Court Officer (10:48):
Now open for business in this place. The honorable Chris Pelosi presiding. Morning, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (10:52):
Morning everybody. Have a seat. Thank you. Can the parties identify themselves for the record?
Chris Watson (10:57):
Chris Watson for the state.
David Clifton (10:59):
Morning Your Honor. David Clifton for the state.
Jon Raad (11:00):
Morning, Your Honor. Jon Raad for Cooper Ouellette?
Martin Minnella (11:03):
Martin Minnella for [inaudible 00:11:06].
Judge Chris Pelosi (11:06):
[inaudible 00:11:07]. All right, have a seat. Thank you for coming in at 9:45.
David Clifton (11:10):
May I be excused just to get [inaudible 00:11:11]?
Judge Chris Pelosi (11:12):
Dr. Gill? Oh, Dr. Vincent?
David Clifton (11:14):
Yes.
Judge Chris Pelosi (11:15):
Sure. Do you want him on the stand right now?
David Clifton (11:18):
What does counsel prefer?
Jon Raad (11:20):
Yes, please.
Martin Minnella (11:22):
Your Honor, just for the record, we marked a lot of these exhibits [inaudible 00:11:28]. We have no objection to them going into evidence.
Judge Chris Pelosi (11:34):
That's true.
David Clifton (11:35):
I think he's referring to other witnesses, not Dr. Vincent.
Judge Chris Pelosi (11:38):
Is there anything being objected to that you're trying to get into?
Martin Minnella (11:41):
No, Your Honor. We've gone over everything.
Judge Chris Pelosi (13:06):
All right. Did you get the final instructions, the draft?
David Clifton (13:10):
I did receive the draft, the original draft on Friday.
Judge Chris Pelosi (13:13):
All right. We're going to discuss charging conference today. Thank you, Attorney [inaudible 00:13:20] for doing that.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You're welcome.
Judge Chris Pelosi (13:40):
Welcome back, Dr. Vincent. Thank you for coming back.
Dr. Vincent (13:40):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (13:42):
I just want to remind you, you're still under oath, okay?
Dr. Vincent (13:44):
Yes.
Judge Chris Pelosi (13:45):
All right. Are we ready for the jury?
David Clifton (13:46):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (15:36):
[inaudible 00:14:00]. I got it. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for coming in early. Parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
Martin Minnella (15:40):
Yes.
David Clifton (15:40):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (15:41):
All right. Have a seat. Thank you again. Make yourself comfortable. All right. If you recall on Friday, the state had concluded their direct examination of Dr. Vincent. He's still under oath and now cross-examination is going to begin. Attorney Raad.
Jon Raad (16:09):
Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning.
Dr. Vincent (16:09):
Good morning.
Jon Raad (16:10):
Do you recall on Friday you told the jury that impacts from a fall can cause displaced rib fractures? Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (16:18):
Yes, I do.
Jon Raad (16:18):
Okay. And that a fall in a road could cause the displaced rib fractures you showed the jury. Do you remember doing that?
Dr. Vincent (16:26):
Yes.
Jon Raad (16:27):
All right. And about the lung, your words were that you would not expect a fall to cause the shearing to that level, correct?
Dr. Vincent (16:35):
Sorry, did you say the lung?
Jon Raad (16:36):
With regard to the lung, yes. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (16:39):
Yes, I do.
Jon Raad (16:41):
Okay. And you also told the jury that a tire can cause pattern abrasion. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (16:46):
Yes.
Jon Raad (16:48):
You told the jury you cannot say to a reasonable degree of medical certainty what caused the abrasions on Sophie's neck. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (17:00):
I recall answering a similar question. I don't recall using those words.
Jon Raad (17:03):
If I were to show you a copy of your transcript, would that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (17:07):
Of course.
Jon Raad (17:08):
Sure. May I approach, Your Honor?
Judge Chris Pelosi (17:14):
Yes. Are you talking about the neck right now?
Jon Raad (17:17):
Yes.
Judge Chris Pelosi (17:17):
Okay. You can approach. [inaudible 00:17:37].
Dr. Vincent (17:49):
Yes.
Jon Raad (17:49):
Did that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (17:51):
Yes, it did. Thank you.
Jon Raad (17:59):
So Doctor, you told the jury on Friday that you cannot, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, tell them what caused the abrasion on Sophie's neck. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (18:10):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:12):
And you told the jury that you cannot say how a person perceives an injury and that everybody experiences pain differently. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (18:20):
Yes, I do.
Jon Raad (18:21):
And you told the jury that the speed of the truck does not affect your opinion. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (18:26):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:28):
And isn't it true that you were present for the autopsy on May 22nd, 2023?
Dr. Vincent (18:33):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:34):
And the left rib fractures you showed the jury were found and photographed that day, correct?
Dr. Vincent (18:39):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:40):
All right. The lacerations on the left lung you showed the jury were found and photographed that day, correct?
Dr. Vincent (18:44):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:45):
All right. The abrasions on her back you showed the jury were found and photographed that day, correct?
Dr. Vincent (18:51):
Yes.
Jon Raad (18:53):
Every photograph you showed the jury was taken during the autopsy on May 22nd, 2023, correct?
Dr. Vincent (19:01):
Yes.
Jon Raad (19:01):
All right. And the cause of death, blunt impact injuries of the torso was certified on May 24th, 2023, correct?
Dr. Vincent (19:09):
I believe so. I'd have to see the death certificate to be sure, but I do think that's the case, yes.
Jon Raad (19:14):
And the final toxicology report was issued on June 20th, 2023. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (19:20):
I don't recall the specific date it was issued, but yes, it's generally a few weeks after.
Jon Raad (19:24):
Okay. And after May 22nd, 2023, isn't it true that no one re-examined Sophie's body?
Dr. Vincent (19:32):
Nobody from our office.
Jon Raad (19:33):
Do you have any knowledge of anybody re-examining her body?
Dr. Vincent (19:36):
I do not have any knowledge of another examination.
Jon Raad (19:39):
Okay. Isn't it true that the injuries described in the report you signed on May 7th, 2024 are the same injuries documented on May 22nd, 2023?
David Clifton (19:49):
Objection to the timeframe. Assumes facts not in evidence.
Judge Chris Pelosi (19:53):
What is the May 7th? I don't know where May 7th is coming from. What day did you do the autopsy on?
Dr. Vincent (19:58):
It was in [inaudible 00:20:03]. Sorry, I'd have to look at the report to refresh my memory on the date.
Judge Chris Pelosi (20:05):
Sure.
Dr. Vincent (20:05):
I apologize.
Jon Raad (20:09):
Exhibit 41.
Dr. Vincent (20:21):
Thank you. Okay.
Jon Raad (20:21):
Does that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (20:26):
Yes.
Jon Raad (20:32):
So the injuries described in the report you signed on May 7th, 2024 are the same injuries documented on May 22nd, 2023, correct?
David Clifton (20:39):
Yes.
Jon Raad (20:39):
All right.
Judge Chris Pelosi (20:41):
I don't... Nothing's in front of the court or in evidence of a May 7th report.
Jon Raad (20:46):
I'll move on, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (20:50):
Okay.
Jon Raad (20:50):
Before testifying...
Judge Chris Pelosi (20:50):
That's sustained, your objection.
David Clifton (20:51):
Thank you, your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (20:51):
All right.
Jon Raad (20:52):
Before testifying, you reviewed the information in your office's computer system, including notes, correct?
Dr. Vincent (20:57):
Yes.
Jon Raad (20:58):
All right. That includes your office's telephone notice of death?
Dr. Vincent (21:01):
Yes, it does.
Jon Raad (21:04):
And that's where your office logs calls and contacts about a case with the date and the initials of the person who made the entry, correct?
Dr. Vincent (21:10):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (21:12):
The death was reported to your office at 1:31 AM on May 21st, 2023, correct?
Dr. Vincent (21:18):
I don't recall the exact time, but that is the date, yes.
Jon Raad (21:21):
If I were to show you a copy of your telephone notice of death, would that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (21:25):
Yes, it would.
Jon Raad (21:25):
Did that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (21:39):
Yes.
Jon Raad (21:47):
So the death was reported to your office at 1:31 AM on May 21st, 2023, correct?
Dr. Vincent (21:54):
Correct.
Jon Raad (21:54):
All right. And the first account your office recorded was that Sophie fell out of a moving truck, isn't that true?
Dr. Vincent (22:02):
I don't recall the exact wording at the beginning of that report. My apologies.
Jon Raad (22:05):
If I were to show you a copy of this report, would that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (22:09):
Yes.
Jon Raad (22:19):
Does that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (22:21):
Yes.
Jon Raad (22:26):
So the first account your office recorded was that Sophie fell out of a moving truck. Isn't that true?
Dr. Vincent (22:33):
That's what was first reported, yes.
Jon Raad (22:35):
And isn't it true that at three o'clock that morning, the state police sergeant relayed that Sophie said she was going to be sick and asked the driver to pull over and that the truck was still moving when she opened the door?
David Clifton (22:46):
Objection, hearsay.
Martin Minnella (22:48):
Your Honor, may I be heard?
Judge Chris Pelosi (22:48):
You may.
Martin Minnella (22:51):
This is the effect on the listener for notice only, is it true.
Judge Chris Pelosi (22:55):
All right. Is it relevant to the effect on the listener that we discussed?
David Clifton (22:59):
Yes, with the limiting instruction, I would agree with that ruling.
Judge Chris Pelosi (23:03):
You would agree?
David Clifton (23:04):
Yes.
Judge Chris Pelosi (23:04):
Okay. So you're going to hear testimony, so that's overruled and sustained in part. The answer of what Sophie said, it's not offered for the truth of what she said, it's offered for the effect it had on the hearer, meaning Dr. Vincent, and what effect it had relevant to his autopsy. Okay? You could proceed, rephrase that question or re-ask it.
Jon Raad (23:32):
Thank you, Your Honor. Doctor, isn't it true that at three o'clock that morning, the state police sergeant relayed that Sophie said she was going to be sick and asked the driver to pull over and that the truck was still moving when she opened the door?
Dr. Vincent (23:45):
That is information that was reported to us. I don't recall specifically what time that was entered.
Jon Raad (23:50):
I'm not asking if it was information that was reported to you. I'm asking, is it true that you received that information?
Dr. Vincent (23:57):
Yes.
Jon Raad (23:58):
Your office's investigator completed her report of the investigation on May 24th, 2023, is that correct?
Dr. Vincent (24:06):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:08):
That's also a report from your office that you rely upon. Do you agree with that?
Dr. Vincent (24:11):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:13):
And that was made two days after the autopsy at which every injury you described today had been found, correct?
Dr. Vincent (24:19):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:19):
Do you recall that she also recorded Sophie fell out of a truck while it was moving?
Dr. Vincent (24:26):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:27):
And she recorded the manner of death as pending, correct?
Dr. Vincent (24:32):
That's in her report, but she doesn't determine manner of death.
Jon Raad (24:36):
Okay, but it was still pending at that time?
Dr. Vincent (24:38):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:40):
Doctor, a case is placed in pending status because the autopsy alone does not answer the question of manner. Would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (24:46):
Yes.
Jon Raad (24:47):
And on June 23rd, 2023, your office hosted a three-hour meeting with Detective Slaby and four other state police investigators. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (24:56):
Yes, there was a meeting at our office.
Jon Raad (24:58):
And it was a three-hour meeting, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:01):
I don't recall the exact length, but that sounds reasonable.
Jon Raad (25:04):
I'm going to show you a copy of your report. Would that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (25:07):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:16):
Did that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (25:17):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:18):
So, Doctor, that meeting was three hours, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:21):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:27):
You and Dr. Wayrausch reviewed the case with them, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:30):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:31):
I'm pronouncing that correctly?
Dr. Vincent (25:32):
It's Wyroch.
Jon Raad (25:32):
Wyroch?
Dr. Vincent (25:32):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:35):
And you had the full autopsy, the rib fractures, the lung, the abrasions on her back at that time, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:40):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (25:42):
And you had the toxicology, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:45):
Possibly. I think we did at that time, yes.
Jon Raad (25:49):
And after that review, the case still remained pending, correct?
Dr. Vincent (25:52):
Yes.
Jon Raad (25:58):
Doctor, the words run over do not appear anywhere in the autopsy report, correct?
Dr. Vincent (26:02):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (26:03):
The word crush does not appear anywhere in this autopsy report, correct?
Dr. Vincent (26:07):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (26:08):
And the word tire does not appear in here either, does it?
Dr. Vincent (26:11):
It does not, no.
Jon Raad (26:14):
In fact, the first time you expressed the opinion that Sophie was run over was in this very courtroom, correct?
Dr. Vincent (26:19):
That is not correct.
Jon Raad (26:20):
It's not correct. When did you first express that she was run over?
Dr. Vincent (26:24):
I had that opinion multiple times throughout the investigation in various meetings with various people.
Jon Raad (26:30):
Is it documented in your report?
Dr. Vincent (26:32):
No.
Jon Raad (26:32):
Did you ever amend your report to add that information?
Dr. Vincent (26:36):
No.
Jon Raad (26:39):
Doctor, are you aware the state police collision analysis and reconstruction squad was called to the scene?
Dr. Vincent (26:45):
Yes.
Jon Raad (26:45):
And are you aware that Detective Spencer Bronson was assigned to reconstruct what happened and to determine causation and contributing factors?
Dr. Vincent (26:53):
I don't recall specifically which detective, but yes, I recall that there was a detective whose purpose was to investigate that.
Jon Raad (26:59):
Okay. Are you aware that the scene was forensically mapped and the truck was inspected and scanned with a 3D laser scanner?
Dr. Vincent (27:05):
I knew about the map. I didn't know about the scanning of the truck.
Jon Raad (27:09):
The inspection found that the truck didn't sustain any contact damage. Are you aware of that?
Dr. Vincent (27:14):
I'm aware of the findings of their investigation, yes.
Jon Raad (27:17):
Are you aware that Detective Bronson signed his report under sworn attestation and Sergeant Mark DeCoco approved it on December 22nd, 2023?
Dr. Vincent (27:27):
I am unaware of the dates or the signing process, but I know the report was completed.
Jon Raad (27:33):
Doctor, you never went to the scene, correct?
Dr. Vincent (27:36):
I did go to the scene after the fact, but not at the time it was being investigated.
Jon Raad (27:40):
How long after the fact would you say?
Dr. Vincent (27:44):
I don't know. I mean, it was probably months or weeks afterwards.
Jon Raad (27:47):
Was there snow on the ground?
Dr. Vincent (27:48):
I don't recall.
Jon Raad (27:49):
Was it raining?
Dr. Vincent (27:51):
It was not raining when I was there, no.
Jon Raad (27:52):
Was it dark?
Dr. Vincent (27:53):
No.
Jon Raad (27:55):
Doctor, on February 21st, 2024, five state police detectives came to your office about this case. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (28:02):
Yes. There was a meeting, yes.
Jon Raad (28:04):
Detective Bronson, who performed the reconstruction, he was one of them, correct?
Dr. Vincent (28:07):
Yes.
Jon Raad (28:09):
Sergeant DeCoco, who approved that, was another one of them, with Detective Slaby. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (28:14):
Yes.
Jon Raad (28:15):
And you made an entry in your office's record summarizing what was reported, correct?
Dr. Vincent (28:20):
I did.
Jon Raad (28:22):
And isn't it true you wrote that Sergeant DeCoco reported that the reconstruction supports Sophie exiting the moving truck at 13 to 15 miles per hour?
Dr. Vincent (28:31):
Yes, I do believe I noted that.
Jon Raad (28:33):
And isn't it true that you wrote that he reported that the evidence does not support being run over?
David Clifton (28:38):
Objection, just ask for that same limitation, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (28:43):
I'll allow it.
Jon Raad (28:45):
Isn't it true you wrote that he reported that the evidence does not support her being run over? Isn't that true?
Dr. Vincent (28:51):
Yes.
Jon Raad (28:54):
And isn't it true that you were told that hair recovered from the truck steel pipe was consistent with animal hair?
Dr. Vincent (28:59):
Yes.
Jon Raad (29:00):
And isn't it true that you were told that the human hair found on the interior passenger side was never DNA tested?
Dr. Vincent (29:06):
Yes.
Jon Raad (29:08):
And you didn't write that entry that you disagreed, correct?
Dr. Vincent (29:12):
Sorry?
Jon Raad (29:13):
I'll rephrase it. You never wrote an entry or a note that you disagreed with those findings, correct?
Dr. Vincent (29:19):
No, I did not.
Jon Raad (29:21):
All right. And you made no later entry in your office's log stating that she was run over, did you?
Dr. Vincent (29:25):
No.
Jon Raad (29:28):
Doctor, isn't it true that the reconstruction concluded that Sophie separated from the right front seat about three feet, five inches above the ground?
David Clifton (29:35):
Objection, beyond the witness's area of expertise.
Jon Raad (29:38):
Your Honor, can I be heard.
Judge Chris Pelosi (29:42):
Give me one second. What's your objection?
David Clifton (29:49):
It's beyond the witness's area of expertise. He's talking about the details of the reconstruction.
Judge Chris Pelosi (29:53):
He didn't do the reconstruction.
Jon Raad (29:54):
Yes. I'm not inquiring the depth of the reconstruction, I'm asking if he reviewed it and isn't it true, which he did say he reviewed it. He met with these [inaudible 00:30:03].
Judge Chris Pelosi (30:02):
All right. Well, you could go slow and ask one question at a time. You could start with reviewing Bronson's report.
Jon Raad (30:09):
Doctor, did you review Detective Bronson's report?
Dr. Vincent (30:12):
I don't believe I ever received a copy of his report.
Jon Raad (30:15):
He came to your office, correct?
Dr. Vincent (30:16):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (30:17):
How many times did you say he came to your office?
Dr. Vincent (30:19):
I don't recall off the top of my head. I would say at least two, maybe more than that.
Jon Raad (30:24):
Okay. Well, you just told them that you spoke with him for about three hours at one point, correct?
Dr. Vincent (30:28):
He was in that three hour meeting. I mean, I didn't speak with him for the whole three hours.
Jon Raad (30:31):
I mean, what did you guys talk about?
Dr. Vincent (30:33):
We talked about his scene investigation findings.
Jon Raad (30:36):
His reconstruction, correct?
Dr. Vincent (30:38):
Yes.
Jon Raad (30:39):
All right. But you didn't review any reports that he generated regarding that reconstruction. Is that your testimony?
Dr. Vincent (30:45):
I don't recall ever receiving a report from them.
Jon Raad (30:48):
Okay. But once again, just to be thorough, you did speak with him about his reconstruction?
Dr. Vincent (30:52):
Yes.
Jon Raad (30:53):
All right. So isn't it true, Doctor, that the reconstruction concluded and Sophie separated from the right front seat about three feet, five inches above the ground?
David Clifton (31:01):
Objection. May I be heard outside the presence?
Judge Chris Pelosi (31:06):
Sure. Could I excuse you for a moment, ladies and gentlemen?
Jon Raad (36:19):
Back in session. Good morning, Your Honor.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (36:21):
Morning. Everybody have a seat. All right. We met in chambers relative to the form of the question. I'm going to sustain the objection. And Attorney Raad, you indicated that you're just rephrasing, correct?
Jon Raad (36:32):
Correct, Your Honor.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (36:33):
All right. You ready for the jury?
Jon Raad (36:34):
Yes.
David Clifton (36:34):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (36:34):
Thanks.
Court Attendees (36:34):
[inaudible 00:36:44].
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (38:06):
All right. Parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
Jon Raad (38:08):
Yes, Your Honor.
David Clifton (38:08):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (38:17):
All right. Have a seat, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, that last question was objected to and it was sustained. Attorney Raad's going to rephrase it, okay? Go ahead, sir.
Jon Raad (38:28):
Thanks, Your Honor. All right, Doctor, you were told the reconstruction concluded that Sophie separated from the right front seat about three feet, five inches. Is that true?
Dr. Vincent (38:41):
Yes.
Jon Raad (38:41):
And that she impacted the roadway and slid or tumbled about five... I'm sorry, about 12 feet before coming to her rest. Is that true?
Dr. Vincent (38:49):
That that's what was in the report? Yes.
Jon Raad (38:52):
And are you aware it calculated the truck's speed at between 13 and 15.87 miles per hour? Are you aware of that?
Dr. Vincent (38:59):
That sounds about right, yes.
Jon Raad (39:01):
The hypotheticals the state gave you on Friday assumed 20 miles per hour. Isn't that true?
Dr. Vincent (39:06):
I believe so, yes.
Jon Raad (39:08):
And you told the jury that the speed does not matter to your opinion. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (39:14):
Yes.
Jon Raad (39:15):
Isn't it true that nowhere in its conclusions does the reconstruction find that Sophie was run over?
David Clifton (39:21):
Objection.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (39:22):
Sustained.
Jon Raad (39:22):
All right. Were you ever told that nowhere in its conclusions does the reconstruction find that Sophie was run over?
Dr. Vincent (39:37):
Yes.
Jon Raad (39:37):
But you told this jury that she was run over?
Dr. Vincent (39:39):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (39:42):
Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (39:42):
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jon Raad (39:44):
Doctor, you've agreed that the displaced rib fractures could be caused by a fall, correct?
Dr. Vincent (39:48):
Yes.
