Fentanyl Senate Hearing

Mr. Grassley (00:00):

"… watching Bailey marry the love of his life, have a mother-son dance, watch him buy his first home, watching him become a loving father and our joy of having more grandchildren. We will never know if any of his children, our grandchildren would have Bailey's curly hair, his cute smirky smile, or his twinkling blue eyes. There will always be an empty chair at our family gathering, whether it's Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, birthday, dinner parties. His voice and laughter will be forever silenced." Maybe the saddest part of the fentanyl crisis is that so many parents can tell a similar story of loss. In fact, we have many of them with us here today, including two of our witnesses. I want to tell the parents in the audience today, thank you for being here, thank you for making your voices heard, thank you for doing what you can do to keep other parents from going through what they've gone through.

(01:20)
How long do we have to keep suffering through this attack on our children? This is not an easy problem to solve, but there are certain parts of the problem that are simple to address. For one thing, common sense, border control will help stem the flow of fentanyl. We have no idea how many pounds of fentanyl were carried in the got-aways. That will never show up in any statistics. We also have no idea how many surges of illegal immigrants have been used by the cartels as distraction to push drugs through our understaffed ports of entry. Thankfully, the Trump administration has taken this threat seriously. Another simple thing to address is fentanyl knockoff. Fentanyl is a substance easily changed by drug cartels to bypass the legal scheduling while becoming even more deadly. That's why in 2018 the Drug Enforcement Administration scheduled fentanyl drug-offs as a class using a formula created by an emergency room doctor. He's here today and I thank you for coming and he'll tell us more about that problem. Congress temporarily extended the scheduling over and over. We've played this game for too long. It's time to make this temporary scheduling permanent so that the drug cartels do not have the opportunity to flood our country with even deadlier versions of fentanyl. Last week, Senator Cassidy and I introduced a bipartisan bill to do just that. Seven Democratic senators co-sponsored it. We should pass that bill quickly because of the temporary scheduling that we last passed expires again on March 31st. We must get this done. We must also support President Trump's attempt to secure the border and deal with the Mexican drug cartel. Americans' children need us to act and I'm glad to have Senator Durbin speak now, but I'm also glad that he's sympathetic to what we're trying to do because I know you know it's a problem.

Senator Durbin (04:02):

Certainly do, Chairman Grassley, and I'm glad you held this hearing. This is a bipartisan issue as it should be to discuss fentanyl and the devastating impact that opioid addiction has on America. In just a decade, this synthetic opioid has emerged as the deadliest drug in American history. All it takes is two milligrams, that's a fraction of the size of a penny, to cause an overdose. It is so cheap that dealers are lacing lethal amounts into street drugs like cocaine and heroin, and their buyers are none the wiser. There's an overdose crisis in America, but we've learned that evidence-based solutions reduce death. In fact, in 2023, overdose deaths actually decreased for the first time since 2018, going down by more than 10%. We need to look at every factor that contributes to this reduction. Counseling and treatment, training for first responders, naloxone to our hardest-hit communities, all make a difference.

(05:11)
We must also address how this poison gets in the hands of the most vulnerable people in America, our kids. Too often fentanyl was peddled in the open on some of the world's largest social media platforms. Last Congress, the Judiciary Committee advanced several bipartisan bills that would finally hold these companies accountable and demand safeguards be put in place to protect our children. One of the bills is the Cooper Davis Act. Cooper is a sixteen-year-old Kansas teen who tragically lost his life to a fentanyl-laced pill he bought through Snapchat. This bill would require big tech companies to take a more proactive role in stopping drug dealers from using their platforms. Sadly, Cooper is not the only teen who has lost his life to drugs peddled on social media. Bridgette Norring is here to testify today. Her son, Devin, tragically died after taking a fentanyl-laced pill he thought was Percocet that he purchased over Snapchat.

(06:17)
There's a lawsuit that she'll tell us about from the parents of those who were victims through Snapchat. In the coming days, I'll join Senators Marshall, Shaheen, and others to reintroduce what we call Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act. I hope the committee will again advance this critical legislation on a bipartisan basis and I hope that Congress will finally allow these companies to be sued by their victims' families so they could be held accountable in a court of law. Enough teens have died due to Big Tech's deliberate indifference. We must also acknowledge the role the US has played in arming cartels to the teeth. We send hundreds of thousands of firearms south of our border in an Iron River and the cartels cash men. They facilitate the use of violence to traffic fentanyl into the United States. Both state and federal law enforcement agencies are on the front lines of protecting our communities from fentanyl and other opioids, but detection is getting more difficult.

(07:22)
Fentanyl is so potent and moved in quantities so small that high-value shipments can easily be hidden. As a result, law enforcement need access to technology and resources to quickly and efficiently detect these drugs. This includes expanding non-intrusive inspection capability, making lifesaving naloxone widely available, and adequately funding state and local law enforcement. The funding freeze, which you're talking about, if it's going to stop the efforts of law enforcement to combat fentanyl is a bad idea. The same is true of the recent order diverting federal law enforcement agents, including from the DEA and ATF, away from combating fentanyl and firearms trafficked by cartels and working instead on a mass deportation effort.

(08:12)
As a reminder, the vast majority of fentanyl and other illegal drugs enter the US and are smuggled by American citizens through legal ports of entry. I'm also gravely concerned about the negative impact of mass removals of senior career law enforcement at Department of Justice and FBI and our ability to hold traffickers accountable and cut off the supply of fentanyl. The recent actions we've seen distract us from the need to take a comprehensive bipartisan approach to tackling this crisis, including investing in addiction prevention and treatment, enforcing and strengthening our gun laws, giving federal, state, and local law enforcement the resources they need to do their jobs effectively. Getting fentanyl off the streets is a Herculean task that will require all of us to come together and work across the aisle to make this country healthier and safer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Grassley (09:11):

Thank you. I'm going to introduce the majority witnesses and Senator Durbin is going to introduce his witnesses and then I wanted to announce that at approximately seven or eight minutes to 11, I'm going to leave the committee meeting to open the Senate and Senator Cornyn will act as Chairman while I'm gone. Our first witness, Jaime Puerta, is a US Marine Corps veteran, president of an organization, Victims of Illicit Drugs, and that goes by the acronym VOID for short, which is an organization he found after he lost his six-year-old son, Daniel, to fentanyl. VOID is a nonprofit dedicated to educating parents and children about the dangers of drug use and social media platforms. Mr. Puerta, I think I speak for everyone on this committee when I say that we're deeply sorry for the loss of your son.

(10:13)
Next, Mr. Tom Westlake is a driving force behind today's class scheduling policy and has fought against the drug epidemic for over 30 years. He's a full-time emergency room physician and a part-time medical regulator in Wisconsin. He also provides medical direction for a statewide peer-to-peer drug recovery program. In the past, Dr. Westlake has served as chairman of the Wisconsin Medical Examining Board and was formerly a member of Wisconsin's controlled substance board. Finally, Sheriff Don Barnes, thank you, sheriff, is Sheriff-Coroner of Orange County, California. He leads around 44,000 employees, operates one of the nation's largest county jail systems, and manages the Orange County Crime Lab. Sheriff Barnes also serves as a Major County Sheriffs of America's Vice President for Homeland Security and as their chairman of the Intelligence Commander Group. Thank you all for once again being here today. I'll turn it over to Ranking Member Durbin now to introduce.

Senator Durbin (11:41):

Thank you, Chairman Grassley. I want to welcome Dr. Cecilia Farfán Mendez, an affiliated researcher with the Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation at UC San Diego, an expert on organized crime and US-Mexico security. She co-founded the Mexico Violence Resource Project, which provides information, analysis, research, and resources for understanding violence and organized crime in Mexico. I also welcome Bridgette Norring, who is a survivor parent to her son, Devin, and a social media reform advocate. Ms. Norring founded the Devin Norring Foundation to raise awareness and educate children, parents, caregivers, and communities about the dangers of illicit drugs. She's a member of Parents for Safe Online Spaces, which advocates for online safety for kids. Mr. Norring, I read your testimony and the loss of your son was so graphic and so touching. Thank you for sharing. Mr. Puerta, I read yours as well. It's just heartbreaking as you described those five days or six days in the hospital before you lost your son. Any of us who've lost a child know exactly what you went through. We'll never forget it. Thank you both for being… Thank all the witnesses for being with us today.

Senator Cornyn (13:12):

Ranking Member Durbin, I believe you're up first. Well, let's go ahead and hear from the witnesses. Mr. Puerta, would you have an opening statement for the committee, please?

Jaime Puerta (13:24):

Good morning, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, and esteemed members of this committee. My name is Jaime Puerta and I'm the president and co-founder of Victims of Illicit Drugs, VOID, and co-chair of Project Facing Fentanyl. Joining me today are Mr. Steve Filson, a retired police officer and secretary treasurer of VOID, as well as Ms. Andrea Thomas, chair of Project Facing fentanyl and Ms. Gretchen Peters, CEO of Alliance to Counter Crimes Online and other family members who have endured the profound loss of a loved one due to illicit fentanyl. VOID, a California-based nonprofit organization was established to educate, advocate, and raise public awareness about the devastating dangers of illicit fentanyl and other synthetic analogs. Today I stand before you to give voice to the countless lives lost, including my own son, Daniel Puerta Johnson. My son was not a habitual drug user by any sense of the word, nor had he had been diagnosed with substance use disorder, but he was diagnosed with ADHD and depression.

(14:31)
On April 1st, 2020, at the very beginning of the pandemic, I walked into my son's room and found him practically lifeless in his bed. In a state of shock and panic, I called 911 first, then his mother. Emergency services arrived at our home and immediately began CPR and naloxone was administered. He was then transported to Los Angeles Children's Hospital where a team of specialty doctors did everything they could to bring our son back, but unfortunately were unsuccessful in bringing him out of his catatonic state. His health had become much worse from the day that he had been admitted and all they could do was to keep him comfortable until his mother, Denise, and I made the agonizing decision to discontinue all life support efforts. On April 6th, 2020 at 3:45 PM all life support was discontinued. His mother, Denise, got into his hospital bed and laid next to him, gently stroking his beautiful head of dark brown hair, and I was holding his right hand when he drew his last breath at exactly 5:08 PM of that April 6th when he quietly passed away.

(15:48)
I kissed the bridge of his nose like I did on most nights when saying good night and left the hospital to go home without my son utterly broken, devastated, angry, and confused. After my son's passing, I was contacted by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office and I was told that my son had died due to an "overdose." Half a blue pill, which I later came to find out looked exactly like a pharmaceutical-grade blue M30 oxycodone pill had been found on his dresser. It was sent to the laboratory for analysis and found that the pill which had taken my son's life was illicit fentanyl. My son had consumed what he thought was a blue M30 oxycodone pill, but in fact had unknowingly, I repeat, unknowingly ingested an illicitly manufactured counterfeit opioid made of nothing more than filler, a binding agent, and illicit fentanyl. This was deceptively made to look exactly like a pharmaceutical-grade oxycodone pill and it killed him.

(16:51)
I have shared Daniel's story countless times, yet the problem worsens. Illicit fentanyl remains an insidious threat, so what can we do? Our organization believes that knowledge saves lives, but we also need legislative action. The Halt Fentanyl Act currently under consideration is a vital tool in this fight. Illicit fentanyl has no medical use and is highly addictive, warranting its classification as a Schedule 1 substance under the Controlled Substances Act. For too long this legislation has stalled despite clear evidence of its necessity. My son Daniel's death is just one of countless tragedies caused by this epidemic. His story is one of hope extinguished, of a family left broken, but it is also a call to action. No family should have to endure the pain that we have suffered. We have the tools to address this crisis. What we need now is the will to act. I urge you, I beg you to act decisively and combat this crisis. Thank you for inviting me and my fellow bereaved parents to this esteemed committee. Thank you.

Senator Cornyn (18:19):

Thank you, Mr. Puerta. Mrs. Norring.

Bridgette Norring (18:23):

Thank you, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, and members of the committee. My name is Bridgette Norring. I'm a wife, mother, grandmother, advocate and founder of the Devin J. Norring Foundation, a foundation I wish didn't even have to be in existence. Today marks another month that my son, Devin Joseph Norring, was taken from my family at the age of 19, well before he ever got the chance to really begin life. You see, Senators, that is how parents like myself now measure time. It goes by the weeks, months, or years it has been since their children lost their lives. Devin was your average teenager. He had a passion for football, skateboarding, BMXing, and music. He was smart as a whip when it came to anything mathematical. He was his siblings, Haley and Kayden's biggest protector. He had plans to go to California the summer of 2020 to look into schools to continue his music education and become the musician he wanted to be.

(19:17)
Unfortunately, he never made it. He had been suffering from blackout migraines and dental pain that he'd been under doctor's care for and at the height of the pandemic, those appointments were canceled and we believe Devin was desperate by any means necessary to treat the pain. The morning after Devin and an acquaintance went on to Snapchat and connected with a drug dealer, he was found unresponsive in his bedroom by his then fourteen-year-old brother, Kayden. His bedroom should have been the safest place in the world and as I held him one last time, I promised my son I would do something. We later learned that Devin was poisoned by fentanyl, a single pill with enough fentanyl to kill multiple people. I now also know that social media platforms are one of the primary sources which unsuspecting teens buy all types of drugs with the majority of them containing fentanyl.

