come back to Memphis. And did you work with Kevin Kane in our tourism bureau?

Kash Patel (02:32:59):

Yeah. He's great. Thank you.

Speaker 7 (02:33:00):

And thank you for your work in Memphis. Gentleman yields back to the floor.

Speaker 8 (02:33:02):

Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request.

Chair (02:33:05):

Gentleman's recognized.

Speaker 8 (02:33:06):

So I've got four documents I'd like to introduce into the record. The first one is Jeffrey Epstein's six-story played out for years in plain sight. And Acosta is quoted in here saying, "I was told Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone."

(02:33:22)
The second document is entitled What Epstein's Bodyguard Warned about His CIA Connections. The third document is from Fox Digital. It's titled Epstein's Private Calendar Reveals Planned Meetings with Obama Admin Official CIA Chief.

(02:33:43)
And the last document is Wall Street Journal article that highlights Ehud Barak's 36 meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. He was the former prime minister of Israel and head of military intelligence for Israel.

Chair (02:33:57):

Without objection-

Speaker 8 (02:33:58):

It may have held that title when he met Epstein. Yes.

Chair (02:34:02):

Objection. The gentleman will hold for a second. The gentleman from Maryland is recognized.

Speaker 6 (02:34:06):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one UC request. This is Judge Engelman's decision from August and US versus Epstein stating the government's 100,000 pages of Epstein files dwarfs the 70-odd pages of Epstein grand jury materials.

Chair (02:34:21):

Without objection, the gentleman from Kentucky is recognized for five minutes.

Speaker 8 (02:34:25):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, I watched some of your Senate hearing yesterday when Senator Kennedy asked you, "You've seen most of the files. Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these women to besides himself?" You replied according to the transcript, "There is no credible information that he trafficked them to anyone else."

(02:34:45)
You also said somewhere in the hearing and here today that the problem is that the case files are constrained by limited warrants from 2006 to 2007 and that the non-prosecution agreement hamstrung future investigations. Those constraints only apply to Southern District of Florida. They do not apply to Southern District of New York, the location of the 2019 sex trafficking indictment, which produced many things including a series of FD-302 documents. According to victims who cooperated with the FBI and that investigation, these documents in FBI possession, your possession, detail at least 20 men including Mr. Jes Staley, CEO of Barclays Bank who Jeffrey Epstein trafficked victims to. Victims including minors such as Virginia Roberts Giuffre. May she rest in peace.

(02:35:37)
That list also includes at least 19 other individuals. One Hollywood producer worth a few hundred million dollars, one royal prince, one high profile individual in the music industry, one very prominent banker, one high profile government official, one high profile former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rock star, one magician, at least six billionaires including a billionaire from Canada. We know these people exist in the FBI files, the files that you control. I don't know exactly who they are, but the FBI does. Have you launched any investigations into any of these people and have you seen these 302 documents?

Kash Patel (02:36:20):

Sir, I have asked my FBI agents to review the entirety of the Epstein files and bring forth any credible information. And we're working with Congress not only to divulge that information and produce it to you, but any investigations that arise from any credible investigation will be brought. There have been no new materials brought to me launching a new indictment.

Speaker 8 (02:36:41):

So is the loophole here or is it your assertion that these victims aren't credible? That the 302s maybe didn't produce credible statements that rise to a probable cause?

Kash Patel (02:36:55):

It's not my assertion, sir. It's the assertion of two different United States attorney's offices from three separate administrations who investigated those same materials in lifetime.

Speaker 8 (02:37:05):

Are the 302 documents in the FBI's possession?

Kash Patel (02:37:09):

They reviewed all that. Yes sir.

Speaker 8 (02:37:11):

And so have you reviewed those 302 documents that were the victim's name, the people who victimized them?

Kash Patel (02:37:18):

Have I personally? no,, but the FBI has.

Speaker 8 (02:37:22):

So how can you sit here and in front of the Senate and say there are no names?

Kash Patel (02:37:28):

I said all-

Speaker 8 (02:37:29):

I named one today.

Kash Patel (02:37:31):

I said, we are not in the practice of the Department of Justice and FBI of releasing victims' names. That is not what we do. We are also not in the habit of releasing incredible information. That's not what we do. But multiple authorities have looked at the entirety of what we have.

Speaker 8 (02:37:48):

Okay, I got to move on here. Were you present when the AG had the White House event when she released the binders to the social media influencers?

Kash Patel (02:37:56):

I was, yes.

Speaker 8 (02:37:57):

So if you are willing to meet with social media influencers who stood to benefit from the sensational, sad stories of these victims, will you meet with the victims as well?

Kash Patel (02:38:07):

The FBI will meet with anyone who has new information.

Speaker 8 (02:38:10):

Will you personally meet with them?

Kash Patel (02:38:12):

The FBI and the professionals who are handling the cases will.

Speaker 8 (02:38:16):

Were you instructed that it was important to release the documents to the Oversight Committee on the day of my introduction of the discharge petition to release these files?

Kash Patel (02:38:26):

I don't know what day that was, so no.

Speaker 8 (02:38:28):

Well, they were released that day and there were victims' names who weren't redacted because they were in such a rush and the victims are not happy about that. Have you investigated any of the CIA connections? Have you seen the CIA file on Jeffrey Epstein? And if you wanted to see it, would they show it to you?

Kash Patel (02:38:47):

Well, I can speak for the FBI and that's presuming there's a CIA case file. And I've reviewed everything that the inter-agency, not I, the FBI that was provided to us.

Speaker 8 (02:38:58):

Would you be willing to look at the CIA file on Jeffrey Epstein?

Kash Patel (02:39:01):

If there is such a file and if it has not already been turned over to the FBI, the FBI will look at any new investigative leads.

Speaker 8 (02:39:09):

Have you made any progress on the pipe bomb investigation, January 6th? And have you made any progress on the motive of the Las Vegas shooter?

Kash Patel (02:39:19):

As to the first, it's an ongoing investigation and we have made progress. As to the second, sir, I'll have to get back to you.

Speaker 8 (02:39:26):

All right. Thank you. I yield back.

Speaker 9 (02:39:28):

Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request.

Chair (02:39:29):

Gentleman yields back. Unanimous consent request from the gentleman from New York.

Speaker 9 (02:39:31):

I asked unanimous consent to introduce an unsigned memorandum from July 7, 2025 that says, "We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties with the insignia of the Department of Justice and the FBI."

Chair (02:39:47):

Objection.

Speaker 10 (02:39:48):

Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous-

Chair (02:39:50):

Gentleman from Georgia.

Speaker 10 (02:39:51):

… consent request. It's a article entitled DOJ Deletes Study Showing Domestic Terrorists are Most Often Right Wing.

Chair (02:40:02):

Objection.

Speaker 10 (02:40:03):

Thank you.

Chair (02:40:06):

The gentleman from Georgia is recognized for five minutes.

Speaker 10 (02:40:09):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, thank you for being here today. I want to first talk about the significant role that the FBI plays in combating the national security threats posed by our nation's greatest threat, our nation's greatest security threat, China and the Chinese Communist Party. It's a fact that China is America's most significant national security threat. Isn't that correct?

Kash Patel (02:40:45):

I would say so, sir.

Speaker 10 (02:40:47):

And you would agree with me that China wants to dominate the United States of America?

Kash Patel (02:40:54):

I think that's largely their plan.

Speaker 10 (02:40:55):

And they want to dominate the world both militarily and economically. Isn't that correct?

Kash Patel (02:41:04):

I think so.

Speaker 10 (02:41:05):

And sir, you've been FBI director for the last, what, eight months?

Kash Patel (02:41:11):

Seven months. Yes.

Speaker 10 (02:41:12):

Seven months. And during that time, have you held any stock in any companies founded in China?

Kash Patel (02:41:21):

I don't believe so.

Speaker 10 (02:41:22):

Well, you do own stock in a company known as Elite Depot, don't you?

Kash Patel (02:41:28):

Which one, sorry?

Speaker 10 (02:41:29):

Elite Depot. You own stock?

Kash Patel (02:41:33):

I think that's, I'll have to get back to you. I think it's a law firm and it's a company out of Singapore.

Speaker 10 (02:41:38):

Okay. Well, no, the company out of Singapore, which is owned by Elite Depot is the Shein company which was founded in China. Correct?

Kash Patel (02:41:51):

That company operates out of Taiwan.

Speaker 10 (02:41:53):

Well, they changed their headquarters from China back in 2022 to Singapore for tax purposes, but it's owned by a Chinese billionaire. I think his name is Charlie Zuth. And you own stock in the company that owns Shein.

Kash Patel (02:42:14):

Which I disclosed during my confirmation process.

