CT v. Cooper Ouellette Day 5

Cooper Ouellette faces charges in the death of Sophie Ringquist, day five. Read the transcript here.

November 5, 2026

Copyright Disclaimer

Under Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Speaker 1 (00:00):

[inaudible 00:27:55] Good morning, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (28:00):

Morning everybody. Have a seat. Can the parties identify themselves for the record?

Chris Watson (28:03):

Chris Watson from state. Good morning.

David Clifton (28:05):

Morning. David Clifton for the state.

Jon Raad (28:07):

Jon Raad for the defendant.

Martin Minella (28:07):

Martin Minella for the defendant. Good morning, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (28:12):

Morning Mr. Minella. Ready for the jury?

Martin Minella (28:13):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (28:13):

All right.

Speaker 2 (28:13):

We forecast the exhibit. [inaudible 00:28:25].

Speaker 4 (28:13):

Eddie? Ed.

Speaker 2 (28:13):

You're on TV. It's going to fly right now.

Judge Chris Pelosi (29:47):

All right, will the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?

All (29:49):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (29:49):

Good morning, everybody. State can call its next witness.

Chris Watson (30:01):

Thank you, Your Honor. State calls Mark Sanders.

Speaker 3 (30:02):

I'll call him.

Mark Sanders (30:02):

Good morning.

Chris Watson (30:02):

Yeah.

Judge Chris Pelosi (30:02):

Good morning, Mr. Sanders.

Mark Sanders (30:02):

Morning.

Clerk (30:02):

Morning.

Mark Sanders (30:02):

Morning.

Clerk (30:35):

Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God upon penalty of perjury?

Mark Sanders (30:45):

I do, yes.

Clerk (30:46):

And please state your full name, spelling your last name.

Mark Sanders (30:48):

It's Mark Sanders, S-A-N-D-E-R-S.

Clerk (30:50):

And please state for the record your place of business and business address.

Mark Sanders (30:54):

Sure. It's New England State Police Information Network, NESPIN, 124 Grove Street, Suite 105 in Franklin, Massachusetts.

Clerk (31:00):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (31:01):

Thank you, Mr. Sanders. Have a seat. State.

Chris Watson (31:08):

Good morning, sir.

Mark Sanders (31:08):

Good morning.

Chris Watson (31:09):

Would you please briefly describe your educational background for the jury?

Mark Sanders (31:12):

Sure. So, I have a associate's degree from Cochise College in Arizona in intelligence operations studies. I also have a bachelor's degree from Bridgewater State University in Massachusetts in criminal justice and a master's degree in intelligence studies with a focus on criminal intelligence from American Military University.

Chris Watson (31:34):

And did you serve our country in the military?

Mark Sanders (31:35):

I did.

Chris Watson (31:37):

Please describe that service.

Mark Sanders (31:38):

So, I was an all-source intelligence analyst and I served a year in Afghanistan supporting special operations there, doing detainee operations analysis, developing essentially target packages for insurgents in Afghanistan.

Chris Watson (31:55):

And you had mentioned that you work at NESPIN. What is NESPIN?

Mark Sanders (31:58):

NESPIN is, again, New England State Police Information Network. It is a grant funded organization. It's part of the regional information sharing systems or RISS, and it's grant funded yearly by Congress and it's a grant administered by the Department of Justice, specifically the Bureau of Justice Assistance.

Chris Watson (32:16):

And what does NESPIN do?

Mark Sanders (32:18):

NESPIN's primary mission is information sharing among law enforcement. Over the years, we've added additional services. Where I fall in is investigative support.

Chris Watson (32:28):

And how long have you been with NESPIN?

Mark Sanders (32:30):

10 years this month.

Chris Watson (32:32):

Have you had training specific to cell phones, geolocation information?

Mark Sanders (32:36):

I have, yes.

Chris Watson (32:37):

And can you describe that for the jury?

Mark Sanders (32:39):

Sure. So, I came into NESPIN in 2016 November and 2017 took my first course and called detail record and geolocation analysis. And that was with a company called ZetX. They provided the software that we use for our mapping. And I took a 40-hour course in 2017. 2018, I took a 40-hour subject matter expert course with ZetX to become a subject matter expert. There was additional testing required...

Mark Sanders (33:00):

... become a subject matter expert. There was additional testing required. Once that was completed in 2019, I obtained that certification as a call detail record and geolocation analysis expert. I've also taken courses with the FBI's CAS team, which is the Cellular Analysis Survey team, and the National Domestic Communications Assistance Center, which is the NDCAC, and they're kind of together, the FBI and NDCAC.

(33:26)
Finally, I took a course with forensic analytics and radio frequency as it relates to cell site signals and how they interact with phones, and more specifically how to use their drive test scanner and understanding the radio frequency as it is involved there.

Judge Chris Pelosi (33:45):

And do you maintain certifications relative to geolocation analysis?

Mark Sanders (33:49):

I do, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (33:50):

And what is that?

Mark Sanders (33:51):

I maintain that certification that I already discussed, which was the call detail record and geolocation subject matter expert.

Judge Chris Pelosi (33:58):

When did you first receive that certification?

Mark Sanders (33:59):

I believe it was January 2019.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:01):

And have you maintained that certification from 2019 to today?

Mark Sanders (34:06):

I have, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:06):

Is there a continuing education requirement to maintain that certification?

Mark Sanders (34:10):

There is, yeah. We have to attend one either training or conference per year, and I've done that every year since 2019 with the exception, I believe, 2020 for COVID.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:20):

And are you a member of any professional organizations relative to geolocation analysis?

Mark Sanders (34:25):

Not specifically any professional organizations, no.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:28):

Are you a member of any professional organizations relative to information analysis?

Mark Sanders (34:33):

I am. I'm a member of the Massachusetts ... I'm sorry, I actually did let that one expire.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:38):

Okay.

Mark Sanders (34:39):

Sorry.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:40):

Okay.

Mark Sanders (34:41):

Sorry, but I am a member of IALEIA, which is the International Association of Law Enforcement Analysts.

Judge Chris Pelosi (34:48):

And what are your job responsibilities at NESPIN?

Mark Sanders (34:50):

So I'm a criminal intelligence analyst. Really, criminal intelligence analysts can do a lot of things, but me specifically, I deal with phones and crypto. Can break down phones into two variations, which is the analysis of the cell site records, which comes from the phone company, less from the phone itself. And also I'm a certified expert in the analysis of the phones themselves and the data that would come off of the phone.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:14):

And about how many cases have you personally worked on involving cellphone analysis?

Mark Sanders (35:18):

Cellphone analysis, it's around 300, and I would estimate around 10% of those are on physical devices.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:24):

And about how many cases have you worked on involving those call detail records and carrier records?

Mark Sanders (35:30):

I would estimate about 90%, so roughly 270.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:35):

And is there a peer review process to the NESPIN reporting?

Mark Sanders (35:38):

Yes. Every report that goes out has to be peer-reviewed by another analyst.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:42):

And have you had to testify before?

Mark Sanders (35:44):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:44):

About how many times?

Mark Sanders (35:45):

I would say somewhere in the realm of 12.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:47):

And in what courts have you testified?

Mark Sanders (35:49):

I've testified here before, I've testified in New Hampshire, and I testified in Massachusetts.

Judge Chris Pelosi (35:54):

And in each of those courts, were you allowed to offer expert opinions as to cellphone analysis?

Mark Sanders (35:58):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:00):

Are you familiar with applications or programs that utilize cellphone geolocation information?

Mark Sanders (36:05):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:06):

What programs are you familiar with?

Mark Sanders (36:07):

I think the ones that we would most be familiar with is something like Google Maps or Apple Maps on our phone for navigation.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:14):

And specifically the Life360 application, are you familiar with that?

Mark Sanders (36:18):

I am, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:19):

What information does Life360 use to present geolocation information to its users?

Mark Sanders (36:24):

It uses the iPhone location services, so the information that the iPhone gives it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:30):

Do iPhones have GPS capabilities?

Mark Sanders (36:32):

They do.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:33):

And does Life360 utilize that GPS location information to present its data?

Mark Sanders (36:37):

Yes, it utilizes the GPS location that is provided by the iPhone location services.

Judge Chris Pelosi (36:43):

And does Life360 have proprietary filtering algorithms to present that data?

Mark Sanders (36:51):

So the question, they will select some for upload to the server based on proprietary algorithms, but the actual data that is presented is the raw data itself.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:01):

So not every point recorded by the phone is saved on their servers?

Mark Sanders (37:06):

Correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:06):

But once it's saved on their servers, they do not filter it or they do not modify the data?

Mark Sanders (37:13):

The data that is sent is raw from the phone with the exception of they'll take, for instance, meters per second and change it to miles per hour.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:22):

And do those other applications that you mentioned utilize that same methodology?

Mark Sanders (37:26):

They would use the same location services. Whether or not they decide to alter ... Not alter, but modify the way that they're presenting it is going to be application-specific.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:37):

But the source of that information is from where?

Mark Sanders (37:40):

It's always going to be from the Apple iPhone location services.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:45):

And are you aware of any program that does not utilize the cellphone internal GPS information to present location data?

Mark Sanders (37:53):

No.

Judge Chris Pelosi (37:55):

I want to turn your attention to the case that we're here about. Was there a time you became ... Asked to consult on this case by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (38:02):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (38:03):

And what information were you provided by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (38:06):

I was provided a lot of information in this case. If I can break it down by individual, I was provided a Snapchat return for Sophie. I was provided a Cellebrite extraction, a Cellebrite reader extraction, for Sophie. I was provided AT&T call detail records for Sophie. I believe that's everything for Sophie.

(38:29)
For Mr. Ouellette, I was provided the Life360 search warrant return. And going back to Sophie, I was actually also provided the Life360 search warrant return as well.

Judge Chris Pelosi (38:41):

Were you also provided a Cellebrite analysis of the defendant Cooper Ouellette's phone?

Mark Sanders (38:45):

I was not independently provided the entire extraction.

Judge Chris Pelosi (38:49):

Were you provided with a report from Cellebrite relative to his phone?

Mark Sanders (38:55):

No. I specifically asked for individual points. I did not receive any entirety ... The entirety of anything.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:01):

Okay. Were you provided any geolocation information from the defendant's cellphone?

Mark Sanders (39:06):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:07):

And when you reviewed that geolocation information from the defendant's cellphone itself, was there geolocation information during the relevant timeframe in this case?

Mark Sanders (39:15):

No.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:20):

Did you review all this information?

Mark Sanders (39:21):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:22):

And what did you do as your first step in analysis?

Mark Sanders (39:24):

So my first step in analysis is always going to be figuring out what I'm actually mapping against, what the locations of interests are, what the timeframes of interest are, and mapping the data in relation to that information to see what is available, what it tells or doesn't tell. Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:45):

And were you given a relevant timeframe from the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (39:49):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:49):

And what was that timeframe?

Mark Sanders (39:50):

The evening of May 20th of 2024.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:53):

Sorry, of what?

Mark Sanders (39:55):

Of 2022. Apologies.

Judge Chris Pelosi (39:57):

Was it the evening of May 20th, 2023?

Mark Sanders (39:59):

Sorry, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (40:02):

It's been a few years, I guess.

Mark Sanders (40:02):

Yeah.

Judge Chris Pelosi (40:05):

And you had mentioned mapping data. Can you describe to the jury what do you do to map ... Like step-by-step. First, what do you do to map that data?

Mark Sanders (40:13):

So most records are provided to us in a format that we can utilize and the program that we use can utilize. So, largely, we can take that data, input it into our program, and that program will export a mappable data file that we can analyze in Google Earth. Largely, that's what I had to do in this case where I specify certain points of information, like we'll see the colors are going to be different. But, largely, we rely on the program to do the creation of the maps for us.

Judge Chris Pelosi (40:43):

And those GPS log files that you reviewed, how was that data expressed?

Mark Sanders (40:48):

So that data was expressed a little bit differently. The log files from Sophie's device were in a large text file with latitudes, longitudes, timestamps, and horizontal accuracies listed in a format that was not easy to manipulate in the way it came in.

Judge Chris Pelosi (41:11):

And you had mentioned that when you reviewed the defendant Cooper Ouellette's cellphone, you did not locate geolocation data during the relevant timeframe. When you reviewed the extraction report from Sophie's cellphone, were you able to locate geolocation data in the relevant timeframe?

Mark Sanders (41:26):

I was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (41:27):

About how much?

Mark Sanders (41:28):

A substantial amount, largely second-by-second on the evening while the device was moving.

Judge Chris Pelosi (41:39):

And you had mentioned the mapping process involves inputting data into Google Earth. Can you describe to the jury what that is?

Mark Sanders (41:47):

Sure. So Google Earth is probably going to be very similar to Google Maps, which I'm sure most people in here use. And it's a program that we can use for mapping just like you would in Google Earth, but we can also add layers on top. So we can add GPS points, we can add cell tower information, so we can really visualize over time as well.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:05):

And are those GPS points expressed in latitude/longitude?

Mark Sanders (42:08):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:09):

And to what degree?

Mark Sanders (42:10):

Can you rephrase?

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:11):

Sure. Does it go to a decimal point, a general region? What is it?

Mark Sanders (42:15):

So it's going to be decimal latitude and longitude, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:19):

And once you mapped out that data, did you discover anything relative to the path of travel that was unknown to the Connecticut State Police information provided to you?

Mark Sanders (42:30):

I did, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:31):

What was that?

Mark Sanders (42:32):

The activity on Locust Road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:33):

Okay. And what did you learn about Locust Road?

Mark Sanders (42:37):

Locust Road was the location where, based on timestamp, a video was taken from Sophie's device and also the path of travel back north.

Judge Chris Pelosi (42:50):

And when you were originally provided that path of travel, what information were you given relative to 72 versus Locust Road?

Mark Sanders (43:01):

So my understanding was that ... Their understanding was that the truck was expected to have traveled north on 72.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:10):

And did the truck travel north on 72 according to the geolocation data you found?

Mark Sanders (43:14):

Until it hit Locust Road and took a left, via the devices.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:18):

So it took a left on Locust Road?

Mark Sanders (43:19):

Correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:20):

And is that in the direction of Sophie's residence or away from Sophie's residence?

Mark Sanders (43:24):

That would not be a direct way to get to Sophie's residence.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:28):

And you had mentioned that there was a video that was located on Sophie's phone?

Mark Sanders (43:33):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:33):

Were you provided that video of interest by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (43:38):

Yes, I was already made aware of it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:39):

And did you look through her extraction to find that video?

Mark Sanders (43:43):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (43:43):

And what, if any, information did you review relative to the timing of that video?

Mark Sanders (43:49):

So the timing of that video, the timestamp associated with the video, I confirmed that that would be the start timestamp of the video, so the time in which the video was first started.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:00):

And were you able to make a determination, based upon the time that video started, where Sophie's phone was when that recording began?

Mark Sanders (44:08):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:08):

Where was that?

Mark Sanders (44:09):

It was on Locust Road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:18):

Now you had also mentioned receiving records from Life360 itself?

Mark Sanders (44:23):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:24):

And were there geolocation information of the defendant's device, Cooper Ouellette's, from the return of Life360?

Mark Sanders (44:31):

Yes, and more specifically there was a GeoPoints file.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:35):

And what is a GeoPoints file?

Mark Sanders (44:36):

GeoPoints file is the raw location data for Mr. Ouellette's device.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:41):

And were you also able to load that geolocation data into your presentation?

Mark Sanders (44:46):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:51):

In the information that you garnered from Life360's return to that search warrant, were there noticeable gaps in Cooper Ouellette's geolocation information?

Mark Sanders (44:58):

There was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (44:58):

And can you describe that?

Mark Sanders (45:00):

There was a specific gap, I think it was between 11:38 PM and 11:49 PM, when there was no location activity and the Life360 records did not log a trip.

Judge Chris Pelosi (45:15):

What, if anything, can you conclude from that?

Mark Sanders (45:18):

I can conclude that Life360 did not collect the data. It wasn't on Life360 servers. Beyond that, there's not really a ton I can conclude beyond why that might have happened based on the way Life360 acts.

Judge Chris Pelosi (45:37):

Were you also provided with surveillance footage during your review of the Connecticut State Police information?

Mark Sanders (45:42):

I was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (45:44):

And what, if anything, did you do with the surveillance footage relative to the geolocation information?

Mark Sanders (45:49):

I input the surveillance video into the map alongside the Life360 data so we could see, in relation to time and space, where the devices were and where the addresses of these surveillance videos were and also show the surveillance videos actively as the progression of the devices is moving.

Judge Chris Pelosi (46:11):

Generally speaking, does a cellphone save geolocation data absent a request from a program?

Mark Sanders (46:21):

I would say, absent a request from a program, the device would not collect substantial amounts of location data.

Judge Chris Pelosi (46:29):

And is there a time period in which that data overwrites if it's not being requested by a program or application?

Mark Sanders (46:35):

The overwrite period is going to be largely the same across the board, no matter how much location data is there, from my understanding.

Judge Chris Pelosi (46:50):

Were you also ... In the extraction of Sophie's phone, did you also look for text messages during the relevant timeframe?

Mark Sanders (46:59):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (46:59):

And did you find any text messages during that relevant timeframe on Locust Road?

Mark Sanders (47:04):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:05):

And did you present that information in your animation?

Mark Sanders (47:15):

I did, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:15):

Was that animation peer-reviewed?

Mark Sanders (47:15):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:17):

And was that animation approved and finalized?