(20:07)
Senators, this crisis has many facets and each should be addressed with care, empathy, and courage. Education, supply and demand issues, a lack of accessible, affordable mental health and recovery programs, and holding drug dealers and traffickers accountable for the devastating loss of life are all important issues to address, but we must do more. It is critical that we address social media platforms that facilitate drug peddling to children, platforms which make these connections as a matter of design and then profit from them. We cannot say we are protecting our children until we face this fact and pass legislation to stop it. In the spring of 2021, myself and several families were invited to meet with executives from Snapchat.

(20:53)
Today that meeting is what drives my fuel for social media reform. Snapchat's executives claimed that they had no idea this was happening even though Snapchat and other platforms have been used for drug sales for years and this has been widely reported by the media. They blamed us as parents and told us that due to Section 230, we had no power to hold them accountable in court. Senators, if someone opened a brick and mortar store and sold these drugs to our children out of that store, we would be held accountable, we would be shut down so fast, so I asked why did the same rules not apply to social media? Since losing Devin, my family has watched drug dealers continue operating on Snapchat, Instagram, Telegram, and while we got zero justice for Devin's death, I'm proud to say we aided in the indictments of individuals with ties to the Sinaloa Cartel in Minneapolis. I believe there were 19 members of that indictment. I'm grateful to the Hastings Police Department, Dakota County Drug Task Force, and US attorney Andrew Lugar's work on this case. In speaking about Devin's story with middle and high school students, kids have shared the toll Snapchat takes on their mental health and how on average they are spending 26 plus hours a week on these platforms. That's why my family and so many others fight hard to support the Kids' Online Safety Act. I thank Senators Blumenthal and Blackburn for spearheading this vital legislation on behalf of our children because KOSA is the crucial foundation for social media reform. I am blessed to work with my congressional representative, Senator Amy Klobuchar and Representative Angie Craig. I want to thank Congresswoman Craig for introducing the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act and Senator Klobuchar for acting on her commitment and promise to help parents achieve accountability for big tech. Parents like me, Mr. Puerta, Amy Neville, Andrea Thomas, Steve Filson, and thousands of others cannot do this alone. We look to you to pass KOSA and the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act. We need you to stand with us and enact these pieces of legislation so that our country's kids have a fighting chance and stop losing their lives. I thank you. I'm honored to be here and look forward to your questions.

Senator Cornyn (23:06):

Thank you, Ms. Norring, Dr. Westlake.

Dr. Timothy Westlake (23:12):

Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify and for your leadership. Before I talk science, I wanted to tell you the last time I used Narcan. It was just days ago. It was a quiet night shift in the emergency department and I was mulling over my testimony for this very hearing when I had to rush out to a car that screeched into the ambulance bay. It was driven by the girlfriend of a patient who took what he thought was a Percocet. It was actually a lethal dose of fentanyl. He wasn't breathing and was about to go into cardiac arrest. We pulled him out and quickly him with Narcan. Within a minute, he went from being blue and pulseless to being wide awake. He went home with his family that night. He was lucky this time.

(23:55)
This is my reality and that of so many emergency physicians across America. We have a problem in this country and it requires all of us to work together to solve it. First, I'd like to clarify what fentanyl-related substances or FRSs are and why permanently scheduling them as a class is a critical policy tool. FRSs are highly active opioids, almost identical to fentanyl except for a tiny difference in their chemical structure created by changing a single ingredient during synthesis. The result of this tweak is a new potent opioid with the same deadly effects as fentanyl and without class scheduling would be legal until it caused numerous deaths.

(24:33)
Fentanyls are so toxic and lethal that they can be classified and have actually been used as chemical weapons. The lethal dose is merely two milligrams, equivalent to five grains of sand, meaning that one teaspoon can kill 2000 people. That is what is in this packet of sugar. It could kill 2000 people if this were fentanyl. Telling parents tragically on more than one occasion, even friends of mine, that their child will never come home is the worst part of my job. In fact, the inspiration for FRS class scheduling arose out of the tragedy of my friend Laurie Bedura's son, Archie. Archie was an altar server with my daughters. He started with prescription opioids, then moved to heroin, and unknowingly fentanyl. I resuscitated Archie on his second to last overdose.

(25:23)
At that time, I pulled out a body bag, laid it down next to him, and warned him that that's where he'd end up if he didn't seek help. He stayed clean for six months until illicit fentanyl ended his life. One of the last things my friend Laurie saw of her son Archie was him being zipped up into a body bag. Motivated to act by hundreds of such deaths, FRS scheduling legislation came together quickly and was enacted unanimously in Wisconsin legislature in 2017. DEA adopted it as national policy shortly thereafter, but only Congress can make it permanent. Some who oppose point to deaths from illicit fentanyl as proof that it doesn't work, but this is a misunderstanding of the facts.

(26:05)
FRS scheduling does not address illicit fentanyl. It was never designed to do so. It only removed the incentive for legal chemical companies to create new FRSs, thus stopping them from ever existing in the first place. There is no quick and easy solution to the scourge of illicit fentanyl, but the solution to FRSs is a simple legislative fix, one that you have before you right now. At its core, FRS scheduling is not an extension of the war on drugs or law enforcement strategy designed to incarcerate. There have been a total of eight federal prosecutions under the language as of 2021, half of which had already been to have ties to drug cartels.

(26:45)
As well there has never been a prosecution for a non-bioactive FRS because there are none. All fentanyl-related substances encountered to date have been found to have potent opioid activity. One of them is 7,000 times more potent than morphine. However, if Schedule 1 penalties were removed for FRS trafficking, then it would re-incentivize their creation and significantly weaken the law's most powerful, proactive, and preventative effects. There is a time and place for criminal justice reform, but FRS scheduling is not it. Some suggest FRS scheduling would have a negative impact on research. While theoretical, it has been addressed with stakeholder input and is supported by the very agencies and organizations representing academic scientific research, including the NIH, HHS, FDA, and the National Institute of Drug Abuse.

(27:37)
The Halt Fentanyl Act would significantly loosen restrictions into studying all Schedule 1 substances, not just FRSs and open up promising areas of substance abuse research. In conclusion, for the past six years, FRS scheduling has been federal policy. As the primary architect of the Wisconsin law, I could not be more pleased. In a few short years, the creation and distribution of new FRSs has ground to a halt. In our battle against fentanyl, the elimination of related substances that had previously escaped our scheduling and devastated communities across the nation is surely one bright spot, but Congress must take action and permanently closed the spigot of FRSs. The fact is you can't die from adjusting something never created nor can you be incarcerated for trafficking something that does not exist. That's the beauty and simplicity of FRS scheduling. Thanks again for this time and I look forward to answering your questions.

Senator Cornyn (28:32):

Doctor, I'm going to introduce you, but I don't want to get your last name mispronounced. Is it Farfán?

Cecilia Farfán (28:40):

Correct.

Senator Cornyn (28:40):

Okay, good. I guessed correctly. I'd be happy to hear your opening statement.

Cecilia Farfán (28:45):

Thank you. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin, and members of the committee, thank you for conducting this hearing and the opportunity to explain why saving lives in North America requires productive engagement with Mexico. I appreciate the invitation to participate. I am an expert on organized crime and US-Mexico security cooperation. As an alumna of the Fulbright program, I am convinced that transnational problems require transnational solutions. To the families who testified today, I acknowledge your grief. There are no actions that can reverse the tragedies you have experienced. My testimony today does not seek to invalidate yours. On the contrary, it is precisely because I have witnessed and collaborated with families on both sides of the border that have lost loved ones to overdoses, homicides, and disappearances that I am here to offer what I believe is a more helpful and sustainable path forward.

(29:38)
On January 22nd, Secretary Rubio stated that America's foreign policy must be justified by answering three simple questions. "Does it make America safer? Does it make America stronger? Does it make America more prosperous?" As a scholar who has dedicated her professional career to studying and working towards constructive US-Mexico relations, it is my strong professional opinion that the United States can only be safer, stronger, and prosperous if its neighbors are afforded the same opportunity. Suffering on both sides of the border is inextricably linked. The US is facing one of its worst public health crisis due to the availability of illicitly manufactured fentanyl and Mexico faces its own lethal epidemic with 70% of homicides perpetrated with a firearm. More than 40% of Americans know someone who has died from an opioid overdose. Equal important, homicide is the leading cause of death for men ages 25 to 44 and the second cause of death for women ages 15 to 24 in Mexico.

(30:38)
Worryingly the urgency to save lives is reviving the worst policy failures of the war on drugs. With thousands of lives at risk on both sides of the border, it is urgent that the US and Mexico implement policies based on facts. Through their public sectors, civil society, and academia, both countries have developed robust evidence on how to acquire and maintain the health and safety of our communities. Fentanyl and firearms trafficking have changed dynamics in criminal markets, but these changes are not as simple as prevailing narratives of organized crime suggest. Even though places like Sinaloa, Mexico have been portrayed as a Shangri-La for criminality, transnational drug trafficking in Mexico to the US is not masterminded by three men hiding in the mountains.

(31:22)
There is no special narco highway connecting the highlands of Sinaloa to the street of LA or Philadelphia, but actors in Mexico and the US that take advantage of legal economies for the advancement of illicit activities. For example, the most recent data from the US Sentencing Commission shows that for fiscal year 2023, 86.4% of people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking were US citizens. Serious policy conversations on addressing mortality caused by synthetic drugs cannot be separate from firearms trafficking. Low production costs are often cited as a key reason suppliers moved away from heroin and into synthetic opioids like fentanyl. Overlooked in this conversation is that the same has happened with firearms and ammunition.

(32:08)
The ease of acquiring firearms from the US has lowered the cost of perpetrating violence for criminal groups in Mexico. Even though there are significant variations as to the frequency and ways criminal groups use violence, they all must issue credible threats on their ability to perpetrate this violence. Their businesses depend on it. The newer and the more sophisticated the armament is, then the more credible these threats become. Why intimidate potential victims with a rifle left over from the Mexican Revolution when your arsenal can include 50 caliber weapons? This strategy has paid off for organized crime, including those involved in fentanyl trafficking.

(32:48)
According to data released by the ATF, of the firearms recovered in Mexico that were submitted for tracing, more than two-thirds were sourced from the US. Today, 74% of Mexicans believe criminal groups have more and better weapons than the armed forces. Access to legally trafficked weapons from the US has allowed Mexican criminal groups to amass both a tremendous capacity for violence and a troubling capacity to intimidate. Simply stated, by failing to address firearms trafficking to Mexico, the US is subsidizing the operating costs of criminal groups. It is as if cartels receive an annual aid package with state-of-the-art technology to carry out the crimes this Congress wants to stop. Our shared tragedies are two sides of the same coin. The silver lining is that there's no secret solution awaiting to be discovered. Actions available to Congress like the Stop Arming Cartels Act can contribute to stemming the devastating effects this public health crisis and must be implemented through US-Mexico Security Cooperation. Thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions.

Senator Cornyn (33:54):

Sheriff Barnes.

Donald Barnes (33:58):

Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I'm here representing the Major County Sheriffs of America, a professional law enforcement association of the 100 largest sheriffs in the nation, serving more than one-third of our nation's population. As Sheriff of Orange County, I lead an agency of more than 4,000 men and women serving 3.1 million residents. Orange County consistently ranks as one of the safest in the nation, but like every community, we have felt the devastating impacts of the fentanyl crisis. The fentanyl epidemic is one of the most pressing public safety and public health crises to impact our nation. In just a few short years, nationwide drug-related deaths have tripled, a direct correlation to the prevalence of fentanyl.

(34:46)
While we saw a slight decrease in nationwide fatalities in 2023, the numbers remain alarmingly high with annual deaths still approaching 100,000 annually. In California, we saw fentanyl deaths increase from 239 in

Donald Barnes (35:00):

… in 2016, nearly 7,000 in 2023. Mexico based cartels taking advantage of the crisis at our border have flooded our communities with deadly fentanyl. This is evident by the drug seizures made by my department's investigative teams. Over the past four years, these teams have seized a total of 1,551 pounds of fentanyl powder and over 3 million clandestine produced fentanyl pills. What's even more alarming than the sheer volume is the dramatic increase in seizures during that same time period. Since 2021, my investigative teams seized 16,278 pills, whereas in 2024, that number skyrocketed to over 2 million. And that's just my agency alone.

(35:45)
The fight against the fentanyl epidemic in California is incredibly challenging given our close proximity to the border, national drug trends, and our state's permissive drug laws. Proposition 47 passed in 2014 largely decriminalized most drug and property crimes. Our attempts to seek action by the state legislature largely fell on deaf ears. When we first saw the signs of fentanyl in 2025, we proposed legislation that enhanced penalties for trafficking fentanyl similar to trafficking cocaine and heroin. This bill failed year after year after year while deaths continued to increase. Sadly, in some instances our proposal was met with ridicule by those far too devoted to extreme anti-incarceration policies.

(36:32)
We also faced complications due to California sanctuary laws, which limits our communication with our federal partners. Despite this grim picture, there is hope. In Orange County, we have seen fentanyl deaths fall from a high of 717 in 2021 to 613 in 2023, while the state continues to rise. This progress is a result of our ongoing multi-faceted strategy that focuses on both supply and demand for illicit drugs. The strategy includes investing dollars in narcotics teams and resources, working with the US attorney to prosecute individuals who sell drugs that result in the death of another, creating a new innovative drug education program taught in our schools. Since 2016, deputies who carry Naloxone have resulted in over 600 lives saved within our community.