Speaker 10 (02:42:16):

Yes, you certainly did. And now do you still hold that stock in that Chinese company?

Kash Patel (02:42:24):

Pursuant to the Department of Justice who reviewed my material that was submitted during my confirmation process, I was able to hold certain stocks and they made the decision.

Speaker 10 (02:42:36):

Do you still hold the stocks that you have? You still hold on to these Chinese stocks, these stocks in this Chinese company?

Kash Patel (02:42:46):

I disagree that it's a Chinese company, but I was… The DOJ when you're appointed makes a call on what you can and can't possess.

Speaker 10 (02:42:54):

Well, now let me ask you this. Chinese companies steal trademarks. They produce counterfeit products and sell them over the internet on platforms such as Shein. They steal intellectual property, they steal data from American companies. And to me it seems inconsistent with your role as FBI director that you would own stock in a company that is based in a country that is the nation's premier national security threat. It's like you are putting your own financial security over the security of the nation.

Kash Patel (02:43:37):

I disagree with that characterization.

Speaker 10 (02:43:38):

Well, I think the American people look at it like it's a classic situation of the fox guarding the hen house. If the FBI is charged with investigating economic espionage by companies controlled by the Chinese Communist Party and you are the director of the FBI, you've got a conflict of interest.

Kash Patel (02:44:06):

Sir, I would just show if there's any intimation that I'm against-

Speaker 10 (02:44:12):

Why are you holding on to this stock?

Kash Patel (02:44:14):

It wasn't a decision I made.

Speaker 10 (02:44:16):

And it's valued at up to $5 million as of when you last reported, correct? $5 million in stock?

Kash Patel (02:44:24):

No, I don't follow it. The department-

Speaker 10 (02:44:25):

You don't follow it, but you're still making money off of it.

Kash Patel (02:44:29):

I don't have any money off of anything.

Speaker 10 (02:44:31):

Well, you-

Kash Patel (02:44:31):

What I have done-

Speaker 10 (02:44:32):

Trump's trade policies directly impact the value of that Chinese stock. Won't you agree with that?

Kash Patel (02:44:42):

Which trade policy? I'm not a trade expert.

Speaker 10 (02:44:43):

Okay, all right.

Kash Patel (02:44:45):

But I want to tell you this.

Speaker 10 (02:44:45):

You're playing crazy on me today. Let me ask you this question. Why are you hiding pedophiles? Why are you shielding pedophiles? Why are you protecting pedophiles?

Kash Patel (02:44:59):

That is maybe the most offensive thing you could say to me given the numbers-

Speaker 10 (02:45:04):

Well, you have not released the Epstein files.

Kash Patel (02:45:07):

… of pedophiles we have arrested.

Speaker 10 (02:45:08):

You were aware of the FD client list that was published in the 18,000 [inaudible 02:45:14]

Chair (02:45:14):

The gentleman has expired. The gentleman yields back.

Speaker 10 (02:45:17):

Can I answer the question?

Kash Patel (02:45:19):

Can I just respond?

Chair (02:45:19):

Of course the gentleman can answer the question.

Kash Patel (02:45:21):

Since I took over the FBI, there has been a 33% increase to counter-

Speaker 10 (02:45:25):

Sir, all of that started under Christopher Wray.

Chair (02:45:27):

Your time is done. But-

Kash Patel (02:45:28):

No, it didn't.

Chair (02:45:29):

… the witness gets into the question.

Speaker 10 (02:45:30):

All of that's done and under the previous-

Chair (02:45:31):

And then we'll go to our next [inaudible 02:45:33]

Speaker 10 (02:45:32):

… FBI director, sir. And you're coming in here trying to take credit for something that a previous director-

Chair (02:45:38):

Gentleman, settle down.

Speaker 10 (02:45:39):

… instituted and largely brought to conclusion.

Kash Patel (02:45:40):

I take no credit.

Chair (02:45:41):

I think it's been made clear that the director-

Speaker 10 (02:45:43):

It's offensive. And it's incorrect also.

Chair (02:45:44):

… has numbers are so much better than the previous director.

Speaker 10 (02:45:49):

It's deceptive.

Chair (02:45:49):

Dr. Patel, if you want to answer the question.

Kash Patel (02:45:50):

I take no credit. The men and women of the FBI have seen a 33% increase in the number of counterintelligence arrests out of the PRC.

Speaker 10 (02:45:57):

It's all of a sudden when you coming in seven months ago [inaudible 02:46:02]-

Chair (02:46:01):

Gentleman's time has expired.

Kash Patel (02:46:02):

And on the pedophile accusation-

Speaker 10 (02:46:02):

… for that.

Kash Patel (02:46:02):

… we have arrested 1,500 child predators in the last seven months. More than anyone else.

Speaker 10 (02:46:11):

Under investigations initiated by the prior directorship.

Chair (02:46:15):

We appreciate the director's good work and we really appreciate that the time the gentleman has expired. We now go to the gentleman from Texas.

Mr. Roy (02:46:21):

I thank the chairman, I thank the FBI director for coming before the committee. I assume the FBI director, Mr. Patel. I believe you probably agree with me that there's a significant organized effort on the left side of the political spectrum to advance criminal organizations being able to put more criminals out on the streets. And that what we've seen seen this in daily action. Are you familiar with the report that came out this last Monday from the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund?

Kash Patel (02:46:49):

I'm not familiar with that. Sorry.

Mr. Roy (02:46:51):

So this report came out this past Monday and it said that significant amount of the money flowing out of George Soros and other leftist organizations and funders has been funding DA's and prosecutors and quote, "many of these DA's had never managed an office prosecutor criminal case developed organizational policies. In dozens of America's largest cities and counties this report finds these progressive district attorneys have outsourced core parts of the American criminal justice system to activists and political donors, taking direction and advice on everything from staffing decisions and communications strategy." Organizations is a complex web of donors going in through these organizations to radical, I put radical DA's and prosecutors out there putting criminals on the streets. Does the FBI director agree that this exists and is a problem?

Kash Patel (02:47:43):

I'll accept the factual representation. And if that exists, it is a problem.

Mr. Roy (02:47:48):

The organization such as Tides, the Fair and Just Prosecution, Browner Center for Justice Partnership for Safety and Justice, the very Institute of Justice, the amount of dollars flowing from George Soros through into these organizations and into the various prosecutors that have resulted in increased crime on our streets, including the brutal murder of the Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte.

(02:48:10)
I bring that up because that is one component of the problem. In addition, we have an organized effort targeting our border. The NGO's, the nonprofits and the deep pockets, the United Nations, charitable organizations, and a long list of over 250 organizations that the Center for Immigration Studies put out that lays out a complex web of organizations that were moving people into our country knowing that they're dangerous, knowing that they're criminal. Associated with taxpayer dollars flowing through the United Nations and donor dollars flowing through organizations including ostensibly religious ones, putting these dangerous individuals on the street that resulted in fentanyl in our communities, that resulted in the death of Jocelyn Nungaray, of hundreds, thousands, even as the director testified, 100,000 people dying from these narcotics every year. All of this in an organized effort. A complete effort by the radical left to use taxpayer dollars and these dollars to put people on our streets.

(02:49:16)
In addition, the extent to which we've seen now with the Southern Poverty Law Center and their hate map targeting, for example, the Family Research Council, where we had a shooting right here in DC over a decade ago. Putting Charlie Kirk, putting a target on TPUSA, Antifa, other radical organizations that are very specifically organized and targeting Conservatives and ordinary Americans.

(02:49:45)
Well, how about the organized effort to infiltrate our schools and advance a transgender agenda and advance a radical agenda? Perhaps one that we will see exposed further in the individual that actually shot Charlie Kirk. So here's my question. Will you as the director, and are you as the director pursuing all legal channels to follow the truth wherever it may lead on this organized effort, one? And two, do you agree that Congress should take all action necessary to expose this web of dollars that are flowing to undermine our way of life? I got another minute in my time that I'd like to hear from you on this topic broadly.

Kash Patel (02:50:27):

I'll keep it short. Investigatively speaking, we are doing the following. We are following the money. We are following the money in every organization, in every person that is violating the Federal Code. And it doesn't matter what your background or ideology is. We are following the money. We are using legal process to following that money, issuing subpoenas to follow that money, using grand juries to follow that money. And when we have results to recommend for prosecution to the Department of Justice, we will do that and we will continue to publicize documents through Congress, yes, when we make these findings,

Mr. Roy (02:50:58):

Mr. Chairman, I'd like AMOS consent to insert the record Outsourcing Justice by the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund that I alluded to before. I would ask the AMOS consent to add a 2024 list provided by the Center for Immigration Studies on these United Nations and other affiliated groups that are responsible, over 250 of them for moving individuals into our country in a coordinated effort.