Jon Raad (39:49):
All right. So, the rib fractures by themselves don't tell you how she was run over, correct?
Dr. Vincent (39:54):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (39:55):
Or if she was run over, correct?
Dr. Vincent (39:57):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (39:58):
The finding you told this jury was that you wouldn't expect, from a fall... What you wouldn't expect from a fall is due to the extent of the tearing on the left lower lobe of the lung. Isn't that correct?
Dr. Vincent (40:09):
I'm sorry, I'm confused by the phrasing.
Jon Raad (40:11):
Sure. You told this jury that you wouldn't expect those injuries to be from a fall, correct?
Dr. Vincent (40:18):
I would not expect that constellation of injuries to be consistent with a fall.
Jon Raad (40:21):
Right. With regard to the left tearing of the lower lobe of the lung, correct?
Dr. Vincent (40:25):
Yes.
Jon Raad (40:27):
But you didn't cite any study for the size of laceration a fall can or cannot cause, did you?
Dr. Vincent (40:32):
I did not cite a study, no.
Jon Raad (40:33):
And you didn't tell the jury whether she was facing up or whether she was facing down, did you?
Dr. Vincent (40:39):
No, I don't know the answer to that.
Jon Raad (40:41):
All right. The hypothetical you accepted was that a tire went over her to some degree. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (40:46):
Yes.
Jon Raad (40:46):
All right. Before Sophie reached your office, hospital staff attempted to place a chest tube in her left chest. Isn't that correct?
Dr. Vincent (40:54):
I believe so, yes.
Jon Raad (40:55):
All right. A chest tube is inserted through the chest wall between the ribs into the space around the lung, isn't that correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:01):
Yes.
Jon Raad (41:01):
All right. Emergency physicians also performed a thoracotomy, correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:06):
Yes.
Jon Raad (41:07):
And that was on the left side, correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:09):
I believe so, yes.
Jon Raad (41:11):
All right. Correct me if I'm wrong, Doctor, but a thoracotomy is an incision between the ribs to open the chest, correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:18):
A thoracotomy is, yes.
Jon Raad (41:20):
And the ribs are spread apart to reach inside, right?
Dr. Vincent (41:25):
I think... I'm not an emergency physician, I have not performed that procedure. They can be, I don't know if they always are.
Jon Raad (41:31):
Okay. And the surgeon's hands and instruments are in contact with that lung, do you agree?
Dr. Vincent (41:37):
It's possible, yes.
Jon Raad (41:39):
And she also had defibrillator pads that she received due to chest compressions, correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:46):
Sorry, did you-
Jon Raad (41:46):
Let me rephrase. She also had defibrillator pads, correct?
Dr. Vincent (41:49):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (41:50):
Right. And she received chest compressions?
Dr. Vincent (41:52):
I believe so, yes.
Jon Raad (41:54):
Okay. Chest compressions press between the chest and the hands on a firm surface, correct? Do you agree with that?
Dr. Vincent (42:02):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:02):
Those are two opposing surfaces, correct?
Dr. Vincent (42:05):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:06):
All right. Repeatedly?
Dr. Vincent (42:08):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:10):
And when ribs are already fractured and displaced, the broken ends move under that pressure, do you agree?
Dr. Vincent (42:15):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:16):
All right. Your report does not separate lung injury that occurred before medical intervention from injury that may have occurred during it, does it?
Dr. Vincent (42:23):
No.
Jon Raad (42:25):
Right. You didn't discuss any of these procedures with the jury on Friday in giving your opinion about the lung, correct?
Dr. Vincent (42:31):
I was asked about what therapeutic procedures there were and we did discuss them, yes.
Jon Raad (42:35):
What they were, but not to this extent, correct?
Dr. Vincent (42:39):
I guess I didn't describe them on later. Yes, that's correct.
Jon Raad (42:44):
Okay. Your report describes the abrasions on the left face, the left neck, and the left collarbone as brush type abrasions, correct?
Dr. Vincent (42:50):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:52):
A brush type abrasion is caused by skin sliding across a rough surface. Do you agree?
Dr. Vincent (42:56):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:57):
All right. Like pavement?
Dr. Vincent (42:57):
Yes.
Jon Raad (42:59):
And on direct, you described the abrasion on her left cheek as patterned.
Dr. Vincent (43:03):
Yes?
Jon Raad (43:05):
Correct? And the abrasion on her neck is patterned, correct?
Dr. Vincent (43:08):
Yes.
Jon Raad (43:08):
You did not contend that a tire went over her face, did you?
Dr. Vincent (43:13):
I was not asked that.
Jon Raad (43:15):
I'm asking you now, do you contend that a tire went over her face?
Dr. Vincent (43:18):
No.
Jon Raad (43:19):
Or her neck?
Dr. Vincent (43:20):
No.
Jon Raad (43:22):
So, pattern means only that the abrasion has some visible texture, would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (43:28):
Yes, it is a fair assessment.
Jon Raad (43:29):
Asphalt has a texture.
Dr. Vincent (43:31):
It does.
Jon Raad (43:32):
An abrasion can be caused when skin slides across the surface, correct?
Dr. Vincent (43:35):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (43:36):
Right. And you didn't compare those abrasions to the tread of the truck's tires, did you?
Dr. Vincent (43:41):
I did, actually.
Jon Raad (43:44):
You did when?
Dr. Vincent (43:44):
We were provided photographs of the tires and I did compare them with the photographs from the autopsy.
Jon Raad (43:48):
Photographs. Did you compare to the tire sample-
Dr. Vincent (43:50):
No.
Jon Raad (43:50):
... that the state police took?
Dr. Vincent (43:53):
I was never provided with a sample, only photographs.
Jon Raad (43:55):
Okay. Did you ever see the tire itself in person?
Dr. Vincent (43:57):
I did not.
Jon Raad (43:59):
Do you know where it was, where it was being held?
Dr. Vincent (44:03):
I know that the truck was in custody, for lack of a better word, but I do not know where they keep it.
Jon Raad (44:10):
All right. So, instead of viewing a photograph, it would've been possible for you to go to where the truck was and see the tire for yourself, correct?
Dr. Vincent (44:17):
Yes, I believe that is possible.
Jon Raad (44:19):
No measurement, overlay, or scale comparison to any tire was made, correct?
Dr. Vincent (44:28):
No, we did attempt to put scales into the photographs and make comparisons, yes.
Jon Raad (44:33):
In the photographs?
Dr. Vincent (44:36):
I do recall seeing photographs of the tire with a scale.
Jon Raad (44:39):
But nothing in person, just on a piece of paper?
Dr. Vincent (44:42):
Just on a photograph, that's correct.
Jon Raad (44:45):
And you didn't identify a tire tread pattern anywhere on Sophie's skin, isn't that correct?
Dr. Vincent (44:49):
That is not correct.
Jon Raad (44:50):
It's not correct? Where is there a tire pattern on her skin?
Dr. Vincent (44:54):
Comparing the photographs of the skin, I do believe that there are tire patterns that match on the abrasions on her back, the right side, and both the upper left of her back.
Jon Raad (45:02):
Did you document that anywhere in your reports?
Dr. Vincent (45:04):
No.
Jon Raad (45:05):
Why not?
Dr. Vincent (45:06):
Because that's not purview of the report.
Jon Raad (45:09):
You just testified that Sergeant Dicocco told you that he didn't believe that she was run over by a tire, correct?
Dr. Vincent (45:17):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (45:18):
And you didn't amend your notes, did you?
Dr. Vincent (45:22):
Which notes?
Jon Raad (45:23):
The telephone death record. You didn't amend those, did you?
Dr. Vincent (45:27):
To put my opinion in? That's not the purpose for that.
Jon Raad (45:30):
Anywhere in any documentation you generated, did you write what you just testified to?
Dr. Vincent (45:35):
No, because that's not the purpose of the reports that we have.
Jon Raad (45:37):
Okay. So, something so important as that, which I would call as a conclusion, you don't feel it's necessary to document that anywhere when you have... Or let me stop you there, correct?
Dr. Vincent (45:49):
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Jon Raad (45:50):
Yeah. You didn't feel it was necessary to document that in any reports, did you?
Dr. Vincent (45:56):
Yes, I did feel it was necessary to document that.
Jon Raad (45:58):
But you didn't document it?
Dr. Vincent (45:59):
That's not the purpose of our reports.
Jon Raad (46:00):
You just said you feel it's necessary to document that. Why wouldn't you?
Dr. Vincent (46:04):
Because our reports are generated, we refer to them as being the news, not an editorial. Our autopsy reports are designed so that any competent forensic pathologist can pick up our report, read our report, and understand how we come to our conclusions. Putting things in, such as describing specific patterns of abrasions besides just saying "a pattern", is putting a comment or an opinion into that report, which is not the purpose of the reports in our office. The idea being that we will get questioned about these and when we provide our answers, that's when we're providing our opinions, such as I am doing in this setting.
Jon Raad (46:35):
All right, that's nice. But you have a three-hour meeting that's documented.
David Clifton (46:40):
Objection, argumentative.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (46:41):
Okay. That's sustained.
Jon Raad (46:44):
You have a three-hour meeting where you discuss these opinions of the major crime squad and the accident reconstruction team. Correct me if I'm wrong, one tells you, the sergeant, the lead in that squad, tells you he doesn't believe that she was run over, correct?
Dr. Vincent (46:59):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (47:00):
Okay. And as you sit here today, you're telling us that you identified a tire pattern on her neck, on her body?
Dr. Vincent (47:06):
Yes.
Jon Raad (47:06):
Okay. You never tested that tire?
Dr. Vincent (47:08):
No.
Jon Raad (47:08):
That tire was never tested for pattern recognition, correct?
Dr. Vincent (47:15):
We had photographs.
Jon Raad (47:18):
Can a photograph tell you DNA?
Dr. Vincent (47:21):
No.
Jon Raad (47:22):
Okay. So, as you sit here today, you can't tell us that tire was ever tested for DNA, can you?
Dr. Vincent (47:27):
No.
Jon Raad (47:28):
Okay. Or for pattern recognition?
Dr. Vincent (47:31):
That's out of my view, I don't know.
Jon Raad (47:33):
I know it's not your job, but you viewed the photograph and you came up with that finding, correct?
Dr. Vincent (47:37):
Yes.
Jon Raad (47:38):
Okay. But you can't tell us that you have any DNA to support that, can you?
Dr. Vincent (47:42):
No, I don't.
Jon Raad (47:44):
Doctor, every rib fracture you described was on the left side, correct?
Dr. Vincent (47:48):
Yes.
Jon Raad (47:50):
And there were no fractures on the right ribs, were there?
Dr. Vincent (47:52):
No, there were not.
Jon Raad (47:53):
The abrasions on the face were on the left, correct?
Dr. Vincent (47:55):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (47:56):
The jaw injury was on the left, correct?
Dr. Vincent (47:58):
There was a fracture on the left side of the jaw and there was another fracture just right at the midline of the jaw.
Jon Raad (48:04):
The neck, the collarbone, the armpit, and the forearm injuries were all on the left, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:09):
Yes.
Jon Raad (48:12):
No fracture to the pelvis, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:13):
No.
Jon Raad (48:14):
No fracture of the legs, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:16):
Correct, no.
Jon Raad (48:17):
No fracture of the arms, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:19):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:19):
No fracture of the hands, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:21):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:22):
No fracture of the breastbone, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:25):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:25):
No fracture of the front of the ribs, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:29):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:31):
No injury to the liver, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:32):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:33):
No injury to the kidneys, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:35):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:36):
No injury to the intestines, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:38):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:39):
No injury to the heart, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:41):
Correct.
Jon Raad (48:42):
No injury to the stomach, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:44):
Correct.
Jon Raad (48:45):
No injury to the pancreas, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:47):
Correct.
Jon Raad (48:48):
No injury to her spine, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:50):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (48:51):
No pattern injury from any part of the vehicle, correct?
Dr. Vincent (48:56):
That is incorrect.
Jon Raad (48:57):
Why?
Dr. Vincent (48:58):
As I said earlier, the abrasions on the skin, I felt, were consistent with a pattern from the tire.
Jon Raad (49:03):
Right. And that's because you looked at a photograph, correct?
Dr. Vincent (49:05):
Yes.
Jon Raad (49:05):
And on direct, you addressed the injuries to Sophie's neck and her necklace. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (49:12):
Yes.
Jon Raad (49:13):
Have you physically examined the necklace?
Dr. Vincent (49:15):
I have not seen the necklace, no.
Jon Raad (49:16):
Do you know the thickness or the strength of the necklace chain?
Dr. Vincent (49:21):
I do not.
Jon Raad (49:21):
Do you know who made the necklace?
Dr. Vincent (49:21):
No.
Jon Raad (49:22):
And you testified that the scratches and the abrasion injuries to her neck could be consistent with the neck being forcibly torn from her. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (49:33):
Yes.
Jon Raad (49:34):
Couldn't they also be consistent with marks caused by the necklace when Sophie fell from the truck?
Dr. Vincent (49:39):
Yes.
Jon Raad (49:40):
All right. Or when she was maneuvered into the truck?
Dr. Vincent (49:44):
Possibly, yes.
Jon Raad (49:47):
Couldn't the injuries to her neck also be completely independent of the necklace?
Dr. Vincent (49:52):
Sorry, could you just repeat that?
Jon Raad (49:54):
Isn't it possible for those injuries to be caused by something other than the necklace?
Dr. Vincent (49:59):
Yes.
Jon Raad (50:01):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 9. Do you want to pull it on screen?
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah.
Jon Raad (50:08):
Doctor, I want you to look at State's Exhibit 9 and look real hard. Do you see the necklace around Sophie's neck?
Dr. Vincent (50:48):
Yes.
Jon Raad (50:49):
So, will you agree with me that the necklace is still intact around her neck?
Dr. Vincent (50:53):
Yes.
Jon Raad (50:54):
Untouched, perhaps?
Dr. Vincent (50:56):
Possibly. It's underneath the sweatshirt.
Jon Raad (50:58):
Okay. But you see it's on her neck, like one would normally wear it. Do you agree with that?
Dr. Vincent (51:03):
Yes.
Jon Raad (51:05):
So, Doctor, isn't it more consistent that the necklace came off as a result of her separating from the truck or being maneuvered into the truck and being ripped off her neck?
Dr. Vincent (51:15):
I don't think I can comment on it being more consistent just based on this photograph.
Jon Raad (51:19):
You had no problem commenting about the necklace and how it was removed on Friday, but as you sit here today, you don't want to give us an opinion?
David Clifton (51:26):
Objection, argumentative.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (51:27):
That is argumentative and sustained.
Jon Raad (51:30):
Doctor, Dr. Weyrauch performed the autopsy, correct?
Dr. Vincent (51:33):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (51:37):
[inaudible 00:51:35]. I'm going to retrieve the document.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (51:37):
Yep.
Jon Raad (51:46):
Doctor, your office's record lists him as the medical examiner... I'm sorry, lists him as the medical examiner in this case, correct?
Dr. Vincent (51:52):
Yes.
Jon Raad (51:54):
He signed the death certificate with the manner pending?
Dr. Vincent (51:56):
Yes.
Jon Raad (51:56):
And he was your office's forensic fellow for that year?
Dr. Vincent (52:00):
Yes.
Jon Raad (52:02):
And he left your office?
Dr. Vincent (52:03):
He did.
Jon Raad (52:04):
Finished fellowship?
Dr. Vincent (52:05):
Yes.
Jon Raad (52:06):
Moved on?
Dr. Vincent (52:06):
Yes.
Jon Raad (52:07):
Is he with your office currently?
Dr. Vincent (52:08):
He's not with us currently, no.
Jon Raad (52:11):
So, on May 7th, 2024, when the manner was changed to homicide, Dr. Weyrauch was no longer with your office?
Dr. Vincent (52:18):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (52:19):
All right. The pathologist who performed the autopsy did not take part in changing the manner to homicide, correct?
Dr. Vincent (52:28):
The case was discussed with him, but because he no longer worked at our office, he could not legally re-sign the amended death certificate.
Jon Raad (52:40):
Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 41.
Dr. Vincent (52:41):
Okay.
Jon Raad (52:41):
[inaudible 00:52:42].
Dr. Vincent (52:41):
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jon Raad (53:00):
Doctor, do you see Dr. Weyrauch's signature?
Dr. Vincent (53:03):
No.
Jon Raad (53:04):
Who signed in front of Dr. Weyrauch?
Dr. Vincent (53:05):
I did.
Jon Raad (53:06):
And who signed below that?
Dr. Vincent (53:07):
I did.
Jon Raad (53:08):
Under your name?
Dr. Vincent (53:09):
Yes.
Jon Raad (53:10):
So, you signed both for Dr. Weyrauch and for yourself?
Dr. Vincent (53:13):
Yes.
Jon Raad (53:13):
Okay. Now, I know you said that she... Or he co-signed that certificate, the autopsy report with you, correct?
Dr. Vincent (53:21):
He performed it and wrote up the report, yes.
Jon Raad (53:23):
All right. Is he aware that you signed in place of him?
Dr. Vincent (53:25):
Yes. It's how I was instructed to by our chief medical examiner for our policy with him no longer being at the office and how to sign the report.
Jon Raad (53:31):
So, is that typical for you to sign in place of other examiners?
Dr. Vincent (53:35):
When it comes to forensic fellows that have left the office where we've been the supervising attending, yes.
Jon Raad (53:42):
You previously testified in State v. Cruz in Waterbury, in the Waterbury Superior Court on May 6th, 2022. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (53:51):
I believe so. I don't recall specifically which case, I apologize.
Jon Raad (53:55):
If I were to show you a copy of the transcript, would that better refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (53:58):
I believe so. It's probably going to have to be with the name and things like that. We'd have to see what it is.
Jon Raad (54:03):
Yes, sure. I'm going to show you a copy of the transcript. I just want you to take your time. Let me know when this refreshes your recollection.
Dr. Vincent (54:10):
Sure, thank you. [inaudible 00:54:14].
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (54:16):
What time/date are you asking for [inaudible 00:54:18]?
Jon Raad (54:18):
This was from May 6th, 2022.
Judge Christopher A. Pelosi (54:18):
Two?
Jon Raad (54:18):
Yes.
Dr. Vincent (54:18):
Oh, okay. Yes.
Jon Raad (54:53):
Thank you. Doctor, in Cruz, a detective contacted you with new information after you had classified the manner. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (54:59):
Yes.
Jon Raad (54:59):
All right. And in Cruz, you wanted sworn witness statements before you considered changing your classification. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (55:05):
Yes.
Jon Raad (55:07):
And in Cruz, you presented the case at your office's consensus conference. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (55:12):
Yes, I did.
Jon Raad (55:13):
All right. Here, your office's record contains absolutely no entry for a consensus conference in this case, correct?
Dr. Vincent (55:19):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (55:20):
All right. And in Cruz, you discussed the case with the chief medical examiner and he concurred, correct?
Dr. Vincent (55:24):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (55:26):
Here, there's no entry recording the chief medical examiner's concurrence, correct?
Dr. Vincent (55:29):
Correct.
Jon Raad (55:31):
The last entry in your office's log for this case was dated April 11th, 2024, correct?
Dr. Vincent (55:38):
I'm sorry, are you talking about the case at hand or the case-
Jon Raad (55:41):
Case at hand.
Dr. Vincent (55:42):
... in Waterbury?
Jon Raad (55:44):
This case.
Dr. Vincent (55:44):
This case?
Jon Raad (55:46):
Yes.
Dr. Vincent (55:46):
Were the other questions about this case? Because I thought you were asking about the Lisa Chinova case.
Jon Raad (55:51):
I was asking about the Cruz case before, but my-
Dr. Vincent (55:52):
But this question is for this case?
Jon Raad (55:54):
Yeah.
Dr. Vincent (55:55):
Okay, I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
Jon Raad (55:56):
Sure, certainly. The last entry in your office's log for this case was dated April 11th, 2024, correct?
Dr. Vincent (56:03):
I can't say if that's specifically the last one, but I take your word for it that is the date that's in there.
Jon Raad (56:10):
There's no entry recording the decision to classify the death as a homicide, correct?
Dr. Vincent (56:13):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (56:15):
26 days later, after that last entry on April 11th, 2024, the report was certified, correct?
Dr. Vincent (56:21):
Yes.
Jon Raad (56:24):
Doctor, cause of death is the injury that results in death, would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (56:27):
Yes.
Jon Raad (56:28):
And here, this is blunt impact injuries of the torso, correct?
Dr. Vincent (56:33):
This is torso, head, and extremities.
Jon Raad (56:37):
Blunt impact injuries of the torso, correct?
Dr. Vincent (56:41):
I believe that that's not the entire cause of death, if I recall correctly what I testified last week.
Jon Raad (56:54):
May I show you State's Exhibit 41?
Dr. Vincent (56:56):
Yes. Okay, I see that right. My apologies.
Jon Raad (57:09):
Doctor, here, that is blunt impact injuries of the torso, correct?
Dr. Vincent (57:14):
That is correct, my apologies.
Jon Raad (57:16):
Manner of death is a classification of the circumstances surrounding death. Do you agree?
Dr. Vincent (57:20):
Yes.
Jon Raad (57:21):
Right. And the page you reported, titled Final Anatomic Diagnosis, lists what was found in the body, correct?