(37:22)
In our jails, we have created SUD step-down units and have a medication assisted treatment program serving more than 1300 people every day. Congress can help this progress by moving forward many of the initiatives authored and supported by members of this committee. First and foremost, we must permanently schedule fentanyl analogs as a schedule one drug. The House is taking up the HALT Fentanyl Act this week. I want to thank Chairman Grassley, members of the committee for leading this effort in the Senate. HIDTA funding increases would be a significant help. Funding for HIDTA has remained static over the last 10 years. MCSA is grateful that members of this committee are prioritizing the reauthorization of HIDTA.

(38:02)
We look forward to working with you to advance legislation like the HIDTA Enhancement Act, which would have reauthorized the HIDTA program at $333 million annually. We need to protect law enforcement tools. MCSA strongly opposes legislation that would restrict or eliminate law enforcement's access to data necessary to investigate fentanyl trafficking organizations. We also advocate for providing law enforcement with lawful access to encrypted devices, which is crucial for identifying those responsible for distributing lethal fentanyl. Lastly, MCSA supports bipartisan legislation crucial for addressing SUD within the criminal justice system by focusing on continuous care, successful reintegration, and most importantly, sustained sobriety post-release from our jails.

(38:49)
I'm honored to be here today and I'm looking forward to answering your questions.

Senator Cornyn (38:54):

Thank you, Sheriff. I'll start by around the questions and then we'll turn to Senator Durbin. Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, I think it's only appropriate that we should express our condolences for your loss. When things like this happen, I usually try to figure out, well, is there any way we can take something terrible and tragic and hopefully learn some lessons and make things better and save lives in the future? And so thank you for being courageous and telling your story. I know it's not easy, but it's very important for people across this country to understand how this can happen to them and their family.

(39:39)
And having visited with a number of families in Texas, it's various school districts, I've come to believe that this requires a layered approach, maybe starting at the kitchen table with awareness of our children to the threat because none of them take these counterfeit drugs knowingly, at least knowing that it will take their lives, that it contains a contaminated fentanyl. But I do believe it's going to require all of us from parents, families, to school districts, and local law enforcement, state and federal law enforcement and border security. Sheriff Barnes, it's my understanding that most of the chemicals that go into fentanyl basically have been traced back to China. Is that your understanding as well?

Donald Barnes (40:35):

Yes, Senator, there is an issue with precursor chemicals transiting from China through our US ports and directly to China. Yes.

Senator Cornyn (40:43):

And as I understand some of the announcements relating to the tariffs that President Trump has announced, his administration has said this isn't so much a trade policy as it is an anti-fentanyl policy to finally get the Chinese government's attention to do something about the precursors that emanate from that country. But then as you point out, they make their way to Mexico where the cartels are putting them into pill presses and making them look like relatively innocuous drugs only to turn out to be contaminated with fentanyl and take the lives of people unbeknownst to them. Do you believe that with improved border security, we can begin to stop some of the flow of the illicit drugs coming across the border, including fentanyl?

Donald Barnes (41:35):

Yes, Senator, what you described is a very complex system, almost a supply chain that starts in China using transit, going to Mexico, the pill presses. It's not doing any one thing, it's doing 12 things simultaneously. So I do believe that addressing this issue is much more complicated than just any one thing. The HALT Act is a great start, but when you look at the pill presses, pressing pills, that's one issue. The border obviously is going to be the most significant issue as we shut down the border and the pathway for illicit fentanyl to make its way back into the United States, but it's that and many other things that have to take place.

Senator Cornyn (42:13):

I've heard Senator Durbin's statement, which I disagree with that says that the vast majority of the fentanyl comes across the ports of entry transported by American citizens. Is there anybody on the panel who subscribes to that point of view? Dr. Farfan, do you think any one of the 1.7 million gotaways during the last four years have been transporting fentanyl?

Cecilia Farfán (42:45):

1.7 million of?

Senator Cornyn (42:50):

Well, during the Biden administration, out of the millions of people that were welcomed into the country and released, there were 1.7 million that appeared on various sensors, cameras and things like that, that evaded law enforcement and made their way into the interior of the United States. Do you think one of those 1.7 million individuals that were evading law enforcement were transporting fentanyl?

Cecilia Farfán (43:16):

I mean, to restate what I mentioned in my testimony, data from the US Sentencing Commission shows that 86.4 people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking in fiscal year 2023 were US citizens.

Senator Cornyn (43:28):

And that's not my question.

Cecilia Farfán (43:29):

I would also add-

Senator Cornyn (43:30):

My question is about the people who evaded law enforcement. Is it possible that some of them, or maybe even many of them were transporting illicit drugs, including fentanyl?

Cecilia Farfán (43:42):

Someone who studies organized crime, that would be a really bad business decision. Drug traffickers deal with a lot of-

Senator Cornyn (43:51):

It sounds to me like a very profitable decision on the part of the cartels to evade law enforcement and to be able to deliver your drugs, your load into the United States only to make a lot of money from it. Why is that a bad business decision?

Cecilia Farfán (44:05):

Because from a business point of view, you would prefer to have smugglers who have a legal right to entry into the United States than an immigrant who is uncertain whether or not he or she's going to cross into the United States. So if you're looking at it from the point of view of will we turn a profit or not in this particular shipment, putting your shipment in the hands of an immigrant who does not have a legal right to enter into the US is actually a bad business decision.

Senator Cornyn (44:31):

Sheriff Barnes, do you agree with that?

Donald Barnes (44:34):

I do not. There's two different facets here. You have the trafficking of the narcotic, which is oftentimes in large bulk in our experience in intervention and interdiction as those are oftentimes residents of Mexico. The distribution of that or sales of it, I think to Dr. Farfan's Point, might oftentimes be carried out by US citizens and the drug trafficking market. So it's a combination of both, but the vast majority of the large quantities coming across has been my experience are being conducted by Mexican nationals. The distribution and sales inside the country of United States oftentimes has been carried out by US citizens.

Mr. Grassley (45:15):

Thank you. Senator Durbin.

Senator Durbin (45:18):

Thank you all for being here. How many of you, would this be your first time to see the Senate Judiciary Committee? Would you raise your hand? A few of our witnesses and others, the first time. This is an interesting committee. It represents the spectrum of politics in the United States Senate. We have the most Republican Republicans and the most Democratic Democrats sitting on this committee. So you won't be surprised that many times we disagree and that disagreement sometimes leads to good speeches, but very few laws. But there was an exception. Two years ago we took up this issue and started talking about what we could do to stop the spread of fentanyl and the deadly impact it's having on America.

(46:08)
And we actually voted him this committee on a bipartisan basis unanimously for five measures that dealt with social media. Your point Mrs. Norring, if Snapchat were a store on the corner selling fentanyl-laden Percocets and it happened one time and they could be sued, that would be the end of the story. But we learned through section 230 that social media gets off the hook. Mrs. Norring, you're joining families I understand that are trying to hold them responsible for your son's death and other deaths as well. I couldn't support you more. Now let me tell you what happened. We passed bills in this committee holding big tech and social media responsible, unanimously. Now, there were four or five new members of the committee, but every member of the committee two years ago voted for it. Democrat and Republican, conservative and liberal, all voted for the measure. And what happened as a result of that combined bipartisan effort? Nothing. Nothing. Speeches. That's what happened. We failed as Democrats in the majority in the Senate. The Republicans failed as the majority in the House to pass any measure. There I said it. Democrats, bear responsibility and Republicans as well. We've got to be honest about this. Why would something as popular and as obvious as that fail before the Congress? Well, because there were powerful forces that have a lot of money at stake and don't want liability, who will piously and publicly say they love this measure.

(47:53)
It makes all the sense to the world. And then when the doors close and they get a chance to speak to members individually, they flip and they take the opposite position and nothing happens. Chuck Grassley is my friend. I've gotten in trouble for that, but I'm proud of it. We go back a long ways. I went to him yesterday and said, "This time, you're the chairman." I'm the ranking Democrat. I'm here to help you pass legislation to do something. I'm sick and tired of excuses being made and people dying as a result of it. And I think it's time for us on a bipartisan basis to find things we agree with. Now, I don't know where the sources are. I think Dr. Farfan makes a valid argument. Sheriff Barnes, I respect very much your responsibility and law enforcement and have a different point of view.

(48:45)
We may never resolve that basic question, but I think we can all resolve, we don't care where the hell it's coming from. We want it to stop. We want to stop it in China. We want to stop it in Mexico. We want to stop it in our backyards and however it's getting into the United States. So to those who are familiar with this committee, this is where it has to start. We won't agree on every aspect, everything as a result of it, but we can agree on some basics that make a difference. Mrs. Norring, you've testified before about your son and the loss of his life. Senator Klobuchar told me that, and I'd like to ask you what the families are doing that you've gathered with to hold Snapchat and others liable.

Bridgette Norring (49:29):

So the families and I, Mr. Puerta, Amy Neville is sitting behind me. We filed suit against Snapchat. We are in the process of making it through the courts as we speak. Oh my God, how many? They have hundreds of cases behind ours. For a while it was looking pretty grim. I mean, Snapchat has been immune for so long and it's now making its way through. We just got word that we're going into discovery.

Senator Durbin (50:04):

Mr. Puerta?

Jaime Puerta (50:05):

Yes, sir. It passed out judge Lawrence riff on January 4th, 2023, I believe, accepted the lawsuit and I'm sorry, 2024. Not on the basis of free speech, but on the basis of product design. That went on to the appellate court in California and the appellate court ruled in our favor for the lawsuit to go forward. So right now we are in discovery. No other lawsuit against any major social media company has gotten as far as ours, sir.

Senator Durbin (50:39):

I wish you well. I'll close by saying we're dealing with fentanyl and the deadly aspects of that drug, and we're also dealing with sexual exploitation, particularly of children, and a number of members here have shown real leadership. Senator Blackburn on the Republican side and Senator Blumenthal on the Democratic side especially. We all have bills. We can do this. Hold this responsible. Don't just come and leave and think nothing's going to happen. It's our job to make sure it does happen and do the right thing for you and your families. Thank you very much.

Mr. Grassley (51:12):

And I thank Senator Durbin for bringing up our conversation that we had yesterday on the floor of the United States Senate, and I suggested to him then, but I want our staffs to know that our staff should sit down and see what can be worked out. You bet. Now I'll ask questions and I'll call on Klobuchar. Leading up to this hearing, my office received 58 letters from grieving families who lost loved ones to fentanyl. I want to offer those letters into the record and thank the families for writing them. So without objection, that will be done. One mother wrote, "Families like mine have been sharing our stories of loss to this poison since before 2018. Open to ignite action among our leaders.

(52:07)
Tragically, despite hundreds of thousands of stories like mine over countless years, we have yet to see a massive, unified effort necessary to stop this poisoning of our generations." Many of these letters urged Congress to pass the legislation that goes by the acronym HALT fentanyl, which would make the class scheduling of fentanyl's related substances very permanent. Mr. Puerta, Dr. Westlake, Sheriff Barnes, in that order, could you each briefly explain why permanent class scheduling is important to tackling this crisis?

Jaime Puerta (52:54):

I believe that it'll increase penalties for trafficking and distribution. It also will streamline prosecution by removing the burden of proving whether a particular fentanyl analog is harmful. It would be illegal by default, and it would give authorities greater flexibility as well to target emerging fentanyl analogs before they flood the market.

Mr. Grassley (53:16):

Dr. Westlake.

Dr. Timothy Westlake (53:18):

So I think it goes back to the whole point of me coming up with this idea was to stop the creation of these. So what this does is it stops them from existing to begin with. We looked at all the possible bioactive modifications to the fentanyl molecule and surgically scheduled those modifications. And so what it's done and it's proven to be done so is it stopped them from existing in the first place. So no one's going to jail for them. No one's dying from them because they don't exist. It's the perfect form of prevention.

(53:47)
The best place to hit a disease is at the beginning. If you can stop a diabetic from becoming diabetic, they're not going to have the problems of having their leg amputated or being on dialysis later. That's what this does is this stops the very existence. It's one spigot. Illicit fentanyl is a huge fire hydrant. This is one spigot, but Congress can turn it off and that's what they should do.

Mr. Grassley (54:09):

Thank you. Sheriff Barnes.

Donald Barnes (54:12):

Chairman Grassley. I'll summarize the two previous speakers this way. First with the Controlled Substances Act, not including it as an analog, we saw this happen with methamphetamines back in the nineties where there were analog knockoffs and it made it very difficult for prosecution. Most of our state's laws are tied to the Controlled Substances Act, so a preclusion of it would eliminate the probability of prosecuting somebody for it. And I'll agree with the doctor when he said, if we include these now, it will disincentivize the knockoffs of the analogs because they'll be by default included, which will solve the previous problem of prosecutions at the state level.

Mr. Grassley (54:51):

Sheriff Barnes. At the Center for Disease Control reported that a hundred thousand Americans died each year from drug overdoses. As I've said, 75,000 of those related to fentanyl, and that's been at least over the last four years. We've only recently seen a decline. Do you think that we've got a handle on the emergency drug threats? And if not, what do we need to do better?

Donald Barnes (55:23):

Chair Grassley, I don't believe we have a handle on it. I think we're finally responding to it. The CDC first reported back in 2014, just over 10 years ago, 4% of the nation's drug-related deaths were attributed to fentanyl. Five years later, that increased tenfold to 40% and almost doubled all over again in the five years since. We've seen this coming, we've been non-responsive to it. So I think that we have seen an emergent trend. We have been playing defense as I shared earlier with my response to Senator Cornyn.