Mark Sanders (47:20):

It was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:22):

And what geolocation data does that animation present?

Mark Sanders (47:26):

Life360 data.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:31):

Turning to the geolocation data from Life360, during your presentation, did you use the term server point?

Mark Sanders (47:38):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (47:39):

What is a server point?

Mark Sanders (47:40):

A server point is when the Life360 servers either had the data for Mr. Ouellette's device or would have had the data for Sophie's device. And I say would have had the data because within the Life360 log files, we can see it is attempting to either successfully or not send the coordinates to the server.

Judge Chris Pelosi (48:04):

And did you also use the term sample point in your presentation?

Mark Sanders (48:05):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (48:06):

What is a sample point?

Mark Sanders (48:10):

So specific to Sophie's device, the Life360 log file collects the latitude, longitude, timestamp, and horizontal accuracy on a relatively frequent basis, largely second-by-second while it's collecting this data. It does not do anything with the majority of that data. However, it's still in the log file, and all of those points, even though it were never sent to Life360, we could use and we could map. Those points in particular I called sample points.

Judge Chris Pelosi (48:41):

And what is the main difference between the data in a sample point and a server point?

Mark Sanders (48:46):

So from our perspective, the main difference is going to be that sample points have just that horizontal accuracy. They don't have speed, they don't have heading, which will be the direction. So think like north, south, et cetera. They don't have vertical accuracy, which is going to be altitude accuracy. Yeah, so they just don't have the additional data that still comes from the device, but for whatever reason, they're not requesting second-by-second to the sample points.

Judge Chris Pelosi (49:13):

So do those server points have speed information from the device?

Mark Sanders (49:18):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (49:19):

Do those sample points have speed information from the device?

Mark Sanders (49:23):

They are not from the device, no.

Judge Chris Pelosi (49:25):

What, if anything, did you do to figure out the speed of those sample points?

Mark Sanders (49:31):

So what I did with the sample points, because they were second-by-second, I took the latitude and longitude between the points and I determined based on the calculation of distance divided by ... Sorry, distance divided by time equals speed. It's well-understood, where we can calculate the speed between each point.

Judge Chris Pelosi (49:54):

Okay. And did you then add the speed that you calculated using that scientific formula into your animation?

Mark Sanders (50:01):

I did, yes. Marked with an S.

Judge Chris Pelosi (50:09):

When you were presenting the geolocation data, did you look to corroborate it in any way?

Mark Sanders (50:14):

I did, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (50:15):

And what, if anything, corroborated that geolocation data in your animation?

Mark Sanders (50:19):

So the main one is going to be the surveillance video of ... It's largely the truck driving by. The other is just the corroboration in space and time that these GPS points aren't jittering all over the place, aren't traveling through the woods or through homes. They're traveling on known roads in speeds that you would expect these points to travel.

Judge Chris Pelosi (50:44):

Now, prior to this case, had you used Life360 geolocation information before?

Mark Sanders (50:48):

Not specifically Life360.

Judge Chris Pelosi (50:50):

Did you decide to conduct a test of Life360 data prior to your presentation?

Mark Sanders (50:55):

Yes, specifically the sample points.

Judge Chris Pelosi (50:57):

And what were you testing?

Mark Sanders (50:59):

I was testing the speed calculation.

Judge Chris Pelosi (51:01):

How did you conduct that test?

Mark Sanders (51:03):

What I did was in my Tesla Model 3, we can pull up a web browser. I pulled up the web browser and went to time.gov so I had a very accurate time. Next to it was a speedometer. So I wanted to see how fast I was going at a very specific speed and I calculated that, brought it all over to Excel, and corroborated that against a device that was running Life360 at the time.

Judge Chris Pelosi (51:29):

And were you recording this information via video?

Mark Sanders (51:32):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (51:37):

How did you compare the data in those two datasets?

Mark Sanders (51:41):

So I compared the data by looking for when Life360 collected something, I wanted to compare that directly against the data from the video. So when I had a match where I had good data from both of them, that was a point that overlapped.

Judge Chris Pelosi (51:57):

And what were the results of that test?

Mark Sanders (51:59):

So the results of that test were that if you are analyzing the data, the raw data, and making a speed calculation, that you need to limit the horizontal accuracy when making that speed calculation. Essentially, if you have a horizontal accuracy that is 10, 20, 30 meters, you're going to lose fidelity on that speed calculation.

Judge Chris Pelosi (52:21):

What is horizontal accuracy?

Mark Sanders (52:23):

Horizontal accuracy is the ... Think of it as a circle around a point. So that horizontal accuracy is an uncertainty radius where a phone location services, GPS, never get down to the literal pinpoint accuracy, that there's going to be some uncertainty around it, and that horizontal accuracy is going to be portrayed in what we see.

Judge Chris Pelosi (52:45):

And did you discover a rating of horizontal accuracy that allowed all those data points to 100% be included?

Mark Sanders (52:54):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (52:54):

And what was that?

Mark Sanders (52:57):

Can you-

Judge Chris Pelosi (52:57):

What was the horizontal accuracy rating that allowed for those accurate results?

Mark Sanders (53:01):

So just to answer the question, I included everything for the horizontal accuracies. I edited the display of speed on these sample points to anything that relied on a horizontal accuracy that exceeded five meters. So if there was a horizontal accuracy of five meters or more, I did not list a speed calculation on that. It's just empty or it's N/A.

Judge Chris Pelosi (53:27):

Sorry, just to go back to the test-

Mark Sanders (53:28):

Sure.

Judge Chris Pelosi (53:29):

... did the results of your test yield that if you only calculate horizontal accuracy five meters or less, all the datasets matched?

Mark Sanders (53:42):

That the speeds matched within five miles per hour 100% of the time. Within two miles per hour, I think it was 92% of the time.

Judge Chris Pelosi (53:53):

Based upon the results of that test, what, if anything, did you do to the presentation of data in your animation?

Mark Sanders (53:59):

And that's going back to what I was discussing before where I limited the calculation of that speed on the sample points to only five meters or less horizontal accuracy, and that essentially limits the amount of anomalous speeds that would be entered.

Judge Chris Pelosi (54:17):

And so, if there's a data point in your animation that does not have a speed rating in that set, what does that mean?

Mark Sanders (54:25):

So specifically for the sample points, which again are going to be displayed separately from the server points, they will be marked with an S in the beginning on the label. That means either that there was no preceding sample points to calculate against because you're calculating speed between two, and I limited the timeframe to four seconds. In actuality, it was one second was what ended up happening. And also the five-meter horizontal accuracy limit, anything five meters or above did not have a speed calculation on it because of the lack of reliability.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:00):

So based upon your test, do you believe to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that those speed calculations that you made are within five miles an hour accurate?

Mark Sanders (55:08):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:10):

I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 87 for identification. I want to see if you recognize this.

Mark Sanders (55:18):

Sure. I do.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:19):

What do you recognize it to be?

Mark Sanders (55:20):

It is a flash drive that I reviewed earlier that has my animations on it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:24):

And at the State's request, did you break your animation down into two presentations?

Mark Sanders (55:28):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:29):

And is that the two animations that you prepared?

Mark Sanders (55:33):

It is the two animations, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:34):

And are they in the same or substantially the same condition as when you prepared them?

Mark Sanders (55:37):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:37):

I'm going to offer full.

Speaker 5 (55:37):

No objection.

Speaker 6 (55:40):

All right. Cool.

Mark Sanders (55:45):

Okay.

Judge Chris Pelosi (55:45):

I'm going to ask Inspector Apicella to bring Animation 1, all the way at the beginning. Mr. Sanders, can you describe to the jury what we're seeing here in the top left corner?

Mark Sanders (55:59):

So what we're seeing here is Google Earth in the way that I would see it while I'm using it. And in the top left-hand corner, you will see what we call the timeline slider, which will have the inner and outer times that are being displayed at a given time. So that will be continually changing and it will always show what is being shown based on timestamp.

Judge Chris Pelosi (56:20):

Is that real time?

Mark Sanders (56:21):

Meaning?

Judge Chris Pelosi (56:24):

The time that's ... Well, withdrawn. Are there times in the animation where the presentation of time speeds up or slows down?

Mark Sanders (56:31):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (56:32):

And is that going to always be reflected up here, what the actual time is, regardless of how fast it's moving?

Mark Sanders (56:36):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (56:36):

In the bottom right corner, there's something labeled key. Can you just describe what you listed there?

Mark Sanders (56:47):

Sure. So this is going to be for this animation, the key. It'll be different for the second one. This one is going to be two points, which will have Mr. Ouellette's blue Life360 data and Sophie's pink Life360 data.

(57:03)
You're also going to see various colors of pins that will reference points on the map. We can start with the one that we have here, which is Tidy Services LLC, which is that red pin that you see there right in the center.

Judge Chris Pelosi (57:18):

And were you provided information by Connecticut State Police as to what Tidy Services LLC was [inaudible 00:57:24]?

Mark Sanders (57:24):

I was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (57:25):

And what is that to your knowledge?

Mark Sanders (57:27):

My understanding is it's Mr. Ouellette's father's business.

Judge Chris Pelosi (57:36):

All right. And if we could begin playing.

Speaker X (57:36):

[inaudible 00:58:11].

Judge Chris Pelosi (58:48):

Can we pause here? Pausing the video at one minute, nine seconds in the file. The time limit is 5:20:23, 6:19:23 to 5:20:23, 6:19:53. Mr. Sanders, is the geolocation information presented there consistent with Cooper Ouellette's cell device turning left onto Polly Dan Road at that point?

Mark Sanders (59:09):

Left onto Field View-

Judge Chris Pelosi (59:11):

I'm sorry.

Mark Sanders (59:11):

... from Polly Dan.

Judge Chris Pelosi (59:11):

From Polly Dan, correct. And if we could resume.

Video: Speaker 6 (59:14):

So [inaudible 00:59:19].

Speaker X (59:14):

[inaudible 01:02:01].

(59:14)
[inaudible 01:02:05].

(59:14)
Bless you.

(59:14)
Thank you.

(59:14)
[inaudible 01:03:48].

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:05:59):

You can see a yellow thumbtack being displayed in the screen. There ...

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:06:00):

...little thumbtack being displayed in the screen. Is the geolocation data from both phones consistent with those devices stopping at that location for a period of time?

Mark Sanders (01:06:10):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:06:11):

Is that depicted in this animation?

Mark Sanders (01:06:12):

It is, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:06:47):

‍

Pause here. Pausing at 8:41 in the video. Real time display 5/20/23 7:17:17, to 5/20/23 7:17:46. There's a rather large circle in pink at 7:17:37 with "N/A" written next to it. What does that N/A entail?

Mark Sanders (01:07:09):

N/A means not available. This is a Life360 server point that did not include speed data. So the iPhone did not give Life360 any speed data for this.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:07:21):

And why is that circle so large?

Mark Sanders (01:07:23):

That circle is large because there is no clear GPS fix in this case and... Yes, sorry. Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:07:34):

And can you explain the anomaly?

Mark Sanders (01:07:36):

I would not call it an anomaly. And the reason is because it is a point that is centered on a home and the iPhone uses additional sensors beyond GPS. It'll use Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and cellular. And this is very consistent with it recognizing a Wi-Fi hotspot that would be in that home. And that's likely why the point is on the home itself and large enough to meet the road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:08:03):

If we could resume. Pause here. Pausing at 9:26 in the animation. Real time, 5/20/23 7:21:47, to 5/20/23, 7:23:17. There's a blue thumbtack displayed on this screen. What is that denoting?

Mark Sanders (01:09:03):

Edgewood Wine & Spirits.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:09:05):

And did both Sophie and the defendant's cell phone geolocation data show them stopping at that business for a period of time?

Mark Sanders (01:09:12):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:09:13):

And is that depicted in this animation?

Mark Sanders (01:09:14):

It will be, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:09:16):

Continue playing. Pause here. 10:40 animation. Real time, 5/20/23 7:29:14, to 5/20/23 7:29:43, I believe? Yeah. Is this consistent with when those cell phone devices were leaving Edgewood Wine & Spirits?

Mark Sanders (01:10:51):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:10:52):

And does the geolocation data show the phones being at that location for approximately seven minutes?

Mark Sanders (01:11:02):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:11:04):

If we could resume. So we got a pink thumbtack in the animation, what is that?

Mark Sanders (01:12:01):

That's going to be the Chili's in Bristol.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:03):

And was the geolocation data from both cell phones consistent with it stopping at Chili's for a while?

Mark Sanders (01:12:07):

I would say the parking lot behind it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:23):

Now there's a, I guess, teal thumbtack in the video, is that correct?

Mark Sanders (01:12:27):

Yes. Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:28):

And what building is that?

Mark Sanders (01:12:31):

I'd actually call the light blue, but that's going to be Walmart.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:34):

I'm colorblind, I apologize. And was the geolocation data consistent with the devices stopping in the parking lot of Walmart for a period of time?

Mark Sanders (01:12:42):

Yes, they were in the parking lot of Walmart.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:52):

From this point of leaving Walmart, where is the next location they go to?

Mark Sanders (01:12:56):

I believe from here they go to the Schultz Corporation.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:12:58):

Pausing at 14 [inaudible 01:15:19] animation. Real time, 5/20/23 [inaudible 01:15:23].

(01:12:58)
... in this animation is a green thumbtack?

Mark Sanders (01:12:58):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:32):

And what is that depicting?

Mark Sanders (01:15:33):

So that's going to be the Schultz Corporation 101 North Riverside in Terryville.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:38):

And for the remainder of the [inaudible 01:15:40], do the cell phones stay in that same general area?

Mark Sanders (01:15:43):

Yes, with the exception of Sophie's device briefly for a few minutes goes across the street to 110 North Riverside.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:52):

We can resume.

Mark Sanders (01:15:58):

That was it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:15:59):

So I would ask [inaudible 01:16:03] bring up animation two, and while he's doing that, between the time period of these two, is the cell phone location data of both devices generally consistent with them remaining at the Schultz Corporation?

Mark Sanders (01:16:13):

Yes, or that address I specified across the street.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:15):

And that was for how long?

Mark Sanders (01:16:17):

Three or four minutes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:23):

And we can pause at the beginning. And can you just explain to the jury what we're seeing here in this initial frame?

Mark Sanders (01:16:26):

This is the entire path of travel. This is showing all of the server points for both devices.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:32):

And what is located at the bottom left of that?

Mark Sanders (01:16:36):

It's going to be the key specific to this animation. It's a little different.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:39):

Does it again depict defendant Cooper Ouellette's geolocation spots in blue and Sophie's in pink?

Mark Sanders (01:16:47):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:48):

And there are different areas of interest by different colored thumbtacks?

Mark Sanders (01:16:52):

Correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:53):

And is the top left that same real-time listing?

Mark Sanders (01:16:56):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:16:56):

And if we could begin. And we just saw some road signs populate on this animation. How did you populate those road signs?

Mark Sanders (01:17:27):

I was provided those road signs, the locations of them, and specifically what they say by Detective Slaiby.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:17:33):

And how was that information provided in terms of geolocation?

Mark Sanders (01:17:36):

It was provided as a latitude and longitude typically, and often a picture of the actual sign itself.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:17:43):

And are those accurate to the signs that are located in the areas?

Mark Sanders (01:17:46):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:19:35):

Pausing the animation here at 2:26. Real time, 5/20/23 11:24:11 PM, to 5/20/23 11:24:30 PM. Earlier in your testimony, we talked about this deviation onto Locust Road. Is that what's being depicted here?

Mark Sanders (01:19:51):

So yes, that's going to be the turn left onto Locust Road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:19:55):

And did you depict a thumbtack in the area of Locust Road you deemed an area of interest?

Mark Sanders (01:20:00):

I did, and it's a little bit further up.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:20:02):

And why did you add the thumbtack to that area of interest?

Mark Sanders (01:20:07):

Because there was a separation of the devices and largely stopping on Locust Road, which I felt was of interest.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:20:15):

And you had mentioned that video file and the location, sorry, the time data from that file?

Mark Sanders (01:20:20):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:20:20):

Did you insert it into the animation corresponding to the real time of that video being recorded?

Mark Sanders (01:20:26):

I did, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:20:27):

Can we resume playing please? So we're pausing here at 2:55. Real time, 5/20/23 11:24:37, to 5/20/23 11:24:41. Is this the area where we're about to see that video?

Mark Sanders (01:21:19):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:23:56):

Can we resume please? Pausing the video at 5:23 in the animation. Real time, 5/20/23 11:25:43, to 5/20/23 11:25:47. See some text messages displayed here?

Mark Sanders (01:24:07):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:24:08):

Are those text messages that you reviewed from the extraction of Sophie's cell phone?

Mark Sanders (01:24:12):

Yes, they are.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:24:13):

And did you add them at this time because this is when the cell phone says they were sent?

Mark Sanders (01:24:17):

Correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:24:19):

And what did they say?

Mark Sanders (01:24:20):

They say, "Alysa, I'm saved." And second to that, "Scared."

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:26:26):

You can resume. At this point, did the phones begin co-locating again?

Mark Sanders (01:26:28):

It appears so, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:26:29):

Did they then begin to travel at speeds consistent with being in a vehicle?

Mark Sanders (01:26:44):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:26:52):

As we approached 11:27 PM, did you begin seeing deviations in the data between these phones?

Mark Sanders (01:26:56):

I did. We saw there Mr. Ouellette's device was west of Sophie's device.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:02):

And were those data points corresponding to higher horizontal inaccuracies that you described?