Dr. Vincent (57:28):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (57:28):
All right. The word homicide does not appear anywhere in those anatomic diagnoses, correct?
Dr. Vincent (57:33):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (57:35):
But you told the jury that homicide, as your office uses the word, means death at the hand of another due to the hostile or illegal acts of another. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (57:45):
It's death at the hand of another or due to the hostile or illegal acts of another person.
Jon Raad (57:51):
Correct. Do you recall that testimony?
Dr. Vincent (57:53):
Yes.
Jon Raad (57:53):
A person can be run over by accident, would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (57:56):
Yes.
Jon Raad (57:57):
Nothing in Sophie's body tells you whether the driver knew she was in the road, correct?
Dr. Vincent (58:01):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:03):
Or whether he saw her?
Dr. Vincent (58:08):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:08):
Or what he intended?
Dr. Vincent (58:08):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:09):
Whether any act was hostile or illegal is not something you can tell in an autopsy, correct?
Dr. Vincent (58:13):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:16):
As medical examiners use it, homicide is not a legal finding that a crime was committed. Do you agree?
Dr. Vincent (58:22):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:23):
It's not a finding that anyone acted recklessly, would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (58:26):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:28):
Whether Mr. Ouellette, Cooper over here, committed any crime is not a question you are here to answer, correct?
Dr. Vincent (58:34):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:36):
Let's talk about alcohol. Alcohol testing is a routine part of the autopsies in your office, correct?
Dr. Vincent (58:42):
Yes, it's part of the routine toxicology panel.
Jon Raad (58:45):
And your office sends its toxicology to NMS, or National Medical Services, the labs there, and relies on its results, correct?
Dr. Vincent (58:52):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (58:53):
Sophie was 17 years old?
Dr. Vincent (58:55):
Yes.
Jon Raad (58:57):
Her blood contained ethanol at 151 milligrams per deciliter of blood alcohol concentration of 0.151. Do you recall that?
Dr. Vincent (59:07):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:08):
And her vitreous fluid measured 169 milligrams per deciliter, correct?
Dr. Vincent (59:12):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:13):
Right. Isn't it true that vitreous fluid is tested to confirm a blood alcohol result, and here it did?
Dr. Vincent (59:20):
Yes. Yes.
Jon Raad (59:22):
No blood was drawn when she arrived at the hospital. So, these are the only measurements of her alcohol that exists, correct?
Dr. Vincent (59:30):
That I am aware of. I don't know if other blood was drawn or not.
Jon Raad (59:35):
Are you aware the laboratory's own reference comments state that ethanol impairs judgment?
Dr. Vincent (59:40):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:41):
Reduces alertness?
Dr. Vincent (59:42):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:43):
And impairs muscular coordination?
Dr. Vincent (59:45):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:46):
You have no basis to disagree with that comment, do you?
Dr. Vincent (59:50):
I do not.
Jon Raad (59:52):
Every injury you showed this jury was in front of you on May 22nd, correct?
Dr. Vincent (59:56):
Yes.
Jon Raad (59:57):
And two days later, your office recorded that Sophie fell from a moving truck, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:03):
Yes, that's what was in the investigator's report.
Jon Raad (01:00:05):
And a month later, after three hours with the full autopsy and the toxicology report in hand, this case was still classified as pending?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:12):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:00:14):
Isn't it true that the state police reconstruction team told you that evidence does not support a run over?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:19):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:00:21):
You never examined the truck or its tires, we established that, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:24):
Only photographs.
Jon Raad (01:00:25):
Only photographs. And you agree a fall can cause rib fractures?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:30):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:00:32):
And about the lung, you would not expect a fall to cause it?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:35):
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Jon Raad (01:00:36):
And with regard to the lung, not that it's impossible, it's just that you wouldn't expect a fall to cause that, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:41):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (01:00:43):
And this is the opinion on which you told this jury, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, that Sophie was run over?
Dr. Vincent (01:00:49):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:00:54):
Doctor, do you recall receiving an email on February 22nd, 2024 from Detective Slaiby regarding Snapchat screenshots of Sophie with a bloody nose?
Dr. Vincent (01:01:04):
Possibly, I receive a lot of emails.
Jon Raad (01:01:06):
If I were to show you a copy of that email, would that refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (01:01:09):
Of course, yes.
(01:01:10)
Yes. Thank you.
Jon Raad (01:01:38):
Doctor, his email didn't include either Sergeant Dicocco or Detective Bronson, the two reconstructionists, did it?
Dr. Vincent (01:01:45):
I apologize, I don't recall who was listed on there, but I do think it was only to me directly.
Jon Raad (01:01:50):
May I show you?
Dr. Vincent (01:01:50):
Sure.
Jon Raad (01:01:51):
Thanks. Better refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (01:01:53):
My apologies, I wasn't looking at who it was sent to. And I'm sorry, could you repeat the detective's names?
Jon Raad (01:02:02):
Sure. Sergeant Dicocco and Detective Bronson.
Dr. Vincent (01:02:05):
Yes. They're not on that email.
Jon Raad (01:02:11):
So, the information came from interviews you did not conduct, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:15):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (01:02:16):
And you never read any sworn statements, did you?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:19):
Not that I recall.
Jon Raad (01:02:21):
More than once, your entries record that the lead detective feels about... I mean, sorry, what the lead detective feels about the evidence, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:30):
Yes. I tried to put in there what their impressions of were, yes.
Jon Raad (01:02:34):
What he feels, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:37):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:02:37):
The detective's feeling is not a medical finding, would you agree?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:39):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (01:02:39):
And you did not independently verify the detective's feelings, did you?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:45):
No.
Jon Raad (01:02:46):
You're not an expert in interpreting text messages, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:49):
No.
Jon Raad (01:02:50):
Audio recordings?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:51):
No.
Jon Raad (01:02:52):
Or what a person was even thinking, are you?
Dr. Vincent (01:02:55):
No.
Jon Raad (01:02:55):
And why Sophie opened the door is a question about what was in her mind, and that is not a medical question, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:02):
That is correct.
Jon Raad (01:03:09):
Did you ever examine the clothes, Doctor, that Sophie was wearing?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:12):
Only photographs.
Jon Raad (01:03:14):
Only photographs. Are you aware if any pattern recognition was ever tested on those clothes?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:19):
I don't know what kind of testing was performed on the clothes, no.
Jon Raad (01:03:21):
Do you know what pattern recognition is?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:23):
I'm not sure specifically what you're referring to.
Jon Raad (01:03:26):
Pattern recognition with regard to clothing, like in this case, are you aware of what that is, yes or no?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:32):
I mean, recognizing patterns on there, yes. And I presume that you're referring to testing that would do comparisons to known patterns.
Jon Raad (01:03:39):
Exactly.
Dr. Vincent (01:03:40):
Okay.
Jon Raad (01:03:40):
Are you aware of any results from that?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:42):
Not that I recall.
Jon Raad (01:03:43):
Are you aware if that was even done in this case?
Dr. Vincent (01:03:46):
I don't recall.
Jon Raad (01:03:51):
No further questions, thank you.
David Clifton (01:04:03):
Good morning, Doctor.
Dr. Vincent (01:04:03):
Good morning.
David Clifton (01:04:04):
I just want to follow up on a couple of questions. When Attorney Raad was talking to you about the purpose of documenting an autopsy report, you were explaining to the jury that you didn't want to put an opinion in there. Why is that?
Dr. Vincent (01:04:18):
As I was saying, we always review our reports as being the editorial, not the news. It's just supposed to record the facts that we have seen from our investigation, from our autopsy report. The idea being that any other competently trained forensic pathologist should be able to pick up the report and understand how we, the writer, came to our conclusion, and then form their own opinion about whether or not they agree with that opinion. We do not put in things such as opinion statements and other type things to influence the reader because it is the purview and our philosophy that we will be asked for our opinions, such as here in court. And that's when we will have the chance to explain our opinion and how we came to it.
David Clifton (01:04:59):
Is your concern influencing some other forensic pathologist later on?
Dr. Vincent (01:05:03):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:05:05):
And you were asked a few questions about the telephone call log. Can you tell the jury what is the purpose of the telephone call log?
Dr. Vincent (01:05:11):
The telephone call log is basically just a running dialogue of the course of the investigation. It's named the telephone notice of death because it's really just the first thing that's generated when the case gets reported to our office. So, it's sort of that first snapshot of information. Any investigation is fluid. All this information is changing. There are many times where the initial information we are given in that initial call ends up being different by the time we do the autopsy and more information comes to light later on.
(01:05:42)
Additionally, throughout the course of the investigation, and even after a case has been signed out, when we get different calls about the case, whether it be from investigating agencies or even family members asking questions, things like that, we will put notes into that running log, just trying to document the conversation that we had, and just try to kind of capture the information that was provided to us at that time.
David Clifton (01:06:07):
And is your purpose to list what information you're given, not necessarily what information you are giving?
Dr. Vincent (01:06:14):
Yes, the comments that are made are solely the information that we are receiving.
David Clifton (01:06:20):
And is it common practice when making a determination of manner of death to request information from the investigative agencies?
Dr. Vincent (01:06:31):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:06:31):
Why is that?
Dr. Vincent (01:06:33):
So, you can't perform an autopsy in a vacuum. The circumstances around how an autopsy occurred and how the death occurred are what influence our determination of manner. That's the definition of manner of death. We can look at two people with the same injuries and they can have completely different stories on how they get those injuries. And so we need to have information and we have to rely on other investigating agencies a lot of times to get that information. And we do have subpoena power to request this information.
David Clifton (01:07:02):
When you say you have subpoena power, do you have the authority to require those agencies to give you whatever you need to make your determination?
Dr. Vincent (01:07:09):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:07:11):
During the review of the case of Sophie, was there ever a question of the manner of death?
Dr. Vincent (01:07:18):
I'm sorry, can you repeat that again?
David Clifton (01:07:19):
Sure. During the autopsy and reporting of the autopsy of Sophie, was there a question as to the manner of death?
Dr. Vincent (01:07:28):
Yes. The manner of death was a question pretty much the whole time until it was finalized.
David Clifton (01:07:32):
And was there a question as to the cause of death?
Dr. Vincent (01:07:35):
No.
David Clifton (01:07:37):
You were asked some questions about a consensus conference from another case. What is a consensus conference?
Dr. Vincent (01:07:43):
So, every day in our office we have a meeting, generally at 3 o'clock, where it's all the doctors in the office and we do a couple different things. We discuss the cases that were performed that day, but it's also a space where we can bring cases to discuss and get the opinions of the other doctors within the office, which is why we call it a consensus conference.
David Clifton (01:08:02):
And was Sophie's case presented...
Dr. Vincent (01:08:00):
... why we call it a consensus conference.
David Clifton (01:08:02):
And was Sophie's case presented at a consensus conference?
Dr. Vincent (01:08:05):
Yes, it was presented at several.
David Clifton (01:08:08):
And during the discussions at that consensus conference, who was there, to your memory?
Dr. Vincent (01:08:15):
So, I can't remember specifically every doctor that was there personally, just because it's a couple years ago we've had different doctors, but there was at least six of us, probably more. Our chief medical examiner was definitely there, and our deputy chief was also present while we discussed this case on multiple occasions.
David Clifton (01:08:39):
And was there ever any discussion about the cause of death being a run over event?
Dr. Vincent (01:08:45):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:08:46):
And was there ever any contention about whether this was [inaudible 01:08:49] event from any of the doctors?
Dr. Vincent (01:08:52):
No, we reached consensus that that was the mechanism of death.
David Clifton (01:08:56):
The discussion having to do with the manner of death being a homicide, was that discussed?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:01):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:09:02):
And was that what you were requesting information of and documenting in your telephone notice of death log?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:08):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:09:09):
And you were asked about that last thing that you requested on May 11th of 2024. Do you recall specifically what the last item that you received before making that determination was?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:20):
I don't recall specifically.
David Clifton (01:09:22):
If I showed you that document, would it help you refresh your recollection?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:25):
Yeah. Yes. Thank you. You said April 11th?
David Clifton (01:09:39):
Of 2024.
Dr. Vincent (01:09:41):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:09:42):
Does that help to refresh your recollection as to the last thing that you were provided?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:46):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:09:46):
What was the last thing that you were provided?
Dr. Vincent (01:09:48):
It was a summary animation report that Detective Slavey had put together. I don't know if he's the one that put it together or if he had requested it be put together, but it was a full timeline of the night's events, with various data and findings, including an overlay of the crash reconstruction report.
David Clifton (01:10:05):
And was it a lengthy animation detailing the events of that night [inaudible 01:10:11] you reviewed?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:11):
Yes, I think it was over an hour long or somewhere right around an hour.
David Clifton (01:10:14):
Did it include surveillance footage?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:16):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:10:16):
Did it include text messages?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:18):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:10:18):
Did it include photographs?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:19):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:10:23):
After receiving that, was your office able to come to a consensus as to the manner of death?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:28):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:10:29):
And what was that again?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:30):
Homicide.
David Clifton (01:10:31):
And just again, not for a criminal sense, in terms of a medical sense, what does homicide designation mean?
Dr. Vincent (01:10:39):
So, homicide, again, it's a public health definition, it's death at the hand of another person or due to the hostile or legal actions of another person. When we're making this determination, we do not weigh intent when we make this determination.
David Clifton (01:10:54):
And you were asked a number of questions about those injuries to the back and those pattern abrasions. If we could publish State's Exhibit 53, please. Looking at State's Exhibit 53, specifically the top area of abrasions displayed, can you describe to the jury how that area correlates with the injuries to the ribs and lung?
Dr. Vincent (01:11:30):
Of course. So, right now we're looking at the right of Sophie's back, as you may recall from my testimony, the rib fractures are actually on the left, and there are no fractures on the right-hand side here. Additionally, there is another abrasion up here on the left. So, this pattern abrasion appears to me as it is going from the lower right up to the left this way. When I take into account all of the injuries, this abrasion is telling me that there was an impact there, and then given that Sophie has abrasion on the left side of her face, I believe the left side of her face was against the ground. There's an impact here pushing her, it's then pushing her face against the ground, and they're rolling her, creating pressure on the left side, which is then what's creating those fractures that I see on the left side.
(01:12:20)
And again, as I testified before, with the rib fractures and their impact on the lung and this torsion rolling crushing injury is what's causing the tearing of those lungs. So, the autopsy findings taken together are why I believe that she was run over and that this is a crushing injury.
David Clifton (01:12:40):
And you were asked about the therapeutic procedures performed at the hospital. Was there evidence that you reviewed in the medical records that makes you believe to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that those injuries to the lungs and ribs occurred prior to those therapeutic procedures?
Dr. Vincent (01:12:55):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:12:56):
What is that?
Dr. Vincent (01:12:57):
The fact that there was a significant amount of blood that came when they put in either the chest tube or the thoracotomy.
David Clifton (01:13:10):
Thank you, I have nothing further.
Jon Raad (01:13:15):
Doctor, State's Exhibit 53, is that what you looked at when you compared the photograph of the truck's tire?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:21):
I'm sorry, was 53 the one that was just up?
Jon Raad (01:13:23):
Yes.
Dr. Vincent (01:13:23):
That was one of the photographs, yes.
Jon Raad (01:13:25):
Okay. And you compared that again with a photograph of the truck's tire, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:29):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:13:29):
You just testified that you basically had every resource available to you, determining your cause of death, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:36):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:13:37):
So, you could have asked to see the truck tire, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:40):
Yes, but I had a photograph.
Jon Raad (01:13:42):
You had a photograph. You knew that there were samples taken from the truck tire, correct?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:46):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:13:47):
So, with all those resources available to you, you could have simply asked them, "Hey, I want this tested," right?
Dr. Vincent (01:13:54):
I don't think that I can actually request that.
Jon Raad (01:13:56):
So, do you not have all these resources available to you or you don't?
Dr. Vincent (01:14:01):
So, I believe I could have asked the police to order the testing, but I don't think I could order the testing directly for that.
Jon Raad (01:14:07):
Could you have sent an email saying, "This matter's pending, I see a sample of a tire was taken, can you please test this for pattern recognition with Sophie's clothing?" Could you have done that?
Dr. Vincent (01:14:16):
I suppose, but I felt confident in the photo comparisons.
Jon Raad (01:14:20):
You felt confident from looking at a photograph?
Dr. Vincent (01:14:22):
Yes.
Jon Raad (01:14:23):
Thank you.
David Clifton (01:14:28):
Was it the photograph combined with the injuries that you found on Sophie's body?
Dr. Vincent (01:14:31):
Yes.
David Clifton (01:14:32):
Thank you.
Jon Raad (01:14:32):
No further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:14:35):
All right. Thank you. Dr. Vincent, you can step down.
Dr. Vincent (01:14:37):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:14:39):
[inaudible 01:14:39]. Is there a report there?
Dr. Vincent (01:14:39):
No, this is just, [inaudible 01:14:41]-
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:14:40):
Okay. Appreciate it. Can parties approach?
Christian Watson (01:15:22):
Our next witness will be Liz Arpin.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:24):
Okay.
Christian Watson (01:15:24):
Your Honor, the witness will be testifying to three documents, those documents were reviewed with defense, may have all been marked as full.
Jon Raad (01:15:32):
That's why I said I made a mistake.
Christian Watson (01:15:32):
Oh, sorry.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:32):
Morning.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:15:32):
Good morning.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:32):
I'm just going to have you raise your right hand.
Clerk (01:17:22):
Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God upon penalty of perjury?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:30):
I do.
Clerk (01:17:31):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:33):
Elizabeth Arpin, A-R-P-I-N.
Clerk (01:17:35):
And please state for the record your place of business and business address.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:38):
State of Connecticut Division of Scientific Services at 278 Colony Street, Meriden.
Clerk (01:17:43):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:17:43):
Thank you. Have a seat.
(01:17:43)
All right, Ms. Arpin. State.
Christian Watson (01:17:44):
Thank you. Good morning.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:51):
Good morning.
Christian Watson (01:17:52):
How are you?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:53):
Good.
Christian Watson (01:17:54):
Where do you currently work?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:17:57):
The forensic science lab in Meriden.
Christian Watson (01:18:00):
Okay. And what is your title there?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:00):
I'm a forensic science examiner two.
Christian Watson (01:18:03):
And how did you become a forensic examiner two?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:06):
I was hired initially as a Connecticut Careers trainee, then I was promoted to a science examiner one, and I worked my way up to a two.
Christian Watson (01:18:12):
And how long have you been working at the lab?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:16):
14 and a half years.
Christian Watson (01:18:18):
And what type of education did you receive to qualify for the position that you have?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:22):
Previous to working here, I have a bachelor's degree in a forensic science, and then I performed my senior capstone in the computer crimes unit.
Christian Watson (01:18:30):
And what is that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:32):
The computer crimes unit, now we're the digital forensic unit. It's the unit within the building where we handle all the digital evidence.
Christian Watson (01:18:39):
And have you had any education since receiving your degrees?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:44):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:18:46):
And have you had any additional laboratory experience or did you have any additional laboratory experience before being employed by the Connecticut State Laboratory?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:18:56):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:19:00):
And did you receive training at the lab prior to beginning your case work?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:03):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:19:04):
And what type of training did you receive?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:09):
Prior to this case, I have had my Cellebrite certified training, I've had various trainings throughout, in-house and external, through organizations like NW3C, National White Collar Crime Center, and various other organizations.
Christian Watson (01:19:25):
As part of your casework at the state lab, are you required to take competency tests?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:28):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:19:29):
What's a competency test?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:30):
It's a test once a year, it's from an external company, and they grade us, we answer a series of questions and they grade us pass/fail.
Christian Watson (01:19:38):
And did you pass your competency tests?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:40):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:19:41):
On every occasion?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:42):
Not every one.
Christian Watson (01:19:42):
Okay. And are you also required to take any tests to ensure that you remain confident and proficient in your particular field?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:48):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:19:48):
And what types of tests are those?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:19:51):
In-house, we've done written, we've done verbal, we've done just various multitude of them. I have taken other certifications that have had a class, a written and a multiple choice questions, practicals.
Christian Watson (01:20:04):
Are those known as proficiency tests?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:20:06):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:20:06):
And what particular section of the state lab are you assigned to?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:20:13):
The digital forensic unit.
Christian Watson (01:20:15):
And as part of your duties at the lab, have you had the occasion to perform an extraction on a cell phone that was submitted as an item of evidence?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:20:21):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:20:22):
And how was the cell phone extraction performed?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:20:24):
So, it gets submitted through evidence receiving, chain of custody wise, it ends up in our custody over in our set... We have our own evidence cage. From there, say it gets assigned to me, I will take it out, I'll photograph the evidence, I'll open it, I'll document everything. If there's any damage, if there's anything wrong with the device, photograph everything. I'll initial it, I'll update my notes. I will take the phone... Depending on the state it's provided in, if it's on or if it's off, it depends how we handle it. If it's on, it goes in the Faraday box and then we connect it to the supported software we have to do an extraction.
Christian Watson (01:21:01):
And what is the supported software you have to do an extraction?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:03):
Currently we have Cellebrite and Graykey.