(55:52)
I believe it's not doing any one thing, it's doing a dozen things simultaneously that's going to put us in a better position. And first and foremost, as much as people don't want to recognize it, we have to deal some. We have to deal with the demand side of this issue north of the border with our addiction crisis in this country to get people in sobriety, which will then deal with the narcotics' economy on the supply chain side of it by eliminating the need for the narcotics north of the border. I think that's the most important thing that we can do as a country.

Mr. Grassley (56:21):

My last question will have to be to Mr. Puerta. Thank you for sharing your son's story. I said that before, but we can't say it too often. Some folks have said that scheduling fentanyl-related substances as a class creates a system that over-criminalizes drug crimes. What's your response to that?

Jaime Puerta (56:44):

I am Hispanic American. I'm Colombian American, and I believe that a lot, if not the grand majority of the children who are dying today. The New England Journal of Medicine came out with the report in January of 2024, and it came to the conclusion that in 2020 we were losing 22 non-addicted children in the United States of America per week between the ages of 14 and 18 years of age. Mostly driven by illicit fentanyl pills that were deceptively sold to them. Are we to stand back and not do anything because we're going to over-criminalize this? Every time I get up in the morning, I look in the mirror, I see a brown man, but I see an American man as well, and I see that the injustice also this crisis is decimating minorities as well.

(57:38)
This does not discriminate on your age. It doesn't discriminate your race. It doesn't discriminate your religion, your socioeconomic status. It doesn't discriminate. It's taking everyone by storm, and we as a nation have to come together and we have to do something to stop this. In 2020 with COVID-19, we all knew that we had to stand six feet away from each other, that we had to wash our hands and we had to wear a mask over our faces. Why does the American public not know about this crisis that is a national security crisis as well, sir? We have a lot to do, but I'm telling you right now, this is taking everyone by storm and something has to be done.

Ms. Klobuchar (58:21):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Norring, I think everyone was touched by your story and your bravery for coming forward. I've been honored to get to know you and I want to thank you for everything that you've done. As you said, all the hopes and dreams we as parents had for Devon were erased in the blink of an eye and no mom should have to bury their kid. Those were your words, and I know the words of all of your friends there that stand there to support you and have had their own pain. All he did was buy a pill off Snapchat. He thought it was a Percocet.

(58:55)
You were there for that testimony with the tech executives and there's a bunch of us here that have had some battle wounds going after them when we just want to put some sensible rules in place or get rid of this legal protections that they have that other companies do not have, as you so well pointed out. But no wounds compared to what you have. You heard their testimony back then in January 2024. Do you think the social media companies are doing enough to stop the sale of drugs to kids online?

Bridgette Norring (59:25):

I do not think that they are doing enough. In fact, it's still continuing. I was introduced to two new families just last week from Minnesota, both with ties to fentanyl with their children passing. So no, they're not doing enough. They could be doing more. I was just informed that Evan Spiegel is in support of the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act. And I must ask then if you are in such support of it, all these companies are in support of the Kids Online Safety Act, why aren't they implementing those features and doing the job now? Why do we have to come before Congress and have you make them do that?

Ms. Klobuchar (01:00:02):

Good point. Thank you. Mr. Puerta, do you think we should get rid of or reform section 230 in some way just to make this very clear?

Jaime Puerta (01:00:13):

Absolutely, Senator Klobuchar. 1996, as we all know, this legislative body came up with the section 230C of the Communication Decency Act. And what it was meant to do was to protect free speech. But what's happening right now cannot be free speech when you have a drug dealer selling illicit fentanyl to unsuspecting children. That's not free speech or a grown man sending unwarranted pictures to young ladies. Sexual exploitation. This is not free speech. This is criminal behavior. And like Ms. Norring said, if it's a criminal act in the real world, then it should be as well in the social media world.

Ms. Klobuchar (01:00:50):

So you're looking for that reform, which also I appreciate you bringing up. Senator Cruz and I have this Take It Down Act. There's a number of other bills involving pornography as well. Sheriff Barnes, do you agree that we should… Thank you for your testimony and being here. As we look into this next year, funding for law enforcement. Do you think that that is important to take on this fentanyl crisis as well as the HIDTA program that helps your deputies get fentanyl off the streets?

Donald Barnes (01:01:20):

Senator, yes. Thank you for that question. The HIDTA funding has been stagnant, stale for the last 10 years, hasn't grown. If you look at the time value of money, it's about one third reduction over the last 10 years and our costs have gone up. So it's about 50 cents on the dollar. It's not a fully funded program. My HIDTA program is funded at about one sixth of the costs that we put into it, and mostly it's subsidized through my investment of stabilizing that as other municipal agencies have withdrawn personnel.

(01:01:47)
So yes, I think it's the nation's worst time in history. We have to reinvest those monies. We have to look at the use of those monies, and I think we have to look at what I call a super HIDTA, the original intent of the gateway HIDTA is to invest on the greatest offense, which is our border hiatus, and stop as much of the drugs as we can at the border before they make it into the continental of the United States.

Ms. Klobuchar (01:02:07):

Thank you. Dr. Westlake, why does class-wide scheduling reduce the incentives for drug cartels to create new fentanyl variants?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:02:17):

So the incentives were there before because when they initially created these without under the normal Controlled Substances Act, they were legal so that you could modify it instead of putting an ethyl group in, you could put a methyl group in. It's a legal substance. I was on the controlled substance board in Wisconsin 2015. We had nine different fentanyl-related substances that were killing people. We could schedule them immediately and then they were illegal.

(01:02:39)
And when you schedule them and make them illegal, there's no incentive for them to be created anymore. And there's a cookbook of changes that you can easily look up the research to find what different chemicals to use. So it literally just stops the incentive. It doesn't stop illicit fentanyl incentive, but it closes the spigot of fentanyl-related substances.

Ms. Klobuchar (01:02:56):

Thank you. One last point Mrs. Norring and we'll talk more in this committee. I am so pleased that Senator Grassley and Durbin will lead this together on some of the social media issues. They go way beyond the ones we've talked about now, but you've also embarked on education campaign along with a lot of our sheriffs in Minnesota that I think has been pretty effective. Going back in the schools with one pill can kill. 10 seconds on that, and I'm out of time.

Bridgette Norring (01:03:24):

We have to do it because nobody else is doing it. It falls back on us. If we sit by and say nothing, children continue to die. So we feel it's our obligation to get out there, educate our community and the children because as [inaudible 01:03:43] mentioned, the conversation really begins at home. It really has to begin at home.

Ms. Klobuchar (01:03:47):

Thank you.

Bridgette Norring (01:03:49):

Thank you.

Mr. Lee (01:03:49):

Senator Lee. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all of you for being here and sharing your insights today. The fentanyl crisis has infiltrated our homes, our schools, our communities, our workplaces. Taking lives and destroying lives at an unprecedented rate. In Utah, fentanyl-related deaths are rising and they've become a devastating reality for far too many families. Seems everyone knows someone. And in Utah, in many cases, almost everyone is related to someone who has been impacted adversely, if not lost their life due to this crisis. From 2014 through 2023, deaths involving fentanyl surged by a staggering 116%. And in 2023 alone, over 600 times in Utah, someone returned home to find their son, their daughter, their sibling their parent had lost their life due to a tragic opioid overdose. This marks a dramatic increase from just 23 deaths in 2014. Now, in 2023, Utah set a record for the most fentanyl pills seized in the year. Then by the very next year, just six months into the year, by July of 2024, the DEA's Rocky Mountain Field Division had already confiscated well in excess of that. Close to 800,000 pills, suppressing the entire year record-breaking year of 2023, which recorded 664,200 pills in just six months. The sharp increase in fentanyl related deaths has significantly outpaced the decline that we've seen in deaths from prescription opioids. So we took all these steps as the crisis emerged as significant, roughly a decade or so, and then all of a sudden we've seen the number of deaths from the non-prescription related drugs exceeding those.

(01:06:08)
The number of fentanyl related deaths more than doubled between 2019 and 2020 alone. And that trend has only gotten worse since then. The victims of this deadly scourge include our loved ones, our neighbors, our friends. Mr. Puerta, and Ms. Norring, thank you for being with us today in particular and for sharing your testimonies and deeply sorry for your loss. No parent should ever have to face that heartbreak and heartbroken for you that you have. President Trump has prioritized securing our borders and prosecuting violent gang members, traffic fentanyl into our country and throughout our communities. And in Congress, I hope we can stand with him in his effort to make America safe again.

(01:06:58)
Sheriff Barnes, I'd like to start with you. From October 2023 to October 2024, officials seized roughly 22,000 pounds of fentanyl at US ports of entry, equaling nearly 1.1 million doses. Now, according to the DEA, ingesting just two milligrams of fentanyl can be fatal. Federal officials estimate that at most 10% of fentanyl crossing from Mexico is actually caught. Do you believe the Biden administration's open border policies contributed to that rapid increase of fentanyl entering the United States illegally? And if so, what can be done to that now?

Donald Barnes (01:07:41):

Senator, unequivocally the crisis of the border that allowed the drug traffic and organization cartels opened a gateway and they exposed our weaknesses and used it against us. So yes, the open border policy undoubtedly resulted in harms to this country through the trafficking of not just fentanyl, but human trafficking and other things that put us at risk. Not to mention the 1.7 million gotaways that we have no idea who they are. There's so much greater risk beyond fentanyl that were created as a result of the open border policies.

Mr. Lee (01:08:16):

I appreciate what you've done in Orange County. It's sparked the creation of all kinds of memes that are in fact flattering of your county and the efforts that you have undertaken there. Memes suggesting, for example, that more people cross into your county, they're sometimes shocked to learn at the extent to which you're willing to enforce the law. And yet California law in some meaningful ways has impeded your ability to enforce the law and make Californians safer. What can you tell us about that and how sanctuary jurisdictions are adversely affecting your work?

Donald Barnes (01:08:45):

Well, first as far as laws, in 2014, we had Prop 47 passed. We said Prop 36 passed, which reversed a lot of the Prop 47 impacts. We're already seeing incarceration rates go up, which is unrepentant crime. So we're seeing some positive results there with accountability being restored back into California. Regarding the issues, your second question was specific to immigration-

Mr. Lee (01:09:10):

Sanctuary jurisdictions in California law, whether-

Donald Barnes (01:09:12):

I can speak for myself, I cooperate with our federal partners to the extent allowable by law. I believe those are creating harms by restricting our ability to communicate. I have to release people back into our communities that re-offend to come right back. I do not believe they should be allowed to do that. I would support changing that challenge, that law, and give us the ability to cooperate with our federal partners.

Mr. Grassley (01:09:34):

Senator Blumenthal.

Mr. Lee (01:09:36):

Thank you.

Senator Blumenthal (01:09:38):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank you for having this hearing and the ranking member as well. This cause should unite us across the aisle, and I think today's hearing reflects that kind of bipartisan support for stronger measures to stop social media from spreading and selling and distributing fentanyl and other

Senator Blumenthal (01:10:00):

… toxic chemicals. And I've been pleased to work across the aisle with Senator Blackburn on the Kids Online Safety Bill which would dramatically and significantly reduce the threat of these drugs, and we're going to be reintroducing that bill I hope, again, with the kind of support that was reflected in the 91 to 3 vote in the United States Senate supporting that bill. I've been pleased to work with Senator Cruz and Senator Graham on measures that would reduce that threat of social media, and others on the committee, the ranking member and yourself.

(01:10:35)
I want to raise an issue first that I think is tremendously relevant to this topic because it indicates a diminution, an undercutting of law enforcement, which is the mass purges that are taking place among the ranks of our FBI. There's no denying that FBI agents have been fired, have been suspended and otherwise disciplined for assignments that they took on orders in connection with certain criminal investigations. Those massive purges are directly contrary to the assurances we were given by Kash Patel. He said to us when I asked him directly, pointedly, all FBI employees will be protected against political retribution. This retribution undermines enforcement by the FBI of drug cases and terrorism and other criminal cases.

(01:11:45)
I ask Mr. Chairman that we call back Kash Patel to explain how he could deny that there would be political retribution, when the next day in fact these massive purges began. Likewise, Mr. Chairman, I'm asking questions about the reassignment apparently of AUSAs, assistant US attorneys from drug cases to immigration cases. We need them on the front lines prosecuting drug cases. We need FBI agents on the front lines. We can all agree I think on a bipartisan basis that assistant US attorneys and other federal prosecutors ought to be at the tip of the spear, and that this reassignment poses a threat to law enforcement of exactly the prohibitions and the dangers that bring us here today. And I hope that we can unite around that cause, bring back Kash Patel for a second hearing, and jointly do our oversight which we are mandated to do on this topic.

(01:12:51)
I want to thank our witnesses. Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, you have suffered losses that are unspeakable, and all of you who are so deeply engaged, hands-on, the story about the Body Bag, Mr. Westlake, I think I will always remember. I would like to ask Ms. Norring and Mr. Puerta about the Kids Online Safety Bill and whether you believe that our leadership here in the Senate and most important in the House, which was responsible for stopping it after the 91 to 3 vote here in the Senate, should support this legislation, the Kids Online Safety Act, which had such strong bipartisan backing here in the United States Senate. Will it make a difference? Do you think the house leadership ought to support it?