Mark Sanders (01:27:07):

Yes, for Sophie's device.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:10):

What can cause those higher horizontal inaccuracies?

Mark Sanders (01:27:13):

It's largely going to be lack of GPS fix.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:16):

And how long does that anomaly period last?

Mark Sanders (01:27:19):

So we're just passing the anomaly period. I would call what I was just discussing a deviation.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:27):

And how long does that period last?

Mark Sanders (01:27:28):

The deviation?

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:29):

Yes.

Mark Sanders (01:27:29):

A matter of seconds.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:31):

About how many data points?

Mark Sanders (01:27:32):

I would say seven or eight.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:34):

About out of how many that you plotted?

Mark Sanders (01:27:36):

Hundreds.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:39):

And did that area of inaccuracy concern you about the remaining geolocation point data?

Mark Sanders (01:27:45):

Specifically the anomalous data with Sophie's device?

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:49):

Yes.

Mark Sanders (01:27:50):

For the remainder, no.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:27:52):

Did you look to corroborate future data points via surveillance footage?

Mark Sanders (01:27:55):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:28:45):

And we're pausing the video at 9:33 into the animation. Real time... Sorry, now we're at 9:34 into the animation. Real time, 5/20/23 11:31:44 to, 5/20/23 11:32:42. There's a letter B displayed on that screen. What does that relate to?

Mark Sanders (01:29:03):

So that pin is going to be the south side of Country Storage.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:08):

And was surveillance footage from Country Storage provided to you for your review?

Mark Sanders (01:29:14):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:14):

And did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:29:15):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:16):

Did you locate a vehicle resembling the defendant's traveling by that surveillance footage?

Mark Sanders (01:29:21):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:22):

And were you aware of a time delay in the internal clock on that video?

Mark Sanders (01:29:27):

I'm aware of it. I just don't remember it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:29):

Did you document that in your report?

Mark Sanders (01:29:30):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:31):

Would reviewing that report help to refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (01:29:33):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:34):

If you saw.

Mark Sanders (01:29:54):

Okay.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:56):

Has that helped to refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (01:29:57):

It did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:29:58):

And what was the delay you were informed of?

Mark Sanders (01:29:59):

Five minutes and 46 seconds fast.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:30:02):

And when you added the video to the animation, did you put it in as, what, the clock of... The internal clock of that video display or the correction based upon what you were given by state police?

Mark Sanders (01:30:11):

The corrected time.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:30:11):

We can resume. There's a yellow thumbtack displayed on the screen here. What building is that?

Mark Sanders (01:30:45):

That is going to be Countryside Pizza.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:30:47):

Was the GPS data consistent with the devices stopping in the area of Countryside Pizza for a period of time?

Mark Sanders (01:30:53):

Yes, briefly.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:18):

And we're stopping it at 10:36 into the animation. Real time, 5/20/23 11:33:43, to 5/20/23 11:34:18. The letter C is displayed. What building does that relate to?

Mark Sanders (01:31:32):

That is Hogan Cider Mill.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:33):

And were you provided surveillance footage from Hogan Cider Mill by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (01:31:38):

Yes, I was.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:38):

Did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:31:39):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:40):

Did you locate video resembling the defendant's truck passing by that business?

Mark Sanders (01:31:43):

I did, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:44):

And did you add that clip to this animation?

Mark Sanders (01:31:45):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:31:48):

And if we could resume play, please. Pausing at 10:54. Real time is covered by the clip of the video, but at 10:54 into the animation, was the GPS location data consistent with the car taking a right turn onto Johnnycake Mountain Road in the area of this video?

Mark Sanders (01:32:27):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:32:27):

And did you see a flashing light consistent with a blinker in that footage?

Mark Sanders (01:32:33):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:32:33):

Can we resume? Pausing at 11:13 into the animation. Real time, 5/20/23 11:34:32, to 5/20/23 11:35:02. There is a letter D over a building. What residence does that relate to?

Mark Sanders (01:33:19):

So that is 65 Johnnycake Mountain Road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:33:22):

And were you provided surveillance footage of 65 Johnnycake Mountain Road by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (01:33:26):

Yes, I was.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:33:27):

Did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:33:28):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:33:28):

Did you locate video resembling the defendant's truck passing by that location?

Mark Sanders (01:33:32):

Yes, I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:33:33):

And did you add that to the animation?

Mark Sanders (01:33:34):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:33:35):

And did the internal clock on that video coincide with the phone's geolocation data showing them moving by that residence?

Mark Sanders (01:33:41):

Yes, it appeared to be real time from what I recall.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:34:17):

Resume, please. Pausing at 11:34 from the animation. 5/20/23 11:34:32, to 5/20/23 11:35:02. Letter E is circled in that building. What building does that relate to?

Mark Sanders (01:34:30):

That is 70 Johnnycake Mountain Road.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:34:32):

And were you provided surveillance footage from 70 Johnnycake Mountain Road by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (01:34:36):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:34:37):

Did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:34:38):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:34:38):

And did you locate video of a vehicle resembling the defendant's truck passing by that residence?

Mark Sanders (01:34:42):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:34:43):

And did you add that video to the animation?

Mark Sanders (01:34:44):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:36:05):

Can you resume please? And during this area of the animation where the roads decrease from right to left, at the bottom, is there any indication of GPS data that the device is stopped?

Mark Sanders (01:36:14):

Not yet.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:36:15):

Are they traveling in excess of 50 miles an hour at that point?

Mark Sanders (01:36:18):

Correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:09):

Stopping at 11:36:46 in the animation. Real time, 5/20/2023 11:36:22, to 5/20/23 11:36:27. In the bottom left corner, is there an F that's been circled?

Mark Sanders (01:37:22):

There is.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:23):

And what building is that?

Mark Sanders (01:37:24):

I believe that's 6 Fieldview Drive.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:27):

And were you provided surveillance footage from 6 Fieldview Drive by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (01:37:31):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:31):

Did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:37:32):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:33):

Did you locate multiple instances of a vehicle resembling the defendant's truck passing by that surveillance footage?

Mark Sanders (01:37:38):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:39):

And did you add those videos to the animation?

Mark Sanders (01:37:41):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:42):

And in those clips where the vehicle resembling the defendant's truck can be seen, are the times of the interval on that clock consistent with the GPS data?

Mark Sanders (01:37:51):

From what I recall, correct.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:37:52):

We can resume.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:39:00):

Is the geolocation data consistent with the devices taking left onto Fieldview there?

Mark Sanders (01:39:16):

No.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:39:17):

Did they continue straight on Polly Dan?

Mark Sanders (01:39:18):

They did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:39:18):

Stopping at 15:46 in the animation, 5/20/23, 11:37:05 through 5/20/23 at 11:37:36. Is the geolocation data consistent with the devices turning into the driveway of 28 Fieldview Drive at this point?

Mark Sanders (01:40:20):

No.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:40:21):

And is 28 Fieldview Drive depicted with a white thumb tack in this animation?

Mark Sanders (01:40:25):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:40:26):

And does the geolocation data from both devices pass by 28 Fieldview Drive at 11:37 PM?

Mark Sanders (01:40:33):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:40:34):

[inaudible 01:40:35]. We can pause. There was a letter G that was circled. What building was that related to?

Mark Sanders (01:40:54):

That was related, I believe, to 29 Fieldview or 28. Apologies.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:02):

We're pausing at 15:53 of the animation. 5/20/23, 11:37:25, and 5/20/23, 11:37:55 PM. I'm sorry, that letter G related to what building?

Mark Sanders (01:41:14):

I believe it was 29 Fieldview.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:16):

And were you provided surveillance footage from 29 Fieldview by the Connecticut State Police?

Mark Sanders (01:41:20):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:20):

And did you review that video?

Mark Sanders (01:41:22):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:22):

Did you locate a timestamp on that video?

Mark Sanders (01:41:24):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:25):

And was the timestamp and a subtitle to that video?

Mark Sanders (01:41:29):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:30):

And were you able to present that timestamp in these video files?

Mark Sanders (01:41:33):

Yes, in VLC.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:35):

And did you locate multiple instances of a vehicle resembling the defendant's truck passing by that surveillance footage?

Mark Sanders (01:41:40):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:41):

And did you add those videos to the animation when they passed by?

Mark Sanders (01:41:44):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:45):

And did the time located in that video footage match the geolocation date at time of passing that residence?

Mark Sanders (01:41:51):

I believe so, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:41:52):

Resume please. See the truck here taking the left onto Polly Dan? Was that consistent with the geolocation data?

Mark Sanders (01:42:31):

That was, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:42:32):

And shortly after that left onto Polly Dan, did the cell phones appear where they stopped?

Mark Sanders (01:42:37):

Yes. And I also want to clarify the subtitle was 6 Fieldview. It was not-

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:42:43):

6 Fieldview.

Mark Sanders (01:42:44):

It was not 29.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:45:23):

Pause there. Pausing at 19:16, partially [inaudible 01:45:24] 5/20/23 11:38:20. There's two screenshots that are depicted at this point. Referring to that Snap Map over there on the right, does that depict where those photos interacted with the Snap application?

Mark Sanders (01:45:44):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:45:46):

And the photo on the left lists the time in it. Does that time and location from that Snap Map on the right coincide with Sophie's phone's geolocation data?

Mark Sanders (01:45:57):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:45:59):

And so when the phone data says it stopped at that wooded area at the same time and location, that dark photo being put into Snapchat?

Mark Sanders (01:46:06):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:46:07):

Okay. We're going to resume. Pause here. Pausing at 19:58, animation 5/20/23, 11:40:12 to 5/20/23, 11:40: 42. Is the cell phone geolocation data consistent with the reaching the end of Polly Dan and making a left onto Fieldview?

Mark Sanders (01:47:12):

No, it's consistent with taking a U-turn.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:47:14):

And it travels in what direction?

Mark Sanders (01:47:16):

North on Polly Dan.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:47:19):

We resume. Pausing at 21:19. Real time, 5/20/23, 11:41:35 to 5/20/23, 11:41:41. Is the driveway to Sophie's residence depicted in this photograph?

Mark Sanders (01:49:00):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:49:01):

And is the geolocation data consistent with that vehicle those devices making a left turn into the driveway at this point?

Mark Sanders (01:49:08):

No, continuing straight.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:49:09):

Did you locate video footage from Sophie's residence that depicts the headlights of that vehicle moving past the area at this time?

Mark Sanders (01:49:17):

What we believe to be the headlights, yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:49:18):

Can we resume? Pause. Pausing at 21:54. Real time [inaudible 01:50:01] 5/20/23, 11:41:40. What is displayed in this?

Mark Sanders (01:50:06):

This was a collision analysis and reconstruction map overview that I was provided from the Connecticut State Police.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:50:14):

At the request of my office, did you redact the information to add this to your animation?

Mark Sanders (01:50:18):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:50:20):

And why did you add the scene map at this point in the animation?

Mark Sanders (01:50:23):

Because the scene map becomes relevant in relation to the geolocation data that we are about to see.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:50:30):

And is the cell phone location data coming up consistent with a separation event happening at this time?

Mark Sanders (01:50:37):

It is consistent with the devices stopping in the area of this incident map.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:50:46):

And you placed a red line on Fieldview Drive at this point. What does that depict?

Mark Sanders (01:50:51):

That depicts the leftmost arrow is going to be the hair clip as we see here. The rightmost arrow is going to be the blue cross transfer mark, and there's going to be a straight line that just connects the two.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:07):

And how were you able to add those precise locations to your animation?

Mark Sanders (01:51:12):

So as part of the reconstruction, they get precise coordinates for all of these points, and I took the outermost points as what I was mapping.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:24):

And as the devices travel through that scene, do the devices then stop?

Mark Sanders (01:51:31):

They do.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:32):

And once stopped, does Sophie's device remain stationary for a period of time or continue moving?

Mark Sanders (01:51:37):

It remains stationary for quite a while.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:40):

And did you discover surveillance footage during that time period?

Mark Sanders (01:51:44):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:45):

What did you discover?

Mark Sanders (01:51:46):

There was static images from a surveillance video on the rear of 29 Fieldview.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:52):

And what, if anything, did you do with that footage?

Mark Sanders (01:51:55):

It's input at the relevant times as we're working our way through.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:51:58):

And when you reviewed that surveillance footage, was it recording an event and progressing second by second of the recorded video?

Mark Sanders (01:52:07):

No.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:52:08):

What was displayed in that screen recording?

Mark Sanders (01:52:10):

A static image.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:52:11):

And it was screenshots taken at various intervals?

Mark Sanders (01:52:14):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:52:15):

And were those times displayed in those intervals?

Mark Sanders (01:52:17):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:52:19):

Did you add those screenshots to the [inaudible 01:52:22] when they occurred in real time?

Mark Sanders (01:52:22):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:56:13):

Can we resume please? Pause here. [inaudible 01:56:17] animation 5/20/23, 11:48:42 to 5/20/23, 11:49:12 At this point, is the geolocation information from Sophie's device consistent with it beginning traveling again?

Mark Sanders (01:56:32):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:56:33):

About how long was it stationary?

Mark Sanders (01:56:35):

About eight minutes, I believe.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:56:39):

And as the devices approached the intersection with Polly Dan here, is it consistent with stopping, turning around in that U-turn fashion, and going back to Sophie's residence?

Mark Sanders (01:56:51):

It is not.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:56:52):

What is it consistent with?

Mark Sanders (01:56:53):

Taking a right on the Polly Dan and doing the full loop.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:56:56):

And did the video surveillance at 6 and 29 Fieldview corroborate that information?

Mark Sanders (01:57:01):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:57:01):

And did you insert that into the animation?

Mark Sanders (01:57:03):

I did.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:57:04):

And does the video of 29 Fieldview depict that vehicle turning into Sophie's driveway?

Mark Sanders (01:57:07):

I do not recall.

Judge Chris Pelosi (01:57:07):

Okay, resume.

Speaker 7 (01:57:07):

Sorry. [inaudible 02:00:43].

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:15):

As we watched Cooper Ouellette back his truck up that driveway, was the cell phone geolocation data consistent with that movement?

Mark Sanders (02:04:23):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:04:23):

Specifically Sophie's device, was it consistent with being in that truck making that movement?

Mark Sanders (02:04:27):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:34):

We saw Cooper Ouellette on foot at that point. Was the data from Sophie's device consistent with that movement where Cooper Ouellette was moving?

Mark Sanders (02:07:43):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:07:51):

From this point forward, do Sophie and Cooper's phone co-locate anyone?

Mark Sanders (02:07:56):

No, they separate.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:21):

Where does Sophie's device travel to?

Mark Sanders (02:08:23):

Bristol Hospital.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:25):

Where does Cooper's device travel to?

Mark Sanders (02:08:27):

To his residence.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:28):

Were you able to locate geolocation data consistent with Cooper Ouellette's path to travel home?

Mark Sanders (02:08:34):

Yes, from the trip file specifically.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:08:36):

And did you have geolocation data of him arriving at home?

Mark Sanders (02:08:41):

It was the end point of the trip file, yeah.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:09:52):

What time did the geolocation data show Cooper arriving home?

Mark Sanders (02:09:55):

I believe it was 12:24 AM.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:10:09):

I have nothing further, Judge.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:10:11):

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a 15-minute recess. We'll be back at a nice stretch. Please leave the notebooks on the chair.

Speaker 8 (02:25:00):

Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:25:01):

Afternoon, everybody. Have a seat. Thank you.

Speaker 8 (02:25:01):

Members of the jury [inaudible 02:25:08]

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:27:12):

All right. Will the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?

Speaker 9 (02:27:14):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:27:15):

All right, have a seat. Thank you gentlemen.

(02:27:15)
Attorney Raad.

Attorney Raad (02:27:29):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:27:29):

You're welcome.

Attorney Raad (02:27:31):

Morning, Mr. Sanders.

Mark Sanders (02:27:32):

Good afternoon, sir. It is afternoon, I think.

Attorney Raad (02:27:36):

With all due respect, you're not a doctor, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:27:40):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:27:41):

Okay.

(02:27:41)
And you're also not an accident reconstructionist?

Mark Sanders (02:27:43):

I am not, no.

Attorney Raad (02:27:45):

Your Cellebrite training consisted of a one-day Cellebrite reader course and then a three-day course, is that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:27:51):

Followed by a certification, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:27:52):

Okay. But roughly consisted about four days?

Mark Sanders (02:27:55):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:27:56):

And you don't do phone extractions yourself, do you?

Mark Sanders (02:27:59):

I do not.

Attorney Raad (02:28:01):

You don't do programming either?

Mark Sanders (02:28:02):

I don't, no.

Attorney Raad (02:28:04):

In about 700 cases in your career, this was the first one using Life360, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:28:09):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:28:11):

You've never testified about Life360 before this case, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:28:15):

Before this case, no.

Attorney Raad (02:28:16):

And you would agree with me that Life360 is a consumer app?

Mark Sanders (02:28:20):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:28:21):

Right. It isn't designed for forensic measuring, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:28:25):

It's not its intention, no.

Attorney Raad (02:28:26):

Right. It's not what it was designed for?

Mark Sanders (02:28:27):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:28:29):

And it's not designed for accident reconstruction, would you agree?

Mark Sanders (02:28:31):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:28:33):

It's not designed for law enforcement, would you agree?

Mark Sanders (02:28:36):

It's not designed for law enforcement as the customer, no.