Christian Watson (01:21:05):
And are you familiar with both of those programs?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:08):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:10):
And do you routinely utilize those programs to generate reports pertaining to the data that you received from that extraction?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:17):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:19):
Now, does your laboratory perform testing on items of evidence submitted by police departments across the state?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:23):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:23):
Does that include the Connecticut State Police?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:25):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:26):
And when items of evidence from cases come to the state lab from various police departments, are the items of evidence given a distinct laboratory number?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:34):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:35):
And is each item of evidence assigned an additional item number within that laboratory case?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:39):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:39):
When those items of evidence are brought to the lab, are they secured in an evidence vault until they're worked on?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:45):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:45):
And when they're taken out of that secured vault, are they signed out?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:51):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:51):
And are they then processed by members of your laboratory?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:21:54):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:21:55):
Now, did you perform a cell phone extraction on an iPhone 14 Pro that was submitted by the Connecticut State Police under laboratory number DSS23002981?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:03):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:22:07):
I'll show you, I believe what has been marked as State's Exhibit 71. Ask if you're familiar with that item, it's a full exhibit?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:16):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:22:17):
Is that the cell phone that you performed the extraction?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:19):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:22:20):
And when you performed that extraction, did you remove that cell phone from the vault in order to do that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:24):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:22:31):
And what is the item number on that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:34):
Our item number is 003.
Christian Watson (01:22:40):
And does it say on the evidence tag there indicated, does it say the location of where that item was recovered?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:22:47):
On the agency's tag, it says, "From the person of Cooper Ouellette."
Christian Watson (01:22:51):
Okay. Thank you. And does it contain Cooper Ouellette's date of birth as well?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:02):
There is one listed, yes.
Christian Watson (01:23:03):
And what is it?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:06):
02/16/2005.
Christian Watson (01:23:07):
Thank you. Now, when you were asked to perform a cell phone extraction on that cell phone, was a request made to limit the extraction to certain dates?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:18):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:23:18):
And what was the request that was made?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:21):
The warrant was restricted to limit everything from a very specific date range, and then I had to remove attorney-client privilege as well.
Christian Watson (01:23:28):
And is that date range May 19th of 2023 to 05/26 of 2023?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:36):
I believe so, yes.
Christian Watson (01:23:37):
Did you honor that request?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:38):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:23:39):
Did you perform an extraction on that cell phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:42):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:23:42):
And when was that extraction performed?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:45):
As soon as it was submitted. I believe it was... Oh, I don't know the exact date off the top of my head.
Christian Watson (01:23:58):
Can you please tell us how you performed the extraction on that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:23:59):
So, when it comes into my custody, I update the chain of custody, everything. I will photograph the evidence as a whole, focusing on anything, I open the bag in a separate location, take it out, photograph the device front and back. If there's a case on it, I may or may not take it on or off, and then it gets connected to the software, which is a standalone system to do the extraction, whatever's available for it, and then I will bring the extraction on a drive back to my workstation and I will examine it.
Christian Watson (01:24:29):
And did you do that in this particular case?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:24:31):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:24:32):
Did you limit your examination to the timeframe indicated?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:24:35):
I created the report, yes.
Christian Watson (01:24:40):
When you performed that extraction on that phone, did you obtain call history logs from that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:24:44):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:24:45):
And were they from the timeframe that was limited?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:24:47):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:24:47):
And did you generate a report that shows the call history logs from that cell phone for 05/19 of '23 to 05/21 of '23?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:24:57):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:24:58):
And did you generate reports for text messages that occurred during that timeframe as well?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:02):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:25:04):
And when you generated those reports with text messages that occurred during that time period, did you generate separate reports for each person or phone number that was contacted for that particular phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:16):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:25:17):
I'll show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 77, it's a full exhibit in front of you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:25:21):
I apologize, what exhibit is this?
Christian Watson (01:25:33):
77, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:25:34):
77.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:36):
Okay.
Christian Watson (01:25:36):
And do you recognize that document?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:38):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:25:38):
Is that a report that you generated as it pertains to the call history logs of that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:42):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:25:44):
Is that extraction report the call history log from Cooper Ouellette's cell phone from 05/19 of '23 to 05/21 of '23?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:52):
This starts at 5/20.
Christian Watson (01:25:54):
Okay.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:25:56):
And goes to 5/21. Yeah.
Christian Watson (01:25:58):
Thank you. And does that report contain the date and the time phone calls were made or received from that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:05):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:05):
And does it contain how long each call was?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:08):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:09):
And does it contain the name and the number of the person that called that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:12):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:14):
Does it contain the name and the number of anyone that Cooper Ouellette called from that phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:21):
Yes, it goes both ways.
Christian Watson (01:26:23):
Okay. Now, you previously testified that you created extraction reports for each phone number that either texted Cooper Ouellette or Cooper Ouellette texted for that time period. Is that correct?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:35):
From the device, yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:36):
Yes. And did those reports that were generated include the text messages that were sent or received?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:42):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:44):
I'll show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 78 and 79, are the two reports to your right, I believe. Are those the two of the reports that you created?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:26:56):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:26:56):
Those are also full exhibits by agreement. Were those extraction reports generated from the extraction of Cooper Ouellette's cell phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:04):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:27:06):
Now, are each of those two reports separate contacts that he had saved on his phone?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:10):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:27:12):
Looking at State's Exhibit 78, how many pages is that report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:15):
Two.
Christian Watson (01:27:17):
And does that report contain the name and the number of the person Cooper Ouellette either texted or received the text from?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:22):
Yes, the other party.
Christian Watson (01:27:24):
Okay. And how many text messages are indicated on that report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:28):
Three.
Christian Watson (01:27:29):
And who are the participants in those text messages?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:32):
The device owner, listed as Cooper, and then the other party is listed as Mama Lynn.
Christian Watson (01:27:39):
And what is the significance of the green text box indicated on that report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:42):
The green would be from the device, whoever's texting, and then the blue would be from the other party.
Christian Watson (01:27:49):
Now, looking at that first text message that's displayed in that green box there, can you see that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:53):
Yep.
Christian Watson (01:27:55):
And can you please tell us who sent that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:27:57):
That is from the owner of the device, Cooper.
Christian Watson (01:27:59):
Okay. And who was he sending the text message to?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:02):
It was to Mama Lynn.
Christian Watson (01:28:06):
And what time did he send that text message to Mama Lynn?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:08):
It is recorded at 12:36 AM on 05/21.
Christian Watson (01:28:14):
And what did he say to Mama Lynn in that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:18):
"If you have any questions, please text me or call me. Is Sophie okay?"
Christian Watson (01:28:21):
Can you read what it says again, please? I believe you missed a word.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:28):
Sorry. "If you have any questions, please text me or call. Messaging. Is Sophie okay?"
Christian Watson (01:28:35):
Thank you. And did Mama Lynn respond to that text message Cooper Ouellette sent her on 12:36?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:45):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:28:46):
Okay.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:51):
It says-
Christian Watson (01:28:51):
What time did she respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:28:54):
It's recorded as read by the user at 05/21 at 7:34 AM.
Christian Watson (01:29:00):
And what time was it sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:07):
It was recorded at 12:41 AM.
Christian Watson (01:29:08):
12:41, on what date?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:10):
On 05/21/23.
Christian Watson (01:29:13):
Now, is that blue box beneath the green one that you had just previously testified about?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:17):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:29:18):
And what did Mama Lynn say to Cooper Ouellette in response to, "Is Sophie okay?"
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:24):
"No- she's getting X-rays and lines put in and there are about five people working on her."
Christian Watson (01:29:34):
Now, looking at that report that's in front of you, can you please tell us if Cooper Ouellette responded to that text message from Mama Lynn?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:42):
There is none recorded.
Christian Watson (01:29:44):
And did Mama Lynn send him another text after that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:47):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:29:49):
Using that report, can you please point out that text message on that exhibit?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:29:53):
Yep. It was recorded at 12:42 AM on 05/21, and it says, "Are you home safely?"
Christian Watson (01:30:05):
And did she send that to Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:05):
To the device, yes.
Christian Watson (01:30:08):
Now turning to State's Exhibit 79, that's the other extraction report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:12):
Yep.
Christian Watson (01:30:13):
Who are the participants in that text thread?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:16):
The owner, listed as Cooper, and then the other party is CJ McIntyre.
Christian Watson (01:30:20):
And how many pages is that report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:27):
Six, seven, eight.
Christian Watson (01:30:31):
And does that report contain black areas on it that are redacted?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:36):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:30:37):
And does that report contain black areas that are redacted as to what the text was indicated?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:43):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:30:43):
When you generated your report originally, were those black boxes or areas a part of your report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:51):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:30:51):
Now, when you generated the report originally, were those black boxes on the original report you generated?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:58):
That I generated?
Christian Watson (01:30:58):
Yes.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:30:59):
I did not include them.
Christian Watson (01:31:05):
Okay. [inaudible 01:31:06] State's Exhibit...
Jon Raad (01:31:06):
I don't think the redacted one's in there.
Christian Watson (01:31:11):
May I have one moment please?
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:12):
You may.
Christian Watson (01:31:12):
[inaudible 01:31:13].
Jon Raad (01:31:12):
I apologize. [inaudible 01:31:27].
Christian Watson (01:31:29):
Can you hit the button, please?
Jon Raad (01:31:30):
Sorry.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:30):
Yes, sir.
Christian Watson (01:31:31):
So, I'll show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 79.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:31:34):
Yep.
Christian Watson (01:31:39):
So, who are the participants in that report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:31:42):
Again, the device owner is Cooper, and then the other party is listed as CJ McIntyre.
Christian Watson (01:31:47):
And... Scroll down, please. [inaudible 01:31:53]. Keep going, please. Keep going. Can we go back up? [inaudible 01:32:15]. Do you see what's displayed there?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:26):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:32:26):
Okay. And the green box indicates what?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:29):
That the user of the device sent it.
Christian Watson (01:32:33):
Okay. And looking at that green box that's indicated on that exhibit, can you tell us what page that is on in your report?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:39):
Page three.
Christian Watson (01:32:40):
Okay. And looking at that green box that's displayed there, who sent that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:47):
The device owner listed as Cooper.
Christian Watson (01:32:50):
And who was the text message sent to?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:53):
CJ McIntyre.
Christian Watson (01:32:54):
And what time was that text message sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:32:57):
It was delivered at 05/20/23 at 6:42 PM.
Christian Watson (01:33:00):
Okay. And what did Cooper Ouellette text CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:05):
"Are we drinking tonight?"
Christian Watson (01:33:07):
Can you go down please? And did CJ McIntyre respond to that text?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:14):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:33:16):
And did he respond to Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:17):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:33:19):
And what was his response?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:21):
"We better fucking be."
Christian Watson (01:33:22):
And what time was that text message sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:24):
At 6:42 PM on 05/20/23.
Christian Watson (01:33:26):
Okay. Can you go down please? And did CJ McIntyre then send another text message to Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:35):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:33:36):
And what time did he send that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:38):
It was sent at 6:43PM at 05/20/23.
Christian Watson (01:33:44):
And what did he say to Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:46):
"If I'm not hammered by 9:00, it was a terrible night."
Christian Watson (01:33:50):
And did Cooper Ouellette respond to that text message you sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:53):
The device did, yep.
Christian Watson (01:33:54):
Okay. And what was the response from Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:33:57):
At 6:43 PM as well, " LMAO."
Christian Watson (01:34:03):
And what do you know LMAO to mean?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:04):
In common terms, laughing my ass off.
Christian Watson (01:34:06):
Okay. Can you go down, please? The next text message in that thread, was that from Cooper Ouellette or from CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:19):
From CJ McIntyre.
Christian Watson (01:34:20):
And what time did CJ McIntyre text Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:24):
6:43 PM on 05/20/23.
Christian Watson (01:34:28):
Okay. And what did CJ McIntyre text Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:34):
It says, "Where are we drinking?"
Christian Watson (01:34:36):
Go down, please. Cooper Ouellette respond to that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:40):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:34:41):
And is he indicated in the green there?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:44):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:34:46):
And did he respond to CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:48):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:34:48):
And what time did he respond to CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:51):
6:49 PM on 05/20/23.
Christian Watson (01:34:54):
And what did he tell CJ McIntyre [inaudible 01:34:57]?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:34:56):
"Tyler's shop."
Christian Watson (01:34:57):
Go down, please. And did CJ McIntyre respond to that text message from Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:05):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:35:06):
What time did he respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:09):
7:42 PM on 05/20/23.
Christian Watson (01:35:12):
And what did he say?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:14):
"Sounds good."
Christian Watson (01:35:31):
May I have a moment, please?
(01:35:31)
[inaudible 01:35:32] the next message in that thread, please. And are these messages in order in terms of the date and the time that they're sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:41):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:35:43):
Did Cooper Ouellette then text CJ McIntyre after the previous text you just testified to?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:50):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:35:50):
And what time did he send that text?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:54):
05/20/23 at 8:25 PM.
Christian Watson (01:35:57):
And what did he text CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:35:59):
"You coming?"
Christian Watson (01:36:02):
And did CJ McIntyre respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:04):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:36:05):
What date and time did he respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:07):
05/20/23 at 8:34 PM.
Christian Watson (01:36:09):
And what was his response?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:10):
"Yes."
Christian Watson (01:36:12):
Go down, please. Did Cooper Ouellette then respond back to CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:19):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:36:20):
And what time in the date did he respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:22):
05/20/23 at 8:35 PM.
Christian Watson (01:36:25):
And what did he send CJ McIntyre?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:27):
"What's your ETA?"
Christian Watson (01:36:35):
Is there additional text message within that thread after that?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:38):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:36:38):
Okay. And who sent the next text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:43):
This one is from CJ McIntyre.
Christian Watson (01:36:45):
And who did he send it to?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:46):
To the device owner of Cooper.
Christian Watson (01:36:49):
And what is the date and the time that he sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:53):
It was sent on 05/21/23 at 5:27 PM.
Christian Watson (01:36:56):
And what did CJ McIntyre text Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:36:59):
"Hey man, you mind if me and Morgan swing over quick? I'm sorry to hear about all of this."
Christian Watson (01:37:06):
Did Cooper Ouellette respond to that text message?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:08):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:37:09):
And what's the date and the time of that response?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:11):
05/21/23 at 5:27 PM.
Christian Watson (01:37:16):
And what was his response?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:17):
"You can."
Christian Watson (01:37:32):
May I have a moment?
(01:37:32)
And after Cooper Ouellette texted him, "You can't," is there a response from CJ McIntyre indicating?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:38):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:37:39):
And what is the date and the time that that was sent?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:43):
05/21/23 at 5:28 PM.
Christian Watson (01:37:47):
And what did CJ McIntyre text Cooper Ouellette?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:51):
"Okay, we will be there soon."
Christian Watson (01:37:53):
And did Cooper Ouellette respond?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:37:57):
Yes.
Christian Watson (01:37:57):
And what time did he respond.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:38:01):
05/21/23 at 5:29 PM.
Christian Watson (01:38:05):
And what was his response?
Elizabeth Arpin (01:38:06):
"Okay."
Christian Watson (01:38:06):
I have nothing further. Thank you.
Jon Raad (01:38:06):
May I have a moment, Your Honor?
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:38:06):
Take your time.
Unknown (01:38:06):
I found it.
Jon Raad (01:38:59):
No further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:38:59):
All right. Thank you very much.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:39:01):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:39:02):
Please don't discuss your testimony with anybody else, Mr. Arpin.
Elizabeth Arpin (01:39:05):
Yes. Thank you very much.
Judge Chris Pelosi (01:39:12):
Have nice day, okay? Other way, Ms. Arpin, that way. Appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our 15-minute recess, leave the notebooks on the chair. Again, no talking to each other, staff, anybody about the case. Enjoy your break, and I'll see you in about 15.
Bailiff (01:39:21):
Court is now back in session. Good morning, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:02:44):
Good morning, everybody. Have a seat.
(02:02:44)
All right. Is State ready for its next witness?
State Attorney (02:02:45):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:02:45):
All right. Ready for the jury?
State Attorney (02:02:46):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:21):
Good morning. All right, will the parties stipulate for the presence of the jury?
Defense Attorney (02:04:23):
Yes, Your Honor.
State Attorney (02:04:23):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:23):
All right. Have a seat. All right. State?
State Attorney (02:04:29):
State next calls Theresa Dunlop.
Theresa Dunlop (02:04:55):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:55):
Take your time, Ms. Dunlop. How are you doing?
Theresa Dunlop (02:04:55):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:56):
All right. I'm just going to have you raise your right hand, okay?
Clerk (02:04:57):
Do you solemnly swear, or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be, that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, upon penalty of perjury?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:07):
I do.
Clerk (02:05:07):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:10):
Theresa Clifford Dunlop, D-U-N-L-O-P.
Clerk (02:05:13):
And please state your town of residence.
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:15):
Burlington, Connecticut.
Clerk (02:05:16):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:05:17):
Thank you, Ms. Dunlop. Make yourself comfortable, okay?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:20):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:05:21):
It's a big courtroom. I'm just going to ask you to keep up your voice if you can, okay?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:24):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:05:25):
I appreciate it.
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:26):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:05:26):
State's going to ask you some questions.
State Attorney (02:05:28):
Thank you, Your Honor.
(02:05:29)
Good morning, ma'am.
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:30):
Good morning.
State Attorney (02:05:31):
Do you own a business?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:32):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:05:33):
What business do you own?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:34):
Hogan's Cider Mill.
State Attorney (02:05:36):
And in May of 2023, did Hogan's Cider Mill have cameras on the exterior of the building?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:41):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:05:42):
And were those cameras operational on May 20th and May 21st of 2023?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:47):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:05:49):
Can you describe where those cameras were located on the exterior of your business?
Theresa Dunlop (02:05:54):
There was one on the right side of the building and one on the front.
State Attorney (02:05:58):
And where did those cameras face?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:00):
They faced the street.
State Attorney (02:06:01):
What street was that?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:03):
I'm sorry. Spielman Highway.
State Attorney (02:06:05):
Is there another name?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:08):
Route 4.
State Attorney (02:06:12):
Route 4. And shortly after May 20th of 2023, did the Connecticut State Police come to your business and request surveillance footage from you?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:19):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:06:20):
And were you able to provide that to them?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:22):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:06:23):
I'm going to show you what's been marked State's Exhibit 81. Can you just take a look at that, see if you recognize it?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:29):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:06:31):
What do you recognize that to be?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:32):
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
State Attorney (02:06:34):
Sure. What do you recognize that to be?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:36):
That's the tape of what was shown on the cameras.
State Attorney (02:06:40):
Were you able to review that flash drive to determine what it contained?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:44):
Yes, this morning.
State Attorney (02:06:46):
And did you affix your signature or your initials to that to signify that you've reviewed it?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:51):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:06:52):
And was there any file on that flash drive that you did not recognize as being surveillance footage from your business?
Theresa Dunlop (02:06:57):
No.
State Attorney (02:06:57):
I'm going to offer it full, Judge.
Defense Attorney (02:07:00):
No objection.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:00):
All right. 81's full.
State Attorney (02:07:03):
I have no more questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:12):
Hang on, Ms. Dunlop. They may ask you a question, okay?
Theresa Dunlop (02:07:15):
All right. Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:17):
You're welcome.
(02:07:17)
Do you have any questions?
Defense Attorney (02:07:19):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:20):
Thank you, Ms. Dunlop. You're all set.
Theresa Dunlop (02:07:21):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:32):
Okay. Next witness?
State Attorney (02:07:33):
Brian Norton.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:15):
Good morning, Mr. Norton. Come on up. I'm going to have you raise your right hand, okay?
Clerk (02:08:21):
Do you solemnly swear, or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be, that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, upon penalty of perjury?
Brian Norton (02:08:29):
I do.
Clerk (02:08:30):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Brian Norton (02:08:32):
Brian Norton, N-O-R-T-O-N.
Clerk (02:08:34):
And please state your town of residence.
Brian Norton (02:08:35):
Burlington.
Clerk (02:08:36):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:37):
Thank you, Mr. Norton. Have a seat.
(02:08:40)
State?
State Attorney (02:08:41):
Thank you, Your Honor.
(02:08:42)
Good morning, sir.
Brian Norton (02:08:43):
Good morning.
State Attorney (02:08:44):
In May of 2023, what was your address?
Brian Norton (02:08:48):
6 Fieldview Drive in Burlington.
State Attorney (02:08:50):
And do you have cameras at your residence?
Brian Norton (02:08:52):
I do.
State Attorney (02:08:53):
And how many cameras are on your residence?
Brian Norton (02:08:56):
One.
State Attorney (02:08:57):
Where did that camera face?
Brian Norton (02:08:59):
Faced in a westerly direction, towards the intersection of Polly Dan and Fieldview Drive.
State Attorney (02:09:06):
And was that camera operational on May 20th into the early morning hours of May 21st of 2023?
Brian Norton (02:09:12):
Yes, it was.
State Attorney (02:09:13):
And did there come a time where state police requested your surveillance footage shortly after May 20th of 2023?
Brian Norton (02:09:20):
They did.
State Attorney (02:09:21):
And were you able to provide that to them?
Brian Norton (02:09:23):
I was.
State Attorney (02:09:24):
This morning, were you able to review a flash drive in my office?
Brian Norton (02:09:29):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:09:29):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 84. See if you recognize this.
Brian Norton (02:09:36):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:09:37):
What do you recognize it to be?
Brian Norton (02:09:39):
This is the thumb drive that contains the video surveillance from my home.
State Attorney (02:09:44):
And when you reviewed it this morning, was there any file on that that you did not recognize as surveillance footage from your home?