(02:51:17)
I would like a unanimous consent to insert a letter that I sent that currently has 33 members of the United States House of Representatives have signed on it, calling for a special select committee to pursue the organized effort from the radical left to target our way of life and undermine our security by putting criminals on the street and having our borders being wide open and putting us in danger.

Chair (02:51:36):

Without objection.

Mr. Roy (02:51:36):

And with that, I would yield back.

Chair (02:51:38):

Without objection. Gentlemen yields back the-

Speaker 10 (02:51:42):

Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of unanimous-

Chair (02:51:45):

Gentleman's request.

Speaker 10 (02:51:46):

One is a letter from Senator Tom Cotton dated last year urging the US to quote, "ensure that data from US companies is not harvested by the Chinese Communist Party through the purchase of Shein, software and technology."

Chair (02:52:06):

Objection.

Speaker 10 (02:52:07):

And also a statement by Marco Rubio. Then Senator Marco Rubio, which warned our UK allies about quote, "Shein's deep ties to the People's Republic of China."

Chair (02:52:27):

Without objection.

Speaker 10 (02:52:35):

Also, the record crime is down in 2025. Trump doesn't deserve credit, which demonstrates that the crime rates have been decreasing since 2023, which was published by the Vera Institute.

Chair (02:52:48):

Objection.

Speaker 10 (02:52:49):

Also a unanimous consent request to enter into the record a NPR, a report from July of 2024. GOP vows to make America safe against statistics contradict their growing crime claim.

Chair (02:53:10):

Without objection.

Speaker 10 (02:53:11):

Also, a report out of the American presidency project dated January 17, 2025. Record low crime during the Biden Harris administration.

Chair (02:53:26):

Without objection.

Speaker 10 (02:53:26):

Also, Joe Biden is correct that violent crime is near a 50-year low, which was a PolitiFact publication of May 2024. And last but not least, a FBI releases 2024 reported crimes in the nation, statistics. These are FBI statistics published on August 5th, 2025, which details decreases in murder, rape, aggregated assault and robbery in 2024.

Chair (02:54:02):

Without objection. Gentlemen from Kentucky's recognized for unanimous consent.

Speaker 8 (02:54:07):

Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit two sets of documents. The first is a series of emails from the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. They are making FOIA requests to get their own FBI files and not having any success. So I want to bring attention to that by submitting that to the record.

(02:54:25)
The second document that I want to submit to the record. For the record, I know we don't usually read these. This one's not readable. It's completely redacted for the most part, the first 50 pages. This is actually the search warrant that was served on James O'Keefe for a diary that he had already given to the government two months before. And as it turns out, there were no indictments here. Yet, he still doesn't know why he was raided and I think he deserves to know.

Chair (02:54:58):

Objection.

Speaker 8 (02:54:59):

Thank

Speaker 19 (02:54:59):

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman (02:55:00):

The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California.

Eric Swalwell (02:55:03):

Director, the first time you saw Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files. Did you close the files or keep reading?

Kash Patel (02:55:13):

I have reviewed not the entirety of the files. So, I-

Eric Swalwell (02:55:17):

So, you haven't reviewed all of the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:55:19):

Personally, no.

Eric Swalwell (02:55:21):

You're the Director of the FBI. This is the largest sex trafficking case the FBI has ever been a part of. Buck stops at the top and your testimony today is you have not reviewed all the files.

Kash Patel (02:55:31):

What I've been doing has been busy providing the safest country this country has seen in modern US history in historic speed because the men and women of the FBI are given the resources to reduce the homicide rates, to reduce the drug trafficking rate, to reduce the amount of children that are being trafficked and the number of pedophiles that we have [inaudible 02:55:47] record high.

Eric Swalwell (02:55:46):

Sounds like those children being trafficked would appreciate the director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files, so it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right?

Kash Patel (02:55:58):

The number is a total misleading factor. We have not released anyone's name-

Eric Swalwell (02:56:05):

But the number at least could be a thousand times.

Kash Patel (02:56:05):

We have not released anyone's name in the Epstein files that has not been credible.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:07):

Director, could at least be a thousand times.

Kash Patel (02:56:08):

We have released every piece of legally permissible information. You can characterize the numbers however you want it.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:14):

Reclaiming my time, director. It sounds like if you don't know the number, it could at least be a thousand times, which needs to be-

Kash Patel (02:56:20):

It's not. It's not.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:21):

Is it at least 500 times?

Kash Patel (02:56:22):

No.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:23):

Is it at least a hundred times?

Kash Patel (02:56:24):

No.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:24):

Then what's the number?

Kash Patel (02:56:25):

I don't know the number, but it's not that.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:27):

Do you think it might be your job to know the number?

Kash Patel (02:56:30):

My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country. My job is not to engage in political innuendo…

Eric Swalwell (02:56:35):

Not included to protect the sex assault victims.

Kash Patel (02:56:36):

… So you can go out to the sticks and get your 22nd hit and your fundraising article.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:40):

So, reclaiming my time, director.

Kash Patel (02:56:40):

Keep going. Reclaiming your time because the people of California are being underserved by your representation.

Eric Swalwell (02:56:46):

If president is not implicated, why not release everything that involves?

Kash Patel (02:56:49):

We have released everything the president and anyone else's side that is credible and lawfully be able to be released. Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm hiding in is disgusting.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:02):

It's also in Mr. Massie's interest.

Kash Patel (02:57:03):

Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone and go back to the state of California, who's receiving the biggest surge in FBI resources through my redeployment because the cities of Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco needed.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:14):

Reclaiming my time, director. Remembering your oath to tell the truth, did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files?

Kash Patel (02:57:21):

I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:25):

Did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:57:30):

The Attorney General and I have had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein files and the reviews conducted by our teams.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:35):

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:57:38):

And we have released where President Trump's name is in the attorney's file.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:40):

It's a simple question. Did you tell the Attorney General that the president's name is in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:57:45):

During many conversations that the Attorney General and I have had on the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed.

Eric Swalwell (02:57:54):

The question is simple. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Yes or no?

Kash Patel (02:57:59):

Why don't you try spelling it out if you're going to mock?

Eric Swalwell (02:58:01):

Yes or no, director?

Kash Patel (02:58:02):

Use the alphabet.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:02):

Yes or no?

Kash Patel (02:58:03):

No, A, B, C, D, E, F.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:04):

Director, it sounds like you don't want to tell us. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:58:10):

Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country…

Eric Swalwell (02:58:15):

Director, did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name-

Kash Patel (02:58:16):

… And the number of pedophiles that are legally harbored in sanctuary cities in California?

Eric Swalwell (02:58:20):

Director, reclaiming my time.

Kash Patel (02:58:22):

…. I'll work with you on that.

Speaker 12 (02:58:22):

Regular order, Mr. Chairman.

Kash Patel (02:58:24):

Do you want to work with us on that?

Eric Swalwell (02:58:24):

Director, reclaiming my time.

Mr. Chairman (02:58:25):

Time belongs to gentleman from California.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:26):

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:58:30):

The question has been asked and answered.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:31):

You have not answered it and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt. Director, did Donald Trump ever say to you, "Just find and release the entire truth, don't worry if I'm in it"?

Kash Patel (02:58:43):

The instructions from the administration were to release all credible information and we have done that.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:48):

Did Donald Trump ever provide information about Jeffrey Epstein as an informant?

Kash Patel (02:58:53):

Donald Trump has not been, and I can only speak for the FBI and informant of the FBI.

Eric Swalwell (02:58:57):

So, director, you've played this cute shell game where you say you can't release everything because the court has said that it legally is not allowed to be released, but the court calls bullshit. Judge Richard Berman said that when you went to the court, "Information contained in the Epstein Grand jury transcripts pales, pales in comparison to Epstein investigation information and materials in the hands of the Department of Justice." So, let's move on. Director, you wrote a book called Government Gangsters. You identified 20 individuals in that book. You put me on that list at the top of the list. Thank you. My children find it flattering. 20 of those individuals have been investigated or have had adverse actions. Director, considering that you have identified these people as "government gangsters", will you recuse yourself from making any investigation decisions about these individuals?

Kash Patel (02:59:51):

Anyone that has been terminated at the FBI has been done, so-

Eric Swalwell (02:59:54):

No, no. The question again-

Kash Patel (02:59:55):

Failed to meet the muster and their constitutional obligation.

Eric Swalwell (02:59:57):

Director, I will work on the audiovisual capabilities-

Kash Patel (02:59:59):

No, no. I'm going to borrow your terminology and call bullshit on your entire career in Congress.