Bridgette Norring (01:13:47):

Thank you for that question, Senator Blumenthal. I firmly believe that the House should support it. 91 to 3 coming out of this Senate body is something that is so unheard of, and it happened on my birthday last year. It was the first time in years I'd ever felt some sort of peace. I finally felt hopeful that something was going to be done to protect our children, and to see it fail in the house, not even get out of the committee, it's absurd because it's putting more children at harm, not just from Fentanyl but all the other harms that are out there. So I thank you for your continued support on this bill.

Senator Blumenthal (01:14:24):

Thank you. Mr. Puerta?

Jaime Puerta (01:14:27):

A lot of these social media companies are driving these harmful algorithms to our children and many nefarious actors are taking advantage of that, and the act is exactly that. The Kids Online Safety Act is to try to protect them from all of this nefarious activity and these harmful algorithms that are reaching them on a daily basis. So yes, I absolutely back that bill and back you in anything that we can do to try to get it over to the finish line. Thank you.

Mr. Grassley (01:14:56):

Before I call on Senator Cruz, when Cruz is done, I'm going to leave for another meeting. Senator Britt is going to take over, so if you come over here and sit now, I'd appreciate it. Senator Cruz?

Senator Cruz (01:15:11):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, soon to be Madam Chairman. Thank you for hosting this very important debate and this very important hearing. The American people in November issued a clear and unequivocal mandate. The open borders we've had for the last four years must be closed. We can no longer allow criminals and cartels and gang members and deadly drugs to stream across our border, and President Trump has been working every day since he was sworn in to keep his promise to secure the border. He declared a national emergency on the southern border, he reinstated the Remain in Mexico policy, and just yesterday, President Trump negotiated that Mexico will station 10,000 troops at the southern border to help stop the flow of fentanyl into the United States. President Trump is doing his part to meet the mandate from the voters. We also in Congress must do our part to meet that mandate. That's why I hope that this committee supports the Halt Fentanyl Act, an act to permanently classify fentanyl-related substances as schedule one under the Controlled Substances Act. Fentanyl and its analogs are extraordinarily powerful and extraordinarily destructive. Congress and the American people don't talk enough about fentanyl's dangerousness, so I'm going to talk a little bit about that. Dr. Westlake, you are an emergency room physician. How much fentanyl does it take to kill an adult human being?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:16:43):

Well, this is enough to kill 2000 people, so it's four to five grains of sand is a lethal dose for an opioid-naive patient.

Senator Cruz (01:16:52):

Two milligrams is what it takes. If you see on this photograph, a penny, we all know the size of a penny, and those couple of flakes there are enough to kill an adult human being. Dr. Westlake, last year, approximately how many people died due to fentanyl overdoses?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:17:13):

I believe it was around 70,000.

Senator Cruz (01:17:17):

This means on average, 6,250 people died every single month due to fentanyl, and it's a number that tragically has skyrocketed during the Biden-Harris years. Sheriff Barnes, as a law enforcement professional on the front lines of the battle with fentanyl, can I ask you, how many pounds of fentanyl were seized by Customs and Border Patrol at the border last year?

Sherriff Barnes (01:17:45):

Senator, unfortunately I can't answer that. I can answer in my organization, but I know it was a lot and growing.

Senator Cruz (01:17:52):

It was 2,250 pounds of fentanyl, an astronomical figure. And actually, I want to put this into context. This packet of Sweet'N Low, this packet, if it were full of fentanyl, could kill 500 people. Now, take a look at this container. It's a container we're all familiar with. If this were full of fentanyl, it could kill 368,500 people. That's more than the entire population of Corpus Christi, Texas, or Lubbock, Texas.

(01:18:39)
Now, let's look at another packet, something again all of us likely have in our kitchen. This single bag of sugar, if it were filled with fentanyl, could kill 905,000 people, almost a million people. This single bag could take out the entire population of Austin, Texas, the capital of my home state. Now imagine 562 of these bags. That's how much fentanyl came into the United States of America in a single month. And how many lethal doses of Fentanyl is in 562 bags, what came in a single month last year? 510 million lethal doses. In one month, more fentanyl came into America than it would be needed to kill every single man, woman, and child in the United States. This is a crisis we have to solve. Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, thank you both for being here. Thank you for your courage. I will say as the father of two teenage girls, you've lived a nightmare that every parent is terrified of. What I would ask is what would you say to parents at home? What do parents at home need to know about this? What do teenagers and kids at home need to know about the dangers of fentanyl?

Jaime Puerta (01:20:25):

If you don't think this can happen to you, I'm very sorry but you're very sorely mistaken. This is taking everybody by storm. That's what I would tell every single parent. Due to the stigma of addiction and overdose though, most people think that this could not affect their family because either they don't have somebody who's addicted to drugs in their family or somebody who's using drugs on a recreational basis, but children make mistakes. I do not condone my son, Daniel, wanting to self-medicate during the height of the pandemic for whatever was happening in his head. I do not condone it. He made a mistake and the price that he paid was his life. Children are supposed to make mistakes but not die from them, period, and that's what's happening every single day, 22 times a week in the United States of America. We have to stop this.

Senator Cruz (01:21:20):

Amen. Ms. Norring.

Bridgette Norring (01:21:21):

I echo the same thing. That whole saying, "Not my kid," take that out of your vocabulary because it could very well be your kid. We had every conversation with our children about addiction, because unfortunately on both sides of our family, we have members that suffer from STD, but nobody at the time was talking about this crisis, so I feel robbed of a conversation I could have had with my son that could have saved his life. So take that out of your vocabulary. This very well could happen and it can very well happen. These dealers are on Snapchat, all platforms, every single one of them, and we've reported them. I know Mr. Puerta has reported them, and 90… I shouldn't put a number out there, but majority of the time, it comes back as, "This does not violate our standards." So monitor your children's social media accounts, have the conversation. It could save your child's life.

Senator Cruz (01:22:17):

Thank you for your courage.

Bridgette Norring (01:22:19):

Thank you, Senator.

Senator Cruz (01:22:19):

Thank you.

Mrs Britt (01:22:19):

Mr. Schiff.

Mr. Schiff (01:22:24):

Thank you all for being here, and I just want to express my heartbreak at hearing about the loss of your sons. I can't imagine what you've gone through, and like every parent of college age kids or high school age kids, I've had those conversations with my kids and I am grateful that you're here and willing to share your experience, which is so important for us to hear. I have a couple of questions. Doctor, I want to ask you, because one of the concerns I heard about the bill when it was in the House was a concern that it could inhibit research. You made a comment but you made it too quickly for me to catch about NIH's view or others. Is there a need to have language to make sure that the research can go on or do you feel that is a non-issue for some reason?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:23:24):

No. So this is a compromise bill. The initial language that came out was just pure scheduling language, and then when there was concerns that it could impact research negatively, the research component was added and that was supported through the first Trump ONDCP and then through the Biden ONDCP. The research accommodations that were reached significantly open up all schedule one research, not just int feontanyl related substances but into all schedule ones, and that's why they support it, NIH, HHS, FDA-

Mr. Schiff (01:23:54):

So that's been incorporated into a new version of the bill?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:23:57):

Correct, in the Halt Fentanyl… Yeah, it isn't the Halt Fentanyl Bill.

Mr. Schiff (01:24:00):

Okay, thank you. That's very helpful. And if I could ask you, Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring, What do you think is working in terms of trying to educate families, young people, and what more do we need to do? And I fully agree with the need to make sure that the companies that are using their platforms or allowing their platforms to be used need to be held liable and accountable, but what do you think is working in terms of educating both families but also schools and others about how they should incorporate this into their teaching and have the supplies on hand necessary to deal with emergencies?

Jaime Puerta (01:24:50):

At Stop the Void, our organization, along with project Facing Fentanyl, we have a documentary called Dead on Arrival. You could find it at StopTheVoid.org. It's a 22- minute documentary that we use in junior high schools and in high schools across this nation, in California, all of Orange County high schools have done it with Amy Neville presenting the documentary. I think the educational awareness is key in abating these senseless drug deaths, because these kids just don't know. They don't know what they're ingesting. They're dying because they've been deceptively sold a counterfeit pill that they think is a pharmaceutical-grade oxycodone for example, and it turns out that it's a fake pill and they end up dying, first time use.

(01:25:34)
Education awareness is working, but we are just a small organization. We need to do this nationwide. Mr. Steve Hilton says it all the time. With COVID-19, we all knew that we had to wash our hands and have a mask over our faces. Why on the national or on the federal level, why have we not had a PSA campaign of sorts of warning all parents and children of the impending danger of illicit, or should I say recreational drug use? I think that's very key, because again, due to the stigma of addiction and overdose, most kids and most parents don't understand the problem of what it is.

(01:26:09)
I also feel that interdiction is helping a lot as well as naloxone. This is a three-pronged approach, education and awareness, interdiction and naloxone. Widely available naloxone on college campuses and high schools I think is really helping out the situation a little bit, but we need to do a lot more.

Mr. Schiff (01:26:30):

Thank you. Ms. Norring?

Bridgette Norring (01:26:30):

I agree, the education and awareness piece is huge, but we face roadblocks all the time with schools that don't want us to come into their schools because they feel that we may basically in a sense give kids the idea that it's okay to go do these drugs, and it's so ridiculous. We've shown Dead on Arrival. I'm a former member of VOID, so we do that. Oftentimes, we also show the Come Back Home film that the Alexander Neville Foundation produced, which is told from the youth preventative side of things. And I think when you hear from the youth directly on this crisis, that is so impactful. We also pride ourselves on going out into the community, doing community events, bringing the community together, doing naloxone trainings, getting that information out there, really reducing the stigma of this crisis because I say poisoning while so many say overdose. You'll never hear me say that my son overdosed because my son was poisoned.

(01:27:32)
I know that if my son knew that that pill was going to take his life, he would've never have taken it. Like Senator Klobuchar said, all of my hopes and dreams for him and his future are gone, but not only that, his dreams erased in the blink of an eye. And I mirror your sentiment. Our government really needs to step up and start taking the handle on this because we're just parents out there. We're spending a lot of money out of our pockets. Most of us don't qualify for public grants or anything like that. Why don't we have the campaign? Kids are dying. You would think that that would be a priority, and yet it's us out there doing the work, and we will do it because that means potentially a child's life is saved.

Mr. Schiff (01:28:23):

Thank you both again for your testimony, and to all the parents who are here representing their children, I want to thank you for your advocacy. Really important for us to see you and to hear you, and thank you for your testimony. I yield back,

Mrs Britt (01:28:41):

Couldn't agree more. I'd like to enter into the record a letter of support from nine organizations that represent the medical community, led by the American Society of Neurosurgeons. Their letter commends our bipartisan leadership in addressing the fentanyl epidemic and notes that the temporary schedule classification is not sustainable. They note that, quote, "continually revisiting its classification creates confusion about the dangers of these substances and hampered efforts to address the crisis comprehensively," end quote. I ask unanimous consent that the entirety of their letter be entered into the record. Thank you. Thank you. Senator Hawley?

Senator Hawley (01:29:22):

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks to all of the witnesses for being here. Ms. Norring, Mr. Puerta, I want to particularly thank you and thank other parents who I think are in the room today. You've highlighted that the true crisis that we're facing. My home state of Missouri in 2022 alone, child fatalities from fentanyl doubled just in 2022. Deaths for children under the age of five increased by more than 500% in my state, and fentanyl is our leading cause of death now in the State of Missouri. So the fates that your families have endured are being replicated all over my state as well, and that's really a wake-up call I think for this body to do something.

(01:30:02)
And we absolutely do need to seal the border against those who would traffic illicit drugs into this country and we need to prosecute those who are doing it, but I want to zero in on something that you both talked about, and you in particular, Ms. Norring, where your own children and your child was exposed to these illegal drugs, namely Snapchat and the social media platforms. You said a second ago that you have repeatedly reported drug dealers and other illicit posts on social media platforms using the platforms' own reporting rules, and I think what you said is that most of the time, most of the time, the vast majority of the time, the answer you get back is, well, this is a valid account or they otherwise can't do anything. Did I hear that correctly, Ms. Norring?

Bridgette Norring (01:30:43):

That is correct, Senator Hawley.

Senator Hawley (01:30:45):

So here, you're trying to follow rules that these companies have set up. They say, "Oh, well, we'll deal with the problem if you just report it." You and other parents, and I see parents behind you who are nodding, you're out there reporting, reporting, reporting. They're not doing anything. And I noticed that you also, I've read your written testimony, you had a meeting with Snapchat executives. I think you were there for that too, Mr. Puerta, in the spring of 2021.

Jaime Puerta (01:31:05):

That's correct.

Senator Hawley (01:31:06):

And they told you… Just walk us through that, Ms. Norring, if you would. You reported to them what was going on on their own platform and they told you what exactly?

Bridgette Norring (01:31:17):

The first three things out of their mouth was, "We had no idea this was happening on our platform. You can't sue us because we're protected under Section 230, and as parents, you should have been monitoring your children better." My son was 19 when he died. Number one, how do you monitor an adult? Number two, how do you monitor a child on an app in which the whole allure to these kids is the fact that the messages disappear? And that was something that I brought up to their attention and they really had no response. They don't care.

Senator Hawley (01:31:54):

They don't care, and I think it's interesting they pointed out to you that you can't sue them. What do you think one of the reasons is that they don't really change? I mean, here you are, you're meeting with them. You're reporting these incidents, you're reporting this illicit activity on their platform. They're not doing anything about it. Do you speculate? Do you have a guess as to why they don't really ever change their behavior?