Brian Norton (02:09:49):
No.
State Attorney (02:09:51):
I'm going to offer it full.
Defense Attorney (02:09:53):
No objection.
State Attorney (02:09:53):
I have no further questions, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:09:58):
All right. Anything from the defense? Take your time. Last one is 81, correct?
State Attorney (02:10:03):
Correct.
Defense Attorney (02:10:09):
Just a few questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:10:10):
Sure.
Defense Attorney (02:10:13):
Good afternoon. How long have you lived on Fieldview?
Brian Norton (02:10:19):
12 years.
Defense Attorney (02:10:20):
12 years. Okay. Are there currently road markings on the asphalt, like a double yellow, for example?
Brian Norton (02:10:29):
On Fieldview?
Defense Attorney (02:10:29):
Yes.
Brian Norton (02:10:30):
No.
Defense Attorney (02:10:31):
Any markings at all, like a breakdown lane marking, white line marking?
State Attorney (02:10:36):
No.
Defense Attorney (02:10:36):
Nothing? Thank you.
State Attorney (02:10:41):
No redirect.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:10:42):
All right. Thank you, Mr. Norton. You're all set.
Brian Norton (02:10:45):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:10:45):
Have a good day.
State Attorney (02:10:54):
State will next call Brian Curran.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:11:02):
C-U-R-A-N?
State Attorney (02:11:03):
I believe it's two Rs, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:11:04):
Okay. Good morning, Mr. Curran.
Brian Curran (02:11:30):
Good morning.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:11:32):
All right. I'll just have you raise your right hand.
Clerk (02:11:34):
Do you solemnly swear, or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be, that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, upon penalty of perjury?
Brian Curran (02:11:43):
I do.
Clerk (02:11:44):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Brian Curran (02:11:46):
Brian Curran, C-U-R-R-A-N.
Clerk (02:11:49):
And please state your town of residence.
Brian Curran (02:11:50):
Burlington.
Clerk (02:11:51):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:11:52):
Have a seat, Mr. Curran.
(02:11:56)
All right. State?
State Attorney (02:11:57):
Thank you.
(02:11:57)
Good morning, sir.
Brian Curran (02:11:59):
Good morning.
State Attorney (02:11:59):
In May of 2023, where did you live?
Brian Curran (02:12:02):
70 Johnnycake Mountain Road, Burlington, Connecticut.
State Attorney (02:12:06):
And at that time, did you have surveillance cameras on your home?
Brian Curran (02:12:11):
I do.
State Attorney (02:12:12):
And were they in good working operation on the night of May 20th into the early morning hours of May 21st of 2023?
Brian Curran (02:12:18):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:12:20):
And can you describe where those cameras were located on your home?
Brian Curran (02:12:23):
I have one off the back of my garage and I have the one on the front, and the one on the front faces out to Johnnycake, so it covers my entire driveway and pretty much the whole front yard.
State Attorney (02:12:34):
And did there come a time shortly after May 20th of 2023 where the Connecticut State Police came to your home and asked for your surveillance footage?
Brian Curran (02:12:42):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:12:42):
And were you able to provide that to them?
Brian Curran (02:12:44):
I did.
State Attorney (02:12:46):
I'm going to show you what's been marked State's Exhibit 83. Do you recognize that?
Brian Curran (02:12:55):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:12:57):
What do you recognize that to be?
Brian Curran (02:12:59):
It looks to be a thumb drive that I had watched the video and signed off on it this morning.
State Attorney (02:13:05):
And when you looked at that thumb drive, was there any file on that thumb drive that was not the surveillance footage from your home?
Brian Curran (02:13:11):
No.
State Attorney (02:13:12):
And is that in the same or substantially the same condition as when you turned it over to the police?
Brian Curran (02:13:15):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:13:17):
I'm going to offer it full, Judge.
Defense Attorney (02:13:22):
No objection.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:13:23):
Full.
State Attorney (02:13:23):
I have no further questions.
Defense Attorney (02:13:23):
No further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:13:23):
Thank you, Mr. Curran. You're all set.
Brian Curran (02:13:24):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:13:25):
You're welcome.
State Attorney (02:13:44):
State will next call Laurie Arel.
(02:13:44)
Did there come a time shortly after May 20th, 2023, where the Connecticut State Police requested your surveillance footage?
Laurie Arel (02:15:21):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:15:22):
And were you able to provide that to them?
Laurie Arel (02:15:23):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:15:25):
I'm going to show you what's been marked State's Exhibit 5 for identification. See if you recognize it.
Laurie Arel (02:15:33):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:15:34):
What do you recognize that to be?
Laurie Arel (02:15:36):
I just looked at this this morning and signed and dated it.
State Attorney (02:15:40):
And what was on that drive when you looked at it?
Laurie Arel (02:15:42):
So front view of the camera from the date in question and also the back from the date in question.
State Attorney (02:15:49):
Was there any file on that drive that you did not recognize as your surveillance footage?
Laurie Arel (02:15:53):
No.
State Attorney (02:15:54):
And were those the files that you turned over to the Connecticut State Police when requested?
Laurie Arel (02:15:57):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:15:58):
And are they in the same or substantially the same condition as when you turned them over?
Laurie Arel (02:16:01):
Yes.
State Attorney (02:16:01):
Offer full-
David Clifton (02:16:00):
... substantially the same condition as when you [inaudible 02:16:02]?
Laurie Arel (02:16:02):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:16:02):
Offer full?
Jon Raad (02:16:02):
No objection.
David Clifton (02:16:02):
No further questions, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:16:16):
That's full. Hang on. Do you have any questions?
Jon Raad (02:16:17):
No questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:16:18):
All right. You done, Attorney Clifton?
David Clifton (02:16:20):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:16:20):
All right. You're all set, Ms. Arel. Thank you very much.
David Clifton (02:16:34):
State's next witness is Kerri Ouellette.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:17:21):
Thank you, Ms. Ouellette. I'm just going to have you raise your right hand and face the clerk, okay?
Clerk (02:17:25):
Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm that [inaudible 02:17:28] that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God upon penalty of perjury?
Kerri Ouellette (02:17:34):
I do.
Clerk (02:17:34):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Kerri Ouellette (02:17:36):
Kerri Ouellette, O-U-E-L-L-E-T-T-E.
Clerk (02:17:39):
And please state your town and residence.
Kerri Ouellette (02:17:40):
Arlington, Connecticut.
Clerk (02:17:42):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:17:44):
Thank you, Ms. Ouellette. Ms. Ouellette, you're soft-spoken, so I'm just going to ask you to keep your voice up. It's a pretty big courtroom, okay?
Kerri Ouellette (02:17:47):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:17:48):
Thanks. Give me a second. All right. Attorney Clifton.
David Clifton (02:17:57):
Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, ma'am.
Kerri Ouellette (02:17:58):
Good morning.
David Clifton (02:17:59):
We haven't spoken before, have we?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:01):
No, we have not.
David Clifton (02:18:02):
My name's Dave Clifton. I'm going to be asking you some questions. I just ask that you listen carefully and answer the questions that I ask, okay?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:08):
Okay.
David Clifton (02:18:10):
Do you know the defendant, Cooper Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:12):
Yes, I do.
David Clifton (02:18:13):
How do you know him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:14):
He is my son.
David Clifton (02:18:16):
And do you live with him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:18):
Not currently.
David Clifton (02:18:19):
In May of 2023, did you live with him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:21):
Yes, I did.
David Clifton (02:18:23):
Was there anyone else living with you at that time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:26):
My other son, yes.
David Clifton (02:18:27):
And what's your other son's name?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:28):
Finley Ouellette.
David Clifton (02:18:31):
And in May 21st of 2023, how old was your son, Cooper Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:38):
He was 18.
David Clifton (02:18:40):
And in May 21st of 2023, how old was your son Finley Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:45):
He was 16.
David Clifton (02:18:54):
Do you see the name published in State's Exhibit one?
Kerri Ouellette (02:18:59):
Nothing yet. Yes.
David Clifton (02:19:01):
Do you recognize that person?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:03):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:19:04):
For the remainder of your testimony, I'm going to ask you to call her Sophie, okay?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:07):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:19:10):
On May 21st, 2023, did you know Sophie?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:16):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:19:17):
About how long had you known her?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:18):
Well, I had first known about Sophie when she was younger, much younger, because our kids played together, but really knowing her, I'd known her since she came back to the school system. So she was in my younger son's grade, so they were in the eighth grade together. So I'm thinking 2019. It was right before the pandemic is when she came back to Har-Bur Middle School.
David Clifton (02:19:46):
So as of May 21st, 2023, about four years?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:49):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:19:50):
And in May of 2023, were you the registered owner of a black Chevy Silverado?
Kerri Ouellette (02:19:57):
Yes, I was.
David Clifton (02:19:58):
And did there come a time in May of 2023 where that truck was seized by the police?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:03):
Yes, it was.
David Clifton (02:20:04):
Do you recall that day?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:05):
Yes, I do.
David Clifton (02:20:08):
In the early morning hours of May 21st, 2023, did you notice state police cruisers outside your residence?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:17):
I did not notice them until I woke up that morning.
David Clifton (02:20:21):
About when was that?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:22):
5:30.
David Clifton (02:20:25):
And when you first woke up and noticed those cruisers outside your residence, what did you do?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:34):
I didn't do anything at that time.
David Clifton (02:20:36):
Okay.
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:37):
They were not in my driveway.
David Clifton (02:20:38):
Okay. Did there come a time where you made contact with the detectives that were outside?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:43):
Yes, I did.
David Clifton (02:20:44):
About how much time had passed between when you first noticed them and when you went outside?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:47):
Almost an hour.
David Clifton (02:20:49):
And in that hour, at any point, did you speak with your son, Cooper Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:54):
No, I did not.
David Clifton (02:20:55):
Did you speak with your son, Finley Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:20:57):
No, I did not.
David Clifton (02:20:59):
Who was home when you noticed those police vehicles on your street?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:04):
It was myself, it was Cooper, and my significant other was there, but he left.
David Clifton (02:21:09):
Okay. And was your son Finley there?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:13):
No, he was not.
David Clifton (02:21:17):
Did you wake up Cooper Ouellette and inform him of the police vehicles?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:23):
No, I did not.
David Clifton (02:21:26):
Did you in any way speak with Cooper Ouellette before you spoke with the detectives that day?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:31):
The initial time I spoke with them?
David Clifton (02:21:33):
From when you woke up, to that initial interaction with the police, did you speak with your son, Cooper Ouellette?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:38):
No, I did not.
David Clifton (02:21:41):
When you spoke with the detectives, were you aware that they had body cameras on? Did you see them?
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:49):
I don't recall if I distinctly remember.
David Clifton (02:21:51):
Okay.
Kerri Ouellette (02:21:52):
I think I knew cops carried them. I don't know if I specifically noticed theirs though.
David Clifton (02:21:58):
And have you had the opportunity to watch body cam footage of your interaction with those police officers prior to today?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:05):
Yes, I have.
David Clifton (02:22:09):
And when you spoke with the police that morning, did they knock on the door or did you go greet them?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:13):
I met them in the driveway halfway.
David Clifton (02:22:17):
And do you recall what was your first interaction with them when you first asked them?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:22):
Yes, I do.
David Clifton (02:22:23):
What was that?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:26):
I said, "Is Finn dead?"
David Clifton (02:22:27):
Sorry, you said what?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:27):
I said, "Is Finn dead?"
David Clifton (02:22:28):
Do you recall specifically asking, "Is my son okay?"
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:32):
Possibly, I said that. I don't recall that exactly.
David Clifton (02:22:37):
Okay. And the police responded that they were looking to speak with your son, Cooper, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:40):
They did.
David Clifton (02:22:41):
And they in fact told you that something had happened between him and his girlfriend, Sophie, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:22:48):
I don't recall that.
David Clifton (02:22:53):
Okay. And do you recall acknowledging to the police at that time that you were aware of that by saying, "Yep."
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:02):
I don't recall that, but if you say I did, I did.
David Clifton (02:23:06):
And do you recall inquiring about the wellbeing of Sophie at that time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:09):
Yes, I do recall that.
David Clifton (02:23:11):
Do you recall what specifically you asked relative to Sophie?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:14):
I said, "Is Sophie dead?"
David Clifton (02:23:16):
Okay. And after asking that question, did you repeat it two more times?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:20):
Yes, I did.
David Clifton (02:23:22):
And did the police eventually tell you that she was in fact dead?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:25):
Yes, they did.
David Clifton (02:23:27):
And did they inform you that they wanted to speak with your son about it?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:31):
Yes, they did.
David Clifton (02:23:32):
What was your emotional state at this point?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:36):
It was like I had been sucker punched.
David Clifton (02:23:41):
Because this is somebody that you knew, right? You just found out someone you knew was dead?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:46):
Yes, and I loved her, so yes.
David Clifton (02:23:52):
And did it concern you that the Connecticut State Police were looking to speak to your son about her death?
Kerri Ouellette (02:23:57):
Of course it did.
David Clifton (02:23:59):
And were you feeling stressed at that time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:03):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:24:04):
Were you scared?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:06):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:24:07):
Were you angry?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:09):
No.
David Clifton (02:24:10):
Were you worried?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:12):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:24:15):
Do you remember who you spoke with first?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:20):
Meaning like, police?
David Clifton (02:24:23):
Yes.
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:23):
To be honest, I don't. It was a blur and they probably introduced themselves, but I don't recall.
David Clifton (02:24:34):
Okay. And after being informed about Sophie being deceased, did you ask the police how she died?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:46):
Not immediately.
David Clifton (02:24:48):
You at some point went in to wake up your son, Cooper Ouellette, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:52):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:24:52):
Was it before or after that?
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:55):
That I asked the question?
David Clifton (02:24:56):
That you asked the question how she died.
Kerri Ouellette (02:24:58):
It was after I'd already woken up Cooper.
David Clifton (02:25:14):
Okay. And do you specifically recall asking how Sophie died and being told that the police were told she fell out of a car, out of a truck?
Kerri Ouellette (02:25:25):
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
David Clifton (02:25:26):
Sure. Do you recall being told by the police after you asked that question that she had fallen out of a truck? That's all the information they had.
Kerri Ouellette (02:25:34):
I don't recall that that's what they specifically said, no.
David Clifton (02:25:38):
And that question occurred before you went to wake up your son, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:25:42):
I'm sorry, repeat that.
David Clifton (02:25:44):
The question about how Sophie died and them telling you about the fall out of the truck happened before you went inside to speak with your son.
Kerri Ouellette (02:25:52):
I don't recall that, no. But if you say it happened, it did. Like I said, it was a blur.
David Clifton (02:26:00):
And when you went inside to wake up your son, you told him the police were there, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:03):
I did.
David Clifton (02:26:04):
And you told him that they wanted to speak with him about Sophie, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:06):
I did.
David Clifton (02:26:08):
And did you come back outside after speaking with your son?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:13):
I went and got the police. I went back downstairs.
David Clifton (02:26:16):
You went back outside, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:18):
I think they were at the door. I went back down. I opened up the door, I believe.
David Clifton (02:26:21):
Do you recall being outside in the driveway speaking with officers after waking up your son?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:28):
Possibly. I mean, there were so many people there at that point, so possibly, yes.
David Clifton (02:26:32):
When did you review your body cam footage of that interaction with the police?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:37):
Every time I turn on Facebook.
David Clifton (02:26:39):
So recently?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:41):
Yeah.
David Clifton (02:26:41):
Yesterday?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:42):
Sure.
David Clifton (02:26:43):
Do you recall reviewing that 15-minute body cam footage before you invited the police into your home?
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:49):
No, they never showed me the body cam when they were in my house.
David Clifton (02:26:52):
You just said you reviewed it.
Kerri Ouellette (02:26:53):
No, I saw it on the news yesterday or this weekend. I didn't review it with police officers or lawyers, no.
David Clifton (02:26:59):
I'm sorry, maybe I'm asking my question incorrectly.
Kerri Ouellette (02:27:01):
I think I'm not understanding you.
David Clifton (02:27:03):
Did you review the body cam footage prior to you inviting the police into your home, that 15-minute inquiry before you invited them into your home?
Kerri Ouellette (02:27:10):
No, I've never seen that. No.
David Clifton (02:27:17):
Okay. And do you recall speaking with detectives before inviting them into the home after waking Cooper Ouellette up?
Kerri Ouellette (02:27:25):
Yeah, I think we were waiting for Cooper to come down, so we were speaking, yes.
David Clifton (02:27:31):
Specifically, do you remember... Well, withdrawn. May 21st of 2023 was a stressful day for you, wasn't it?
Kerri Ouellette (02:27:52):
Yes, it was.
David Clifton (02:27:53):
And did you seek support from your friends?
Kerri Ouellette (02:28:00):
I had people stopping by the house, so yes.
David Clifton (02:28:05):
Who stopped by to help you?
Kerri Ouellette (02:28:10):
I believe one of the individuals was Audra Cables. I don't necessarily know that I recall anyone else specifically right now, but Audra stopped by.
David Clifton (02:28:19):
Did you also invite people to support your son, Cooper Ouellette, that day?
Kerri Ouellette (02:28:25):
Audra's son, Colby, had asked if they could come down, so I told Audra that they could, but they weren't to discuss the incident. So yes, they were allowed to come down that afternoon after the police had left.
David Clifton (02:28:40):
And did more people come to your house than just her son?
Kerri Ouellette (02:28:43):
Oh, yes.
David Clifton (02:28:44):
And did you speak with them before they came in the house?
Kerri Ouellette (02:28:48):
I spoke with everybody before they came in the house.
David Clifton (02:28:51):
And when you were speaking to them and when you were asking them to support your son, were you still feeling under stress due to everything that was going on that day?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:03):
I still feel stressed today about that day, so yes.
David Clifton (02:29:06):
So specifically on May 21st-
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:08):
Absolutely.
David Clifton (02:29:09):
You were upset at that time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:09):
Yes. Yes.
David Clifton (02:29:13):
And did you specifically tell them not to talk about Sophie's death?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:16):
I specifically said not to talk about Sophie's death.
David Clifton (02:29:19):
And did you specifically tell them it was not Cooper's fault?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:23):
Probably. I think probably. I don't recall that, but sure, if you say I did.
David Clifton (02:29:28):
And did you tell them specifically just to be there for Cooper?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:31):
Yes, I did.
David Clifton (02:29:34):
Now, you first learned about this incident shortly after midnight on May 21st, 2023, isn't that correct?
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:40):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:29:41):
In fact, your son called you on his ride home, didn't he?
Jon Raad (02:29:45):
Your Honor, I'm going to object. This is leading.
David Clifton (02:29:48):
Preliminary.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:51):
I'll overrule it, but borderlines.
David Clifton (02:29:53):
Yes, your honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:54):
Leading.
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:58):
Do you want me to answer?
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:59):
No.
Kerri Ouellette (02:29:59):
Oh.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:59):
Yes, answer. I apologize.
Kerri Ouellette (02:30:01):
Oh, sorry. Okay. So I was trying to reach Cooper and he was calling me, so yes, I think ultimately, he called me and that's how we connected, but I was trying to reach him.
David Clifton (02:30:13):
Can we bring up State's Exhibit 77, please? And if we go to call 30. You see that on the screen there, call 30, where it says direction outgoing May 21st, 2023, 12:14 AM?
Kerri Ouellette (02:30:41):
I do.
David Clifton (02:30:42):
How long did that call last?
Kerri Ouellette (02:30:46):
It lasted six minutes. We talked the whole ride home.
David Clifton (02:30:50):
And the call right before that, that was to Sophie, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:30:58):
I'm sorry. Is this my phone record or his?
David Clifton (02:31:00):
This is your son's phone.
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:02):
Oh, yes, it does say Sophie.
David Clifton (02:31:03):
And the call before that shows an incoming call from Christos Scergos at 11:51, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:09):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:31:10):
Call before that, also Christos Scergos.
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:13):
Yep.
David Clifton (02:31:14):
Call before that, Colby Cables.
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:16):
Okay.
David Clifton (02:31:16):
Call before that, Saavos Scergos. Keep going up, please. Here, we have a call from you, sorry, to you at 10: 33.
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:31):
Yes, we spoke at 10:33.
David Clifton (02:31:33):
But you said you were trying to call him.
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:34):
I was trying to call him.
David Clifton (02:31:34):
At what point did you call him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:36):
I'm sorry?
David Clifton (02:31:37):
At what point did you call him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:38):
When he was late for his curfew.
David Clifton (02:31:40):
What's his curfew?
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:41):
It's normally 11:00 and at 10:30, he had called to ask if he could stay out late, so I extended it to 12:00.
David Clifton (02:31:49):
So at some point after 12:00 you called him?
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:51):
I was attempting to reach him at 12:00 because he still wasn't home. Yes.
David Clifton (02:31:55):
Did you see any call from you to [inaudible 02:31:57]-
Kerri Ouellette (02:31:56):
No, I do not.
David Clifton (02:31:57):
... during that timeframe?
Jon Raad (02:31:58):
Your Honor, I'm going to object to allow the witness to answer the question.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:32:01):
Let her answer the question.
David Clifton (02:32:03):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:32:03):
Okay? That's sustained.
David Clifton (02:32:04):
Did you see any call between of you calling him between 12:00 and when he called you at 12:14?