Eric Swalwell (03:00:04):

I'm reclaiming my time, director.

Kash Patel (03:00:05):

It been a disgrace to the American people.

Eric Swalwell (03:00:06):

Director, I'm reclaiming my time.

Kash Patel (03:00:07):

You can reclaim your time all you want. Mr. Chairman, you're going to allow a witness to speak this way?

Eric Swalwell (03:00:10):

Mr. Chairman, would you recuse yourself, director?

Mr. Chairman (03:00:14):

The gentleman has no time-

Eric Swalwell (03:00:15):

Mr. Chairman, would you admonish the witness not to insult members?

Mr. Chairman (03:00:18):

Gentleman has no time.

Speaker 12 (03:00:19):

Mr. Chairman-

Mr. Chairman (03:00:20):

Committee will remember.

Speaker 12 (03:00:21):

Pick point of order. Could the gentleman be extended an additional 20 seconds to complete his thoughts since the witness decided to interrupt him continuously?

Mr. Chairman (03:00:29):

And the witness will be able to respond if he wants. We'll make sure he has time to do that.

Eric Swalwell (03:00:32):

My question is…

Mr. Chairman (03:00:32):

Continue.

Eric Swalwell (03:00:33):

Will you, director, recuse yourself, yes or no, from investigating or making decisions about the 60 individuals including myself that you identified as government gangsters? Yes or no?

Mr. Chairman (03:00:44):

Time of the gentleman has expired. The witness may respond if he would like.

Eric Swalwell (03:00:48):

And the answer was no, as I heard.

Kash Patel (03:00:51):

Correct.

Mr. Chairman (03:00:51):

Okay. The gentleman from Wisconsin, the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized for five minutes.

Speaker 13 (03:00:56):

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Director Patel, for being here today. I wanted to talk a little bit about the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the FBI's subsequent investigation. I know it's really sensitive and you can make the call as to whether or not, obviously it's something that you can respond to, but I think it's still fresh on many people's minds. I want to congratulate you and Utah Law Enforcement for the work you did in identifying the suspect and apprehending him. According to public reports, and I think this is what maybe it's, I still have questions about and maybe the public does. According to public reports, the alleged shooter arrives on the Utah Valley University campus nearly four hours before the shooting. Was that your understanding? Is that-

Kash Patel (03:01:52):

I'll let the public reports reflect themselves. I don't have the exact timeline.

Speaker 13 (03:01:55):

Okay, so we don't have any idea, his prep or how he set up or how he utilized that time when he first showed up on campus?

Kash Patel (03:02:03):

All of those are being currently investigated through our cell phone analysis and through our witness interviews and the state of Utah is now announced charges seeking the death penalty against his suspects. So, we're a little limited in what we can continue to say.

Speaker 13 (03:02:14):

Sure, I understand. And that suspect, like you referred to, is then captured on security footage jumping off the roof of the alleged shooting location, the Losee Center. Do we have any idea how the suspect got up on the roof, in the first place? I think for members of Congress, especially after Butler in Pennsylvania, it's just unimaginable that there could be some type of security breakdown prior to an event of that size where somebody could access a rooftop.

Kash Patel (03:02:46):

So, not commenting on the case, but having gone to the crime scene and walked the steps that we believe were taken, the roof was actually readily accessible through an exterior stairwell, so anyone could have gotten on it.

Speaker 13 (03:02:59):

Okay. Okay. The suspect flees on foot to this wooded area where he drops the rifle, wraps it in a towel and then proceeds to his staged vehicle and basically drives home. So, do we have any idea what the towel was about? Was it used later to identify a place where the firearm was left or?

Kash Patel (03:03:24):

Well, sorry, what we can tell you is the towel. There was a screwdriver found on the rooftop which DNA was collected off of and the towel was found wrapped around the firearm in question in a wooded area next to the campus. All have been processed for DNA.

Speaker 13 (03:03:40):

And then according to the suspect's roommate, there were allegedly messages on instant messaging platforms, specifically Discord, suggesting the towel may have been used to identify that weapons location. So, the public reports have suggested that the shooter acted alone. Do we still believe that that's true? Do we have any idea as to whether or not those Discord messages led us to believe that the shooter may have had help in any way or assistance?

Kash Patel (03:04:12):

I can only speak to the FBI's investigation and our investigation is ongoing and we are interviewing any of those individuals involved in that chat and other individuals in the area.

Speaker 13 (03:04:22):

Very good. So, my suggestion if there are accomplices, I'm sure this is something that the FBI is going to continue to investigate fully and thoroughly into the future.

Kash Patel (03:04:36):

Yes, sir.

Speaker 13 (03:04:36):

The reason I ask that is because I don't know that that was necessarily the case with Butler, Pennsylvania, so thank you so much for your persistence in this matter. There's still a lot of public questions that need to be asked. Let me shift to another topic very quickly. On July 31st, 2025, the DOJ and the CIA declassified the annex to special counsel John Durham's 2023 report on Operation Crossfire Hurricane. The 29-page Durham annex contains previously classified information about among other things, the investigative referral of the Clinton campaign plan. Why would somebody place documents in a burn bag related to this case?

Kash Patel (03:05:23):

That case is very much ongoing, so I can't comment on this stylization of the evidence we're collecting.

Speaker 13 (03:05:29):

Can you comment at all on the Durham annex, as I described it?

Kash Patel (03:05:33):

The Durham annex, which has been publicly released, thanks to the FBI's commitment to transparency, is one of the documents that's being utilized and in general terms, speaking for burn bags, sir, a burn bag is what you use to put classified documents into generally because that is literally how you destroy them.

Speaker 13 (03:05:51):

So, it appears that efforts were made by the Clinton campaign to reach out to the FBI agents or the Clinton sympathizers in the intelligence community in order to lead more credibility to the Clinton campaign plan. Do you think that's an accurate characterization?

Kash Patel (03:06:08):

Again, I'm not going to characterize that material because it's part of an ongoing investigation.

Speaker 13 (03:06:14):

Thanks for being here today. I yield back.

Mr. Chairman (03:06:16):

Gentleman yields back. Gentleman from California is recognized.

Speaker 14 (03:06:20):

Thank you, Director Patel, for being here today. The FBI searched Jeffrey Epstein's Manhattan residence. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:06:28):

I believe that happened in 2018. I think there was two locations, sir.

Speaker 14 (03:06:33):

It was 2019 and in that residence, the FBI found a safe. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:06:38):

I don't have the catalog of evidence in front of me.

Speaker 14 (03:06:41):

In that residence, the FBI found a safe. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:06:44):

I'll accept your representation.

Speaker 14 (03:06:46):

Okay. And in that safe, the FBI found topless and lewd photographs of girls. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:06:54):

Again, sir, I'll accept your representation. I don't know.

Speaker 14 (03:06:56):

Thank you. It was all over the media at the time. There's a New York Times article that says Jeffrey Epstein is indicted on sex charges as discovery of nude photos is disclosed dated July 8th, 2019 and the Times reports a trove of nude photographs of girls was discovered in safe inside financier Jeffrey Epstein's Manhattan mansion. Author Michael Wolff has conducted numerous interviews of Jeffrey Epstein. I'm going to play for you a video clip of what Michael Wolff said Epstein told him was in the safe and what he showed the author was in this safe. So, let's please play that clip now.

Michael Wolff (03:07:33):

Trump had been elected. And I was sitting talking to Epstein and he said, "Wait a minute, I got to show you something." And then he went into his safe and he came out with photographs. They were Polaroids, I think, and he spread them out like playing cards and it was Trump. I think there were a dozen of them and it was Trump with girls of an uncertain age at Epstein's Palm Beach house where all of the things that he would ultimately be accused of took place. And I remember very vividly, three of them. There are two in which Trump is, the topless girls are sitting on Trump's lap and then a third in which he has a stain on the front of his pants and the girls are pointing at it, bent over laughing.

Speaker 14 (03:08:39):

So, Director Patel, I'm going to ask you a very broad and general question. As you know, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends. There are, of course, photos showing Donald Trump together with Epstein. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:08:51):

I don't have the entirety of the photographs, but I think they've been photographed in public together.

Speaker 14 (03:08:56):

All right. Are there any photos showing Donald Trump with girls of an uncertain age?

Kash Patel (03:09:01):

No.

Speaker 14 (03:09:03):

How do you know that?

Kash Patel (03:09:04):

Because that information would've been brought to light by multiple administrations and FBI investigators over the course of the last 20 years.