Bridgette Norring (01:32:16):

There's no incentive to, and even with the in-app reporting feature, that was something that they pointed out to us like we should have known that this existed. We had no idea that existed, but I can tell you, in the weeks and the months and the years after my son passed, multiple teens in our town reported the dealers that allegedly harmed my son, and all that would happen is they would take down the account. These dealers would go and get a new burner phone, set up a new account. Snapchat told us they had IP blockers and Wi-Fi blockers to recognize the devices. These dealers are buying burner phones. They're going to, I don't know, your coffee shop, your school. You're going to the library and setting up a new account. Our dealers in my community laughed at Snapchat. They're like, "Haha, they tried to bamboozle us. We're back, baby." Seriously.

Senator Hawley (01:33:08):

I want to just highlight what you just said because I think I want everybody who's watching this and I want every member of this committee and every member of the Senate to understand what you just said, which is that the social media platforms don't change because they don't have any incentive, which is a very polite way of saying there's no hammer on these people. They do whatever they want to do because they know nobody can effectively hold them accountable, and they really let the mask slip when you two walked into their offices and told them that they had participated in the killing of your children, because that's what happened. They made money off of it effectively because they're making billions of dollars on their social media platforms. They're killing our kids, they're exposing them to all kinds of ungodly material, and they won't do anything about it because we can't hold them accountable, and I just want to say to members of this body, that has got to change.

(01:33:53)
It is time to give parents the right to sue these platforms. No company in America has the liability shield that these companies have. They can do whatever they want to our kids and we can't do anything about it, and I say that as the father of three young children, I'm terrified of what my kids might find on social media for the reasons that you've given today. But as a parent, I can't do a thing about it if these companies decide to exploit my children, and it is time for that to change, and we know how to change it. The way to change it is give the parents in this country the right to get into court. Open the courthouse doors and allow them to sue these companies. It's time.

(01:34:33)
And until this body takes that action, I just have to say, almost nothing else we do is really serious. You can try to fine them, they don't care. You can change the rules on reporting, they'll evade it. You can slap them on the wrist, they won't do anything. Until plaintiffs can get into court, nothing will change, and so I will introduce legislation, this Congress to allow parents, to allow you to go to court and sue these companies, and I call on every member of this committee and every member of this body to support this effort to get justice for your children. Thank you for being here today. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mrs Britt (01:35:06):

Senator Padilla.

Senator Padilla (01:35:08):

Thank you, Madam Chair. Colleagues, I so much appreciate the opportunity to focus on this crisis today, with one caveat. I think it's a little disappointing to continue to stick to an inaccurate narrative that the Fentanyl crisis in America is primarily an immigration problem. The Fentanyl crisis in America is a health crisis, it is a public safety crisis, and as we've heard from testimonials today, it's a life and death crisis. But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Fentanyl that is smuggled into United States is brought in through legal ports of entry. Mind you, not between ports of entry, but through legal ports of entry by primarily United States citizens. Don't just take my word for it. Look at CBP data.

(01:36:14)
Now, I know it's been called into question earlier, the accuracy of it. Even if it was off by half, we're looking at half and half. Now, don't mistake my words here as condoning that anybody attempting to come into the United States unlawfully that happens to be carrying Fentanyl should be off the hook. I disagree. We should clamp down on them, but if data is important for driving policy decisions and informing strategic actions, let's look at the facts. 80% plus of the fentanyl intercepted at the border is being brought in through ports of entry by United States citizens.

(01:36:56)
So again, folks coming through unlawfully, I'm not saying ignore them, but let's not ignore where the concentration of the problem is. I will ask the witnesses today what recommendations or strategies that we should be implementing through the Department of Justice, through the Department of Homeland Security, and then we're going to have opportunities for other DOJ officials in the coming days and weeks to do that, and we should. But I will suggest, colleagues, that the recent changes by the administration at the Department of Justice that has resulted in the shifting of critical resources, including from the FBI, including from the DEA, including the ATF towards immigration enforcement, which be clear, be honest with ourselves and the public, is not exclusive to violent criminals, it's everybody. Minor offenses, people who haven't committed any offense other than in the eyes of folks what became illegal and they're criminals. Horrible, horrible way to think about this. It's doing a disservice to our efforts to crack down on the fentanyl crisis and other illicit drugs that are hurting and killing so many of our kids.

(01:38:20)
My first question. Dr. Farfan-Mendez, can you explain how diverting law enforcement resources towards immigration enforcement could actually undermine fentanyl investigations and make it harder to disrupt trafficking networks?

Cecilia Farfán (01:38:37):

So the US has a mechanism called the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task force, and these task force is made up of several agencies: Department of Justice, Homeland Security, Department of Labor, the US Postal Service and a number of others. The State Department is also included there. Putting together criminal investigations that take down trafficking networks is a long process. It takes time, it takes interagency coordination. In the best of cases, it also takes international cooperation including with Mexico. And so when you distract those resources and allocate them in another task, in this case, for instance, immigration enforcement, effectively what you are doing is undermining long-term efforts to try to precisely bring criminal groups to justice. And so in the world that we have of limited resources, when you take away from one area, you'll definitely impact another, and so there is definitely a concern of weakening this organized crime enforcement task force.

Senator Padilla (01:39:33):

And it's okay if you don't have the answer to the following question, but in case you do, I understand that there's only one legal gun store in Mexico.

Cecilia Farfán (01:39:42):

Correct. Mexico only has one legal gun store.

Senator Padilla (01:39:45):

Okay. So for all of my colleagues who for years and years have talked about clamping down on the cartels, the criminal organizations that are arming them with weapons trafficked from the United States, folks, according to ATF data. Again, I'm not sorry for relying on our own data, up to 500,000 US-sourced firearms are trafficked into Mexico every year with 70% of crime guns recovered in Mexico tracing back to the United States. Dr. Farfan-Mendez, Mexican President Scheinbaum has stated that President Trump agreed to work on reducing the flow of guns into Mexico as part of yesterday's deal to delay the tariffs for a month. What concrete steps should the US take to uphold that commitment?

Mrs Britt (01:40:32):

And yes, ma'am, if you can keep your answers short. We're out of time. Thank you so much.

Cecilia Farfán (01:40:36):

Absolutely. I hear this committee when you say that you want to save lives of American children and Americans in general, and what I say to you is the fentanyl market is not an isolated illicit market. It's very much linked to the firearms trafficking market, and so in that conversation that President Scheinbaum and President Trump had, I think for the US to seriously address fentanyl, the conversation also has to be about how you prevent criminal groups to have the firepower that make addressing supply on the Mexican side incredibly difficult. As I say, these are shared tragedies, both for Mexico and the US, and so if the crime is transnational, shouldn't the solution also be transnational?

Senator Padilla (01:41:18):

Very well said. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mrs Britt (01:41:20):

Thank you. I do want to address before we move to our next senator the argument that US citizens bring the most fentanyl into the United States, not illegal immigrants. It has been pointed to today some incomplete seizure and arrest statistics that support that argument, so with the wide open border policies of the Biden-Harris administration over the last four years, we do not know the full scale of drugs smuggled into this nation. The prosecution statistics only account for individuals that were actually caught, prosecuted and sentenced, not criminals who managed to actually evade detection. The Washington Post says that federal officials estimate that we're only catching about five to 10% of fentanyl that is coming in from Mexico, so do that math. If that's true, then we're not catching 90 to 95% of the fentanyl that is actually coming across our southern border. We have to be honest about that. That should alarm every single one of us, and it also shows why border security is an important component to stopping the flow of fentanyl. Senator Kennedy.

Senator Kennedy (01:42:36):

Dr. Farfan, the president of Mexico until 2024 was President Lopez Obrador. Is that right? And he ran for president with respect to the cartels on the slogan, " Hugs not bullets." Is that right?

Cecilia Farfán (01:43:06):

Well, no. He did not run his campaign on that slogan.

Senator Kennedy (01:43:10):

Yes, he did. Now, his hand-picked successor is President Steinbaum. Is that correct?

Cecilia Farfán (01:43:19):

Sheinbaum.

Senator Kennedy (01:43:21):

Is that correct?

Cecilia Farfán (01:43:23):

Claudia Sheinbaum.

Senator Kennedy (01:43:24):

Right. Am I right?

Cecilia Farfán (01:43:26):

Yes.

Senator Kennedy (01:43:27):

Okay. I love the people of Mexico and the people of Mexico are our good friends, but isn't a big part of the problem that President Lopez Obrador and now President Sheinbaum, thank you for correcting me by the way, live in the right front pocket of the Mexican drug cartels?

Cecilia Farfán (01:43:57):

I disagree with that statement.

Senator Kennedy (01:43:59):

I thought you might. You want more task forces? Dr. Westlake, this represents 400 grams of Fentanyl. It could kill every person in Providence, Rhode Island. If you're a dealer and you get caught with this, you get 10 years minimum. This represents 40 grams of fentanyl. It would kill every single man, woman, and child in Culpepper, Virginia. If you get caught with this amount as a dealer, you get a five-year minimum sentence.

Senator Kennedy (01:45:03):

This is where it gets special. This represents 10 grams of PCP. If you get caught with it as a dealer, you get five years, minimum. Is fentanyl more dangerous than PCP?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:45:25):

Yeah, absolutely, Senator. The fentanyl is classified, can be classified as a lethal weapon. I did a chart on it and actually-

Senator Kennedy (01:45:33):

This is five grams of meth. That's what this represents. If you're a dealer and get caught with it, your minimum sentence is five years. Is fentanyl, you get caught with this much fentanyl, five years or 10 years. Get caught with this much fentanyl, five years. Get caught with this much meth, you can hardly see it, you get five years. Does that make any sense to you?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (01:46:08):

No, sir.

Senator Kennedy (01:46:10):

It's like cell-deep stupid, isn't it? You don't need a task force to see the logic of that. I've got a bill, it's called the Fairness in Fentanyl Sentencing, I've reintroduced. This bill will lower the five-year mandatory minimum for 40 grams of fentanyl to two grams of fentanyl. It'll lower the 10-year mandatory minimum from 400 grams of fentanyl to 20 grams of fentanyl. This bill won't pop, won't punish addicts. It'll help, it's not going to help until President Lopez Obrador and President Scheinbaum get out of the pockets of the drug cartels, but it's a start. This bill will punish dealers. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mrs Britt (01:47:17):

Senator Whitehouse.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (01:47:19):

Thank you Madam Chair. Welcome to all the witnesses. We have real problems in this country with opioid addiction. I was the lead Democrat author of the Comprehensive Addiction Recovery Act, which both changed the nature of the response to this with a lot more emphasis on recovery and prevention, and also opened up significant funding that has flowed through to states to help the groups that are helping people through their addiction and through their recovery.

(01:48:02)
At this point, as best I can tell, the Trump funding freeze is blocking dollars that would otherwise be flowing to treatment and recovery groups around the country. In some cases, it's not so much that they're being told no, it's that they can't get a straight answer. And the confusion could well be just a deliberate fog to obscure the freeze. The lawsuits that are proceeding will help clarify that, but in the meantime, I think it's notable when we're dealing here with this issue, to understand that the Trump Administration has unilaterally frozen funds that flow through to this problem. Our community health centers in Rhode Island are seeing funds similarly either blocked or fogged so that they can't get an answer that the funds are cleared, and it's through community health centers that a lot of people get their treatment as they deal with addiction and recovery issues. So, I hope that we can get this freeze issue resolved, now that two courts have found that it is illegal, in the same way that the Trump Administration doesn't seem to respect the power of the purse in Congress, it is not clear that they respect the power of the courts to decide what the law is. So, we will have to see, but we are clearly outside of constitutional bounds at this point, and people who count on addiction and recovery services are in the target hairs of this.

(01:50:06)
We have agreed, I think as a committee, and we've done some pretty good work together as a committee, Republicans and Democrats alike, to try to put pressure on drug sales that come via the internet and through social media. So, it's disturbing to me that President Trump pardoned an individual who ran a drug-selling dark website. He also had some murder-for-hire accusations, just to add a little bit of color to what a decent person he was.

(01:50:47)
I think the place where we can make the most progress as ranking member Durbin mentioned earlier, is with Section 230. I applaud the litigation that is going forward. I applaud the lawyers who've been able to negotiate the various hurdles that Congress has erected to the American system of justice, having its role in dealing with these deaths and with these tragedies. I think there's bipartisan support for repealing Section 230. I am on for that, and I think the sooner we do that, the better we are. It is simply wrong for these enormously powerful social media entities to have rights to do harm to Americans without accountability, that no other entity shares. So, they've blown any excuse to maintain that privileged position with their behavior, in my view. So, let's go for 230. And with respect to enforcement, reassigning FBI, DOJ, and DEA agents off this task, I don't think is a good idea. We'll find out more about how many were reassigned. Cutting FinCEN dollars I think is a big mistake.

(01:52:08)
And I'll close with a question to Dr. Farfan. It's been my experience as a prosecutor for many years, that we put a lot of attention into interdicting distribution networks for drugs. By comparison, we put a very small effort into interdicting the financial return of that money, the hiding of that money in international accounts and international dark money banking and covert other systems. What more should we be doing to get after the financing of these cartels and is the gun traffic back to them part of the payment to them for the drugs that we try to interdict coming in?

Mrs Britt (01:52:53):

And we are out of time, so if you can keep your response brief. Thank you.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (01:52:58):

Well customarily, as long as the question is asked before the clock runs out, the witness gets to answer it.