Attorney Raad (02:28:38):

So you agree?

Mark Sanders (02:28:39):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:28:39):

All right.

(02:28:40)
And it's not calibrated or certified like police radar or laser is, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:28:46):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:28:47):

Okay.

(02:28:49)
And it's only as good as what the phone gives it. Do you agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:28:52):

Absolutely.

Attorney Raad (02:28:53):

So garbage in, garbage out?

Mark Sanders (02:28:56):

Yeah. Absolutely, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:28:56):

And it's not as good as GPS directly from the truck, is it?

Mark Sanders (02:29:02):

There was no GPS in the truck.

Attorney Raad (02:29:04):

It's not as accurate as GPS from a vehicle. Would you agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:29:10):

It absolutely can be at its best, but it can also be less than.

Attorney Raad (02:29:13):

So it's your testimony that Life360s can be more accurate than GPS?

Mark Sanders (02:29:19):

Because it uses GPS, it can be as accurate as a separate GPS device.

Attorney Raad (02:29:25):

Life360 publishes no error rates, do they?

Mark Sanders (02:29:28):

They do not publish any, no.

Attorney Raad (02:29:31):

And isn't it true that the accuracy of speed and location information is not designed nor intended to be provided to traffic authorities or for any other matters that may require proof of speed or location? Isn't that true?

Speaker 10 (02:29:43):

Objection. This was decided in the pretrial hearing, Judge.

Attorney Raad (02:29:52):

No one wants to track.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:52):

What's your objection?

Speaker 10 (02:29:53):

Can we approach?

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:29:53):

Yes. That objection's overruled. You can ask the question.

Attorney Raad (02:30:16):

Mr. Sanders, isn't it true that the accuracy of speed and location information is not designed nor intended to be provided to traffic authorities or for any other matters that may require proof of speed or location? Isn't that true?

Mark Sanders (02:30:29):

My understanding is that's Life360's legal disclaimer.

Attorney Raad (02:30:34):

Okay. So isn't that true?

Mark Sanders (02:30:36):

That's my understanding, yes, that that is their disclaimer.

Attorney Raad (02:30:39):

Okay.

(02:30:44)
I'm going to show you what's been pre-marked as Defense Exhibit A.

Mark Sanders (02:31:04):

Okay.

Attorney Raad (02:31:04):

Can you take a look at that document, please?

Mark Sanders (02:31:05):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:31:06):

And tell me what you see.

Mark Sanders (02:31:31):

So I see a lot of things. It's telling the users to enable all-

Speaker 10 (02:31:36):

Object to reading from the document not in evidence.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:31:38):

Right. That's sustained.

Attorney Raad (02:31:41):

You recognize that document?

Mark Sanders (02:31:42):

I don't.

Attorney Raad (02:31:43):

You don't recognize this document?

Mark Sanders (02:31:44):

I've never seen that before, no.

Attorney Raad (02:31:46):

Do you remember testifying at a previous hearing?

Mark Sanders (02:31:49):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:31:49):

Did you ever see that document then?

Mark Sanders (02:31:52):

I don't recall.

Attorney Raad (02:31:54):

Take a look at it. Does it refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:31:57):

It does not. The general words on it I understand to be the case, but I don't remember seeing this specific document.

Attorney Raad (02:32:04):

You never saw this document on the Life360 website?

Mark Sanders (02:32:08):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:32:09):

You don't remember this document being used in this very courtroom?

Mark Sanders (02:32:11):

I don't.

Attorney Raad (02:32:12):

Did you ever read this document before?

Mark Sanders (02:32:16):

I don't believe I have read that document, no.

Attorney Raad (02:32:29):

Mr. Sanders, you can't tell this jury the speed of Cooper's truck at the moment Sophie left it, can you?

Mark Sanders (02:32:35):

Because I don't know when she left it, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

Attorney Raad (02:32:38):

Respectfully speaking, it's just yes or no.

Mark Sanders (02:32:41):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:32:43):

Okay. Because Cooper's phone had no data from 11:38 to 11:49, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:32:47):

That is correct.

Attorney Raad (02:32:49):

Okay. So you used Sophie's phone?

Mark Sanders (02:32:51):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:32:52):

A phone you can't place in the truck at that second, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:32:56):

Correct, I can't.

Attorney Raad (02:32:58):

And Sophie's phone doesn't record speed in those points, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:33:02):

It does on some, but not on all because I had sample points turned on.

Attorney Raad (02:33:06):

Okay. I'm just asking yes or no, does Sophie's phone record speed during that time of 11:38 to 11:49?

Mark Sanders (02:33:12):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:33:12):

And you calculated that?

Mark Sanders (02:33:16):

Again, we're talking about the difference between server and sample. I calculated sample. The phone gave us the speed for the server points.

Attorney Raad (02:33:23):

And so you calculated with regard to that?

Mark Sanders (02:33:27):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:33:28):

All right. With a method you used exactly one time in your career?

Mark Sanders (02:33:32):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:33:33):

Tested once in your Tesla a year later with a different iPhone, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:33:37):

That is correct.

Attorney Raad (02:33:39):

From an app whose maker says that its speeds may be inaccurate, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:33:44):

That is what the app says, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:33:46):

Did you design the app?

Mark Sanders (02:33:47):

I did not.

Attorney Raad (02:34:01):

Mr. Sanders, Life360 tracks a phone, not a vehicle. Would you agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:34:05):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:34:06):

And if the phone is out of the truck, you're tracking the phone basically, right?

Mark Sanders (02:34:10):

It's always tracking the phone, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:34:11):

Okay.

(02:34:11)
So if it's out of the truck, you're not tracking the truck, you'd agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:34:15):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:34:15):

All right.

(02:34:16)
Cooper's phone has no Life360 data from 11:38:23 to 11:49:21 PM, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:34:24):

That is correct.

Attorney Raad (02:34:25):

So for the moment Sophie left the truck, the only data is from Sophie's phone, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:34:31):

Until later on, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:34:33):

And you don't know whether her phone was in her hand or in her pocket or the truck at that moment, do you?

Mark Sanders (02:34:39):

I have no knowledge, no.

Attorney Raad (02:34:41):

For that 11-minute window, you can't give truck speed ... Sorry. You can give truck speed only if we're presuming that the phones were in the truck?

Mark Sanders (02:34:48):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:34:48):

So you don't know that?

Mark Sanders (02:34:50):

I do not know that.

Attorney Raad (02:34:50):

And you agreed previously that another vehicle could come into play?

Mark Sanders (02:34:56):

It's possible.

Attorney Raad (02:34:58):

And Sophie's phone never reached Life360 servers that night because her app couldn't connect to the internet, isn't that true?

Mark Sanders (02:35:04):

Partially. Some points, yes, partially.

Attorney Raad (02:35:09):

So no Life360 server ever recorded or filtered those points?

Mark Sanders (02:35:13):

I can't say that.

Attorney Raad (02:35:18):

Have you ever reviewed Detective Bronson's accident reconstruction report?

Mark Sanders (02:35:22):

I don't believe so. Not the entire thing.

Attorney Raad (02:35:24):

Are you aware of the speeds he cited in that report?

Mark Sanders (02:35:27):

I am not.

Attorney Raad (02:35:28):

Your animation speeds come from what you call sample points, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:35:32):

A mixture of server points and sample points.

Attorney Raad (02:35:35):

Sample points and server points are NESPIN's labels. There's no indication that Life360 officially recognizes them, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:35:41):

For sample points, they do. They list it in the log file as sample points.

Attorney Raad (02:35:46):

Isn't it true sample points that Life360 uses are raw points and that Life360 filters them?

Mark Sanders (02:35:52):

Yes, they do.

Attorney Raad (02:35:54):

So Life360 filters them, not you?

Mark Sanders (02:35:57):

Correct. Well, I did, but for the [inaudible 02:36:01] of the program.

Attorney Raad (02:36:01):

And sample points contain no speed, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:36:04):

Sample points do not contain speed, correct.

Attorney Raad (02:36:06):

You calculated speed yourself, the distance between two points divided by the seconds between them, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:36:11):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:36:12):

So each number is an average over as much as four seconds, not a speed at an instant. Do you agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:36:18):

Yes.

‍

Attorney Raad (02:36:20):

At 15 miles per hour, the vehicle covers about 88 feet in four seconds, would you agree?

Mark Sanders (02:36:28):

Approximately, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:36:31):

And they were decoded by NESPIN programmer Evan Garcia, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:36:34):

That's accurate.

Attorney Raad (02:36:36):

And you relied on what he did?

Mark Sanders (02:36:38):

I did.

Attorney Raad (02:36:39):

And in May 2024, you measured distance with the log co-signs, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:36:43):

I did.

Attorney Raad (02:36:44):

And you said that the method is more limited at very tight locations. Do you recall that?

Mark Sanders (02:36:49):

That is true, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:36:50):

And you switched to a different method for your 2026 report after we challenged your work, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:36:58):

That is correct, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:37:02):

And I know you've only worked with Life360 one time with regard to a case like this, but you tested your calculations once in one test drive in Massachusetts, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:37:11):

That is accurate, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:37:12):

In your Tesla, not a 2013 Chevy Silverado?

Mark Sanders (02:37:15):

That is correct.

Attorney Raad (02:37:17):

With an iPhone 15 on iOS 17.4.1, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:37:21):

That is also correct, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:37:23):

Not an iPhone 13 like Sophie had?

Mark Sanders (02:37:25):

That is true.

Attorney Raad (02:37:26):

Not on Fieldview Drive?

Mark Sanders (02:37:28):

Also true.

Attorney Raad (02:37:29):

Or Polly Dan Road?

Mark Sanders (02:37:30):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:37:30):

Or Locust Road?

Mark Sanders (02:37:31):

True.

Attorney Raad (02:37:33):

You've never been to those roads, have you?

Mark Sanders (02:37:35):

I have never been there, no.

Attorney Raad (02:37:36):

Day or night?

Mark Sanders (02:37:37):

Never.

Attorney Raad (02:37:39):

And incidentally, was your test ... I'm sorry. Was your test in your Tesla at night or at day or daytime?

Mark Sanders (02:37:44):

It was during the daytime.

Attorney Raad (02:37:46):

Around what time?

Mark Sanders (02:37:47):

I believe it was around noon.

Attorney Raad (02:37:50):

And you read the speedometer by hand off of video second by second, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:37:54):

I did.

Attorney Raad (02:37:56):

You wrote up the testing only a few weeks before the previous hearing three weeks ago at the state's request, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:38:02):

I did, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:38:04):

In about 1,100 seconds driven, about 700 data points that matched, isn't that true?

Mark Sanders (02:38:10):

True.

Attorney Raad (02:38:11):

And with all the data, the error differed fairly dramatically, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:38:15):

With all of the data, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:38:17):

Right. It differed fairly dramatically. Do you recall that?

Mark Sanders (02:38:22):

I would agree with it. I don't know if I recall those words. I might have said them.

Attorney Raad (02:38:26):

If I were to show you a copy of the transcript from that hearing, would that refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:38:29):

Sure.

Attorney Raad (02:39:10):

So they differed fairly ... I'm sorry. Did that refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:39:12):

It did.

Attorney Raad (02:39:13):

So they differed fairly dramatically, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:39:15):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:39:20):

Even after you threw out every point with accuracy, worse than five meters, only 67.3% or within one mile per hour, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:39:28):

Correct, within one mile per hour.

Attorney Raad (02:39:30):

A third were off by more than one mile per hour?

Mark Sanders (02:39:33):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:39:34):

And you stopped counting errors at five miles per hour, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:39:41):

Yes, because we had 100%.

Attorney Raad (02:39:43):

Right. Anything worse than that, you never measured. So you can't tell this jury your largest errors, is that correct?

Speaker 10 (02:39:48):

Objection, misstates the testimony.

Attorney Raad (02:39:52):

You never tested anything greater than five miles per hour, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:39:57):

There would be no need to.

Attorney Raad (02:39:58):

Why?

Mark Sanders (02:39:59):

Because we've already accounted for 100%.

Attorney Raad (02:40:01):

In 2024, you wrote the variances ran up to five miles per hour, mostly when associated with significant increases or decreases in speed. Do you recall that?

Mark Sanders (02:40:11):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:12):

The person leaving moving truck and the truck reacting is a significant change in speed, would you agree?

Mark Sanders (02:40:17):

Yeah.

(02:40:18)
Can you ask that question one more time so I answer it correctly?

Attorney Raad (02:40:21):

Sure. The person leaving a moving truck and the truck reacting, that's a significant change in speed. Do you agree? Yes or no?

Mark Sanders (02:40:28):

I would agree, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:30):

Let's talk about the anomalies.

Mark Sanders (02:40:32):

Sure.

Attorney Raad (02:40:32):

Do you recall there being anomalies with regard to this case?

Mark Sanders (02:40:34):

I do, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:36):

So both phones showed movement backwards at more than 250 miles per hour. Do you recall that? Yes or no?

Mark Sanders (02:40:43):

Not exactly.

Attorney Raad (02:40:44):

Do you recall there an anomaly being around 200, 250 miles per hour of the phone moving backwards? Do you recall that?

Mark Sanders (02:40:51):

With Sophie's phone, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:52):

With Sophie's phone?

Mark Sanders (02:40:53):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:53):

Would you classify that as an anomaly?

Mark Sanders (02:40:57):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:40:58):

Is it possible to reverse at a speed of 250 miles per hour?

Mark Sanders (02:41:02):

Not in a vehicle.

Attorney Raad (02:41:04):

And you can't explain it, can you?

Mark Sanders (02:41:06):

I cannot explain it beyond there being a high horizontal accuracy rating. That's all I can explain.

Attorney Raad (02:41:13):

And the anomalous sample points also weren't shown in the animation you just watched, were they?

Mark Sanders (02:41:17):

That's correct.

Attorney Raad (02:41:18):

So the jury never saw that until I just spoke about it, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:41:22):

That's true.

Attorney Raad (02:41:25):

You can't say there were no other anomalies, can you?

Mark Sanders (02:41:29):

I can't definitively say there were no other anomalies.

Attorney Raad (02:41:33):

And you kept no notes of your analysis, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:41:36):

My report acted as my notes. I didn't keep a separate note document.

Attorney Raad (02:41:42):

Isn't it true that accuracy can be affected by a multitude of things with regard to Life360?

Mark Sanders (02:41:47):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:41:49):

Okay. Like weather?

Mark Sanders (02:41:51):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:41:51):

A phone's battery?

Mark Sanders (02:41:54):

At its most extreme, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:41:55):

But it can be, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:41:58):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:41:59):

Okay.

(02:41:59)
What about the other cars or other phones in the area? Can that affect it?

Mark Sanders (02:42:05):

I believe so.

Attorney Raad (02:42:07):

What about the iOS software?

Mark Sanders (02:42:10):

That I don't know.

Attorney Raad (02:42:13):

Okay.

(02:42:13)
Detective Slavey asked you for your work and specified which data lines to plot, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:42:19):

Can you ask that question one more time?

Attorney Raad (02:42:20):

Yeah. Detective Slavey asked you for your work, correct, at some point?

Mark Sanders (02:42:24):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:42:24):

And he specified which data lines to plot?

Mark Sanders (02:42:28):

I'm losing you on which data lines.

Attorney Raad (02:42:31):

Okay.

(02:42:31)
Do you recall him asking you which lines to plot?

Mark Sanders (02:42:35):

I don't.

Attorney Raad (02:42:35):

If I were to show you a copy of the transcript, would that refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:42:40):

Sure.

Attorney Raad (02:42:47):

Withdrawn. Withdrawn.

(02:42:50)
The background information in your report came from the Connecticut State Police, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:42:53):

That's correct, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:42:55):

NESPIN has no direct knowledge of it, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:42:57):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:43:01):

Detective Slavey told you what times to look at in the surveillance videos, is that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:43:08):

Largely from what I recall, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:43:09):

Okay.

(02:43:09)
If I were to show you a copy of the transcript, would that refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:43:12):

Yes.

Speaker 10 (02:43:17):

Thank you.

Mark Sanders (02:43:17):

Okay.

Attorney Raad (02:43:17):

Does that refresh your recollection?

Mark Sanders (02:43:45):

It did.

Attorney Raad (02:43:48):

Okay. So Detective Slavey told you what times to look at at the surveillance videos, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:43:51):

I would still say largely yes.

Attorney Raad (02:43:52):

Okay. So it's a yes?

Mark Sanders (02:43:56):

Not all encompassing. It's somewhere towards yes, but not quite there.

Attorney Raad (02:44:01):

Okay.

(02:44:03)
He gave you the time offsets for videos whose clocks were off, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:44:07):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:44:08):

You didn't calibrate any of those cameras yourself, did you?

Mark Sanders (02:44:11):

I did not.

Attorney Raad (02:44:13):

Before your report, you've never met Detective Slavey, have you?

Mark Sanders (02:44:15):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:44:17):

You talked to him though, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:44:18):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:44:19):

It was all by phone?

Mark Sanders (02:44:21):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:44:23):

And isn't it true that the Connecticut State Police reviewed your draft report and animation before you finalized them?

Mark Sanders (02:44:29):

That is true, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:44:29):

And your report says Connecticut State Police concurs with the way the information was represented. Isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:44:40):

My original report does say that, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:44:43):

You never examined Cooper's phone, did you?

Mark Sanders (02:44:46):

I did not examine the device itself, no.