Kerri Ouellette (02:32:10):
Nope.
David Clifton (02:32:11):
But your memory is that you were calling him at that time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:32:14):
My memory is what was happening. I was calling him.
David Clifton (02:32:20):
Okay. What were you talking with him about for 6 minutes and 34 seconds?
Kerri Ouellette (02:32:25):
When I answered, I immediately started yelling at him for being late for curfew to which he said, " Mom, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. I have to tell you what happened."
David Clifton (02:32:32):
Okay. And without telling me what specifically he was telling you, was he speaking about what happened with Sophie that night?
Kerri Ouellette (02:32:39):
Yes, he was.
David Clifton (02:32:42):
And do you recall when Cooper Ouellette got home that night?
Kerri Ouellette (02:32:47):
We talked until he pulled into the driveway, so 6 minutes and 34 seconds after that call was made.
David Clifton (02:32:54):
Do you recall him arriving home at 12:24 that morning?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:00):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:33:00):
So that's about four minutes after that call, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:07):
Sure, yes. Mm-hmm.
David Clifton (02:33:07):
And did you stay up to continue speaking with Cooper about what had happened?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:11):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:33:16):
And as you were talking with Cooper, Lynne called Cooper from the hospital, is that correct?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:22):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:33:23):
And were you listening to that phone call?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:25):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:33:27):
And you heard what Cooper was saying?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:28):
Yes, and Lynne.
David Clifton (02:33:30):
Okay. So was it on speakerphone?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:31):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:33:36):
And do you recall... Well, withdrawn. How long were you speaking with Cooper before that phone call came in from Lynne?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:48):
I don't recall that. I'm sorry.
David Clifton (02:33:50):
Were you asking him for details of that, of what happened?
Kerri Ouellette (02:33:53):
I was trying to calm him down. He was very upset, and he had told me on the way home what had happened, and so I was just trying to calm him down, and then Lynne called, and then from there, we continued to talk, but I don't remember the exact conversation, if we're being honest. I'm sorry, I don't recall that.
David Clifton (02:34:16):
Sure. I'm not asking you to remember specific words verbatim, but were you discussing the incidents of that night?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:23):
Well, yes.
David Clifton (02:34:23):
And were you asking for information?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:25):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:34:26):
And he was giving you the information?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:29):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:34:39):
And do you recall, at any point during the either night of May 20th or early morning hours of May 21st, did you personally speak with Lynne?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:51):
No, I did not.
David Clifton (02:34:52):
Did you personally speak with Scott?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:54):
No.
David Clifton (02:34:55):
Did you speak with Jackson?
Kerri Ouellette (02:34:57):
No.
Jon Raad (02:34:59):
Your Honor, I'm going to object again. This form of questioning is leading.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:35:01):
That calls for yes or no. It's overruled.
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:04):
No.
David Clifton (02:35:05):
Did you speak with Layla Fine?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:07):
No.
David Clifton (02:35:13):
So the only information that you got about the details of that night were from your son, Cooper?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:18):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:35:21):
And do you recall specifically telling the police while you were speaking with him that Sophie was talking when she went into the house?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:29):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:35:31):
And that's because Cooper told you that, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:35):
Yes. I wasn't there, so yes.
David Clifton (02:35:40):
And do you recall specifically telling the police that Sophie walked into the house?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:45):
I do believe I said that, yes.
David Clifton (02:35:47):
And that's because that's what Cooper told you that night, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:50):
That's what I heard him say or believed he said.
David Clifton (02:35:54):
In fact, as you sit here today, you know that Sophie did not walk into the house that night, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:35:58):
Yes, I do.
David Clifton (02:36:10):
You also checked your son, Cooper Ouellette's Life360 data, didn't you?
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:14):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:36:16):
And you saw that he was doing laps around Fieldview, isn't that correct?
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:21):
No, I didn't check it until he was actually already probably in our driveway. I didn't see the laps at that time.
David Clifton (02:36:28):
You at some point on May 21st checked his Life360 bullets, didn't you?
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:33):
I check his Life360 multiple times a day, so yes.
David Clifton (02:36:36):
And you confronted him about his route to get to Sophie's?
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:40):
I did.
David Clifton (02:36:43):
And he told you that that was after he dropped Sophie off, isn't that correct?
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:50):
I'm sorry. Are we still talking about the laps in the cul-de-sac?
David Clifton (02:36:52):
Yes.
Kerri Ouellette (02:36:53):
Okay. I'm not sure I recall that. I'm sorry.
David Clifton (02:37:00):
As you sit here today, do you recall him saying that that was before or after he dropped Sophie off?
Kerri Ouellette (02:37:07):
I'm not sure I recall that.
David Clifton (02:37:20):
Okay. So you had previously testified that you're aware that Sophie did not walk into the home that night, so is it fair to say that Cooper lied to you that night?
Kerri Ouellette (02:37:30):
It would be fair to say that I potentially didn't understand what had happened because between him being upset and Lynne calling and just trying to process the information, I didn't interpret it properly.
David Clifton (02:37:41):
You told the police what Cooper told you.
Kerri Ouellette (02:37:44):
Okay.
David Clifton (02:37:45):
And you know that that's not what happened?
Jon Raad (02:37:50):
I'm going to object, Your Honor. It's leading. This isn't cross-examination.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:37:51):
That's leading. Rephrase it.
David Clifton (02:37:53):
I'll rephrase. So you told the police what Cooper told you, and you know that to be untrue at this time?
Kerri Ouellette (02:38:05):
Yes.
David Clifton (02:38:05):
I have nothing further, Judge.
Jon Raad (02:38:10):
Can I have one moment?
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:38:10):
Take your time.
Jon Raad (02:38:11):
Good afternoon, Kerri.
Kerri Ouellette (02:38:11):
Hey.
Jon Raad (02:38:48):
Isn't it true that Cooper learned that Sophie passed away from the state police and not you?
Kerri Ouellette (02:38:52):
I did not share that information with Cooper. The state police did.
Jon Raad (02:38:56):
Okay. When the state police showed up to your house, you talked to them in the driveway, right?
Kerri Ouellette (02:39:01):
Yes.
Jon Raad (02:39:02):
And then at some point, you went inside to get your son, correct?
Kerri Ouellette (02:39:05):
Yes.
Jon Raad (02:39:06):
How long would you say you were inside for before he came down?
Kerri Ouellette (02:39:10):
I don't know. I'd made a few phone calls. I called his dad. I called his dad's girlfriend because I couldn't reach his dad. I was pacing for a few minutes. I called my significant other and told him to come back, and I just didn't want to go in and wake him up, so I don't really know how long I was out there, but it was a few minutes.
Jon Raad (02:39:28):
Okay. And at any point in time, did you tell the police, "No, you can't come inside"? Let me rephrase. At any point, did you eventually allow them to come inside, the state police?
Kerri Ouellette (02:39:41):
Is the question, did I eventually allow them in?
Jon Raad (02:39:43):
Yeah.
Kerri Ouellette (02:39:44):
I did eventually allow them in, yes.
Jon Raad (02:39:46):
Okay. At some point in time, did you and Cooper go to a vigil for Sophie?
David Clifton (02:39:52):
Objection, beyond the scope.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:39:56):
[inaudible 02:39:57] relevance. That's sustained.
Jon Raad (02:39:58):
No further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:40:02):
Thank you, Ms. Ouellette.
Kerri Ouellette (02:40:02):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:40:02):
Any follow up?
David Clifton (02:40:02):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:40:04):
All right, Ms. Ouellette, you are all set. Be careful stepping down here. And relative to Ms. Ouellette's [inaudible 02:40:11].
David Clifton (02:40:14):
I though we'd take that up outside the presence.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:40:16):
Okay. At this point?
David Clifton (02:40:20):
Seems a good time.
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:40:24):
All right. I'm going to have you step out for a few moments, okay, ladies and gentlemen? Good afternoon, everybody. First, I'm going to bring the jury in and then I'll have Ms. Ouellette come back, okay? We ready for the jury? Have seat, ladies and gentlemen.
David Clifton (02:49:13):
Yes, Your Honor.
Jon Raad (02:49:13):
Your Honor, may we approach?
Judge Chris Pelosi (02:49:21):
Yes. Wait till... Well, [inaudible 02:49:27].
Speaker 3 (02:50:20):
All right. You guys can remain standing. Do the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
Speaker 4 (02:50:25):
Yes, Your Honor.
Speaker 5 (02:50:25):
Yes, Your Honor.
Speaker 3 (02:50:27):
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are on schedule, quite honestly, a little ahead of schedule. Our next witness won't be here until two o'clock, so you're going to get an early lunch. We'll see you at two o'clock. Please don't discuss the case with anyone and or staff and you know the rules. I appreciate it. Enjoy your lunch, okay?
Speaker 6 (03:24:00):
(Silence).
Speaker 7 (03:58:00):
(silence)
Speaker 8 (04:51:06):
Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (04:51:08):
Good afternoon, everybody. Have a seat. All right, this is going to be an offer of proof and the court may rule that it may be admissible, it may not be admissible, but based on the nature and the testimony that the court anticipates to hear, we're going to mute everything and not record this.
Speaker 8 (04:59:19):
Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (04:59:21):
Good afternoon. All right, have a seat. To your right, I'll hear your objection.
Speaker 11 (04:59:25):
Sure, Your Honor. With regard to the first statement, the state...
Speaker 9 (05:03:14):
I just don't ask it. [inaudible 05:03:04]. Judge, may I just have a moment with the witness to-
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:03:16):
Take your time.
Speaker 9 (05:03:16):
... tell her the court's instruction?
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:04:40):
Yep. All right. Will parties stipulate their presence of the jury?
Speaker 9 (05:04:43):
Yes, Your Honor.
Speaker 11 (05:04:43):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:04:43):
Have a seat, ladies and gentlemen. Apologize for the delay. Appreciate it. So comfortable? All right. State?
Speaker 9 (05:04:55):
State will call Morgan Pease.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:00):
Okay. I'm going to swear you in.
Morgan Pease (05:05:27):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (05:05:28):
Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or solemnly sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or under penalty or perjury?
Morgan Pease (05:05:38):
I do.
Speaker 10 (05:05:39):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Morgan Pease (05:05:41):
Morgan Pease, P-E-A-S-E.
Speaker 10 (05:05:43):
And please state your town of residence.
Morgan Pease (05:05:44):
[inaudible 05:05:45]
Speaker 10 (05:05:45):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:46):
All right. Thank you, Ms. Pease.
Morgan Pease (05:05:48):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:48):
State?
Speaker 9 (05:05:49):
Thank you, Your honor. Good afternoon, Ms. Pease. Did you complete your high school degree?
Morgan Pease (05:05:54):
I did.
Speaker 9 (05:05:55):
And where did you graduate from?
Morgan Pease (05:05:56):
Lewis Mills High School.
Speaker 9 (05:05:58):
When was that?
Morgan Pease (05:05:59):
2023.
Speaker 9 (05:06:00):
And are you in school now?
Morgan Pease (05:06:02):
Yes.
Speaker 9 (05:06:02):
What are you studying?
Morgan Pease (05:06:03):
Nursing-
David Clifton (05:06:00):
And are you in school now?
Courtney Pease (05:06:02):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:02):
What are you studying?
Courtney Pease (05:06:03):
Nursing.
David Clifton (05:06:05):
And when will you complete your schooling for nursing?
Courtney Pease (05:06:07):
May of 2028.
David Clifton (05:06:09):
And do you currently live in Connecticut?
Courtney Pease (05:06:12):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:12):
Who do you live with?
Courtney Pease (05:06:13):
My boyfriend Charles and his dad.
David Clifton (05:06:16):
And what is Charles' last name?
Courtney Pease (05:06:18):
McIntyre.
David Clifton (05:06:20):
And were you dating Charles McIntyre back in May of 2023?
Courtney Pease (05:06:24):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:24):
And if we could publish State's Exhibit 1, please.
Speaker X (05:06:30):
[inaudible 05:06:31].
David Clifton (05:06:36):
Do you recognize the name being displayed?
Courtney Pease (05:06:38):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:39):
For the remainder of your testimony, I'm going to refer to her as Sophie and I'll ask you to do the same, okay?
Courtney Pease (05:06:42):
Okay.
David Clifton (05:06:46):
How long have you known Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:06:48):
Approximately four years.
David Clifton (05:06:50):
And in May of 2023, were you friends?
Courtney Pease (05:06:52):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:54):
At the time that you knew Sophie, was she dating anyone?
Courtney Pease (05:06:57):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:06:57):
Who was that?
Courtney Pease (05:06:58):
Cooper Ouellette.
David Clifton (05:07:00):
And did you and your boyfriend Charles McIntyre hang out with Sophie and Cooper often?
Courtney Pease (05:07:05):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:07:05):
About how often?
Courtney Pease (05:07:08):
Almost every weekend, every other weekend.
David Clifton (05:07:11):
And do you recognize the person that you know as Cooper Ouellette in the courtroom today?
Courtney Pease (05:07:15):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:07:16):
And would you please point him out and identify a piece of clothing he's wearing for the record?
Courtney Pease (05:07:19):
A blue suit.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:07:21):
Record reflect the in-court identification.
David Clifton (05:07:26):
Okay. Thank you. Turning your attention to May 20th, 2023, how old were you?
Courtney Pease (05:07:29):
18.
David Clifton (05:07:31):
And were you still with your boyfriend, Charles McIntyre?
(05:07:33)
Yes.
Courtney Pease (05:07:34):
And did Charles go by a nickname?
(05:07:36)
Yes.
David Clifton (05:07:37):
What was that?
Courtney Pease (05:07:37):
CJ.
David Clifton (05:07:39):
And what did you... I'm sorry. Were you with CJ on the evening of May 20th, 2023?
Courtney Pease (05:07:49):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:07:49):
What were you doing?
Courtney Pease (05:07:49):
We went to prom.
David Clifton (05:07:49):
And did you have any plans for a post-prom party?
Courtney Pease (05:07:53):
To go where Sophie was.
David Clifton (05:07:55):
Okay. Did you get invited to a location that Sophie was?
Courtney Pease (05:08:01):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:02):
And who invited you?
Courtney Pease (05:08:03):
Sophie.
David Clifton (05:08:04):
And where were you going?
Courtney Pease (05:08:05):
The Schultz Corporation shop.
David Clifton (05:08:13):
Did you go to the Schultz Corporation that night?
Courtney Pease (05:08:15):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:15):
Who did you go with?
Courtney Pease (05:08:16):
CJ, Lexi, and Devon.
David Clifton (05:08:19):
Who's Lexi?
Courtney Pease (05:08:21):
One of my best friends.
David Clifton (05:08:22):
What's her full name?
Courtney Pease (05:08:23):
Alexis Kiliani.
David Clifton (05:08:25):
And who's Devon?
Courtney Pease (05:08:26):
Devon Kroll, Lexi's boyfriend at the time.
David Clifton (05:08:29):
And were they also at the prom with you?
Courtney Pease (05:08:30):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:34):
Do you recall around what time you got to the Schultz Corporation?
Courtney Pease (05:08:38):
Maybe 9:00.
David Clifton (05:08:40):
And when you arrived there, were people already there?
Courtney Pease (05:08:42):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:44):
And when you got there, were people drinking alcohol?
Courtney Pease (05:08:50):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:51):
Were you drinking alcohol that night?
Courtney Pease (05:08:54):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:08:54):
What were you drinking?
Courtney Pease (05:08:54):
Wine.
David Clifton (05:08:54):
And about how much did you have?
Courtney Pease (05:08:56):
I don't know, maybe two or three drinks. I'm not sure.
David Clifton (05:09:00):
Did you see Cooper Ouellette drinking alcohol that night?
Courtney Pease (05:09:03):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:09:07):
What did you see Cooper Ouellette drinking?
Courtney Pease (05:09:07):
I don't remember what it was. Maybe beer.
David Clifton (05:09:11):
And did you see Cooper Ouellette retrieving alcohol from anywhere?
Courtney Pease (05:09:14):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:09:15):
What did you see?
Courtney Pease (05:09:16):
YETI cooler.
David Clifton (05:09:17):
And was that in the building or somewhere else?
Courtney Pease (05:09:21):
In the building.
David Clifton (05:09:26):
And at some point in the night while you were there, did you observe anyone take Cooper Ouellette's keys?
Courtney Pease (05:09:35):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:09:36):
And do you recall who that was?
Courtney Pease (05:09:37):
No.
David Clifton (05:09:48):
I want to turn your attention to later on in the night, did there come a time where you and Sophie were speaking in the Schultz Corporation?
Courtney Pease (05:09:57):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:09:58):
And did Cooper Ouellette come and speak with you as well?
Courtney Pease (05:10:01):
No.
David Clifton (05:10:01):
Okay. Did Cooper letter come to speak with Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:10:06):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:10:07):
How did that happen?
Courtney Pease (05:10:09):
He just came up to her.
David Clifton (05:10:12):
Okay. And did he stay there and speak with her in your presence or did they go somewhere else or something?
Courtney Pease (05:10:16):
They were all over inside, outside.
David Clifton (05:10:20):
Okay. And did they then go to another room and have an argument?
Courtney Pease (05:10:23):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:10:24):
And I want to-
Jon Raad (05:10:26):
I'm going to object, Your Honor. Two objections. He's leading the witness, and I believe he's going down the path that we just dealt with.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:10:34):
First part is leading and sustained, but the other part is overruled.
David Clifton (05:10:38):
And I'm leading the witness to not go down that route, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:10:41):
Okay.
David Clifton (05:10:44):
Specifically as it relates to that timeframe, did you hear anything the defendant Cooper Ouellette said?
Courtney Pease (05:10:50):
No.
David Clifton (05:10:52):
Do you recall whether Cooper Ouellette was speaking with an elevated voice?
Courtney Pease (05:10:56):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:11:02):
And shortly after that elevated conversation occurred, did Sophie and Cooper leave?
Courtney Pease (05:11:09):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:11:09):
And did they leave together?
Courtney Pease (05:11:12):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:11:18):
Did you leave... Well, did you eventually leave the Schultz Corporation?
Courtney Pease (05:11:20):
I did, yes.
David Clifton (05:11:21):
And do you recall around when that was?
Courtney Pease (05:11:24):
11:30 maybe, 11:00. I'm not sure.
David Clifton (05:11:28):
Was it before or after Sophie and Cooper left?
Courtney Pease (05:11:30):
After.
David Clifton (05:11:32):
And about how long had passed?
Courtney Pease (05:11:34):
10 minutes maybe.
David Clifton (05:11:38):
And the entire time that you were at the Schultz Corporation, did you see any injuries to Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:11:43):
I didn't see it myself, no.
David Clifton (05:11:45):
And did you see any injuries to Sophie's face before you left the Schultz Corporation?
Courtney Pease (05:11:50):
No.
David Clifton (05:11:53):
Did you see Sophie with a bloody nose at the Schultz Corporation?
Courtney Pease (05:11:57):
No.
David Clifton (05:11:57):
Who did you leave the Schultz Corporation with?
Courtney Pease (05:12:03):
CJ, Alexis, and Devon.
David Clifton (05:12:05):
Who was driving?
Courtney Pease (05:12:12):
Devon.
David Clifton (05:12:13):
And while Devon was driving you, did you have any communication with Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:12:17):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:12:18):
And what specifically do you recall communicating with Sophie about?
Courtney Pease (05:12:23):
She sent me a Snapchat.
David Clifton (05:12:25):
And what was that Snapchat of?
Courtney Pease (05:12:28):
Her nose bleeding.
David Clifton (05:12:30):
And if we could publish State's Exhibit 11.
Speaker X (05:12:30):
You said 11.
David Clifton (05:12:37):
Is this the photo that Sophie sent you?
Courtney Pease (05:12:38):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:12:40):
And do you recall around what time you received that photo through Snap?
Courtney Pease (05:12:45):
11:40, I think it was.
David Clifton (05:12:50):
Did you have any communication with Sophie after receiving the Snap message?
Courtney Pease (05:12:54):
I asked her if she was okay.
David Clifton (05:12:56):
Did she respond?
Courtney Pease (05:12:57):
No.
David Clifton (05:13:01):
When you received that Snap message, did you show it to anyone else in the car?
Courtney Pease (05:13:05):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:13:06):
Who did you show it to?
Courtney Pease (05:13:07):
Lexi, Devon, and CJ.
David Clifton (05:13:09):
And were you discussing it?
Courtney Pease (05:13:11):
Yeah.
David Clifton (05:13:11):
Tell me what was said.
Courtney Pease (05:13:12):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:13:13):
Were you discussing that? The next morning, did you learn that Sophie had passed away?
Courtney Pease (05:13:18):
I did.
David Clifton (05:13:19):
How did you learn that?
Courtney Pease (05:13:21):
Missed phone calls from friends.
David Clifton (05:13:25):
And the next day on May 21st of 2023, did you speak with the defendant, Cooper Ouellette?
Courtney Pease (05:13:30):
I did.
David Clifton (05:13:31):
How did that come about?
Courtney Pease (05:13:32):
A couple of people went to his house to see what was going on.
David Clifton (05:13:41):
And do you recall around when you got to Cooper Ouellette's house?
Courtney Pease (05:13:46):
I don't know the exact time, but late afternoon, evening.
David Clifton (05:13:54):
Okay. Can I have a moment, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:13:55):
Take your time.