Speaker 14 (03:09:10):

Well, you know what? That's just not true because no one knew about the creepy birthday message that Donald Trump wrote to Jeffrey Epstein until the Wall Street Journal disclosed it and then all of a sudden, the Epstein estate provides it to Congress. Certainly, you weren't there at the search. You don't know what Epstein may or may not have done with those photographs even prior to the search? Maybe someone has it, maybe the Epstein estate has it.

Kash Patel (03:09:35):

You raise a great point.

Speaker 14 (03:09:36):

So, I'm going to ask you, have you asked to talk to Michael Wolff?

Kash Patel (03:09:41):

You raise a great point. I haven't personally asked to talk to Michael Wolff.

Speaker 14 (03:09:43):

Did the FBI asked-

Kash Patel (03:09:44):

But the FBI, I'll get back to you if the FBI specifically has ever-

Speaker 14 (03:09:48):

So, Michael has, about a hundred hours of testimony of Jeffrey, wouldn't it be good for the FBI to interview Michael Wolff?

Kash Patel (03:09:54):

I'm not saying they haven't. I just don't know.

Speaker 14 (03:09:57):

Has FBI subpoenaed the tapes that Michael Wolff has conducted of Jeffrey Epstein?

Kash Patel (03:10:01):

I don't know.

Speaker 14 (03:10:02):

All right, so if you could provide us an answer, that'll be terrific.

Kash Patel (03:10:05):

Sure.

Speaker 14 (03:10:06):

Well, let me ask you this question then. Have you looked at all the photos in Epstein files?

Kash Patel (03:10:13):

I have looked at all the information that the investigators who investigated this case have provided to run out credible leads.

Speaker 14 (03:10:22):

And in the Epstein files, was there that creepy birthday message that Donald Trump had written to Epstein?

Kash Patel (03:10:26):

No, that's what I was trying to tell you. You raise a great point. The estate of Jeffrey Epstein has a voluminous amount of information that they have not released before.

Speaker 14 (03:10:34):

Okay, so that's great. So, wouldn't it be great if FBI subpoenaed the estate of Jeffrey Epstein for all that information?

Kash Patel (03:10:40):

The estate is under no obligation to provide that material even pursuant to a subpoena. That's a great point.

Speaker 14 (03:10:46):

Yeah, that's just false.

Kash Patel (03:10:47):

Okay,

Speaker 14 (03:10:48):

That's just false. You're the fricking FBI. You can subpoena the information from the estate and you better do that.

Kash Patel (03:10:53):

That's literally not how it works.

Speaker 14 (03:10:54):

I'm going to move on now and talk about Epstein's client list. You confirmed that exists, Attorney General Pam Bondi confirmed earlier this year that exists. I just want to ask you a simple question. Is Prince Andrew on Epstein's client list?

Kash Patel (03:11:09):

The material related to Prince Andrew has been made public.

Speaker 14 (03:11:11):

Is Prince Andrew on the client list?

Kash Patel (03:11:13):

We have released the index of names that were in Jeffrey Epstein's-

Speaker 14 (03:11:17):

Is Donald Trump on Epstein's client list?

Kash Patel (03:11:19):

The index has been released and the index will speak for itself.

Speaker 14 (03:11:22):

So, I'm going to say America is a huge red flag. The FBI director could not answer whether Donald Trump was on Epstein's client list.

Mr. Chairman (03:11:30):

Gentleman's time has expired.

Speaker 14 (03:11:30):

I yield back.

Mr. Chairman (03:11:31):

I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia.

Speaker 15 (03:11:34):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the director for being here and for his work over the last several months, removing the taint of partisanship that has infected the intelligence community over the past several years under the last administration, under the last several directors standing up for law enforcement, standing up for the brave men and women who work in your agency. But to set the record straight, we have to correct the record and the record, early days of the first Trump administration saw a dramatic spike in news stories that contained sensitive and sometimes classified details about the FBI's bogus Russia probe about a leak a day. It's unacceptable that senior FBI officials coordinated to leak classified information to try and harm President Trump. Documents produced to the committee in August of this year reveal that the FBI interviewed a former intelligence committee staffer who gave details on a systematic process through which, leaks of classified information were affected by then chairman, now Senator Adam Schiff. Were these findings escalated within the bureau's chain of command and if so, to what level?

Kash Patel (03:12:40):

Sorry. Were the findings escalated?

Speaker 15 (03:12:42):

Were these findings that were given to us escalated within the bureau's chain of command and if so, what level? Did you receive information?

Kash Patel (03:12:50):

That entire matter is currently under investigation by the people of the FBI that handle leaks of classified information.

Speaker 15 (03:12:59):

All right. It's good to know that there is an ongoing investigation. Can you tell me whether these leaks to the media compromised any ongoing FBI investigations during the Trump-Russia probe?

Kash Patel (03:13:13):

I can tell you, generally speaking, the leaks of classified information are detrimental to any work the FBI is doing.

Speaker 15 (03:13:20):

Now, former Director James Comey testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee that he had never been in an anonymous source nor authorized anyone to be an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation. Was Comey's testimony true?

Kash Patel (03:13:34):

In reference to Director Comey, I'm very limited in what I can say because of what the current status of those matters are with the FBI and the Department of Justice. When I am able to make those public, I will.

Speaker 15 (03:13:47):

Can you tell me if there's an ongoing investigation there?

Kash Patel (03:13:50):

Again, without identifying any individuals related to the information you're generally speaking about, there is an ongoing matter that has been under review by the department of the FBI for some time.

Speaker 15 (03:14:02):

Because we know that the documents that we received last month revealed that former Director Comey used Columbia University law professor as a conduit to leak stories to the media that contained classified information. Let me move on to the way that the FISA process was weaponized by past directors. Prior to your confirmation you raised concerns about government misuse of FISA including section 702 stating that FISA was in need of major, major reform, specifically, you highlighted that the FISC report that the FBI had conducted 278,000 improper searches of the FISA database. Do you remain concerned about governmental abuse of FISA in section 702?

Kash Patel (03:14:40):

I'm always concerned, but what we've done since I became FBI director is implement new audit systems. We have nearing a hundred percent review of the 702 query system that you are specifically referring to and we've also eliminated anyone that has ever touched that database that has in any way made a mistake, whether intentional or not, and we have also identified a system in which those going forward, who misuse the 702 system, they don't get two strikes. They get one and you're done.

Speaker 15 (03:15:08):

Okay, I'm glad you mentioned you're continuing to audit because as you know, in May, the New York Times reported you closed the FBI's Office of Internal Auditing. Can you explain why you decided to close this office?

Kash Patel (03:15:20):

Yeah, because under the new restructuring of the FBI to save resources, there were two different places doing the exact same thing. We have a specific division dedicated to audits. I didn't need another audit system doing the audits again and so, we folded some of those folks with their expertise into our specific division and then took the rest of those folks and are moving them out across the country.

Speaker 15 (03:15:40):

Under previous FBI leadership, FBI agents were found to have lied to the FISC. There have been hundreds of thousands of violations of querying standards. In light of past violations, what action is the FBI taking to ensure that similar abuses do not occur in the future?

Kash Patel (03:15:54):

Exactly what I've outlined, you cannot have access to the 702 query system if you improperly queried that system at all at any time in your career.

Speaker 15 (03:16:05):

Okay. At a Senate hearing two years ago, your predecessor Director Wray testified FBI had previously purchased US phone geolocation data for a specific national security pilot project and further stated that the project had not been active for some time and that the FBI relies on court-authorized process to obtain location data from companies. Does the FBI purchase location data or any other data of Americans from data brokers?

Kash Patel (03:16:28):

I don't believe so, but I'll get back to you.

Speaker 15 (03:16:30):

Thank you. That'd be important. I appreciate that. I yield back.

Mr. Chairman (03:16:33):

Gentleman yields back. Gentlelady from Washington's recognized.

Speaker 16 (03:16:36):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Patel, before you joined the FBI, you had very strong opinions about what the FBI was hiding regarding Jeffrey Epstein. In a September 2023 interview with Glenn Beck, you said the black book is under the "direct control of the director of the FBI". In December 2023, you said, "Let us know who the pedophiles are." Even for a short time after becoming FBI director, in February of 2025, you tweeted, "There will be no cover-ups, no missing documents, no stone left unturned." In June, you told Joe Rogan, "We've reviewed all the information. We're going to give you every single thing we have and can," but then suddenly in July, everything changed. You and Attorney General Pam Bondi released one video and said that there was nothing more to see.

(03:17:24)
Your July memo says you uncovered more than 300 gigabytes of data and physical evidence, but that you had decided "no further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted". That is a quote. I think what happened Mr. Patel is that suddenly, you discovered that Donald Trump's name was all over these files and you started a giant cover-up. So, you are under oath, Mr. Patel. You just testified to Mr. Swalwell that you did not speak to the president about the Epstein files. To your knowledge, did Attorney General Pam Bondi speak to the president about what was in the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (03:18:08):

I can't speak for Attorney General Pam Bondi.