Attorney Raad (02:44:48):

And you didn't analyze Life360 server points for Cooper's phone, did you?

Mark Sanders (02:44:58):

Can you ask that a little differently?

Attorney Raad (02:44:59):

Did you ever analyze Life360 server points for Cooper's phone?

Mark Sanders (02:44:59):

I did.

Attorney Raad (02:45:02):

But you can't give the jury a margin of error for ...

Attorney Raad (02:45:02):

But you can't give the jury a margin of error for Cooper's phone that night, can you? Yes or no?

Mark Sanders (02:45:10):

It's apples and oranges. No. No.

Attorney Raad (02:45:14):

So it's a no?

Mark Sanders (02:45:16):

It's a no.

Attorney Raad (02:45:18):

Okay. Were you ever asked to?

Mark Sanders (02:45:21):

No.

Attorney Raad (02:45:24):

Would you agree that the best source, the iPhone's cache locations, that that's the best source? Would you agree with that?

Mark Sanders (02:45:31):

That is the best source in my opinion.

Attorney Raad (02:45:32):

Okay. And that wasn't available to the Connecticut State Police, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:45:38):

As far as I know, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:45:38):

They never did a full file system extraction, did they?

Attorney Clifton (02:45:41):

Objection. Misstates the testimony. It would be heard.

Attorney Raad (02:45:44):

It's a question.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:45:44):

You may be heard. Approach. Last question's withdrawn, ladies and gentlemen.

Attorney Raad (02:46:21):

You only analyzed what Detective Slaiby gave you, correct?

Mark Sanders (02:46:24):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (02:46:28):

And isn't it true that the Connecticut State Police asked NESPIN for a video animation that incorporates surveillance video, text messages, Snapchat media and witness testimony? Isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (02:46:38):

Originally, yes.

Attorney Raad (02:46:39):

All right. Do you recall seeing on that animation a text message by Sophie's mother?

Mark Sanders (02:46:46):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (02:46:47):

All right. Isn't it true that there was also a text message where Sophie's mother was concerned about her drinking that night?

Attorney Clifton (02:46:52):

Objection. We need to be heard outside the process at this point. This is not a full exhibit and he knows that. It's been redacted.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:47:01):

All right.

(02:47:01)
(silence)

Speaker 11 (02:47:01):

Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:59:38):

Good afternoon, everybody. All right. We met in chambers relative to the last question posed by Attorney Raad, and I believe it's going to be withdrawn. Is that correct, Attorney?

Attorney Raad (02:59:46):

Correct, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (02:59:47):

All right. Attorney Clifton, do you want to make a record?

Attorney Clifton (02:59:48):

Yes, Your Honor. The question was attempting to impeach the witness as to what was or was not included in the animation, which is fundamentally unfair given that things removed from the animation were at the request of the state by agreement of the parties. So to impeach him upon what was removed by agreement of the parties is fundamentally unfair. I'm asking that the court sustain the state's objection, and strike the question in any answer that happened, and that the attorney not ask any further questions about what was or was not included.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:00:19):

Well, I think Attorney Raad agreed to that in chambers and I'll sustain the objection. I don't believe there was an answer. Bring in the jury. All right. Will the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?

Attorney Clifton (03:02:08):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:02:10):

All right. Have a seat, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, that last objection was sustained by the court. Attorney Raad?

Attorney Raad (03:02:23):

Mr. Sanders, you rejected Sophie's AT&T location records as not reliable because they showed some events occurring in multiple locations at the same time. Isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (03:02:31):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:02:35):

Do you recall that text message from your animation that says, "I'm saved," and then "Scared?"

Mark Sanders (03:02:40):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:02:42):

Was that at 11:25 PM?

Mark Sanders (03:02:45):

I would have to look again, but it sounds correct.

Attorney Raad (03:02:47):

Okay. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it showed that Cooper was away from Sophie at that time?

Mark Sanders (03:02:53):

Yes, it was, during that time.

Attorney Raad (03:02:54):

All right. For how long would you say he was away from Sophie at that time?

Mark Sanders (03:02:59):

Without reviewing it, I want to say somewhere in the realm of two minutes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:02):

All right. And that's the same time we saw the video of her exiting his truck, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:03:05):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:06):

Okay. And do you remember seeing that animation where that pink dot was? Do you remember that?

Mark Sanders (03:03:13):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:14):

Do you recall seeing it on the side of the road?

Mark Sanders (03:03:16):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:17):

Do you recall seeing it briefly in the woods?

Mark Sanders (03:03:20):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:20):

Okay. Do you know what time... What time of day was that?

Mark Sanders (03:03:24):

Evening.

Attorney Raad (03:03:24):

Evening. Around 11 at night, almost midnight, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:03:27):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:28):

So she's alone, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:03:29):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:30):

And Cooper's away?

Mark Sanders (03:03:32):

Devices, they're separated, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:34):

All right. And at some point, does he come back?

Mark Sanders (03:03:36):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:03:37):

All right. So isn't it consistent that that text was sent as he came back or while he was coming back?

Mark Sanders (03:03:46):

I don't know that. I just know it was sent while the devices were separated.

Attorney Raad (03:03:49):

Okay. While she was alone in the woods on the side of the road?

Mark Sanders (03:03:53):

That's speculating what she was doing, but her device was off to the side of the road. It was what it appeared.

Attorney Raad (03:04:01):

You just testified that you saw her, and you agreed with me, on the side of the road at night, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:04:06):

I saw her device having points on the side of the road, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:04:10):

Her device, right. And you threw out AT&T for that reason, but you kept Life360 and they both have errors, isn't that correct?

Mark Sanders (03:04:22):

It wasn't only that reason that I got rid of the AT&T, but yes, both had errors in some manner.

Attorney Raad (03:04:32):

Okay. And you haven't been to Polydan Road, have you?

Mark Sanders (03:04:33):

No.

Attorney Raad (03:04:34):

All right. So you can't tell us if there's lines on the road?

Mark Sanders (03:04:36):

I can't.

Attorney Raad (03:04:37):

What about FieldView? Can you tell us if there's lines on the road?

Mark Sanders (03:04:40):

No.

Attorney Raad (03:04:41):

Can you tell us how wide the road is?

Mark Sanders (03:04:44):

No.

Attorney Raad (03:04:44):

And at 11:38:47, do you recall seeing Cooper's truck on the animation?

Mark Sanders (03:04:53):

38:47... You'd have to show it to me again.

Attorney Raad (03:04:54):

Do you recall seeing Cooper's truck with a blinking light at some point?

Mark Sanders (03:04:57):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:04:58):

Okay. Isn't that consistent with a turn signal?

Mark Sanders (03:05:01):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:05:05):

You testified that Cooper did a full loop turning, taking a right up Polydan after Sophie separated from the vehicle, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:05:14):

Correct.

Attorney Raad (03:05:16):

Do you know how fast he was going up that road?

Mark Sanders (03:05:19):

Not off the top of my head, no.

Attorney Raad (03:05:20):

Do you recall it being almost 50 miles per hour?

Mark Sanders (03:05:23):

That sounds correct, that it was relatively fast for the area.

Attorney Raad (03:05:26):

All right. So Sophie exits from the vehicle, she's back in the truck, and he's speeding, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:05:32):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:05:32):

He's speeding to get her home, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:05:34):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:05:35):

And you've never been to the scene, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:05:38):

No.

Attorney Raad (03:05:38):

Have you ever driven the make and model of Cooper's truck?

Mark Sanders (03:05:42):

No.

Attorney Raad (03:05:43):

Can you tell us that you don't know the turn radius of a truck like that, do you?

Mark Sanders (03:05:47):

Driven an F-150 before, but that's about as close as I can get.

Attorney Raad (03:05:50):

Probably not that great, right?

Mark Sanders (03:05:53):

Takes a little bit more to turn around than a small sedan.

Attorney Raad (03:05:56):

So you don't know how many times Cooper would've had to shift his truck to back up and enter Sophie's driveway from the right, do you?

Mark Sanders (03:06:04):

I have no idea.

Attorney Raad (03:06:07):

All right. You would agree with me that pickup truck's turn radius is a little bit different from your Tesla, right?

Mark Sanders (03:06:11):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:06:17):

And we saw the video where Cooper's at Sophie's house for a little bit, right?

Mark Sanders (03:06:22):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:06:22):

He's there, he brings her back, the parents come out and they help her from the truck. Do you recall that?

Mark Sanders (03:06:28):

I do.

Attorney Raad (03:06:28):

All right. And then isn't it true that Cooper leaves but comes back with Sophie's phone, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:06:34):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:06:35):

So he left and came back with her phone and gave it to her parents, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:06:39):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:06:45):

No more questions. Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:06:46):

Thank you. [inaudible 03:06:49]

Attorney Clifton (03:06:55):

During cross-examination, you were asked about where Life360 gets its data in the cell phone, and I believe the phrase "Only as good as what's put in." Is that accurate?

Mark Sanders (03:07:07):

It was garbage in, garbage out.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:09):

And in the field of digital forensic analysis, is latitude and longitude to a decimal point good data?

Mark Sanders (03:07:17):

It can be, yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:18):

Why is that?

Mark Sanders (03:07:19):

It identifies a specific point on a map.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:25):

And you were asked a little bit about the method that you used to calculate speed.

Mark Sanders (03:07:30):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:31):

When you did those calculations, did you generate a number of data sets?

Mark Sanders (03:07:36):

Can you ask that a little differently?

Attorney Clifton (03:07:37):

Sure. When you were calculating the speeds relative to your test data, did you provide data sets of all the speed, all the location points, all of your calculations?

Mark Sanders (03:07:48):

Yeah, voluminous amounts of data.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:50):

And did you make them available for anyone to test?

Mark Sanders (03:07:53):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:07:55):

And have you in any method been brought to your attention of any incorrect calculation of those datas?

Mark Sanders (03:08:03):

Nothing incorrect, just variations between formulas.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:06):

And talk about those formulas. During your data sets, you used how many different formulas to calculate speed?

Mark Sanders (03:08:13):

I used three different formulas.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:15):

And what was the variation in speed and miles per hour between formulas?

Mark Sanders (03:08:19):

It was largely a fraction of a mile per hour with the exception of law of cosines when it was very close together. It's just not a good formula for very close together, and we had a lot of that, so I ended up moving away from law of cosines.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:35):

And are those scientific formulas generally accepted in the field?

Mark Sanders (03:08:38):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:39):

And are you aware of any attack to the validity of any of those scientific calculations?

Mark Sanders (03:08:45):

I guess you would say exactly what I just mentioned, but it's well understood why.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:49):

So some formulas are better when data is close together, some went further apart?

Mark Sanders (03:08:53):

Exactly.

Attorney Clifton (03:08:54):

And did you utilize the best data, the best equation for the data set you had?

Mark Sanders (03:08:59):

I did. I used one that was specifically good for close together.

Attorney Clifton (03:09:03):

You were also talk about removing that anomalous 250 mile per hour.

Mark Sanders (03:09:07):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:09:07):

Why did you remove that data?

Mark Sanders (03:09:09):

Remove isn't the right word. I never added it.

Attorney Clifton (03:09:11):

Okay. So why did you not add that?

Mark Sanders (03:09:14):

So as we saw in the animation, the sample points, the ones with the S that were very frequent, they were limited, right? I only showed them at points where we really need to break it down second by second. If I had all of those points up the entire time, it would've just flooded the map, it would've ran poorly, and you would never have seen Mr. Ouellette's device in relation to all of Sophie's points.

Attorney Clifton (03:09:35):

And you had talked about your testing revealing that horizontal accuracy rating of five meters. Was the data point in that 250 mile an hour set in excess of five meters of horizontal accuracy?

Mark Sanders (03:09:52):

Yes. I don't know the amount, but it was quite high, above five.

Attorney Clifton (03:09:55):

And in order to present accurate information, is that why you did not present that data?

Mark Sanders (03:10:02):

No, because I already wasn't including it because it didn't exist at a timeframe where I was putting sample points.

Attorney Clifton (03:10:08):

Okay. So you were using server points at that point?

Mark Sanders (03:10:11):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:10:12):

Which has that speed data from the phone?

Mark Sanders (03:10:13):

Correct.

Attorney Clifton (03:10:18):

And you don't know what the server point, the rate of error plus or minus is as it relates to Life360's server points, but as to your sample points, what is the plus or minus in miles per hour?

Mark Sanders (03:10:32):

At max, it would be five miles per hour.

Attorney Clifton (03:10:39):

Nothing further, Judge. Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:10:40):

Anything else?

Attorney Raad (03:10:43):

So this is the first time you used Life360 in your career for a case like this, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:10:47):

Correct. Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:10:48):

All right. And you identified anomalies?

Mark Sanders (03:10:50):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:10:51):

One so big as a truck reversing at a speed of 250 miles per hour?

Mark Sanders (03:10:56):

Yes. It could be implied that that would be the case, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:10:59):

Did you view that?

Mark Sanders (03:11:01):

I saw rapid backward movement, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:11:04):

All right. At a speed of 200 to 250 miles per hour, right? Something outrageous?

Mark Sanders (03:11:08):

Something beyond the scale of possibility. This was before the limitation at the five meters horizontal accuracy. So if we assumed on the outer ends of the horizontal accuracy that speed would come down, it still was outside of the bounds of what is possible.

Attorney Raad (03:11:23):

That's nice. You want us to believe the accuracy of this app...

Attorney Clifton (03:11:32):

I'm waiting for you to finish your question.

Attorney Raad (03:11:33):

You want us to believe the accuracy of this application, correct?

Attorney Clifton (03:11:37):

Objection, argumentative.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:11:41):

I'll overrule it.

Attorney Clifton (03:11:41):

You want to believe?

Attorney Raad (03:11:42):

You want us to give credit to this application, correct? To its accuracy?

Mark Sanders (03:11:47):

The data that is provided from and to the application, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:11:50):

All right. But you've only used it once for a case like this, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:11:52):

Yes.

Attorney Raad (03:11:54):

You just told the jury that you identified an anomaly, the speed of the truck reversing at a speed of 200 to 250 miles per hour, yes?

Mark Sanders (03:12:02):

Yes, generally. That it's backwards at an unreasonable rate of speed.

Attorney Raad (03:12:06):

And you can't tell us all the anomalies that existed. You can't tell us that, can you?

Mark Sanders (03:12:11):

I did not go through every sample point for the entirety of the data set, no.

Attorney Raad (03:12:16):

Okay. But here you want us to accept that this application is accurate, correct?

Mark Sanders (03:12:20):

For the vast majority of what we saw, it appeared to be relatively accurate, yes.

Attorney Raad (03:12:25):

All right. This consumer app, you want us to vouch to believe its credibility, correct?

Attorney Clifton (03:12:31):

Objection. Asked and answered.

Attorney Raad (03:12:32):

Sorry, accuracy.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:12:34):

I'll let you ask it one more time. That's it.

Attorney Raad (03:12:37):

I'll move on. I'm finished.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:12:39):

All right. Anything else?

Attorney Clifton (03:12:41):

Did surveillance footage corroborate the geolocation data after the anomaly?

Mark Sanders (03:12:44):

It did, yes.

Attorney Clifton (03:12:47):

Thank you.

Attorney Raad (03:12:47):

No further questions.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:12:47):

Thank you, sir. Have a seat. Step down.

Mark Sanders (03:12:49):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:12:53):

Appreciate it. [Inaudible 03:12:54]. All right. State?

Speaker 11 (03:13:06):

[inaudible 03:13:05]. May I just have one moment with the clerk, please?

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:13:08):

You may.

Speaker 11 (03:13:27):

[inaudible 03:13:19]. My understanding, Your Honor, in conference with the clerk is that the only item of evidence that is marked for identification in the state's case would be 70, and every other exhibit is marked as full, either by agreement or through evidence.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:13:43):

All right. Well, I'm going to have you go through that anyways [inaudible 03:13:45]

Speaker 11 (03:13:45):

That's fine. And with that, the state will rest.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:13:47):

All right. State's rest. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it's 10 of. We take it a little early lunch. The state has rested their case. Again, leave your notebooks on the chair. Don't talk about this case to anybody, marshals, each other, friends, family, no research on the internet or any other means. And we'll see you at two o'clock. Enjoy your lunch.

Speaker 12 (03:18:00):

(silence)

Speaker 13 (03:51:00):

(silence)

Bailiff (03:51:00):

Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (03:51:00):

Good afternoon, everybody. Are we ready to [inaudible 04:30:38]?

Clerk (03:51:00):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (04:30:38):

Your Honor, we have a motion to be made before-

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:30:42):

All right. I'll see everybody in chambers.

Bailiff (04:35:03):

The court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:35:06):

Good afternoon, everybody. All right. Relative to a judgment acquittal, which the defense will make at the conclusion. You're going to present a case, correct?

Martin Minnella (04:35:12):

That's correct, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:35:15):

Fair enough. At the conclusion of their case. Before the next witness testifies, I believe Attorney Clifton wants to make an objection.

Attorney Clifton (04:35:22):

Yes, Your Honor. State does object to the testimony of the next witness, Mr. Jeff Martin. Pursuant to rule of evidence 7-2, testimony of experts is only allowed when there is testimony that will assist the trier of fact in understanding the evidence or in determining a fact in issue. The court does have a gate-keeping function as it relates to the presentation of such evidence. And what we know from the prior hearing is that Mr. Martin has not reviewed the data in this case. Thus, to render an opinion that the data in this case is in any way unreliable is speculation. And I would ask the court to exercise its gate-keeping function as it relates to that.