David Clifton (05:14:14):
Can you bring up Exhibit 79 to publish? And if you scroll down all the way to the bottom. I'm sorry. Go up to the page 70. All right.
(05:14:34)
So just take a look at that message from CJ McIntyre to Cooper. Do you see what time that message was sent?
Courtney Pease (05:14:44):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:14:45):
And then Cooper's response is in green, inviting you guys to come over. See what time that was?
Courtney Pease (05:14:52):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:14:54):
And please scroll down one more message.
(05:14:57)
CJ responding that they'll be there soon. Is that when you went over?
Courtney Pease (05:15:01):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:15:01):
And that's at about 5:30?
Courtney Pease (05:15:03):
Mm-hmm.
David Clifton (05:15:05):
Okay. Is that about when you remember going over there?
Courtney Pease (05:15:07):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:15:09):
When you got to Cooper Ouellette's house, who, if anyone, did you meet?
Courtney Pease (05:15:14):
Cooper's mom.
David Clifton (05:15:18):
Okay. And did you know Cooper's mom prior to that day?
Courtney Pease (05:15:21):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:15:22):
And had you interacted with her before?
Courtney Pease (05:15:24):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:15:25):
And when you got there, did she say anything which stuck out in your mind?
Courtney Pease (05:15:30):
"Don't ask any questions." We weren't allowed to ask any questions.
David Clifton (05:15:34):
And what was the tone of her voice when she was telling you that?
Courtney Pease (05:15:40):
Stern. I don't really know.
David Clifton (05:15:42):
How did it make you feel?
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:15:42):
I'm sorry, I didn't hear. Stern and-
Courtney Pease (05:15:43):
Stern. I'm not really sure exactly how.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:15:46):
Thank you.
David Clifton (05:15:47):
How did it make you feel when you heard that warning?
Courtney Pease (05:15:50):
It made me feel like... I don't really know exactly how it made me feel, but I was questioning why. I felt like as her friends, as friends, we should know what was going on and we should be able to ask questions.
David Clifton (05:16:03):
Okay. And did you eventually go into the house and see Cooper Ouellette?
Courtney Pease (05:16:08):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:16:09):
And I'm sorry, did Carrie Ouellette tell you not to talk about the incident?
Courtney Pease (05:16:15):
She just said don't ask any questions about it.
David Clifton (05:16:20):
Okay. And when you got in, did you begin speaking with Cooper Ouellette?
Courtney Pease (05:16:24):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:16:25):
And were you alone? Were there other people there or something?
Courtney Pease (05:16:27):
There was other people there.
David Clifton (05:16:28):
And was it a group discussion or was it kind of talking?
Courtney Pease (05:16:32):
A group discussion, I'd say.
David Clifton (05:16:34):
At some point in the night, did somebody bring up Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:16:37):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:16:38):
Do you recall who that was?
Courtney Pease (05:16:39):
No.
David Clifton (05:16:42):
Did that person ask Cooper what happened to Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:16:47):
I'm not sure. I think so.
David Clifton (05:16:50):
Did Cooper Ouellette respond to that person with what happened to Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:16:53):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:16:53):
What do you recall Cooper Ouellette telling you?
Courtney Pease (05:16:57):
He said that Sophie needed to throw up, and as he was driving, she opened the door to throw up, and that's when she fell out.
David Clifton (05:17:04):
And did he tell you where that happened?
Courtney Pease (05:17:08):
Polly Dan.
David Clifton (05:17:10):
Did he also tell you that it happened on Sophie's Road?
Courtney Pease (05:17:14):
No, I don't think so.
David Clifton (05:17:17):
As you sit here today, do you recall specifically that he did not tell you it happened on Sophie's road, or do you not remember?
Courtney Pease (05:17:26):
I don't remember.
David Clifton (05:17:26):
Okay. Would looking at your statement help to refresh your recollection?
Courtney Pease (05:17:29):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:17:35):
Can I just have a moment, Judge.
(05:17:55)
Direct your attention here. Read it to yourself. See if that helps to refresh your recollection.
Courtney Pease (05:17:57):
Okay. Okay.
David Clifton (05:18:11):
And did that help to refresh your recollection?
Courtney Pease (05:18:13):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:18:13):
And do you recall Cooper telling you that it happened on Sophie's Road?
Courtney Pease (05:18:18):
No.
David Clifton (05:18:25):
No? Where did he tell you it happened?
Courtney Pease (05:18:26):
The road just before Sophie's Road, Polly Dan.
David Clifton (05:18:29):
Okay. Did he tell you specifically where on Polly Dan?
Courtney Pease (05:18:38):
There's a little dirt pull off.
David Clifton (05:18:41):
And is there any change in the declination of that area?
Courtney Pease (05:18:49):
I'm not sure.
David Clifton (05:18:50):
Does that road dip down?
Courtney Pease (05:18:52):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:18:52):
In that area?
Courtney Pease (05:18:52):
I think.
David Clifton (05:18:54):
How did Cooper refer to it?
Courtney Pease (05:18:56):
It was the dirt pull off on the side of the road.
David Clifton (05:19:00):
And have you driven on Polly Dan?
Courtney Pease (05:19:04):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:19:04):
And are you familiar with that area?
Courtney Pease (05:19:06):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:19:08):
Bring up State's Exhibit 2.
(05:19:08)
I'm showing you State's Exhibit 2, there's a mouse there. Is it active? Use that mouse and show the jury where you know the dip to be.
Courtney Pease (05:19:33):
Right here, I believe.
David Clifton (05:19:36):
May the record reflect that she is pointing to a down notch on Polly Dan Road between Fieldview and Johnnycake Mountain.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:19:43):
The record will reflect that.
David Clifton (05:19:52):
After Cooper told you that she had fallen out, what did he say he did?
Courtney Pease (05:19:58):
He got out to make sure she was okay.
David Clifton (05:20:01):
And what did he say happened next?
Courtney Pease (05:20:05):
He said that she said she was okay, and he put her back in the truck.
David Clifton (05:20:09):
And then where did he take her?
Courtney Pease (05:20:11):
Home.
David Clifton (05:20:31):
And during this conversation at Cooper Ouellette's house, how was he acting?
Courtney Pease (05:20:37):
Upset. I'm not really sure his exact emotions, but he was just quiet.
David Clifton (05:20:45):
And did his demeanor in any way change between when you were talking about before the incident with Sophie and when he was talking about Sophie?
Courtney Pease (05:20:53):
Yeah, kind of talking faster.
David Clifton (05:20:57):
I'm sorry?
Courtney Pease (05:20:58):
He was talking a little faster.
David Clifton (05:21:01):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:21:01):
At what point?
Courtney Pease (05:21:02):
When he was talking about what happened.
David Clifton (05:21:08):
Okay. And did there come a time you sat down with the police to tell the police everything you knew about the case?
Courtney Pease (05:21:13):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:14):
And did you give a formalized written statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:16):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:17):
When you were speaking with the police, were you giving them all the information that you had available to you at the time?
Courtney Pease (05:21:21):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:22):
And were you being open and honest during that statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:25):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:25):
Did you withhold any information purposely?
Courtney Pease (05:21:28):
No.
David Clifton (05:21:29):
Did you tell them everything that you remembered at the time?
Courtney Pease (05:21:31):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:32):
And was that reduced to writing in terms of a formal written statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:38):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:38):
Were you able to review that statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:40):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:41):
And were you then asked to sign that statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:43):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:44):
And when you signed it, were you attesting to the truth of that statement?
Courtney Pease (05:21:47):
Yes.
David Clifton (05:21:50):
If I could have a moment, Judge. Nothing further, Judge. Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:10):
Thank you.
Jon Raad (05:22:10):
Ms. Pease, just two questions.
David Clifton (05:22:10):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:22:15):
As you sit here today, are you aware that Sophie separated from the truck twice?
Courtney Pease (05:22:19):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:22:20):
The one on Polly Dan and one on Fieldview?
David Clifton (05:22:24):
Objection, misstates the evidence.
Courtney Pease (05:22:26):
No.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:28):
Hang on. Strike that answer. That's sustained.
Jon Raad (05:22:32):
Are you aware that Sophie separated from the truck twice?
Courtney Pease (05:22:36):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:22:36):
Okay. And you just testified that Cooper was sad?
Courtney Pease (05:22:40):
Right.
Jon Raad (05:22:47):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:47):
Anything else?
David Clifton (05:22:47):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:48):
Thank you. All right, Ms. Pease. Thank you very much.
Courtney Pease (05:22:49):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:52):
Just don't discuss your testimony, okay?
Courtney Pease (05:22:53):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:54):
I appreciate that, or let anybody discuss it. Thank you.
Courtney Pease (05:22:55):
Okay. Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:22:55):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:23:14):
The state will call Savvas Stergos. As Mr. Stergos makes his eventual way to the stand, Your Honor, there is an item of evidence that is on a thumb drive. We've had that item obviously disclosed to defense counsel, and I believe there's no disagreement as it coming into evidence as full.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:23:46):
Thank you.
Christian Watson (05:23:46):
Is that correct?
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:23:46):
Is that true?
Jon Raad (05:23:48):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:23:49):
All right.
Speaker X (05:23:49):
May I, Your Honor?
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:24:10):
You may. Okay, Mr. Stergos. Face the clerk and raise your right hand, okay?
Clerk (05:24:23):
Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or find penalty of perjury?
Savvas Stergos (05:24:31):
Yes.
Clerk (05:24:32):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Savvas Stergos (05:24:34):
Savvas Stergos, S-T-E-R-G-O-S.
Clerk (05:24:36):
And please say your town of residence.
Savvas Stergos (05:24:37):
[inaudible 05:24:38].
Clerk (05:24:38):
Thank you.
Christian Watson (05:24:41):
Good afternoon.
Savvas Stergos (05:24:43):
How's it going?
Christian Watson (05:24:44):
Good. You just coming back from work?
Savvas Stergos (05:24:46):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:24:47):
Okay. Did you complete your high school degree?
Savvas Stergos (05:24:49):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:24:49):
All right. I'm going to ask you to slide forward, Savvas, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:24:52):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:24:53):
That microphone doesn't project your voice, it just records it, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:24:56):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:24:58):
And when you give an answer, it has to be a yes or a no, not a yep, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:01):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:25:04):
When you completed your high school degree, where'd you graduate from?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:07):
Lewis Mills.
Christian Watson (05:25:08):
And in what year was that?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:09):
2022.
Christian Watson (05:25:10):
And are you currently working?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:12):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:13):
And what do you do for a living?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:14):
Power lines. Build power lines.
Christian Watson (05:25:16):
What do you do with power lines?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:18):
Replace poles, fix broken stuff, storm fixes, whatnot.
Christian Watson (05:25:24):
And how long have you been doing that?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:25):
Three years.
Christian Watson (05:25:26):
And did you obtain training in order to be certified to do that?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:29):
Kind of. I'm still in training, but yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:32):
Okay. And will you eventually be certified?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:33):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:34):
And you plan on doing that for a full-time living?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:36):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:37):
And do you currently live in Connecticut now?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:39):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:39):
And who do you live with, sir?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:41):
My parents.
Christian Watson (05:25:42):
Okay. And do you have a twin brother?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:44):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:25:44):
And what is his name?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:46):
Christo Stergos.
Christian Watson (05:25:48):
Now, I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 1. It'll come up on this big screen over my left shoulder or up on the screen that's in front of you, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:25:56):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:25:56):
Are you familiar with the name that's written on that piece of paper?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:00):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:00):
And for the remainder of your testimony, I just ask if you have to refer to that person and you refer to them as Sophie, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:07):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:26:08):
How long had you known Sophie?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:11):
I'd say since eighth grade.
Christian Watson (05:26:13):
And were you friends?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:14):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:15):
And when you knew Sophie, was she in a dating relationship with anyone?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:18):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:18):
And who was she dating?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:19):
Cooper Ouellette.
Christian Watson (05:26:20):
And were you friends with Cooper Ouellette?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:22):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:23):
And how long had you known Cooper Ouellette?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:25):
Since middle school.
Christian Watson (05:26:27):
Okay. Did you become close friends with Cooper Ouellette at some point?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:30):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:31):
And when was that, sir?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:32):
Probably junior year of high school.
Christian Watson (05:26:35):
And from junior year on, would you regularly hang out with Cooper Ouellette?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:38):
Yeah.
Christian Watson (05:26:39):
And would your brother Christos hang out with you guys as well?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:42):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:43):
And did your brother Christos have a relationship with Cooper Ouellette?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:45):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:46):
And when you would hang out, would that be a weekly thing?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:49):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:51):
Now, I'm going to direct your attention to May 20th of 2023, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:54):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:55):
In May of 2023, were you dating anyone?
Savvas Stergos (05:26:58):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:26:59):
And who were you dating in May of 2023?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:02):
Alyssa Alexander.
Christian Watson (05:27:03):
And are you still in a relationship with Alyssa Alexander now?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:06):
No.
Christian Watson (05:27:07):
And in 2023, would you and Alyssa Alexander hang out with Cooper Ouellette and Sophie?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:12):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:14):
And on May 20th of 2023, did you go to a prom with Alyssa Alexander?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:18):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:20):
And where was that prom?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:22):
Harwinton at the golf course.
Christian Watson (05:27:23):
Okay. And after the prom, did you and Alyssa Alexander go to an after prom party?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:27):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:28):
And was that at someone's house?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:29):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:30):
And where was that after prom party?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:31):
It was in Burlington.
Christian Watson (05:27:33):
And when you were at the house in Burlington, did you have your cell phone with you?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:36):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:37):
And do you remember whether or not you had good cell phone service at that house?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:40):
I did not have good service.
Christian Watson (05:27:42):
And do you remember what your cell phone number was at that time?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:46):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:47):
Now, is that the same number you still have today?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:48):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:27:49):
Were you aware of a gathering that was taking place that night at Tyler Schultz's shop called the Schultz Corporation?
Savvas Stergos (05:27:57):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:27:59):
And did you know if your brother Christos was going to that gathering?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:02):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:03):
And do you know if Cooper let was going as well?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:05):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:07):
And did you go to the Schultz Corporation that evening of May 20th of 2023?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:11):
No.
Christian Watson (05:28:12):
Did you stay at that after prom party in Burlington instead?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:15):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:16):
And while you were at that after prom party in Burlington, did you receive a missed call from Cooper Ouellette?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:19):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:20):
And did you have Cooper Ouellette's cell phone number saved in your contacts?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:25):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:26):
And was those contacts on your cell phone?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:28):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:29):
And when you didn't answer the call from Cooper Ouellette, did he leave you a voicemail on your cell phone?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:34):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:35):
And do you remember the time that he left you that voicemail on May 20th of 2023?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:39):
Around 11 o'clock.
Christian Watson (05:28:46):
After you received that voicemail, did you eventually listen to it?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:50):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:51):
And when you met with the Connecticut State Police, did you provide them with a copy of the voicemail that he left you?
Savvas Stergos (05:28:57):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:28:59):
Now, prior to your testimony here today, did you have the opportunity to listen to that voicemail in my office?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:04):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:05):
And when you listened to that voicemail, was it on a thumb drive?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:08):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:08):
And did that thumb drive have a tag on it?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:10):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:11):
And was that voicemail the only file that was on that thumb drive?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:15):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:17):
And after you listened to that voicemail, were you asked to put your initials on the tag attached to the thumb drive?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:21):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:21):
Did you comply with that request?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:23):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:24):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 86. I'm going to ask you to take a moment and look at that thumb drive and the tag attached. Do you recognize that, sir?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:31):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:32):
And are your initials on that tag attached?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:34):
Yes, they are.
Christian Watson (05:29:35):
And is that the voicemail that you listened to on that thumb drive in my office?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:38):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:39):
Ask that it be marked as full.
Jon Raad (05:29:41):
No objection.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:29:42):
Full.
Christian Watson (05:29:45):
Now, before we play that voicemail, I'm going to ask you a few questions, okay?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:48):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:29:50):
Did Cooper Ouellette have a nickname that he called you at that time?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:52):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:53):
And what was that nickname?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:55):
Steve O.
Christian Watson (05:29:56):
Steve O?
Savvas Stergos (05:29:56):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:29:57):
And did he have a nickname for your brother, Christos?
Savvas Stergos (05:30:00):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:30:01):
And what was that nickname?
Savvas Stergos (05:30:02):
Urkel.
Christian Watson (05:30:03):
Urkel?
Savvas Stergos (05:30:03):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:30:04):
And when you listened to that voicemail, could you identify Cooper Ouellette's voice?
Savvas Stergos (05:30:08):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:30:09):
When you listened to that voicemail, could you identify your brother's voice in the background?
Savvas Stergos (05:30:14):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:30:18):
And with the court's permission, I'm going to ask that we publish, play that.
Audio: Cooper Ouellette (05:30:21):
Sure. [inaudible 05:30:21].
(05:30:21)
Steve O. It's me and Urkel. Urkel say hi.
Audio: Cristos Stergos (05:30:31):
Hey, hi [inaudible 05:30:32].
Audio: Cooper Ouellette (05:30:33):
Hey, me and Urkel are very drunk, very, very, very drunk. We need you to come pick up [inaudible 05:30:34]. Sophie, yeah, she stopped. She's mad at me and she don't want a ride home. Steve O, come pick me up. Yeah, we better friends. I think you and me go [inaudible 05:31:05].
Christian Watson (05:31:05):
Is that Cooper Ouellette's voice doing the majority of talking on that voicemail?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:07):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:12):
Now, the next morning of May 21st of 2023, did you learn that Sophie had passed away?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:21):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:22):
And that next day, on May 21st of 2023, after you found out she had passed away, did you meet up with anyone?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:29):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:31:29):
Who did you meet up with?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:30):
My friends and Cooper.
Christian Watson (05:31:31):
Okay. And did you go to Cooper Ouellette's house that day?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:36):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:37):
And when you went... I'm sorry?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:39):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:39):
And when you went to Cooper Ouellette's house that day, was Cooper Ouellette inside the house?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:43):
He was.
Christian Watson (05:31:46):
And were there other people there as well?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:48):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:49):
And while you were all with Cooper Ouellette, did anyone ask Cooper Ouellette what happened to Sophie that night?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:54):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:55):
And did Cooper Ouellette say anything when he was asked that?
Savvas Stergos (05:31:58):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:31:58):
And what did he say?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:00):
He said that, she said Sophie had to puke, so she opened the door and he saw her open the door. He slammed on the brakes, she fell out, and he got up or stopped, grabbed her, put her back in the truck and brought her back home.
Christian Watson (05:32:20):
Now, did you sit down with the Connecticut State Police and provide them a statement?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:23):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:26):
And do you recall where you spoke to the Connecticut State Police?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:29):
Litchfield.
Christian Watson (05:32:30):
When you spoke to the State Police, did you speak with the detective?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:33):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:34):
And did you tell him or her what you remembered happening?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:36):
I did, yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:37):
And did you tell that detective everything you remembered at that time?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:40):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:44):
The detective asked you to sign a written statement after you spoke with him?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:47):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:47):
And did you review that statement before you signed it?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:49):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:50):
And Did you eventually sign it?
Savvas Stergos (05:32:51):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:32:52):
May I have one moment? I have nothing further. Thank you.
Jon Raad (05:32:58):
Good afternoon. You just testified that you met with the detective, and you gave a statement, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:04):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:33:06):
You had a chance to read the statement before you signed it?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:08):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:33:08):
Okay. And isn't it true that Cooper and you and your brother leave each other voicemails like that?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:15):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:33:16):
But just because you left that voicemail, you weren't always +drunk, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:19):
Correct.
Jon Raad (05:33:19):
Right. It was more so a gag, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:22):
Correct.
Jon Raad (05:33:23):
All right. Do you recall telling the... Or let me rephrase. Do you recall this particular voicemail?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:33):
Rephrase that.
Jon Raad (05:33:34):
Do you recall what you just heard?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:36):
Yeah.
Jon Raad (05:33:36):
Is that clear in your mind?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:38):
Yeah.
Jon Raad (05:33:38):
Right. And isn't it true that at the time you knew that Cooper was playing a prank on you?
Savvas Stergos (05:33:44):
I wouldn't-
Christian Watson (05:33:44):
Objection. I would call for speculation as to what he knows Cooper knows.
Savvas Stergos (05:33:53):
I don't see how that's a prank.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:33:55):
[inaudible 05:33:55]. Don't answer now. Your question was, how would he know what Cooper was doing?
Jon Raad (05:34:00):
I asked him if he gave a sworn statement, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:34:03):
You didn't ask that. You asked if he knew what Cooper...
Jon Raad (05:34:09):
Sure.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:34:09):
That's sustained.
Jon Raad (05:34:11):
Isn't it true that you gave a sworn statement?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:14):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:34:14):
And isn't it true at the time you gave the sworn statement, you thought that Cooper was playing a prank on you with regard to that voicemail?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:21):
I wouldn't necessarily say a prank, but yeah.
Jon Raad (05:34:25):
You knew that he wasn't drunk, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:27):
I don't know if he was drunk that night.
Jon Raad (05:34:29):
If I were to show you a copy of your statement, would that refresh your recollection?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:31):
I already read it.
Jon Raad (05:34:33):
Okay. So you recall telling the police officer that you guys usually do that?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:37):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:34:38):
Okay. And then you didn't think anything of that?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:40):
I didn't think anything of the voicemail because I didn't hear it at the time.