Cecilia Farfán (01:53:05):

Thank you. So in terms of the illicit flows, certainly there's… Because money laundering takes place across jurisdictions, it requires also cooperation. So, the best cases that we have seen between, for instance, Mexico and the United States of these money laundering operations, had to do with working together between the two governments. Now, I understand this is not easily done, but these are the most effective cases of money laundering.

(01:53:32)
Certainly, firearms trafficking is part of that. There's a clear notion that drugs normally come from the south, firearms and money flow from the United States to Mexico. And again, there's a linkage between these criminal markets. And if we want to save lives by tackling the fentanyl supply, then there should also be paying attention to money and firearms.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (01:53:53):

Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate your courtesy.

Mrs Britt (01:53:57):

With regards to social media. I appreciate the work that's been done on this committee, and certainly, Senator Blumenthal and Senator Blackburn and the work that they have done in a bipartisan way to address this. As a mom of a 14 and a 15-year-old, who knows that Snapchat is used to tell people which color uniform they're supposed to wear that day, or they use it to figure out where friends are going to meet. You think that this can happen to your point, to anyone, anywhere, and I am so grateful for you both using your voice to speak up and speak directly into this issue. So, thank you.

(01:54:31)
I do want to address complaints about the brief pause on grant funding. It's important to know that this was temporary, it was a temporary pause and to the extent permitted by law, law enforcement grants aren't handed out during this time of year. Our constituent needs will continue to be taken care of while President Trump delivers on the job voters elected him to do. Voters ask him to grow our economy, protect our communities, and ensure that taxpayer dollars are used wisely. Examining spending is part of that. President Trump has always backed the blue, just like Chairman Grassley and just like myself.

(01:55:09)
Additionally, one more thing before we move on. I'd like to enter into the record a letter of support from 11 law enforcement organizations for HALT Fentanyl, including the National Narcotic Officers Association, which is in town for its annual conference. I am pleased that we have several of their members here today as guests of Chairman Grassley. These organizations represent constituents from each of our states, and a significant portion of our nation's federal, state, and local law enforcement communities. As their letter says, "For the sake of public safety, we must pass HALT Fentanyl Act."

(01:55:46)
Senator Blackburn.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (01:55:49):

Thank you so much, Madam Chairman. Mr. Puerta, I am so sorry for your loss. I noted that you said your son had an ADHD diagnosis. And I was looking at figures last week from our TennCare, which is our Medicaid program in Tennessee, and there are over 400,000 children in our state of seven million people that have an ADHD diagnosis. I know that we have so many times seen kids that to deal with the pain would try to get something and my heart breaks for you. And I hope we take a deeper dive and that if confirmed, that Robert F. Kennedy will take a deeper dive into how we medicate children and work on these issues. And thank you for the good work that you were doing.

(01:56:51)
Miss Noring, thank you for your support of COSA. I appreciate that, and we share your heartbreak. I stepped out of committee to go speak to a group of children that are here for Wired Human, and are working on this issue. And the work that you and other parents have done has encouraged these children to stand up and be a resource to their peers and to help them through this issue. So, I thank you for that good work that you are doing.

(01:57:27)
Sheriff Barnes, I want to talk with you about HIDTA. I know that in '22 we had 134 criminal organizations that were dismantled by HIDTA. We had over 8,700 kilograms of drugs that were removed nationally. And in Tennessee, our TBI director, Director Rausch, every time he sees me, he says we have to reauthorize HIDA because it is effective. And the Appalachia HIDTA task force operating in Tennessee was responsible for moving $51 million street value of drugs off the market. So, talk for a minute about why it is crucial that HIDTA be reauthorized for law enforcement officers like you.

Donald Barnes (01:58:18):

Thank you, Senator Blackburn, and thank you for the reauthorization of HIDTA. It's very important, and Director Rausch is a good friend.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (01:58:24):

He's a good man.

Donald Barnes (01:58:26):

I will summarize it this way. At this time in our nation's history, the worst time of our narcotics trafficking and deaths, this is not the time to disenfranchise or divest from the HIDTA program. HIDTA programs are national, they rely on local law enforcement, task forces, and contributions. The HIDTA funding doesn't really fully fund the HIDTA programs, that offsets those contributions from locals. And right now with our municipal agencies having hiring problems, they're stepping away from the HIDTA programs. Keeping them staffed is very difficult. So that reauthorization is very critical to keep the glue together to keep the HIDTA programs running.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (01:59:09):

I have talked to, and I want to stay with you, Sheriff, talked to some of our law enforcement agencies and they have talked to about sanctuary city policies and I know that Senator Lee brought this up with you. But it seems that in a sanctuary city to go after these traffickers, that it is more difficult, that sometimes you have to find workarounds. And I would love for you to talk for just a minute about what we can do that would help you all as you try to deal with these sanctuary cities to get these drugs off the street.

Donald Barnes (01:59:57):

Senator, it's even worse for me in California because of Senate Bill 54 passed about six years ago, that prohibits my dialogue with federal partners on immigration issues. I have the ability to turn over high level offenders only to ICE, they don't always pick them up, which requires me to release them back in the communities in which they reoffend, oftentimes in the communities that they preyed upon. I'm a supporter of abolishing that SB 54 movement. We have to be able to cooperate with our federal partners. And I think if we hold these criminals accountable, this isn't about the general public, those who are entrusted to my care in my jail, and the safest environment to transfer them over to ICE's custody will keep our communities safe, especially those immigrant communities from them returning to and preying upon them.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (02:00:45):

And so many people will say when they get back out, when they evade law enforcement in these sanctuary cities, that they really return even more committed to abuse people in those communities where they have been trafficking those drugs, to pick up the pace of selling the drugs. And I look at these sanctuary city policies and I think how difficult it makes your job when you're trying to keep our community safe. And we thank you for the work that you're doing.

(02:01:24)
We thank each of you for being here today. Senator Blumenthal and I are going to continue to push COSA to get, as you said, Miss Noring, that foundational law that will allow, allow us to hold social media to account. Thank you all, thank you, Madam Chair.

Mrs Britt (02:01:44):

Thank you. Senator Schmitt.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:01:46):

Madam Chair, two hearings and you're chairing the committee. This is wow, it's amazing. Thank you for recognizing me.

(02:01:54)
First of all, as a parent of three young children or now they're not so young now, teenage girls and my son Steven, who's 20, thank you for being here and sharing your stories. I can't imagine how difficult it is to do this, but it is incredibly effective, I think when you do show up and you share those stories. It humanizes something and an issue that can very often become about different things other than the actual human impact.

(02:02:26)
And from my perspective, the job I had before this, I was an attorney general in the state of Missouri and actually served with Senator Moody, and we went down to the border and learned a lot about the activity and how the cartels… And it's not just the drugs and there are obviously the drugs, but the value of the human trafficking alone, and this is a few years ago, was $100 million a week. A week. We're not even talking about the value of the drugs that they're moving and the zones of influence that they have into the interior of the United States.

(02:03:10)
This is a serious crisis, and obviously it's killing too many of our young men and women in this country and communities all across the country. And it gets overused now, but every state truly is a border state when it comes to this. And sort of in that vein about the cartels, I do want to ask you Doctor. In your view, is Mexico doing enough from a law enforcement perspective as relates to the cartels?

Cecilia Farfán (02:03:47):

I think both countries need to do more.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:03:49):

No, yeah, Mexico. I'm asking about Mexico. Listen, there's a lot we need to do, but I won't ask specifically. I mean, part of the reason you're here is to speak to that relationship between the US and Mexico. But from your view, are they doing enough?

Cecilia Farfán (02:04:02):

I think there's definitely more that can be done by Mexico.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:04:05):

And what would that be?

Cecilia Farfán (02:04:07):

I think it is working closer with US counterparts. I think it is also having this diagnosis of these connection between these criminal markets, farms trafficking, drug trafficking, to really benefit communities on both sides of the border.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:04:22):

Do you feel like, and there's been testimony, this isn't just in some high-profile cases, including in the El Chapo case, there's been testimony from witnesses who were once members of the cartels that there is pretty widespread corruption at high levels of the Mexican government that are preventing them from actually doing what they should do to crack down on the cartels. Do you share those concerns?

Cecilia Farfán (02:04:50):

I would not necessarily align myself with the testimony of potentially a criminal witness from a case like that. I understand there are concerns about corruption within Mexico and I understand there is questions about needing to address that. Having said that, I think general accusations about corruption of the entire government, those are not necessarily productive for a good US-Mexico engagement.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:05:17):

Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that there are people, and I get the complexities of some testimony. But it's not just a one-off example, and I think the concern I have is that there's just very little being spent quite honestly, on law enforcement writ large in Mexico. And I just don't know that this has been given the attention over the last at least four years that it should, and hopefully that dynamic is changing. I do think the cooperation between the US and Mexico is really important on this, there's no doubt about that.

(02:05:51)
But I want I guess sort of turn my attention, Sheriff, to you because with my limited time you do have sort of one arm tied behind your back, given I guess the laws in the state of California, the sanctuary status, which isn't, I don't pretend to understand it at all, it's a mess. But when I was AG in Missouri, we had some pretty unique partnerships where we would deputize some people in our office to work in the US Attorney's office to go after some violent crime that maybe at a local level they were choosing not to pursue. Is that kind of where, if you sort of got your arm tied behind your back, maybe that's a way forward, is you actually have to have more federal agents working with the US attorneys to go after these folks because at a local level that's harder to do?

Donald Barnes (02:06:42):

So there's two parts to that question. Under California law, I'm prohibited from cooperating with ICE in any matter, including housing of individuals within my jails. I cannot hold ICE detainees in my jails. Regarding federal task force or designating task force officers, or those who are attorneys to prosecute on behalf of the US attorney's office, that is being done in California, but not specific to immigration. Specific to the issues of fentanyl directly.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:07:11):

Okay. All right. Well, thank you. And again, to the witnesses, thank you for being here today. Thank you.

Mrs Britt (02:07:15):

Thank you. Before we move on, I'd like to enter into the record a letter of support from CADCA, the Premier Prevention Association representing over 7,000 coalition members across the country in strong support of the HALT Fentanyl. " CADCA coalitions support millions of high school and middle school students across this nation and have proven effective in reducing youth substance abuse and use." We thank them for their support of HALT Fentanyl. Senator Hirono.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:07:46):

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you for coming and testifying and of course, my sympathies to Mr. Puerta and Ms. Noring. Obviously, this is a complicated question in the sense that we have disagreements on who is bringing in fentanyl into our country, but we all know that it is creating basically a havoc.

(02:08:17)
And I particularly was interested in noting how we can prevent young people from getting access to fentanyl and their analogs. At the same time, we need a justice department that is stable. Right now there is chaos, as this administration tries to eliminate anybody who can stand up to them. And in addition, when they want the names of everyone who had anything to do with the January 6th investigations and prosecutions, we are talking about potentially thousands of FBI agents. So, you can imagine the chaos that is going on in that department.

(02:09:01)
For Mr. Puerta, I know you mentioned the Dead on Arrival as a documentary that is shown. What age do you think that the children should be when they are alerted to the, for example, not buying anything on the internet? And this goes from Miss Noring, too, in terms of prevention. What is an [inaudible 02:09:29]. And then-

Jaime Puerta (02:09:30):

Thank you for the question.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:09:30):

Does a documentary like the one you mentioned, does it really impact the young people? If not, what does, in terms of education?

Jaime Puerta (02:09:40):

Dead on Arrival, again is a 22-minute documentary that we use in junior high schools and high schools across the nation. We just started also with fifth and sixth graders as well. We started that in Lake County, California, where Mr. Filson, who's behind me here, went up there and saw more than 5,000 students.

(02:09:58)
Miss Hirono, I have a stack of letters from high school students, junior high school students, elementary school students who have seen this documentary, that had absolutely no idea of the impending danger. And had no idea that buying illicit fentanyl was as easy as ordering a pizza through Snapchat. That's how easy it is.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:10:19):

And the danger of this drug is that they can die on first use.

Jaime Puerta (02:10:23):

According to the New England Journal of Medicine, 22 children per week died in the year 2022, non- addicted children between the ages of 14 and 18 years of age. Mostly driven by illicit fentanyl pills, 22 a week.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:10:37):

So easy to obtain on the internet, and that's why there are a number of us on this committee who have raised the issue of very dramatically limiting the Section 230 immunity for the social platforms, because what parents particularly have to go through just to hold these entities accountable. It shouldn't be that way. And so there are a number of us who are on that page.

(02:11:05)
Ms. Noring, I believe you mentioned that there are some schools that do not want to provide this kind of education for fear of something. Could you go over a little bit more why that is? And also for both of you, what can we do at the federal level to really support the kind of prevention efforts that you both, I believe, are engaged in?

Bridgette Norring (02:11:32):

Thank you, Senator for that question. I feel that this education needs to be taught as early as elementary school.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:11:39):

Elementary.

Bridgette Norring (02:11:39):

I believe just from my own experience back home and studies done back home, in surveys done back home with our students, 12-year-olds are the start of where they're beginning with the vapes and the THC vapes. So the earlier we can reach them, definitely the better. Back home, the schools, it's just, it's multiple roadblocks. They don't want it in their schools, there's not enough time in the school year, there's a stigma that it could create more kids going out there and being exposed to these. We've seen a decline in the D.A.R.E programs for that reason.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:12:14):

Should a requiring this kind of education to be available, what can we do at the federal level to promote and to support your efforts?

Bridgette Norring (02:12:26):

Well, I know that was a big thing with families like mine pushing to get our schools to carry a naloxone. And as part of our legalizing marijuana bill in the year 2025, schools now have to, they are required now to provide fentanyl poisoning education.