(04:35:57)
Secondly, any allegation that this witness has some kind of personal knowledge to be able to talk about a legal disclaimer by Life360 as to the speed accuracy, this is the wrong witness. He, again, at that testimony represented he's never worked at Life360. He has never worked on the program. He's never programmed it. He has no information other than going to a website, clicking around a couple of articles. And now he wants to opine as to based upon that disclaimer that the speed accuracy is limited. And the court has already ruled that the methodology used by Life360 is scientifically reliable.

(04:36:31)
So based upon that, I'm asking the court to exercise its gate-keeping function and deny the evidence.

Martin Minnella (04:36:36):

Your Honor, he has worked with Life360 in his position with the Michigan State Police for about six years. He has worked on it, but he's going to testify about the speed and accuracy of it.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:36:52):

The objection's overruled. I think it's proper for a cross-examination. Bring the jury in.

Martin Minnella (04:36:59):

Thank you, Your Honor.

Christian Watson (04:36:59):

At this point I do.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:38:31):

Okay. Will the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?

Attorney Clifton (04:38:32):

Yes, Your Honor.

Christian Watson (04:38:32):

Yes, Your Honor.

Martin Minnella (04:38:37):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:38:37):

Ladies and gentlemen, as you know, the State rested its case. Defense, do you plan on presenting a case?

Martin Minnella (04:38:43):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:38:44):

All right. Call your witness.

Martin Minnella (04:38:45):

We'll call Jeff Martin, who's going to appear on Zoom.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:38:55):

All right. Next witness, Mr. Martin, is going to appear remotely based on travel arrangements. [inaudible 04:38:59].

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:38:55):

Hello?

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:39:38):

Thank you. All right. Before we swear you in, Mr. Martin, can you hear us okay?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:39:45):

Yes, I can. Can you hear me okay?

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:39:47):

I could. Can you see us okay?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:39:50):

Yes, I can.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:39:51):

All right. We're going to have you sworn in, okay?

Clerk (04:39:55):

Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or solemnly sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning the case now in question shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or upon penalty of perjury?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:07):

Yes, I do.

Clerk (04:40:08):

Please state your full name, spelling your last name.

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:11):

Jeffrey Michael Martin, M-A-R-T-I-N.

Clerk (04:40:18):

And please state your business and business address.

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:23):

My business, Evidence Solutions, Inc. And I don't recall the exact address.

Clerk (04:40:30):

Okay. Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:40:30):

Attorney Minnella.

Martin Minnella (04:40:34):

Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Martin.

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:37):

Good afternoon.

Martin Minnella (04:40:38):

Now you've testified before in this courthouse, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:43):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (04:40:45):

And you work for Evidence Solutions. What do you do for them?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:50):

I am a digital forensics expert for Evidence Solutions.

Martin Minnella (04:40:54):

And can you tell the jury, what is your educational background?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:40:59):

I have an undergrad degree in computer information systems from Northern Michigan University. I have a master's in cybersecurity and information assurance from Davenport University.

Martin Minnella (04:41:14):

What training have you received in digital forensics?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:41:22):

Prominently, I received the, or I earned the CFCE certification, the certified forensic computer examiner from the International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists, otherwise known as IACIS. I have approximately 2,000 hours of other digital forensic specific training as well.

Martin Minnella (04:41:51):

Do you have a master's degree also?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:41:54):

Correct.

Martin Minnella (04:41:55):

And where is that from?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:41:57):

Davenport University in Michigan.

Martin Minnella (04:42:01):

And did you previously work with the Michigan State Police?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:42:07):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (04:42:08):

And for how long did you work for the Michigan State Police?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:42:12):

I worked for the Michigan State Police just under six years.

Martin Minnella (04:42:16):

And what work did you do with the Michigan State Police? Explain to the jury.

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:42:22):

I was a digital forensics analyst in the Computer Crimes Unit of the Michigan State Police. Among a lot of duties, I acquired, preserved, analyzed, and interpreted digital evidence.

Martin Minnella (04:42:42):

And for how long have you been in this field?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:42:47):

I've been in the information technology field since 2003, so approximately 23 years. I've been in the digital forensics specific field since 2017, so approximately nine years.

Martin Minnella (04:43:01):

And what kind of work did you do with the Michigan State Police? What did it involve?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:43:10):

Michigan State Police as a digital forensics analyst in the computer crimes unit, just investigating all aspects of cyber related or digital evidence related data and interpreting it for investigations for the detectives or investigators. And then also presenting that information to the prosecutor and eventually testifying in court as to the explanation of or interpretation of digital evidence.

Martin Minnella (04:43:44):

So with the Michigan State Police, you were primarily an expert who testified for the state or the prosecution, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:43:56):

That is correct.

Martin Minnella (04:43:57):

And how long have you been with this company that you're with now?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:02):

I just reached my five-year anniversary in September.

Martin Minnella (04:44:07):

And you reside in Michigan? Is that where you live?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:10):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (04:44:12):

And are you familiar with Life360?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:18):

Yes, I am.

Martin Minnella (04:44:19):

How are you familiar with Life360?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:23):

Well, I personally use Life360 and have used it for approximately 10 years now. But I've also seen Life360 data in numerous cases or investigations.

Martin Minnella (04:44:37):

So you've worked with Life360 data, is that your answer?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:41):

Yes. I've worked with Life360 data professionally as well as used the application personally.

Martin Minnella (04:44:48):

So personally, are you one of the 100 million consumers that use Life360?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:44:59):

I am a consumer user of Life360, yes.

Martin Minnella (04:45:04):

As a forensic analyst or investigator, what would you not use Life360 for professionally? Can you explain to the jury?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:45:17):

Well, with Life360 data, Life360 data is not reliable enough to be used for accurate location determination and also not reliable enough to be used to determine speed.

Martin Minnella (04:45:33):

And how did you determine that? Did you ever view their app or their website?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:45:41):

Correct. Their website includes a disclaimer in their help documentation that the Life360 application, predominantly being a consumer application, is not accurate enough to determine accurate speed and location services.

Martin Minnella (04:46:03):

All right. Let me ask you this question. A lot of us are novices. We don't understand this, but if you have, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you have GPS in your vehicle or airplane, you got that?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:46:18):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (04:46:19):

Your GPS data would come from a satellite, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:46:22):

Correct. Depending on the device, but correct.

Martin Minnella (04:46:29):

All right. Life360 gets its data, and correct me if I'm wrong, from a cell phone, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:46:38):

Traditionally, Life360 is installed on a mobile device, and that is where Life360's application gets its location data from, from the mobile device that it's installed on.

Martin Minnella (04:46:51):

And that data would come from a cell phone to a tower, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:46:57):

A tower is one area where the mobile phone gets its location data from, correct.

Martin Minnella (04:47:06):

And what affects the reliability or why wouldn't you use this phone derived location data to determine location and speed? What are the problems with it?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:47:21):

Well, I would say the biggest factor in the reliability of the accuracy of this location data comes from signal strength. And there are multiple factors, a list of factors that can affect signal strength. But at the end of the day, you have a mobile phone, which is a very small, typically a very small handheld device that isn't designed to be a GPS, an accurate GPS location device compared to, let's say, an airplane that also uses GPS location. That airplane is going to have a much stronger signal capacity. It's going to have a much stronger antenna. So the biggest factor with regards to mobile location data is its signal strength.

Martin Minnella (04:48:18):

‍

And are there other factors that come into play when you're looking at the reliability of the cell phone data? Is there other factors that are involved with topography being involved?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:48:32):

Correct. Anything that affects signal strength when it comes to that mobile device. To start, you've got a small handheld device with a built-in antenna, which is basically the size of a wire. You have battery strength, which can affect signal strength of a mobile device. You have line of sight, which factors that affect line of sight could be buildings, mountains, trees, the difference between being inside of a vehicle versus being outside of a vehicle. Weather can affect signal device on a mobile phone. The amount of traffic on a cell phone tower can affect signal strength of a mobile phone. The distance between the mobile phone and the tower can affect signal strength on a mobile phone.

Martin Minnella (04:49:26):

So there's some of the factors that lead to the unreliability of the cell phone data that Life360 uses, is that correct, when determining speed and location. Would you agree with that?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:49:40):

I agree with that, yes.

Martin Minnella (04:49:43):

Now, anomalies. You testified before in this courthouse and you talked about anomalies. Would you consider a Life360 app that says a vehicle is traveling 250 miles in reverse, would you call that an anomaly?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:50:08):

I would factor that as an anomaly, yes.

Martin Minnella (04:50:11):

And what if there were other anomalies that you found? Would you note them in your report if you were making your report?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:50:21):

Correct. Yeah. When you're analyzing and interpreting data, it's important to document the anomalies in addition to the data that you determine is not an anomaly.

Martin Minnella (04:50:33):

Let me ask you this question. If you went on a date, let's say you went today and you went to a site and you used your cell phone and you wanted to determine location or speed of the cell phone, correct? It never uses a vehicle to determine speed. It uses the speed of the cell phone, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:51:03):

Correct. When Life360 is installed on a mobile device, the Life360 data is using that mobile device as its source of data, therefore speed and location is estimated from that mobile device.

Martin Minnella (04:51:19):

So if you went, let's say tonight at 11:30 to a specific location and used Life360 and you got some information obtained from your Life360 as far as location and speed, is it true that you could go the next night at the same time and get a different result?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:51:45):

That is possible, yes.

Martin Minnella (04:51:47):

Now, if you were doing an analysis as a forensic investigator, would you say it's important to go to the scene of what you're analyzing?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:52:03):

Yes, I would think that that would be important.

Martin Minnella (04:52:12):

What should a reconstructionist do when he's using a device like Life360 and it produces a physically implausible result, like going 250 miles an hour in reverse, what should they do after that, receiving that physically impossible result? What would you do as an expert?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:52:37):

Well, if I was examining data, Life360 data in this case, and one of my sole jobs as a digital forensics analyst or expert is to validate the data, the digital data, forensically validate. Meaning can I determine if this data is accurate or if it is an anomaly? Ultimately, if I am determining that data is an anomaly, I'm going to document it, but I'm also going to try and attempt to determine why that data is an anomaly. What could have caused that data or that line of data to be so far off of the normal data track.

Martin Minnella (04:53:25):

And if you were an expert and you were doing a report, would you write down all the anomalies you found in your investigation? Would that be important to you as an expert?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:53:41):

Identifying and documenting and reporting the data in its true form is important to my work, yes.

Martin Minnella (04:53:50):

Thank you. I have nothing further.

Attorney Clifton (04:54:05):

Good afternoon, Mr. Martin. When were you first retained in this case?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:54:15):

I don't recall the exact date.

Attorney Clifton (04:54:17):

And how much have you been paid?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:54:21):

I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

Attorney Clifton (04:54:25):

How much have you been paid?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:54:29):

I don't know the total amount. I know that I am billing at 450 an hour for standard work, and I want to say 600 an hour for trial testimony.

Attorney Clifton (04:54:45):

And what information did you request to review in this file?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:54:52):

Originally, I requested Life360 data, any data in its raw and original and native format regarding the Life360 data and the cell phones.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:08):

And you requested that last month on about October 1st, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:14):

I don't recall when I specifically requested it.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:16):

Do you recall requesting it prior to testifying last month on October 8th?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:22):

I requested it prior to testifying, yes.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:25):

And did you receive that information?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:28):

No, I did not.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:29):

Have you analyzed that information?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:32):

No, I have not.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:33):

How long have you spent reviewing this file?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:39):

How many hours do I have on this case?

Attorney Clifton (04:55:41):

Yes.

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:43):

I don't know the total number of hours I've spent.

Attorney Clifton (04:55:46):

Do you recall on or about on October 8th testifying as of then you had 20 hours reviewing that case?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:55:55):

That would've been a guess. I don't recall how many hours. I would be wildly guessing at this point.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:03):

So are you saying that when you were testifying on October 8th, you were guessing as to the hours? Or you're saying today you can't say it because you'd be guessing?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:11):

I'd be guessing today.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:12):

Okay. And on or about October 6th, you prepared an expert disclosure form, didn't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:22):

I believe so, yes. I prepared an expert disclosure, yes.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:27):

And in that disclosure, you disclosed your opinion as to the unreliability of the Life360 data in this case, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:35):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:36):

And at that time you wrote that report, you had not reviewed the data in this case, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:42):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:47):

And did you receive a voicemail from my office requesting to speak with you about this case?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:53):

Yes, I did.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:54):

But you never called our office back, did you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:56:57):

No, I did not.

Attorney Clifton (04:56:59):

Did you also receive an email from our office requesting to speak with you about this case?

Attorney Clifton (04:57:00):

... email from our office requesting to speak with you about this case?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:57:04):

Yes, I did.

Attorney Clifton (04:57:05):

Did you respond to that email?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:57:07):

No, I did not.

Attorney Clifton (04:57:12):

Prior to preparing that expert disclosure on October 6th of 2026, you had not reviewed any of the decedent's Life360 GPS log files secured by search warrant in this case. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:57:25):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:57:27):

Prior to issuing that expert disclosure, you had not reviewed any of the defendant's Life360 GPS log files secured by search warrant in this case. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:57:38):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:57:39):

Prior to issuing that report, you had not reviewed the Cellebrite extraction GPS log files from the decedent's phone, excuse me, from the decedent's iPhone 13 Pro Max. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:57:51):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:57:52):

And are you aware that Apple technical specifications for the iPhone 13 Pro Max list that its location information includes built- in GPS?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:58:02):

Yes, I am aware.

Attorney Clifton (04:58:05):

And you did not review the Cellebrite extraction from the defendant's iPhone 13 Pro, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:58:11):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (04:58:12):

And are you aware that Apple technical specifications for the iPhone 13 Pro list its location information to include built-in GPS?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:58:20):

Yes, I'm aware.

Attorney Clifton (04:58:23):

When you prepared that report, you had also not reviewed any of the NESPIN reports created, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:58:30):

I don't recall. I know I reviewed the NESPIN report, but I don't recall if it was prior to that expert disclosure or not.

Attorney Clifton (04:58:38):

Well, do you recall testifying on October 8th that you had not reviewed the reports prior to issuing that expert report?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:58:44):

I don't recall specifically testifying to that, no.

Attorney Clifton (04:58:48):

I am going to now offer this for identification, Judge. This is a certified transcript of that proceeding. I will make a redaction at a recess, but I will be offering between pages 28 and 29 relative to this as a full exhibit. Would the court like a courtesy copy to determine the inaccuracy?

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:59:18):

Aren't you going to show it to him first?

Attorney Clifton (04:59:18):

I can't show it to him [inaudible 04:59:22] not here. [inaudible 04:59:24].

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:59:23):

I know what you're doing. What page?

Attorney Clifton (04:59:34):

28 into 29.

Judge Chris Pelosi (04:59:41):

What exactly do you not recall, Mr. Martin?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (04:59:47):

Whether or not I testified if I had read or reviewed the NESPIN report prior to writing my expert disclosure, I believe.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:00:05):

Okay. Okay. You can follow up.

Attorney Clifton (05:00:10):

Will the court allow that to be admitted in full?

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:00:14):

Okay. So-

Attorney Clifton (05:00:15):

Once I make the redaction of that [inaudible 05:00:16].

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:00:17):

... failure to recollect, I reviewed sections 6-10 and 8-5 [inaudible 05:00:23] one of Connecticut Code of Evidence. [inaudible 05:00:25] Whelan 200 Conn. 743, Hamilton 352 Conn. 317, Simpson 286 Conn. 634. Inconsistencies may be found in denial of recollection. Here, you can't really disclose it to him because he's on video, but you did direct his attention to the time and place and the circumstances it was made. It's a certified copy and you could offer what you're offering, what is inconsistent.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:01):

Thank you, Your Honor. And Mr. Martin, as you sit here today, you still have not reviewed any of the decedent's Life360 GPS log files secured by search warrant in this case, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:14):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:15):

And as you sit here today, you have not reviewed any of the defendant's Life360 GPS log files secured by search warrant in this case, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:23):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:24):

And again, as you sit here today, you have not reviewed the Cellebrite extraction GPS log files from the decedent's phone. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:32):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:33):

And as you sit here today, you have not reviewed the Cellebrite extraction from the defendant's phone, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:38):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:40):

You still have not reviewed those NESPIN reports. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:45):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:47):

And you have not reviewed any of the NESPIN testing records of the Life360 data?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:01:54):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:01:58):

You did not do any independent testing of the Life360 application, did you, sir?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:02:03):

No, I did not.

Attorney Clifton (05:02:06):

Part of your assumptions through your testimony in this case are based upon factual recitations from a defense motion. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:02:14):

Can you rephrase the question? I don't understand the question.

Attorney Clifton (05:02:17):

Sure. In part of your review prior to your testimony on October 8th of 2026, you had reviewed allegations in a defense motion, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:02:30):

I had reviewed motions, yes, that is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:02:33):

And part of your assumptions were based upon the factual recitations in that motion, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:02:40):

My assumptions and opinions are based on factual information, not motions.

Attorney Clifton (05:02:47):

Do you recall specifically testifying on October 8th of 2026 that you did in fact make factual assumptions based upon those motions?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:03:00):

I don't recall specifically what I testified.

Attorney Clifton (05:03:03):

I will offer page 31, Judge.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:03:08):

What sentence or what line? 12 and 13?