Jon Raad (05:34:44):
Okay. Safe to say that every time you hear a voicemail like that from Cooper or your brother Urkel, that you don't always think that they're drunk?
Savvas Stergos (05:34:53):
Yeah, we mess around with each other.
Jon Raad (05:34:55):
All right. And as you sit here today, are you aware that Sophie separated from the vehicle on two occasions?
Savvas Stergos (05:35:02):
No. Actually, yes, when I read it after the time being.
Jon Raad (05:35:06):
One on Polly Dan?
David Clifton (05:35:08):
Objection.
Jon Raad (05:35:08):
Correct?
David Clifton (05:35:09):
Misstates the evidence.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:35:10):
I'm sorry, that's your witness.
Jon Raad (05:35:11):
Your Honor, may [inaudible 05:35:13]-
David Clifton (05:35:11):
Well,
Speaker X (05:35:11):
Sorry. I was focused on something.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:35:11):
Counsels approach.
Jon Raad (05:35:11):
No further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:35:11):
Unless you want to rephrase. All right. All right. [inaudible 05:35:56] any redirect?
David Clifton (05:35:11):
Please.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:35:57):
Okay. Have a seat, sir.
Christian Watson (05:35:58):
May I have one moment?
(05:36:10)
You've heard people when they're drunk before, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:13):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:36:14):
And when we played that voicemail for you here in court, Cooper Ouellette sound like he was drunk?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:18):
I'd say so.
Christian Watson (05:36:21):
Nothing further.
Jon Raad (05:36:23):
You recall giving a sworn statement, correct?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:25):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:36:25):
Do you recall believing that he was pretending at the time he left that voicemail?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:30):
I can't tell.
Jon Raad (05:36:31):
But I'm going to show you a copy of your statement. Would that refresh your recollection?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:34):
I already read it.
Jon Raad (05:36:35):
May I have a moment, Your Honor? Do you remember saying that he was pretending?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:50):
I didn't mean it in that voicemail. I meant in general.
Jon Raad (05:36:53):
Do you remember discussing the voicemail with the detective that you gave the sworn statement to?
Savvas Stergos (05:36:57):
Yes.
Jon Raad (05:36:58):
All right. Do you remember saying that Cooper was pretending?
Savvas Stergos (05:37:01):
I was referring that in previous voicemails, as in the voicemails he's left me.
Jon Raad (05:37:06):
No further questions.
Christian Watson (05:37:20):
In those previous voicemails that Cooper had left for you, can you describe his voice?
Savvas Stergos (05:37:26):
He would just talk in a stupid way.
Christian Watson (05:37:28):
Okay. Would he talk in the way that he left you that voicemail that night on May 20th of 2023?
Savvas Stergos (05:37:35):
I don't really remember.
Christian Watson (05:37:38):
Do you recall speaking to the detectives when you gave them a written statement?
Savvas Stergos (05:37:43):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:37:50):
I have nothing further.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:37:50):
Anything else?
Jon Raad (05:37:50):
Nothing further.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:37:52):
All right, thank you. Mr. Stergos, step down. Do not discuss your testimony with anybody nor let anybody discuss their testimony with you.
Savvas Stergos (05:37:58):
Okay.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:37:58):
Thank you.
Savvas Stergos (05:37:58):
Yep.
Speaker X (05:37:58):
There you go, Mr. Stergos.
Savvas Stergos (05:37:58):
Thank you.
Jon Raad (05:38:17):
It's Leah next, right?
David Clifton (05:38:18):
Is Leah next?
Jon Raad (05:38:18):
Yeah.
David Clifton (05:38:18):
Well, [inaudible 05:38:20] she...
Jon Raad (05:38:18):
That's what I have.
David Clifton (05:38:18):
Yeah.
Christian Watson (05:38:35):
And the state will call Leah Monterio. I may be pronouncing that last name wrong and I apologize if I am.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:38:44):
Did you say Leah?
Christian Watson (05:38:44):
Leah.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:38:45):
Leah Monterio?
(05:38:45)
Good afternoon, Ms. Monterio.
Leah Monterio (05:39:08):
Good afternoon.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:39:09):
I'm just going to have you face the clerk and raise your right hand, okay?
Clerk (05:39:12):
Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God upon penalty of perjury?
Leah Monterio (05:39:20):
I do.
Clerk (05:39:21):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Leah Monterio (05:39:23):
Leah Monterio, M-O-N-T-E-R-I-O.
Clerk (05:39:26):
And please state your town of residence.
Audio: Cooper Ouellette (05:39:27):
Arlington, Connecticut.
Clerk (05:39:28):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:39:29):
Thank you, Ms. Monterio. Have a seat.
Christian Watson (05:39:31):
How are you?
Leah Monterio (05:39:32):
Good. How are you?
Christian Watson (05:39:33):
Good. I'm just going to ask you to scoot forward. That microphone doesn't amplify your voice or records it, okay?
Leah Monterio (05:39:37):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:39:38):
Or maybe it does amplify your voice a little bit. Did you complete your high school degree?
Leah Monterio (05:39:42):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:39:44):
And where did you graduate from?
Leah Monterio (05:39:45):
Oliver Wolcott Technical High School.
Christian Watson (05:39:47):
And in what year was that?
Leah Monterio (05:39:47):
2020.
Christian Watson (05:39:49):
And are you currently working?
Leah Monterio (05:39:50):
I am.
Christian Watson (05:39:51):
And what do you do for a living?
Leah Monterio (05:39:52):
I'm a nanny.
Christian Watson (05:39:55):
Okay. And how long you been doing that?
Leah Monterio (05:39:56):
Since July of this year.
Christian Watson (05:39:58):
Okay. And do you currently live in Connecticut?
Leah Monterio (05:40:01):
I do.
Christian Watson (05:40:02):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit...
Speaker 12 (05:40:00):
I do.
Christian Watson (05:40:01):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 1. [inaudible 05:40:16] You see what just popped up on the screen there?
Speaker 12 (05:40:18):
I do.
Christian Watson (05:40:19):
And do you recognize the name that's depicted on that screen?
Speaker 12 (05:40:23):
I do.
Christian Watson (05:40:23):
And for the remainder of your testimony, if you have to refer to that person, I'm going to ask that you refer to her as Sophie, okay?
Speaker 12 (05:40:28):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:40:35):
Now, how long did you know Sophie?
Speaker 12 (05:40:37):
I knew her since 2020, so three, four years, around four years.
Christian Watson (05:40:42):
And were you friends with her?
Speaker 12 (05:40:43):
I was.
Christian Watson (05:40:44):
And when you knew Sophie, was she in a dating relationship with anyone?
Speaker 12 (05:40:47):
She was.
Christian Watson (05:40:48):
And who was she in a dating relationship with?
Speaker 12 (05:40:49):
Cooper Ouellette.
Christian Watson (05:40:51):
And are you familiar with Cooper Ouellette?
Speaker 12 (05:40:52):
I am.
Christian Watson (05:40:53):
Okay. And do you see Cooper Ouellette in the courtroom today?
Speaker 12 (05:40:55):
I do.
Christian Watson (05:40:56):
And could you just indicate an article of clothing he's wearing?
Speaker 12 (05:40:58):
Blue tie.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:41:00):
Record will reflect the in-court identification.
Christian Watson (05:41:04):
I'm going to direct your attention to May 20th, 2023 in a moment, okay?
Speaker 12 (05:41:08):
Okay.
Christian Watson (05:41:09):
But specifically in May of 2023, were you in a dating relationship with anyone yourself?
Speaker 12 (05:41:14):
I was.
Christian Watson (05:41:15):
And who were you dating?
Speaker 12 (05:41:16):
Colby Cables.
Christian Watson (05:41:18):
And are you dating Mr. Cables any longer?
Speaker 12 (05:41:20):
I'm not.
Christian Watson (05:41:23):
And specifically on May 20th of 2023, were you supposed to go to a gathering at the Schultz Corporation?
Speaker 12 (05:41:28):
I was, yes.
Christian Watson (05:41:30):
Okay. And who were you going to go with?
Speaker 12 (05:41:33):
Cooper, Sophie, and Colby was going to meet us there afterwards.
Christian Watson (05:41:36):
And did you end up going to that gathering?
Speaker 12 (05:41:38):
I did not.
Christian Watson (05:41:39):
And did Colby Cables go?
Speaker 12 (05:41:41):
He did not.
Christian Watson (05:41:42):
Where did Colby Cables go that night?
Speaker 12 (05:41:43):
He came to my house.
Christian Watson (05:41:44):
And where were you living then?
Speaker 12 (05:41:47):
Same residence in Torrington.
Christian Watson (05:41:49):
Okay. And while you and Colby Cables were at your house, did you have an occasion to speak with Sophie on the phone?
Speaker 12 (05:41:54):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:41:55):
And can you tell me how that happened?
Speaker 12 (05:41:57):
Colby was asleep in bed next to me and his phone rang and it was Sophie calling.
Christian Watson (05:42:02):
And did you answer the phone call when you saw Sophie calling?
Speaker 12 (05:42:04):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:42:06):
And about what time did Sophie call?
Speaker 12 (05:42:08):
Around 11:15.
Christian Watson (05:42:10):
And when you spoke with Sophie on the phone, what was the tone of her voice?
Speaker 12 (05:42:13):
She just sounded scared, like she needed help.
Christian Watson (05:42:17):
And what did Sophie say to you when she called Colby's phone that day?
Speaker 12 (05:42:22):
She had said that her and Cooper had gotten into a fight and that she needed a ride home and was wondering if we could come and pick her up.
Christian Watson (05:42:31):
And did you respond after she asked for a ride?
Speaker 12 (05:42:32):
I did. I asked Colby if we could go get her. He had said no. So I had told Sophie that if she could call a few more friends to see if somebody else could give her a ride, and if not, that I would go and get her myself.
Christian Watson (05:42:43):
And did the phone call end at that point?
Speaker 12 (05:42:44):
It did.
Christian Watson (05:42:46):
And did you try and contact Sophie at all after that call?
Speaker 12 (05:42:49):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:42:49):
How did you do that?
Speaker 12 (05:42:50):
I sent her a text message asking if she got a ride.
Christian Watson (05:42:54):
And what time do you recall sending that text message?
Speaker 12 (05:42:56):
It was around 11:35.
Christian Watson (05:42:58):
And did you use your phone to send that text message or Colby's?
Speaker 12 (05:43:01):
My phone.
Christian Watson (05:43:04):
And did Sophie respond to that text message?
Speaker 12 (05:43:06):
She did not.
Christian Watson (05:43:08):
Now, what, if anything, did you do at that point after you didn't get a response from Sophie?
Speaker 12 (05:43:12):
I checked her Snapchat location on Snap Maps.
Christian Watson (05:43:15):
And did Sophie share her location with you on Snapchat?
Speaker 12 (05:43:18):
She did.
Christian Watson (05:43:19):
And did you share your location with her?
Speaker 12 (05:43:20):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:43:21):
And when you checked her location, did you use Snap Map?
Speaker 12 (05:43:24):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:43:25):
And when you did that, where did you find her?
Speaker 12 (05:43:27):
She was at the Countryside restaurant in Burlington.
Christian Watson (05:43:33):
And did you check for Sophie's Snapchat location again after that?
Speaker 12 (05:43:37):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:43:38):
And what time did you check that for her location again?
Speaker 12 (05:43:40):
That was around 11:45.
Christian Watson (05:43:42):
And where was she when you checked?
Speaker 12 (05:43:44):
She was last seen on Polydan.
Christian Watson (05:43:46):
And did you use Snapchat in order to do that?
Speaker 12 (05:43:46):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:43:46):
Did you use the Snap Map in order to do that?
Speaker 12 (05:43:50):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:43:51):
Now, after you checked for a location and found her on Polydan in Burlington, did Colby wake up?
Speaker 12 (05:43:56):
Yeah.
Christian Watson (05:43:57):
And when Colby woke up, what did he do?
Speaker 12 (05:43:59):
He went home.
Christian Watson (05:44:00):
And what did you do after Colby went home?
Speaker 12 (05:44:02):
I went to bed.
Christian Watson (05:44:04):
And the next day, that would be May 21st of 2023, did you find out Sophie passed away?
Speaker 12 (05:44:10):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:44:11):
Now on May 21st of 2023, did you have an occasion to see Cooper Ouellette?
Speaker 12 (05:44:16):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:44:17):
And how did that come about?
Speaker 12 (05:44:19):
Cooper's mom, Carrie Ouellette, had reached out to Colby and had asked if we could all go over and be with Cooper and comfort him because he needed us.
Christian Watson (05:44:27):
Okay. And were you planning on going over, or did you go over there in the morning or the afternoon?
Speaker 12 (05:44:31):
The afternoon.
Christian Watson (05:44:32):
And did you go with Colby?
Speaker 12 (05:44:34):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:44:36):
And when you first got to the house, who answered the door to let you in?
Speaker 12 (05:44:39):
Cooper's mom, Carrie.
Christian Watson (05:44:41):
Okay. And did Carrie Ouellette say anything to you when she came to the door?
Speaker 12 (05:44:43):
She did. She opened the door, she let us in and she slammed it behind us, and she had let us know that this was not Cooper's fault and he had nothing to do with this and that we're not here to question him. We're just here to comfort her son.
Christian Watson (05:44:57):
And were you intimidated by the way you were spoken to?
Speaker 12 (05:44:59):
I was.
Christian Watson (05:45:01):
And was her tone elevated?
Speaker 12 (05:45:02):
It was.
Christian Watson (05:45:03):
And what went through your mind when that happened?
Speaker 12 (05:45:05):
I was just very shocked and confused as to why she would treat us that way when she had called us to just come and comfort her son, and that's what we were planning to do anyway.
Christian Watson (05:45:15):
And did you go into the house at that point?
Speaker 12 (05:45:16):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:45:17):
And were there other people there besides Cooper?
Speaker 12 (05:45:20):
The only person that was there was his brother, Finn.
Christian Watson (05:45:23):
Okay. And did you stay in the room where Cooper was the whole time you were at the house?
Speaker 12 (05:45:26):
I did not.
Christian Watson (05:45:27):
Did other people arrive at that house after you arrived too?
Speaker 12 (05:45:31):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:45:31):
And did they go inside the room where Cooper was?
Speaker 12 (05:45:34):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:45:35):
And were you present when Cooper Ouellette told people what happened to Sophie the night before?
Speaker 12 (05:45:41):
I was not.
Christian Watson (05:45:42):
Where were you?
Speaker 12 (05:45:43):
Cooper's mother, Carrie, and Colby's mother, Audra, had come into the living room and taken me out and brought into the first room of the house where you enter.
Christian Watson (05:45:52):
Okay. Did you sit down with any member of the state police and provide them with a written statement?
Speaker 12 (05:45:56):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:45:57):
And do you remember or recall where you spoke with the state police?
Speaker 12 (05:46:01):
Troop L in Litchfield.
Christian Watson (05:46:02):
And when you spoke with the state police, did you speak with a detective?
Speaker 12 (05:46:06):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:46:06):
And did you tell him or her everything you remembered?
Speaker 12 (05:46:10):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:46:12):
Did the detective ask you to sign a written statement after you spoke with them?
Speaker 12 (05:46:15):
Yes.
Christian Watson (05:46:16):
And did you have an occasion to read that statement before you signed it?
Speaker 12 (05:46:19):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:46:20):
And did you then sign it?
Speaker 12 (05:46:21):
I did.
Christian Watson (05:46:22):
May I have a moment? I have nothing further.
David Clifton (05:46:27):
No questions.
Speaker 12 (05:46:27):
All right.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:46:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (05:46:28):
Thank you.
Christian Watson (05:46:39):
[inaudible 05:46:37] That's you, right?
Speaker 15 (05:46:40):
Yep.
Christian Watson (05:46:40):
And then [inaudible 05:46:42]
David Clifton (05:46:43):
And I believe defense has a motion before the next witness as well.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:46:47):
All right. In chambers, there's a... Well, it's a good time for a 15-minute recess, okay? Take a break, ladies and gentlemen. Leave your notebooks on the chair. Do not discuss this case with anyone. Don't do any research on any social network, internet. Thank you. [inaudible 05:47:07]
Speaker 16 (05:46:54):
[inaudible 05:47:10]
Speaker 17 (05:46:54):
[inaudible 05:47:11]
Speaker 16 (05:46:54):
Audio comms.
Judge Chris Pelosi (05:46:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 18 (05:46:54):
[inaudible 05:47:19] was red like...
Speaker 19 (06:04:09):
Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:04:10):
Good afternoon, everybody. Have a seat. How are we for time, Attorney Clifton? How many more witnesses?
David Clifton (06:04:18):
This will be the last witness today, Judge.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:04:22):
All right. Ready for the jury?
David Clifton (06:04:22):
Yes, Your Honor.
Speaker 13 (06:04:22):
Yes. You got the disclosure. I sent disclosure from my expert [inaudible 06:05:06]
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:05:54):
All right. Thank you. Will the parties stipulate the presence of the jury?
Christian Watson (06:05:56):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:05:56):
All right. Have a seat. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. State?
David Clifton (06:06:05):
State calls Julie Dumont.
Speaker 14 (06:06:06):
If you would follow me [inaudible 06:06:06]
Julie Dumont (06:06:06):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 14 (06:06:06):
You're welcome. [inaudible 06:06:35]
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:06:35):
Come on [inaudible 06:06:35] I'm just going to have you raise your right hand over here. Just raise your right hand. Thank you.
Clerk (06:06:42):
Do you solemnly swear, solemnly, sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God upon penalty of perjury?
Julie Dumont (06:06:50):
I do.
Clerk (06:06:50):
And please state your full name, spelling your last name.
Julie Dumont (06:06:53):
Julie Dumont, D-U-M-O-N-T.
Clerk (06:06:56):
And please state your town of residence.
Julie Dumont (06:06:58):
Burlington, Connecticut.
Clerk (06:06:59):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:07:00):
Thank you, Ms. Dumont. Have a seat. State?
David Clifton (06:07:00):
Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, ma'am.
Julie Dumont (06:07:00):
Hi, good afternoon.
David Clifton (06:07:13):
In May of 2023, where did you live?
Julie Dumont (06:07:17):
65 Johnny Cake Mountain Road in Burlington, Connecticut.
David Clifton (06:07:21):
And did you have cameras on your home in May of 2023?
Julie Dumont (06:07:24):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:07:25):
And can you describe to the jury where those cameras were located on your home?
Julie Dumont (06:07:31):
In May of 2023, there was one in particular that was, if you're looking at my home, it's on the left side on the outside.
David Clifton (06:07:40):
And where did that camera face?
Julie Dumont (06:07:43):
The front yard and Johnny Cake, the road.
David Clifton (06:07:46):
And was that camera in good working order on May 20th into the early morning hours of May 21st, 2023?
Julie Dumont (06:07:52):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:07:54):
And did there come a time shortly after May 20th that the Connecticut State Police came to your residence?
Julie Dumont (06:07:59):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:07:59):
And did they request your surveillance footage?
Julie Dumont (06:08:02):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:08:02):
Were you able to provide it to them?
Julie Dumont (06:08:04):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:08:07):
I'm going to show you what's been marked State's Exhibit 82. Take a look at that, see if you recognize it.
Julie Dumont (06:08:18):
Yes, I recognize it.
David Clifton (06:08:19):
What do you recognize it to be?
Julie Dumont (06:08:20):
On Friday when I was here, I reviewed it and I put my initials and the date on it.
David Clifton (06:08:26):
And when you were putting your initials and date on it, what were you saying was contained on that flash drive?
Julie Dumont (06:08:33):
I validated the video that I provided of the road and the front yard and all of that and the timeframe.
David Clifton (06:08:44):
Was there any file on that flash drive that you did not recognize?
Julie Dumont (06:08:47):
No.
David Clifton (06:08:49):
Was it in this surveillance footage that you provided to the Connecticut State Police in May of 2023?
Julie Dumont (06:08:54):
Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.
David Clifton (06:08:55):
Sure. Was it the surveillance footage that you had provided to the Connecticut State Police in May of 2023?
Julie Dumont (06:08:59):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:09:00):
And is it in substantially the same condition as when you gave it to them?
Julie Dumont (06:09:03):
Yes.
David Clifton (06:09:05):
I'm going to offer it full.
Christian Watson (06:09:05):
No objection.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:09:06):
All right. It's full.
David Clifton (06:09:07):
I have no further questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:09:08):
Thank you. Okay.
Christian Watson (06:09:08):
No questions.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:09:09):
All right. Thank you, Ms. Dumont.
Julie Dumont (06:09:09):
Thank you.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:09:09):
Have a nice day.
Julie Dumont (06:09:09):
You too. Thank you.
David Clifton (06:09:25):
Judge, the state has no additional witnesses today. We've moved a little faster than anticipated, but we are on schedule.
Judge Chris Pelosi (06:09:31):
All right. Let me just have counsel approach really quick. Gentlemen, thank you. It's 3:45. We're done for the day. The state will have more witnesses tomorrow. As Attorney Clifton said, we are on schedule. So at this point, just have a good evening. Again, really important. I know I have to say this all the time, but it is important. Do not discuss this with friends, family members when you go home tonight. Please, no research on the internet, social media, or any type of investigative Facebook, YouTube, anything. Okay? I appreciate it.