Speaker 16 (03:18:10):

So, to your knowledge, you don't have any information. The question was do you have any knowledge?

Kash Patel (03:18:15):

I can't speak-

Speaker 16 (03:18:16):

Do you have any knowledge?

Kash Patel (03:18:17):

I can't speak for Attorney General Pam Bondi.

Speaker 16 (03:18:18):

You are refusing to answer the question. So, let tell you that the Wall Street Journal reported that in May, Bondi told Trump that he was in the Epstein files and at the same meeting said that the DOJ did not plan to release the files. Yesterday, you testified to Senator Kennedy that there was "no credible information that Epstein trafficked girls to anyone else" and that you have "continuously and publicly ask the public to come forward with more information" and we'll look into it. Today, in response to Mr. Massie's question, you appear to say that the survivors were not credible. These are survivors. These-

Kash Patel (03:19:01):

That's not at all what I said.

Speaker 16 (03:19:02):

Okay, great. I'm going to ask you this in a second, but let me tell you about the survivors…

Kash Patel (03:19:06):

Don't lie about me.

Speaker 16 (03:19:06):

… And let's bring them up here into the room. These are women who came to the hill and testified that they were groomed and raped at the age of 14 and 16 years old and they called to meet with the president and to meet with the FBI and to have people investigate their claims. Some of them have never testified before. If you are so interested in getting the public to submit any information, why have you not met with them? You said you haven't met with them. Have you met with them? I'll give you one more chance.

Kash Patel (03:19:38):

My job as the FBI director is to invite all investigated leads-

Speaker 16 (03:19:43):

Is the answer yes or no to whether or not you met with these women who were sexually abused and raped?

Kash Patel (03:19:49):

Any insinuation by you or any people on your side that I am not manhunting child predators and sex traffickers. Just look at the stat…

Speaker 16 (03:19:57):

Mr. Patel-

Kash Patel (03:19:58):

… And you talk about cover-ups, ma'am. You talk about cover-ups.

Speaker 16 (03:19:59):

Mr. Chairman, this is my time and I will take as much time as I want.

Kash Patel (03:20:03):

Where were you during the Obama and Biden administrations when these so-called cover-ups were going on?

Speaker 16 (03:20:08):

Instruct the witness, Mr. Chairman.

Kash Patel (03:20:09):

Why does anyone in those administrations talk to any of these purported witnesses?

Speaker 16 (03:20:12):

Mr. Chairman-

Speaker 12 (03:20:13):

I have some regular order, Mr. Chairman.

Kash Patel (03:20:15):

I have welcomed every single person to provide credible information.

Mr. Chairman (03:20:17):

Time belongs to the gentle lady from Washington.

Speaker 16 (03:20:20):

And I'm going to take another couple of minutes.

Mr. Chairman (03:20:20):

You accuse the witness of something. He's allowed to respond. That's how it works.

Speaker 16 (03:20:24):

Listen, he didn't even… Excuse me, Mr. Chairman…

Speaker 12 (03:20:26):

Mr. Chairman, point of order.

Speaker 16 (03:20:27):

… You have always been fair, but this is not fair.

Mr. Chairman (03:20:30):

And I'm being fair and you will get your time.

Speaker 16 (03:20:31):

No, this is my time and he said that the witnesses were not credible.

Mr. Chairman (03:20:35):

We will give the gentlelady seconds of time.

Speaker 16 (03:20:36):

I'm going to get an additional minute of time because that's how much time he took.

Mr. Chairman (03:20:40):

No, you won't get a minute, you'll get some seconds, what we think is under five minutes. You don't get to demand how much time you get. That's not how it works.

Speaker 16 (03:20:47):

Mr. Patel, are the victims of the Jeffrey Epstein horrific trafficking ring, are they credible?

Kash Patel (03:20:57):

Any person with information about ongoing sexual trafficking-

Speaker 16 (03:21:02):

I'm asking you if they're credible.

Kash Patel (03:21:04):

Ma'am, I'm commenting on the evidence we have. We have routinely asked for people to come forward with more evidence and we will look at it and the evidence that we have was the same evidence that the Biden and Obama Justice Department's had and they determined, not me.

Speaker 16 (03:21:18):

Mr. Patel, this is new-

Kash Patel (03:21:18):

They determined that that information was not credible.

Speaker 16 (03:21:21):

Mr. Chairman, he's not letting me even ask my questions.

Mr. Chairman (03:21:23):

You asked the questions, he gives an answer. You may not like what he says, but that doesn't mean you get to interrupt him.

Speaker 16 (03:21:28):

No, I'm asking. He's not answering my question.

Speaker 12 (03:21:29):

Mr. Chairman, could we restore the gentle lady 45 seconds so she can [inaudible 03:21:32] her question?

Mr. Chairman (03:21:32):

We will give her additional 30 seconds, which is what I said earlier.

Speaker 16 (03:21:34):

I'm going to keep taking my time because he-

Mr. Chairman (03:21:36):

No, you'll take the time that you get. You get 30 seconds.

Speaker 16 (03:21:37):

You're not answering the question. The question is-

Kash Patel (03:21:41):

I have. You just don't like the answer.

Speaker 16 (03:21:43):

Are these women credible? It's a yes or no answer.

Kash Patel (03:21:46):

I have answered the question-

Speaker 16 (03:21:48):

Well, what is the answer?

Kash Patel (03:21:49):

I keep telling you, I'm the only FBI director that has welcomed new information in this case. This administration is the only one that has welcomed any new information in this case.

Speaker 16 (03:21:57):

Is there a yes or no to whether the victims are credible?

Kash Patel (03:22:00):

Present new credible information, present new information-

Speaker 16 (03:22:03):

Are the victims credible or not?

Kash Patel (03:22:06):

I'll tell you what happened in the last Trump administration.

Speaker 16 (03:22:09):

Are they credible or not? You can't even say-

Kash Patel (03:22:11):

Victims credibly came forward and you know what happened? President Trump authorized the indictments of Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 16 (03:22:15):

President Trump called them a hoax.

Kash Patel (03:22:16):

Not Biden, not Obama. No one else.

Speaker 16 (03:22:19):

President Trump called the entire thing a democratic hoax. So, I would like to ask you if you will meet-

Mr. Chairman (03:22:25):

The Gentlelady's time has expired. I gave her the additional 45 seconds she requested. The Gentlelady yields back. The gentleman from New Jersey is recognized for his five minutes.

Speaker 16 (03:22:34):

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask if you would meet with the women who were sexually abused and raped and groomed at the ages of 14 and 16 years old?

Mr. Chairman (03:22:39):

The time does not belong to the gentlelady from Washington.

Speaker 16 (03:22:44):

Are you going to cover up? Are you going to continue to cover up…

Mr. Chairman (03:22:44):

I'm going to recognize the gentleman from New Jersey for his five minutes.

Speaker 16 (03:22:50):

… for the rich and powerful men including those that might be on this committee or are you going to allow them to testify?

Speaker 17 (03:22:53):

I can yell, too, Mr. Chairman, but I don't want to yell for five minutes.

Mr. Chairman (03:22:56):

The time belongs to the gentleman from New Jersey. I appreciate you, gentlelady, yielding back.

Speaker 16 (03:23:01):

Are you going to allow them to testify, Mr. Patel?

Mr. Chairman (03:23:03):

Go ahead, Mr. [inaudible 03:23:04].

Speaker 16 (03:23:03):

Will you allow them to testify to you, Mr. Patel?

Speaker 17 (03:23:07):

Mr. Patel. Mr. Patel, thank you for being here. I know it's been interesting and difficult two days and I wasn't going to talk about the Epstein thing because there's a lot of other issues that affect the FBI, but I have to say a few words. I've sat here, I've listened to this, I've watched it, and my democratic colleagues are so concerned now, Mr. Patel. All of a sudden, where were they last year? Where were they the year before? Where were they the year before that? Where was the last president in any of this? Well, all I know, the only thing I see is a single letter from the ranking member that was sent in 2019 that he didn't like the plea deal and some people signed onto that. Most of the truth, the real truth, let's be honest, let's be intellectually honest. The real truth is we didn't hear from them at all.