Attorney Clifton (05:03:15):

13 through 16, I believe.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:03:25):

You're admitting it for Whelan? [inaudible 05:03:26].

Attorney Clifton (05:03:26):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:03:30):

Can enter it for Whelan purposes.

Attorney Clifton (05:03:31):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:03:32):

Again, my prior ruling is incorporated into this particular statement on page 31 of the transcript.

Attorney Clifton (05:03:44):

You've never worked at Life360, have you, sir?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:03:47):

No, I have not.

Attorney Clifton (05:03:49):

You've not participated in the engineering of the Life360 program, have you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:03:54):

No, I have not.

Attorney Clifton (05:03:55):

And the accuracy of speed and location information for Life360 is controlled by the phone, isn't it?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:03):

Predominantly, yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:04):

And you agree that smartphones such as the iPhone contain location information, correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:11):

Smartphones contain location information, yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:13):

And in fact, your company offers forensic analysis of GPS data from cell phones, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:19):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:20):

And your company has taken a position lauding the accuracy of GPS information and cell phones, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:25):

That is correct, but that location is an estimation.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:31):

And you would agree that cell phone GPS information can be more exact than traditional cell tower triangulation approaches. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:40):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:41):

You agree that cell phones are capable of geo-locating within a few feet. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:47):

Yes, they are capable of that.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:49):

In fact, you've gone so far as to raise privacy concerns based upon the prevalence and accuracy of geolocation information. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:04:58):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:04:59):

You have in fact cautioned that widespread tracking capabilities of information-sharing apps expose individuals to risks such as unauthorized surveillance, haven't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:05:10):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:11):

You even caution that when visiting public places, your exact location may be known to apps and individuals in your network, limiting your privacy in everyday situations. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:05:22):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:24):

You agree that applications can leverage cell phone geolocation data to obtain position and speed data, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:05:33):

Position and speed data, yes, that is correct, but not accurate.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:37):

You agree that GPS data is now available from an increasing number of sources and is ushering in-

Martin Minnella (05:05:43):

Your Honor, I'm going to object to this as relevance.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:43):

Overruled.

Martin Minnella (05:05:43):

You can let him go, Your Honor.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:49):

You agree that G-

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:49):

Hang on, Attorney Clifton.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:50):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:05:51):

It's cross-examination, give some latitude.

Attorney Clifton (05:05:56):

You agree that GPS data is now available from an increasing number of sources and is ushering in heightened accountability and precision in legal disputes. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:06:06):

I agree, but the precision depends on the device and the technologies at play.

Attorney Clifton (05:06:15):

Do you recall testifying on October 8th of 2026 agreeing to that statement?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:06:25):

I don't recall specifically what I testified to on that date, but I just agreed with that statement.

Attorney Clifton (05:06:31):

Judge, I'm going to offer page 39, lines nine through 14.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:06:51):

Give me one second. All right. Are you admitting that under Whelan?

Attorney Clifton (05:07:03):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:07:03):

You want to be heard, or no?

Martin Minnella (05:07:03):

No, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:07:10):

All right. I'll find that an actual inconsistency is shown on page 39, lines nine through 13. And again, my previous ruling is incorporated into page 39, nine through 13 relative to Whelan.

Attorney Clifton (05:07:25):

Thank you. Sir, you agree that cell phones contain more GPS data than ever before and many applications stored in unexpected places like fitness apps, photos, and videos, is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:07:35):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:07:38):

You agree that GPS data from those applications can log precise locations, and if two devices constantly share overlapping GPS data, this can be a strong indicator of cohabitation. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:07:50):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:07:52):

And you agree that data must be seized as quickly as possible, don't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:07:58):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:07:59):

Your company refers to it as seize and freeze, doesn't it?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:08:03):

I'm not familiar with that term, no.

Attorney Clifton (05:08:06):

Page 39 going into 40, Judge, lines 27 on 39, one on 40.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:08:19):

All right. And so you're offering, you agree that this data must be seized as quickly as possible, and on page 39 and 26, that is correct. And your company calls it seize and freeze, correct? And he says correct, and you're offering that for Whelan?

Attorney Clifton (05:08:33):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:08:34):

All right. Any objection?

Martin Minnella (05:08:36):

No, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:08:37):

All right. Previous ruling is incorporated on page 39 and 40, lines 26 and 27 and line one on page 40 for Whelan purposes.

Attorney Clifton (05:08:49):

And sir, you would agree that once the data is seized, the examiner can uncover details not readily accessible to device owners, legal teams, or law enforcement agencies, right?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:08:59):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:01):

You would agree that cell phones are treasure troves of personal information, including location history from historical logs of GPS coordinates, don't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:09:09):

Yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:11):

You would agree that a cell phone can contain GPS data that could independently show how fast a truck was moving, don't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:09:18):

In certain circumstances with certain technologies, yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:22):

Sir, do you agree with that statement or not?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:09:25):

I said yes.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:31):

You've even gone so far as to author articles encouraging people to utilize location-sharing applications?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:09:39):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:41):

You've written, "Real-time location sharing with trusted friends, family, or emergency services can offer a critical safety net in dangerous situations, providing faster responses when every second counts," didn't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:09:54):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:09:55):

You further wrote, "That these services use GPS, wifi, and other technologies to determine your exact location and offer a range of benefits from improving safety to increasing efficiency," didn't you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:10:08):

That is correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:10:10):

And the location-sharing app that you personally use to safeguard your family is Life360, isn't it?

Martin Minnella (05:10:15):

Your Honor, I'm going to object to this because he's talking about testimony that he gave when they were talking about consumer application, not application that is used here in Life360, what they're attempting to do in this case.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:10:30):

I think it's covering the subject matter that you brought up on direct examination. I'll overrule it.

Attorney Clifton (05:10:37):

Do you need me to repeat the question, sir?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:10:39):

Yes, please.

Attorney Clifton (05:10:41):

The location-sharing app that you personally use to safeguard your family is Life360, isn't it?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:10:47):

Yes, I use Life360.

Attorney Clifton (05:10:49):

And you've used it for over a decade?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:10:52):

Correct.

Attorney Clifton (05:10:52):

Thank you. I have nothing further.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:10:53):

Anything further?

Martin Minnella (05:10:59):

You used that Life360 and you've used it for over 10 years to locate your son if you had to locate him. Is that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:11:11):

I used it for all three of my children. That is correct.

Martin Minnella (05:11:14):

Right. And it has nothing to do with speed and location. It has to do with giving a general location of where your son may be at a particular time, isn't that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:11:27):

Correct. It's a great app for general location tracking of the parties involved within the application.

Martin Minnella (05:11:36):

Now you've been in this field, I think you testified, for approximately 23 years, correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:11:43):

The information technology field for 23 years and specifically the digital forensics field for nine years.

Martin Minnella (05:11:53):

In all your experience with the Michigan State Police and your 23 years of forensic training, have you ever known any case in the United States of America that has used Life360 to determine speed, location of a vehicle and not the phone? Do you know of any case?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:12:18):

Not with inaccuracy, no. I'm not aware of any case.

Martin Minnella (05:12:21):

And the problem is accuracy, isn't it? And reliability. That's why it's not used in these type cases. Isn't that true?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:12:31):

That's true as to why I have not used it in my professional capacity. The data is not reliable enough to be a hundred percent accurate.

Martin Minnella (05:12:43):

And you don't have to examine the data in this case to make that opinion that Life360 data is unreliable on its face, do you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:12:56):

No, I do not.

Martin Minnella (05:12:58):

And in fact, Life360 itself offers that disclaimer that it should not be used for the purpose they're trying to use in this case, doesn't it?

Attorney Clifton (05:13:11):

Objection. Classification. Argumentative.

Martin Minnella (05:13:15):

I [inaudible 05:13:16] it, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:13:15):

I'll allow it.

Martin Minnella (05:13:18):

Can you answer that question?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:13:21):

Life360's health documentation specifically states that its app should not be used to determine accurate speed and accurate location.

Martin Minnella (05:13:32):

And the answer is really because it's not reliable. Isn't that a fact?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:13:39):

That is correct. The way Life360 captures its data through the mobile phone is just not reliable enough to be 100% accurate.

Martin Minnella (05:13:48):

So you never used this in your six years at the Michigan State Police as a forensic analyst, did you?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:13:55):

No, I did not.

Martin Minnella (05:13:57):

And you may use it for just location on some circumstances, correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:14:04):

Correct. It can be used for general location data.

Martin Minnella (05:14:08):

And general location means you can see a circle, and inside that circle, the individual may be, correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:14:18):

That's one way to depict what the data is showing, but in essence, general location, certainly I would use and rely upon Life360 data to show whether or not a Life360 mobile device was located in a city or in a district or maybe at a large event like a high school football game.

Martin Minnella (05:14:47):

Now the prosecutor brought up the fact that you have had this device, consumer device, for 10 years. Have you ever had any anomaly using this device? And if you did, can you explain it to the jury?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:15:03):

I can remember one occasion where I was trying to determine where my son was. I think he was 15 at the time. And I pulled up Life360 and it showed his location about 50 to 100 meters out into the... We lived near Lake Superior in Marquette, Michigan. He wasn't supposed to be out on the water that day.

Martin Minnella (05:15:34):

Was he out on the water?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:15:34):

No, he was not. It was just an inaccurate location that was determined by the Life360 application.

Martin Minnella (05:15:41):

So regardless of the data you examined in this case or didn't examine, your opinion on Life360 is based on your 23 years experience, correct? Your six years experience in law enforcement, and what your company may say it could be used for is basically to locate, or sharing device, for people to determine location. Isn't that correct?

Jeffrey Michael Martin (05:16:12):

That is correct.

Martin Minnella (05:16:14):

Nothing further, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:16:14):

Anything further?

Attorney Clifton (05:16:15):

No, your Honor. Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:16:17):

All right. Thank you, sir, Mr. Martin.

Martin Minnella (05:16:23):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:16:23):

Counsel approach. We're going to take a, hopefully a quick break. We got to discuss some legal issues here. And we'll be right back. Again, no talking about the case, and no researching on the internet or social media.

Speaker 15 (05:16:53):

Court is now back in session. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:24:56):

Good afternoon, everybody. Have a seat. All right. We did meet in chambers relative to the next witness's subject matter of direct examination. Are you ready for the jury?

Martin Minnella (05:25:04):

Yes, Your Honor.

Speaker 16 (05:25:05):

Your Honor, can I just place briefly what we discussed on the record?

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:25:09):

Right. What his subject matter is that you're not going to get into any hearsay statements from Detective Slaiby, correct?

Martin Minnella (05:25:19):

Correct, yeah.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:25:21):

Thank you.

Speaker 16 (05:25:21):

All right.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:27:15):

All right, the parties [inaudible 05:27:14] to the presence of the jury?

Attorney Clifton (05:27:17):

Yes, Your Honor.

Martin Minnella (05:27:17):

Yes, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:27:17):

Attorney Minnella?

Martin Minnella (05:27:19):

I call Detective Ryan Slaiby for the defense.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:27:39):

Thank you. Detective, I'll have you raise your right hand.

Speaker 14 (05:27:51):

Ryan Slaiby (05:27:58):

I swear.

Speaker 14 (05:27:59):

And please state your full name, spelling your last name.

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:02):

Ryan Slaiby. R-Y-A-N S-L-A-I-B-Y.

Speaker 14 (05:28:06):

And please also state your place of business and business address.

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:09):

I'm employed with the Connecticut State Police, 1111 Country Club Road in Middletown, Connecticut.

Speaker 14 (05:28:10):

Thank you.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:28:16):

All right, have a seat, Detective.

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:17):

Thank you.

Martin Minnella (05:28:19):

Good afternoon.

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:20):

Good afternoon.

Martin Minnella (05:28:21):

Detective. You were the lead investigator in this case?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:25):

That's correct.

Martin Minnella (05:28:26):

All right. And when did you first get involved in this case?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:31):

On the morning of May 21st, 2023 at approximately 3:00 AM.

Martin Minnella (05:28:36):

3:00 in the morning. And when did you become a police officer?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:41):

In 2007.

Martin Minnella (05:28:43):

And for whom did you work?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:45):

At that time for the Torrington Police Department.

Martin Minnella (05:28:47):

Did you receive any training as far as accident investigation?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:53):

Yes, I did.

Martin Minnella (05:28:53):

All right. And what was that training? Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury?

Ryan Slaiby (05:28:57):

The training involved the basic academy training at the time, which was approximately a six-month regimen. And then when I had transitioned to the state police, a similar training process with basic accident investigation training. That academy was approximately seven months.

‍

Martin Minnella (05:29:16):

And at three o'clock in the morning on May 21st, 2023, where did you arrive in response to what call bring you to Bristol Hospital?

Ryan Slaiby (05:29:33):

Well, the call to be activated with the major crime unit came in at about 3:00 AM and I was tasked to respond to the Bristol Hospital emergency department.

Martin Minnella (05:29:43):

And did anyone else accompany you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:29:45):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:29:46):

And who accompanied you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:29:48):

I was accompanied by Detectives Bastos and Harrington.

Martin Minnella (05:29:52):

And how many other... This involved a death in a motor vehicle accident, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:00):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:30:00):

And, can you-

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:00):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:30:05):

At that particular time, who did you see at the hospital?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:09):

At the time of our arrival at the hospital, we met with members of the other state police, hospital staff, and the Ringquist family, specifically Lynne and Scott Ringquist.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:30:17):

All right. Thank you. Hang on, Detective Slaiby. We're going to strike the name Ringquist, and what I just said, Ringquist. And what we're going to do is we already call any member of that family by their first name and by their initial. Okay?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:34):

Yes.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:30:34):

Do you understand that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:35):

Yes, I do.

Martin Minnella (05:30:37):

Do you know what Sophie's mother's first name was?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:42):

Yes, I do.

Martin Minnella (05:30:43):

And what was that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:43):

Lynne.

Martin Minnella (05:30:45):

And you met with her, Lynne, and her husband at Bristol Hospital?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:50):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:30:51):

So at 3:00 AM in the morning, what information did you have at that point in your investigation?

Ryan Slaiby (05:30:59):

Just to clarify, we probably arrived more toward 4:00 or 4:30 after the activation of the major crime unit. But upon our arrival there, we had learned that Sophie had sustained injuries that night.

Martin Minnella (05:31:13):

Well, for you to be called out from your unit, you had to know that it was involving a death or a serious physical injury. Is that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:22):

That is correct.

Martin Minnella (05:31:24):

Now, you didn't interview anybody at that particular time, did you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:31):

At Bristol Hospital?

Martin Minnella (05:31:32):

Yes, sir.

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:33):

We did interview people at the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:31:36):

But you didn't interview Lynne or Scott, is that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:41):

No, we interviewed them at the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:31:47):

Did you take a video of them at the hospital?

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:52):

Detective Bastos was wearing his body-worn camera at the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:31:56):

So you had a body camera, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:31:58):

Correct.

Martin Minnella (05:31:58):

So you didn't take a formal interview at that particular time, isn't that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:05):

At the hospital, it was just a verbal interview.

Martin Minnella (05:32:08):

And how many other investigations like this have you been involved with in the last 20 years, 19 years?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:21):

To this extent, probably none.

Martin Minnella (05:32:23):

None?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:24):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:32:25):

Okay. And how long were you with major crime at that point in time?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:31):

I had been there for approximately one month.

Martin Minnella (05:32:33):

One month. And how about when you were a Torrington police officer? Did you ever investigate any accidents that occurred at night?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:44):

Yes, I did.

Martin Minnella (05:32:45):

Did you ever investigate any accidents where there were either serious physical injuries or death?

Ryan Slaiby (05:32:54):

I don't recall if I had in Torrington, but with the state police, I had.

Martin Minnella (05:32:58):

You had with the state police. And is it fair to say that most of these situations, unfortunately, happen at night or late at night? Would you agree with me?

Ryan Slaiby (05:33:09):

I can't really say because I've been to different accidents at different times of the day.

Martin Minnella (05:33:15):

Well, I'm not saying that they don't happen during the day. What I'm saying, the majority of the time accidents like this happen is in the evening or late morning hours. Isn't that a fair statement?

Ryan Slaiby (05:33:30):

I don't know the statistics, so I can't speak to that.

Martin Minnella (05:33:33):

Pardon me?

Ryan Slaiby (05:33:34):

I don't know the statistics, so I could not speak to that.

Martin Minnella (05:33:36):

I'm not asking you for statistics. I'm asking you for your own recollection.

Ryan Slaiby (05:33:46):

I don't know. They've happened at all times of the day.

Martin Minnella (05:33:49):

Okay. So you knew when you went to that hospital that a person had died as a result of a motor vehicle accident?

Ryan Slaiby (05:33:59):

The circumstances were still unclear to us when we were on the way to the hospital and even upon arrival at the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:34:09):

Now, not the details, but you knew someone had passed away, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:34:13):

Yes, we did.

Martin Minnella (05:34:14):

As a result of an automobile accident, isn't that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:34:19):

The phrase automobile accident, it was not that clear at the time that we were dispatched and went to the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:34:28):

So you're telling us, you're under oath now, you're telling us that when you went to that hospital and you were sent there, you don't know the circumstances why you were sent there? Is that your testimony?

Speaker 17 (05:34:39):

Argumentative.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:34:42):

Overruled.

Martin Minnella (05:34:43):

Can you answer that question?

Ryan Slaiby (05:34:45):

Could you please repeat that?

Martin Minnella (05:34:46):

Yes. When you went to that hospital in the early morning or late evening, you're telling us that you don't know the circumstances of why you were called to Bristol Hospital. Is that your testimony?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:00):

We knew some details, but whether or not it was exactly a motor vehicle accident was unclear to us.

Martin Minnella (05:35:07):

At some point in time when you got to Bristol Hospital, did you somehow find out it was an automobile accident?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:18):

We found out of suspicious circumstances that involved a motor vehicle.

Martin Minnella (05:35:23):

And in fact, you sent a police officer to my client's house just to make sure the motor vehicle was there to secure it. Isn't that true?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:36):

Troop L sent that trooper to the house.

Martin Minnella (05:35:39):

So who is Troop L?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:42):

Specifically, Trooper First Class Pawley, who was working as the desk trooper that evening.

Martin Minnella (05:35:48):

Did you have any communication with him?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:50):

I did not.

Martin Minnella (05:35:51):

So you didn't know anyone who was going to the house to guard that car so it wouldn't move. Is that your testimony?

Ryan Slaiby (05:35:58):

We eventually learned those details, that somebody had been assigned to observe the vehicle.

Martin Minnella (05:36:05):

Oh, you knew the person who owned that vehicle was the driver of that car that night that was involved in this accident. You knew that, right?

Ryan Slaiby (05:36:16):

The person who owned the vehicle was not the driver.

Martin Minnella (05:36:19):

I'm not saying the person who owned the vehicle. The person who was driving the vehicle was my client, Cooper Ouellette. You knew that that evening, didn't you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:36:28):

We ultimately learned that that was the case.

Martin Minnella (05:36:31):

Ultimately is when? When did you learn that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:36:34):

At the hospital.

Martin Minnella (05:36:36):

Okay. So at the hospital, did you call Troop L and let them know that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:36:42):

I did not, no.

Martin Minnella (05:36:44):

Well, how did Troop L know enough to send someone to Cooper Ouellette's house to guard or watch his vehicle?

Ryan Slaiby (05:36:53):

When the Bristol Police Department initially received a call from the emergency department, they determined the incident occurred in Troop L's jurisdiction, and Troop L patrol went to the hospital and found those details.

Martin Minnella (05:37:05):

So in your experience of 19 years as a police officer, isn't it important to do two things when you're investigating in the early morning hours a motor vehicle accident? You know the two things you're supposed to do?

Ryan Slaiby (05:37:27):

Could you be more specific as to what you're referring to?

Martin Minnella (05:37:30):

Yes. Isn't it important that you send a trooper, whether it comes from Troop L or from... You were with two other state policemen, correct, from your squad?

Ryan Slaiby (05:37:40):

Correct.

Martin Minnella (05:37:41):

All right. Did you know that you should have sent a trooper to his home at that particular time, early in the morning? You know you should have done that, right?

Ryan Slaiby (05:37:57):

That had already been done prior to major crime's call-out.

Martin Minnella (05:38:02):

That had already been done. Okay. And did you send another trooper to a judge at a superior court to obtain a search warrant for his blood to determine if he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

Ryan Slaiby (05:38:16):

No, we did not.

Martin Minnella (05:38:18):

You did not. Isn't that the protocol when you're involved in a fatal accident where you know who the driver is, you know where he lives, why are you worried... or why is Troop L worried about a car when your first obligation is to test this person? Either he agrees to a test or if he doesn't, you send another trooper to a judge at a superior court and get a search warrant for his blood.

Speaker 17 (05:38:46):

Leading and compound.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:38:49):

Sustained. Why don't you break that down? Okay?

Martin Minnella (05:38:51):

You know the important thing is to have him examine or ask if you would agree to take a test to determine if he was under the influence of liquor or drugs. That's important, isn't it? In a fatal investigation.

Ryan Slaiby (05:39:13):

By the time that we had arrived at the house in the morning, there were several factors at play regarding any decision about that.

Martin Minnella (05:39:21):

Can you please answer that question that I just asked you? You were a police officer for 19 years. You answered that question that I just asked you.

Ryan Slaiby (05:39:29):

At the time of our arrival at the house that morning, it was my belief that too much time had passed, and that there was the unknown factor if there had been any consumption of beverages or alcoholic beverages.

Martin Minnella (05:39:45):

What do you base that on, too much time had passed?

Ryan Slaiby (05:39:45):

That was just my belief at the time.

Martin Minnella (05:39:47):

And your belief is the belief of an individual who's been a police officer for 19 years. Is that correct? That's your belief?

Ryan Slaiby (05:39:56):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:39:56):

All right. And were you ever involved in a situation where you had to go to a judge in a superior court at night and get a search warrant for an individual's blood?

Ryan Slaiby (05:40:14):

I don't know if I have. For other warrants, I have.

Martin Minnella (05:40:18):

Pardon me?

Ryan Slaiby (05:40:19):

For other warrants, I have. I can't remember if ever for blood.

Martin Minnella (05:40:21):

For other warrants. Isn't the most important thing for you to determine in your investigation, you're the lead investigator, is if that man is under the influence of alcohol and drugs, or drugs, isn't that important when you're investigating fatality?

Ryan Slaiby (05:40:38):

I would say, yes.

Martin Minnella (05:40:39):

It is. And you had the ability to send one trooper to a judge at a superior court and one trooper to his house to see if he, number one, would agree to take a test to determine if he was under the influence. And if he failed to do that, you had another trooper at a judge's home at night getting a warrant to get his blood.

Speaker 17 (05:41:09):

Leading.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:41:11):

Overruled.

Ryan Slaiby (05:41:14):

At the time at Bristol Hospital, we had been tasked to make contact with the people there, and any decision making along those lines was not up to me at that point.

Martin Minnella (05:41:23):

You're the lead investigator and the decision is not up to you. Is that your testimony?

Ryan Slaiby (05:41:30):

Regarding that, I was not the lead investigator at that moment.

Martin Minnella (05:41:33):

Well, as a member of major crime, Detective Slaiby, wasn't it important based on your experience and your training to get his level of intoxication and/or drugs? Isn't that important?

Ryan Slaiby (05:41:51):

I would say, yes.

Martin Minnella (05:41:52):

Right. And if he did not agree to it, you could go to a judge and the judge would get an affidavit from you, get a warrant, and like you got his phone, you could put handcuffs on him, correct?

Speaker 17 (05:42:09):

It's a compound question.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:42:11):

It is, but I just want you to... One question at a time.

Martin Minnella (05:42:15):

You could have gotten, like you got the phone, you got a warrant for the phone, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:42:19):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:42:21):

And you went to a school, you handcuffed him, and you got the phone, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:42:25):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:42:27):

That evening, based on your experience and training, you could have gone or sent an officer to his home, you could have sent another officer to the home of a judge to get a search warrant for his blood?

Ryan Slaiby (05:42:45):

Those decisions at that time were not up to me because we had been tasked to perform our duties at the hospital at that point.

Martin Minnella (05:42:54):

That decision wasn't up to you. You're a member of the major crime squad, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:42:59):

Yes. I was at time. Yes, sir.

Martin Minnella (05:43:01):

You know there's a tragic accident where a 17-year-old girl is dead. You knew that, didn't you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:43:08):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:43:08):

You knew who the driver of the car was at that point in time, whether it be 3:00, 3:30, or 4:00. You knew who the driver of the car was?

Ryan Slaiby (05:43:18):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:43:18):

And who was the driver of the car?

Ryan Slaiby (05:43:20):

Mr. Ouellette.

Martin Minnella (05:43:21):

Mr. Ouellette, and yet, Detective Slaiby... You had three officers there, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:43:28):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:43:32):

You could have sent one of the officers to a judge in the superior court just in case he would not agree to a drug test?

Speaker 17 (05:43:40):

This has been asked and answered now five times.

Martin Minnella (05:43:43):

But he's beating around the bush.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:43:45):

That's a yes or no. Answer his question.

Ryan Slaiby (05:43:48):

Could you repeat that please?

Martin Minnella (05:43:53):

Based on your experience, based on your training, based on the fact that you're a member of major crime... that's all correct, right? On May 21st, 2023, you were a member of major crime?

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:09):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:44:11):

Based on your experience, 20 years experience, you had the ability to go to a judge of the superior court and get a warrant for his blood?

Speaker 17 (05:44:22):

Asked and answered.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:44:24):

Overruled.

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:27):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:44:28):

But you didn't, did you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:30):

No.

Martin Minnella (05:44:31):

So at some point in time, you became the lead investigator in this case?

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:38):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:44:39):

And when was that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:41):

That was approximately midday on the 21st.

Martin Minnella (05:44:46):

So midday on the 21st, you become the lead investigator in this accident, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:44:53):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:44:54):

And isn't it a fact that you went to my client's home, woke him up at 6:30 in the morning on the 21st? Did that happen?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:07):

We did not wake him up, but we went to the home, yes.

Martin Minnella (05:45:10):

All right. His mother woke him up, is that right?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:13):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:45:14):

You knocked on his door-

Speaker 17 (05:45:15):

It's argumentative, Your Honor.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:45:16):

That's sustained.

Martin Minnella (05:45:17):

You wanted to speak to him, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:20):

That is correct.

Martin Minnella (05:45:23):

And you went in with body cams, is that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:28):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:45:28):

All right. So it's on body cam. And when you went in to speak to him, you never asked him if he would take a test to determine if he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, did you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:44):

No.

Martin Minnella (05:45:45):

Why?

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:47):

At that time, it was my belief that too much time had passed, but also, I was not the lead to make that decision.

Martin Minnella (05:45:53):

I'm sorry, [inaudible 05:45:57].

Ryan Slaiby (05:45:59):

At the time, I had believed too much time had passed, but also, I was not assigned as the lead investigator at that moment.

Martin Minnella (05:46:06):

Well, you're an investigator with a major crime, you know it's important to find out if he was under the influence in this tragic accident happened, isn't that correct?

Speaker 17 (05:46:17):

This has all been asked and answered.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:46:19):

It has. He did testify that his belief, too much time had passed. He had not been assigned the lead investigator. That's sustained.

Martin Minnella (05:46:27):

You just said too much time had passed. In your experience and training, have you ever heard this word extrapolation?

Ryan Slaiby (05:46:33):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:46:37):

Can you explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what that means?

Ryan Slaiby (05:46:41):

I could explain it in the terms as I understand them, that an analysis could be done from blood to determine a blood alcohol level.

Martin Minnella (05:46:53):

And this accident happened in four or five hours before, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:00):

I would say it was probably closer to six or seven hours before.

Martin Minnella (05:47:03):

Six or seven hours. And you could have taken his blood or asked him to take a test, right? You could have done those two things.

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:12):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:47:12):

And you didn't do it, did you?

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:12):

No.

Martin Minnella (05:47:19):

So now, you are... Sometime on the 21st, you become the lead investigator?

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:26):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:47:27):

What were your duties as the lead investigator?

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:31):

As the lead investigator, I'm the primary scribe of the case or documenter. I'm responsible for keeping a global perspective of the case and the efforts that are being made by everybody assisting.

Martin Minnella (05:47:44):

And isn't it true that you, as the lead investigator, the first thing you did was apply for a search warrant to get my client's phone, is that correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:47:58):

We had multiple search warrants that we had drafted and had gotten signed within the same timeframe.

Martin Minnella (05:48:08):

Can you answer that question, please?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:08):

Can you repeat that please?

Martin Minnella (05:48:09):

Yes. Did you apply for a warrant of the judge in superior court to get my guy's cell phone?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:16):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:48:17):

And why did you do that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:20):

We had probable cause to believe that there'd be evidence on the cell phone relevant to the investigation.

Martin Minnella (05:48:27):

And by that point in time, you were the lead investigator, correct?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:31):

Correct.

Martin Minnella (05:48:32):

And you seized the cell phone?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:35):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:48:35):

And what did you do next?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:37):

The cell phone was secured at Troop L.

Martin Minnella (05:48:42):

And what happened after that? What did you do next?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:45):

Ultimately, with a different search and seizure warrant, we had that cell phone extracted for the data on it.

Martin Minnella (05:48:53):

And was it extracted?

Ryan Slaiby (05:48:54):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:48:56):

And are you familiar with what the contents of the cell phone was?

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:01):

Yes. Some of it, yes.

Martin Minnella (05:49:03):

What part were you familiar with? Didn't you look at the whole extraction?

Speaker 17 (05:49:11):

This would all call for speculation. If you can direct him to a certain point-

Martin Minnella (05:49:14):

He's the lead investigator.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:49:16):

Let's not interrupt. The first question, then you went to another question. The first question was, were you familiar with the contents? You could ask him that.

Martin Minnella (05:49:24):

Were you familiar with the contents of the phone?

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:26):

Some of the contents, yes.

Martin Minnella (05:49:28):

All right. What are the contents you were familiar with?

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:31):

Some of the contents include phone calls, text messages, internet searches, things of that nature.

Martin Minnella (05:49:41):

And at some point in time, did you go to Schultz's garage?

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:45):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:49:46):

When was that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:48):

I couldn't cite the exact date.

Martin Minnella (05:49:51):

Well, give me an approximate date, if you can.

Ryan Slaiby (05:49:53):

I would approximate within the first, approximately, seven days, perhaps.

Martin Minnella (05:50:02):

And did you take notes in this case?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:03):

I did.

Martin Minnella (05:50:06):

Can I have your notes?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:07):

I don't have my notes with me.

Martin Minnella (05:50:08):

Where are your notes?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:09):

They're here in my bag.

Martin Minnella (05:50:12):

Can I have your notes?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:14):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:50:14):

Can you get them for me? Can you give me your notes?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:21):

I don't have them with me here.

Martin Minnella (05:50:23):

Where are they?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:23):

They're in an office.

Martin Minnella (05:50:26):

In an office?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:27):

Yes.

Martin Minnella (05:50:28):

Can we have a recess, Your Honor, so we can get the notes that I'm entitled to?

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:50:32):

We can move on to another topic, and then we could visit the notes and call the officer back.

Martin Minnella (05:50:40):

Sure. Okay. So when you went to the Schultz Corporation, what did you do?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:44):

At the Schultz Corporation, we canvassed for a possible video to collect as evidence.

Martin Minnella (05:50:50):

And who went with you there?

Ryan Slaiby (05:50:53):

I recall there were several of us. At least Sergeant Hazen was with me, and I don't recall the other detectives at the moment.

Martin Minnella (05:51:00):

Well, not their names, but how many individuals were there?

Ryan Slaiby (05:51:03):

I would say approximately at least three of us, perhaps.

Martin Minnella (05:51:06):

Three of you? And what did you do at the Schultz Corporation?

Ryan Slaiby (05:51:11):

We canvassed the property looking for possible surveillance cameras to collect video from.

Martin Minnella (05:51:16):

Did you find any surveillance cameras?

Ryan Slaiby (05:51:19):

We observed at least one camera.

Martin Minnella (05:51:22):

Did you get a search warrant for the results of that camera?

Ryan Slaiby (05:51:25):

No, we did not.

Martin Minnella (05:51:26):

Can you explain to us why you didn't?

Ryan Slaiby (05:51:29):

We spoke with the owner of the camera who told us that the camera was not working and had no footage.

Martin Minnella (05:51:34):

So this is a case involving the tragic death of a 17-and-a-half-year-old girl, and you're telling us because the owner of the Schultz Corporation told you the camera was broke, you never attempted to seize it. Is that your testimony?

Speaker 17 (05:51:56):

Argumentative.

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:51:57):

Well, testimony's already come in that he looked for surveillance and there was not a search warrant for the camera because the owner said it was not working. So there's no-

Martin Minnella (05:52:04):

So you never got a search warrant, did you, for that?

Ryan Slaiby (05:52:07):

No.

Martin Minnella (05:52:08):

Do you think it was... You're an investigator. You think it was important as an investigator to get a search warrant for a surveillance camera located at the Schultz Corporation?

Ryan Slaiby (05:52:24):

The one camera that we did see was fairly-

Martin Minnella (05:52:27):

I'm just-

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:52:28):

Let him answer the question, Attorney Minnella.

Martin Minnella (05:52:29):

Can he answer the question?

Speaker 17 (05:52:31):

He's trying.

Martin Minnella (05:52:32):

He's not responding-

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:52:34):

We're not going to have any bantering between the two attorneys at this point. We're going to ask a question, and the witness will answer the question.

Ryan Slaiby (05:52:42):

The one camera that we did observe was fairly removed from the main buildings where this party had occurred. And in addition to the information we had received that there was no footage on it, we deemed that perhaps, it would not have captured pertinent events that occurred at that party.

Martin Minnella (05:53:00):

Your Honor, can we approach?

Judge Chris Pelosi (05:54:02):

Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to call it for the day. It's 3:30. We need to... unless Detective Slaiby... Well... Ladies and gentlemen, it's 3:30. We're going to break for the day. I apologize that we're breaking a little early. Obviously, issues come up that the court has to address. So what we're going to do is come back tomorrow. I believe we are still on schedule. And again, leave your notebooks on the chair. Enjoy your evening. Please note-

‍

Topics:

No items found.

Keep reading

Melania Trump Speaks on Oleshky Ceasefire

CT v. Cooper Ouellette Day 5

OH v. Andrew Griffin Verdict

OH v. Andrew Griffin Day 7

CT v. Cooper Ouellette Day 4

James Talarico Victory Speech

CT v. Cooper Ouellette Day 5

Keep reading

Subscribe to The Rev Blog