(03:23:57)
Anybody of them, hardly any of them ever mentioned it. Some of them didn't mention it all until the beginning of this year, earlier in the year it started. Not one Democrat asked Director Wray. We all remember Director Wray was here. Not once, not twice, multiple times. Nobody asked Director Wray about Epstein before this committee. Nobody was that concerned. Where was the concern for the victims then? Where was the moral righteousness then? Where was the outrage then? Where was the sense of duty then? Where was the desire for accountability then? Where was the urgency for justice then? Most of all, where the hell was the integrity then? You know what the truth is. Let's just say it, man. Tell the truth, time. The truth is it's politically useful for them to try to do this now even though they didn't give a damn about it in the past.

(03:24:53)
And you know what? That's an insult to the victims and that's an insult to America. Continue to do the work you're doing, continue to uncover what needs to be uncovered. One real quick thing before I say anything to, 9/11, we know that was mishandled by the past director and by the past FBIs. There are family members here, there are family members who are concerned, God Almighty, we want to get to the truth of that. I ask you, please to meet with them, to talk to them, and to investigate this with truth.

(03:25:25)
In the Biden administration, we went through a very dark and difficult period of time. The FBI trust was broken with the people. Catholics were, this is the stuff we've been talking about. We're labeled radical threats for praying in their churches with their rosaries, parents at school boards were called terrorists for standing up for their children.

(03:25:44)
Hindu holy men in New Jersey, we have the largest Hindu temple in the world. They were attacked. They were put up against the wall with guns to their heads. So, it isn't just a Catholic or Christian thing. American Jews were targeted in colleges and universities and a lot of folks in the FBI in the past FBI, not this one, didn't give a damn. We can't go back to targeting religion. We can't go back to silencing free speech. The Biden administration did that. So, I got questions for you, hopefully, thoughtful questions that you can answer for us in a thoughtful way. How is this FBI now under your leadership? How are restoring trust for Catholics, for Hindus, for Jews, for parents, for all the other, for just American people that were targeted by FISA because they had a different viewpoint? How are we restoring that trust in the FBI?

Kash Patel (03:26:37):

In multiple ways, sir. One and maybe most importantly is through transparency and providing the American public with the material so they can see, read it themselves as to what the abuses were in the past, whether it relates to the Catholic memo or the Hindu incident you talked about at the largest temple in North America. Any institution of faith and any member of faith will not be investigated by this FBI because they are men and women of faith ever.

Speaker 17 (03:27:01):

And nor should they, nor should they. I don't mean to interrupt you, but my God, of all the amendments to the freedom of speech, freedom to believe in what you want to believe in. I know you're standing up for that. Continue, I'm sorry.

Kash Patel (03:27:12):

No, that's it. Sorry.

Speaker 17 (03:27:14):

Okay. The Richmond member was driven by a reliance on sources, the Southern Poverty Law Center. The words sound nice, but the organization's not so nice and we've seen the Anti-Defamation League distort data that counts, as well, as violence. Have you been able to identify and eliminate these kinds of partisan sources? We welcome all sources, but we want objectivity and neutrality and decency in the way we report all this. Have you been able to uncover any information there? How do we make sure our sources are good in the future?

Kash Patel (03:27:48):

We have reviewed the source processes that infiltrate any institutions of faith, and they will no longer be going into institutions of faith. They will be directed towards criminal activity and protecting the homeland, the two most important missions the FBI has, and that's what we're going to continue to do.

Speaker 17 (03:28:05):

Good. And I'll say this, there was a lot of bull today, A lot of, you know what, and I'm not going to say it because I respect the institutions so much going on around here. Continue to do the work of the people. You are here for that reason, the administration is here for that reason. It was weaponized and politicized the FBI in the past. I hope that God, we never, ever see that again, one of the darkest parts of American history. Thank you, Mr. Patel. I yield back.

Speaker 20 (03:28:32):

Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent.

Mr. Chairman (03:28:34):

Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from New York is recognized for UC.

Speaker 20 (03:28:36):

I would like to introduce a CNN article that explains how an alleged top leader of the MS-13 gang was dismissed. His case was dismissed in Brooklyn so that he could be deported back to El Salvador even though he was charged with murder.

Mr. Chairman (03:28:53):

No objection.

Speaker 16 (03:28:54):

Mr. Chairman, I have some unanimous consent to question.

Mr. Chairman (03:28:57):

Gentlelady from Washington is recognized.

Speaker 16 (03:28:57):

I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article titled Justice Department told Trump in May that his name is among many in the Epstein files.

Mr. Chairman (03:29:06):

No objection.

Speaker 16 (03:29:07):

I have another one that is a July 2025 article by the New York Times entitled How a Frantic Scouring of the Epstein Files Consumed the Justice Department, stating that DOJ and FBI employees reviewing the Epstein files were instructed to flag any mentions of Trump and other celebrities.

Mr. Chairman (03:29:25):

No objection.

Speaker 16 (03:29:26):

And I have another unanimous consent request to enter into the record. An August 2025 article by the Guardian entitled Ghislaine Maxwell Hinted at Epstein's Ties to Trump Officials. Why wasn't she pressed for names? Stating that Maxwell told Deputy US Attorney Todd Blanche that some of the cast of characters around Epstein are in Trump's cabinet.

Mr. Chairman (03:29:49):

Without objection. Chair now recognizes the Gentlelady from Pennsylvania.

Speaker 18 (03:29:53):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Patel, for coming before us to testify today. I

Speaker 21 (03:30:00):

I am concerned by your repeated claims that you're not able to disclose anything further about the Epstein investigation files and that there's no evidence of a broader conspiracy or other people who should be charged, because the American people aren't buying that you've been transparent or that there's nothing further to be seen.

(03:30:21)
In your exchange with my colleague Mr. Roy, you reiterated something that I heard you say yesterday in your Senate testimony and that is under your direction, the FBI will always follow the money, is that right?

Kash Patel (03:30:33):

The money, did you say? Yes. Yes.

Speaker 21 (03:30:34):

Yes, you said you'll follow the money. That's great. And just now, you said you welcome the opportunity to investigate new evidence. So there has been significant recent reporting just in the last couple of weeks that after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested, four major banks flagged more than $1.5 billion in suspicious transactions connected to him that suggested a massive conspiracy related to his child sex trafficking activities. Director Patel has the FBI reviewed the 1.5 billion in suspicious bank transactions flagged to the government relating to Epstein and his co-conspirators?

Kash Patel (03:31:15):

I know the FBI has reviewed numerous SARs. I don't know the totality of that number.

Speaker 21 (03:31:18):

Okay. Can you provide us with that number?

Kash Patel (03:31:20):

I'll get back to you.

Speaker 21 (03:31:21):

Okay. And have you initiated any new investigation of those bank transactions since, say, September 8th when the new reporting came out?

Kash Patel (03:31:30):

I'll check with the Treasury Department because they're the lead on that.

Speaker 21 (03:31:33):

Okay. So Director Patel, how many individuals or entities has the FBI interviewed, subpoenaed, or compelled to testify? Can you give us those numbers with respect to these bank transactions?

Kash Patel (03:31:49):

Not off the top of my head. I'll have to work with Treasury.

Speaker 21 (03:31:51):

Okay. We're concerned, you see, because you say you're going after child predators, but-

Kash Patel (03:31:58):

We are.

Speaker 21 (03:31:58):

… obviously, this is how you follow the money is if you follow the bank transactions that apparently enabled the child sex trafficking. Would you agree?

Kash Patel (03:32:10):

It's one of the valuable investigative tools is to follow the money.

Speaker 21 (03:32:13):

Okay. Have Jeffrey Epstein's victims have asked us to ask you whether or not you've investigated Epstein's lawyers, the lawyers who facilitated those payments? Have you subpoenaed or questioned any of those lawyers?

Kash Patel (03:32:30):

So in 2018 and '19, what I recollect is many if not every one of those lawyers was part of the investigation.

Speaker 21 (03:32:37):

But you weren't there at that time, right?

Kash Patel (03:32:38):

I wasn't there.

Speaker 21 (03:32:39):

Okay, so can you get us the names and the numbers of who was investigated then with respect to those lawyers?

Kash Patel (03:32:45):

As long as I'm allowed to release it, absolutely.

Speaker 21 (03:32:47):

Okay. Well, if we provide you with subpoenas, I assume you can release it, is that right?

Kash Patel (03:32:50):

We have a current subpoena and we're working with Congress to provide it.

Speaker 21 (03:32:54):

Okay. You've said that the Acosta investigation had an original sin. What do you mean by that?

Kash Patel (03:33:05):

Basically, if you're looking at an actual pedophile ring, what you should not do is limit the timeframe in which you're legally able to collect information. So search warrants that Mr. Acosta utilized in 2006 and '07, leading to the 2008 plea agreement, had a very specific narrow window of years, I think three or four years. And so information pursuant to legal process wasn't collected for 10 years or 15 years or 20 years.

(03:33:33)
Also, subpoenas were not sent out to hundreds of witnesses at the time, hundreds of victims at the time, none of that was done. None of these people were put in grand juries. And so the totality of information from the jump instead of being this big, was like this. And that, in my opinion, is not how you run an investigation if you're trying to break a sex trafficking ring.

Speaker 21 (03:33:54):

So you're now in charge of the FBI, why haven't you done that investigation?

Kash Patel (03:33:58):

Great question, and here's the answer, simply because I am not able to go back 20 years and collect information that the courts had decided was already subject to search warrants. They have said, this was in the investigation. There's a non-prosecution agreement out of that plea, and when the case was reopened, and this is where it comes into play, when the case was reopened in 2018 and 2019, the search warrants again were limited to the conduct of Jeffrey Epstein. Now, whether that's right or wrong, that's a different discussion, but I'm telling you that's the information we reviewed.

Speaker 21 (03:34:32):

Well, I think that is a different discussion and I think the discussion we'd like to have today is why you aren't following the money with respect to the broader conspiracy that it has been reported in the New York Times and elsewhere, and that if you really want to attack the issue, if you wanted to attack the issue, if you wanted to get to the bottom of it, if you wanted to disclose what really was involved in the Epstein files, the Epstein cover-up, that you would be taking very different actions that you are today. I do want to seek unanimous consent to enter into the record the New York Times, September 8th, 2025 article how JPMorgan Enabled the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein.

Jim Jordan (03:35:13):

Objection

Speaker 21 (03:35:14):

And also an article dated July 17th, 2025 in the Epstein case, Follow the Money.

Jim Jordan (03:35:22):

Objection.

Speaker 21 (03:35:22):

Okay, thank you.

Jim Jordan (03:35:24):

Gentlelady yields back.

Speaker 23 (03:35:24):

Mr. Chairman.

Jim Jordan (03:35:25):

Gentleman from Maryland is recognized.

Speaker 23 (03:35:27):

Thank you much. Pursuant to Clause 2K6 of Rule 11, I move the committee subpoena the CEOs of four banks, JPMorgan, that's Jamie Dimon; Bank of New York Mellon, Robin Vince; Bank of America, Brian Moynihan; and Deutsche Bank, Christian Sewing, in order to get the suspicious transaction reports. These four banks have flagged to the government $1.5 billion in suspicious transactions related to the sex trafficking crimes and conspiracy to Epstein, Maxwell and all of their collaborators. And as you know, Mr. Chairman, we got the SARs reports for Hunter Biden totaling around $20 million. And so these $1.5 billion in SARs reports we should get, especially since the director doesn't seem to be forthcoming and I requested that we do this immediately.

Jim Jordan (03:36:15):

I think the director has been very forthcoming. We will hold any motion to subpoena in abeyance until the conclusion of the hearing. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas.

Speaker 24 (03:36:22):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Director Patel for being here. It is quite clear, it's quite clear that certain members of this committee, they want their 15 seconds on TV stamping and coming. Maybe it's for fundraising, maybe they're struggling in their district, they need a little bump, but they turn a committee into a clown show and that's what we're seeing.

(03:36:43)
You're being unjustly attacked today. I watched the Senate hearings yesterday. You were attacked there. We know there's an agenda, there's always an agenda. It's the same characters with the same personalities, the same objective, and that is destroy the MAGA movement. You're being attacked director is because you're effective. You highlighted what you've been doing in DC with the President and reducing violent crime. You're very effective.

(03:37:14)
Another individual that was very effective with meaningful debate and dialogue was Charlie Kirk and they killed him for it. Charlie Kirk was a man of faith, first and foremost. He loved his Lord Jesus. He loved his family. Beautiful wife, beautiful children. Just a remarkable honorable man that was silenced with this assassin's bullet. I would say if Charlie Kirk lived in the biblical times, he'd have been the 13th disciple. He'd have been the 13th disciple.

(03:37:58)
We have a new committee, if you're not aware, a new select committee regarding January 6th. I'm honored to be on that committee. I'm looking forward to working with other members to expose truth, questioning federal agencies that were involved on January 6th, like the FBI, who played a role, but we don't really know, Director, to what extent. We don't know.

(03:38:26)
The January 6th sham committee was not formed by Nancy Pelosi to seek truth. It was nothing about getting to the truth about January 6th. Their sole mission was to damage Donald J. Trump and his political career, and everybody knows it. That's what the purpose was. You know what's nice? So I kind of get to ask the question though, "How did that work out for you?" Donald J. Trump is back in the White House and America loves him. I spent 30 years in law enforcement, all retired sheriff from large county of the great state of Texas. I've seen, Director, I've seen more enthusiasm and support for law enforcement today because of what you and Donald Trump have done over the last eight months to protect the American people. The American people couldn't count on their government to protect them. Crime is rampant and now we have a president and an administration that puts the American people and their safety first.

(03:39:34)
It's interesting. A few minutes ago, a classmate reached out to me and sent me a … I told him, I said, "Yes. We got Director Patel in front of our committee today." And Andy wanted me, Andy Cain wanted me to tell you. He said, "Tell him we love him. Tell him we love him and all the brave warriors exposing the deep state." Kash, you're a great American, sir. You're a great American. Your work as the director of the FBI is commendable. It's commendable, and I want to thank you, sir. Thank you for your service. Keep up the good fight, brother. Don't let him tear you down. Keep up that good fight. You have it in you. With that, sir, I yield back.

Jim Jordan (03:40:16):

The gentlemen yield. Gentleman, yield to me. Director Patel, there were 26 … The gentleman mentioned the select committee. There were 26 confidential human sources at the Capitol on January 6th, 2021. Four entered the Capitol and thereby broke the law. Do you know if those individuals were being paid by the Wray, FBI?

Kash Patel (03:40:42):

So we've provided 600 pages of documents through this committee alone regarding January 6th. That's 600 pages more than any of my predecessors. Generally speaking, confidential human sources are always paid by the FBI. That's how it works. I can't speak to the specifics on each one and how much they make.

Jim Jordan (03:40:59):

And we appreciate it. We've reviewed some of that material and you've given us a lot of material that we didn't get from Director Wray. That specific question I think is important to the American people. Were people who were confidential human sources of the FBI who broke the law, one was recommended for prosecution. My understanding is by the information we've received from you, were they actually paid by the very taxpayers who may have got charged with the same offense? I think that's important for us to understand.

Kash Patel (03:41:27):

I'll get back to you on that.

Jim Jordan (03:41:28):

Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California.

Speaker 25 (03:41:32):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome Director Patel. I'm going to focus a little bit on domestic terrorism. We have a graph here, data up to 2021, but as you can tell, domestic terrorism is on the rise. Nation, our citizens under threat. We saw the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Two assassination attempts on the President, school shooting Minnesota last month. And closer to home, just a couple of days ago, Huntington Beach, peaceful vigil for Charlie Clark, infiltrated by Neo-Nazis who was essentially made the local individuals attending that event fear for their safety.

(03:42:17)
All of us know that a lot of these domestic attacks are by lone wolves, but yet they do leave clues, social media or elsewhere. Director Patel, you're it. You're the thin blue line, the FBI. Your job to protect our citizens back home from those that would harm us. You have to find the needle in the haystack. Takes a lot of work, a lot of resources. Talking to my local sheriff this morning who said they're concerned. Federal cuts to local grants that helped them do the job. Then, of course, let's not forget about other threats there are coming before us like high-tech fraud. Local senior recently was talking to me about a text she had gotten, a demand by the IRS to send a payment immediately, or the IRS agents who were on their way to arrest this individual. Pretty gutsy stuff by folks probably from Europe, North Korea, Russia, China, people going after those precious savings our senior citizens rely on.

(03:43:36)
Yet, the president is proposing a budget cut of $500 million or more to your organization, the FBI. You've said that, that will essentially equate to about 1,300 less jobs at the FBI. So I'm going to ask you essentially, what is it that we can do to help you do your job? Little concerned. Friday Night Lights, one of the events I love to do on Friday nights. Go to the local high school football game, sit there at the stadium and you always say, "What if? What if?" You're the thin blue line. Can you do your job cutting $500 million from your budget?

Kash Patel (03:44:23):

Thank you, sir. I think we are doing our job, and the distinction is with the budget that we have, we are flexing more resources to the field. California is receiving the largest FBI plus up of any state in the union due to that plus up. They're not getting a reduction. No state is getting a reduction. Every state is getting a plus up. And so I'm utilizing the money that we have to first plus it up, and the empty vacancies that we have, those haven't been filled in years. Not under my leadership.