Jaime Puerta (02:12:44):

And Miss-

Bridgette Norring (02:12:44):

With the legalization of that, it's kind of hypocritical to have that education piece tucked into that bill in my opinion, because now we're saying it's okay to do one drug, but these drugs, stay away from these ones.

Jaime Puerta (02:13:00):

Most of these nonprofits are all made up of bereaved families that we've come together, and because they felt like the government wasn't doing enough and we felt that we just couldn't sit idly by and watch these children die on a daily basis.

(02:13:13)
So, I think one of the things that could really be helpful from the federal government is granting, giving us grants to community organizations like ourselves because we don't really fall into a certain category where we can get grants to do this. We're self-funded actually, and it's really difficult to do that, especially when we're traveling across the nation and doing the work that we do. But we don't charge any money for what we do. We charge $0 to go to a school. We take time out of our days, out of our weeks. And like I said, Mr. Filson was up in Lake County, California up there for a full week, educating 5,000 students on the dangers of illicit fentanyl. But community grants for our specific, I guess niche, for a lack of better words, would be really great.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:14:00):

I think that is something that we can do, provided that we have an administration that isn't going to put a blanket hold on all grants to entities such as yours. Thank you very much for your testimony and your suggestion.

Mrs Britt (02:14:14):

Thank you. As been discussed here today, in 2024, CBP seized approximately 22,000 pounds of fentanyl at US ports of entry on our southern border and our northern border, as well as coastal and interior ports. That's nearly 1.1 billion lethal doses. That averages out to approximately three doses for every person residing in the United States. And perhaps of even greater concern, it's been estimated as I mentioned earlier, that only five to 10% of the fentanyl crossing the border is actually being interdicted. The flow of drugs across our borders is ravaging communities around our country, including in my home state of Alabama.

(02:15:05)
In 2023, an annual report of the Alabama Opioid Overdose and Addiction Council discussed the alarming increase in fentanyl related overdose deaths and poisonings in Alabama between 2018 and 2022. In 2022, Alabama's SBI seized a total of 8,300 grams of fentanyl, which is equivalent to 8.3 million lethal doses, enough to kill everyone in the state of Alabama, plus three million more. In FY 2024, that number was up to 12,400 grams of fentanyl. So, let's be clear, these numbers increasing actually represent more devastated families and more deaths.

(02:15:55)
I have sat across from far too many parents in my short time in the United States Senate, that are grieving just as you two are. And I just want to say again, thank you for sharing your story. I'm going to have our team clip your testimony, put it together, so that we can help begin that PSA. You are changing lives. You're here today not only to see change in law, but to make sure that we save lives and that no one else has to go through what you did. So, thank you for sharing your story and I can promise you with every ounce of me, we're going to do everything possible to elevate it, to ask parents to watch your testimony today, to ask parents to listen to what you are saying, so that they do not have to go through the unthinkable that you have. And we are just so grateful for your willingness to be here.

(02:16:46)
What I'd like to know, Sheriff Barnes, you have testified regarding this issue before, but can you tell us from your perspective of a local law enforcement officer, why you think the federal government needs a more effective strategy in place than we've seen over the last four years at our southern border in particular. And what elements of the strategy should look like, and how Congress can work with the president to actually implement these types of things moving forward?

Donald Barnes (02:17:13):

Yes, thank you, Senator. I have testified to this before. And I think if you look just from post 9/11 where we are today, the threat horizon is much broader than it was back 24 years ago. And it's encompassing all these other categorical crimes, cyber, fentanyl, human trafficking, they're all on the same platform.

(02:17:32)
So specific to fentanyl, we have to work laterally and vertically. And that means with our vertical, with our federal partners, our state partners, and our local partners. Laterally, with all the different efforts being put forth on the trafficking entities that are disparately addressing this issue, but we're not synergizing those efforts very well.

(02:17:52)
I believe that we have a problem with communications. If we're going to do a great offense, we have to communicate with our federal partners at the border, find out where their efforts are, how we can pivot around those to get the end around from the cartels. And most importantly, right now, be aware probably the maritime issues we'll undoubtedly face going forward. Because of the closure at the border, they will pivot around on the waterways.

Mrs Britt (02:18:14):

Thank you. Dr. Westlake. First, I want to thank you for the incredible work that you've done as a medical professional and as an advocate working to protect Americans from the dangers of illicit drugs like fentanyl. In my view, we need to be as bold as possible when it comes to taking steps to protecting American children's and families from the scourge of fentanyl. That's one of the reasons I am a co-sponsor of the HALT Fentanyl Act. Given your work on the issue, can you comment on the impact that FRS class scheduling has had on the enforcement landscape over the last several years, and if there are any myths about class scheduling that you would like to dispel?

Dr. Timothy Westlake (02:19:00):

Thanks for the question, Senator Britt. Yeah, so the myths that were there were initially that there would be people that were incarcerated from it, unduly incarcerated. It's already proven through the GA report and since then that people aren't being incarcerated for it, for the same reason that people aren't dying from it, is because it doesn't exist. And that's what it does. This is, I don't envy the job that you have up here on the dais of addressing… One of the things you addressed is the illicit fentanyl scourge. But one thing that's the lowest hanging fruit you can address is just permanently scheduling fentanyl-related substances. There's no impact on criminal justice that's negative, it saves people's lives, it's a proven strategy, it's a win. Bipartisan, 70 votes in a House last session, probably more this session. So, I encourage that to happen.

Mrs Britt (02:19:50):

Thank you, and thank you all for your time today. I am going to recognize Senator Moody. And also, this is the fastest rise to the top ever. You will be chairing

Mrs Britt (02:20:00):

…during this committee as I go to vote.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:20:02):

And it is appropriate, because this has been one of my priorities as attorney general, and I am honored to be here today among all of you. If you are a family member who has lost a loved one, or a law enforcement official who has stood by that family, and worked with someone who has lost a loved one, will you stand up? I just wanted this hearing to reflect the power of Americans coming together under such tragic loss to get something done. Thank you so much. This was one of… Thank you, Katie Britt. This was one of my priorities of attorney general, but not because I was the attorney general. It was because I worked alongside so many people who had lost loved ones, law enforcement. I am a mother of a teenager. I am the wife of a law enforcement officer. This is the number one killer of working, and fighting age Americans period. So, we have a lot to deal with, a lot on our plates as leaders in this nation. This is the number one killer of working, and fighting age Americans right now.

(02:21:15)
It has been, and if I sound upset about the fact that we have not moved faster on this, that is justified. I want to commend Chairman Grassley who called this hearing. The last four years, this committee has not held one hearing on fentanyl, and again, I will repeat. This is the leading killer of working, and fighting age Americans, and whether you are a lab in China, whether you are a cartel in Mexico, whether you are an organization that is sitting by while your company, or your platform is being used to facilitate the trafficking of fentanyl, and fentanyl-related substances, this is happening on purpose. This is intentional. No one can say that it is not, because things can be done like, I don't know, start with a hearing to talk about fentanyl. Bring family members that have lost the loved ones, law enforcement that is working on the front lines. Thank you for taking the time to be here. I'm glad this is one of my first hearings.

(02:22:20)
So, I want to thank Chairman Grassley for doing this because the last four years we should have had a hearing on this in this committee, and we have not. I'm the newest member here. I sit at a kid's table, if you can see, I'm not even attached to the real bench, but we're going to talk about it moving forward. I can assure you that. I just spoke with Joni Er… She said when she got here, she pledged to be a squealer on budget issues. I'm going to be a squealer on the loss of life, because this weakens us as a nation. Weakens us. And I know all of you know that. I also want to thank a great president who has done a lot in the first two weeks in office. In the last four years, I said repeatedly, as AG, we need to declare the cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. He got that done. I said, "We need to do that so we can send military to the border to secure it." He got that done.

(02:23:12)
Oh, and by the way, when I pointed out as miss, I should say Dr. Farfan said "Transnational problems require transnational solutions." When I pointed out that the Mexican president at the time said, "Fentanyl is not our problem. I'm a Mexico first president. Fentanyl is an American problem." Soon thereafter, our commander-in-chief said that Mexico was a great partner. I am so glad that we have a president now that within the first two weeks leveraged tariffs that now Mexico, and Canada have both pledged resources, and bodies to help shut those borders, and stop the flow of fentanyl. That's how you get stuff done. It can happen if you have people committed to it. Transnational problems do require a transnational effort, and I'm glad we have a commander-in-chief holding feet to the fire, and getting it done. There's been a 350% increase in fentanyl deaths among our teens in the last three years, four years.

(02:24:21)
I want to just say as a mother, I could barely hold it together when I was listening to your testimony, I have a teenager right now. I cannot imagine the indescribable, overwhelming, traumatic pain that you have suffered, but I want to thank you for being here, for sharing your stories, most importantly, for sharing your children's stories so that we could not only honor Daniel, and Devon, remember them, but bring meaning to what you have gone through so that other parents, I want to say I, and you, and other parents right now of teenagers, we're about the first generation of parents having to deal with this mess. We're learning as we go. You are on the front lines in this fight helping us leading the way, shining the light. We've got your back, but we need you showing us where to go, and I want to thank you for that. I want to start with you Mrs. Norring. What platform did your son obtain counterfeit pill that contained a lethal dose of Fentanyl?

Bridgette Norring (02:25:32):

Snapchat.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:25:33):

And I'd like to move to you, Mr. Puerta. What platform did your son find a counter counterfeit pill that contained a lethal dose of fentanyl?

Jaime Puerta (02:25:45):

Snapchat.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:25:47):

Snapchat has become a vast online drug market. There is no doubt that it facilitates drug sales to vulnerable children. Many who think they're buying Xanax, or Percocet, or Adderall, when in reality it is a pill that has a lethal dose of fentanyl. Seven out of 10 counterfeit pills now have a lethal dose of fentanyl, many of these one pill can kill four adults. That is what is out there lurking for our children. The National Crime Prevention Council estimates 80% of teen, and young adult fentanyl poisoning deaths can be traced to social media. And I know we're talking about Snapchat, because that is what brought tragedy upon your lives, but there are other social media platforms where children, vulnerable populations are obtaining access to drugs. Teens can now get drugs so easily. The cartels think of these social media platforms as their Uber Eats for quick delivery right into the hands of our children.

(02:26:53)
I agree with you, Mr. Puerta, and Mrs. Norring. The bedroom is where we always thought our children could go upstairs, shut their door, and they would be safe, and that is no longer the case, which presents challenges to parents like we have never seen before. The DEA has warned Congress that cartels are now targeting young Americans through platforms fueling the fentanyl epidemic. Every week, the equivalent of a high school classroom's worth of students dies from fentanyl overdose deaths. This is an incredible statistic. If we saw this with any other product, there would be federal law shutting down these products to make them safe before they could go back on market, and we saw this time, and time again in the automobile industry. When we started losing people to faulty automobiles, there was a stop sale order. They had to become safe before they could be sold again.

(02:27:51)
Why can't something similar be applied to social media platforms? Especially when the death toll is so egregious? I mean, you can look at the deaths from some of these automobiles, and that was over years. The Pinto was 89 deaths, or 180 deaths. The two fast Toyota was 89 deaths. What did I say? Pinto, 180 deaths Ford Broncos, 823 deaths. We lose way more than that just in kids overdosing from fentanyl every single year. We have got to get going. We have got to get stuff done, and so I would just say this, "This is what happens when you're the junior senator, and you're last." If you could tell us Congress after we pass the Halt Fentanyl Act, which deals with the changing the chemical compound to get around the laws, after that, what is the most important thing we can do to stop the death toll on our children here in the United States?

Bridgette Norring (02:28:49):

I would say senator, passing the Kids Online Safety Act, the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act, the social media reform really needs to take the front line. Section 230 reform needs to be done because you cannot continue having these platforms have that kind of power over the parents, and be allowed to kill our children in a sense.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:29:12):

Mr. Puerta?

Jaime Puerta (02:29:14):

Well, there's a lot that we can do. Definitely have to schedule the fentanyl, and all of its as analogous, elicit fentanyl into the schedule one drug. I would also say though that we have to target the supply chain. We have to strengthen border security. We have to crack down on a chemical supply. We have to destroy the cartel infrastructure. We have to increase intelligence sharing between both countries, support Mexico Security Forces, expand sanctions, and designations. We have to cut off their finances. TD Bank was just find four billion dollars because they were caught laundering all of this money from the cartels. Why is nothing happening to the American banks here in this country who's laundering the money? There's so much that we can do. I, as a parent, shouldn't have all this information. I'm just a small business owner from Santa Clara, California. Why do I have all this information?

(02:30:06)
Because I had to study this. Because I don't want more kids to die, have to go after the launderers. We have to go out target corrupt officials on both sides of the aisle, not on the aisle, but in Mexico, and here in the United States, we have to seize assets. We have to also reduce the demand for drugs here in the United States. There are a lot of people who are addicted to drugs here in the United States, and we have nothing for them. Nothing. We have Medi-Cal. Maybe that'll give them thirty-day rehabilitation, and then you're out on your own. We got to get them help as well. We have to expand addiction, and treatment, and recovery. We have to increase penalties for distributors. We have to hold Mexico accountable, pressure the Mexican government to do more, obviously.

(02:30:46)
We have to leverage trade, and diplomatic tools, military intervention as a last resort. Mr. Trump, Donald Trump, our president, just designated them as all criminal cartels, as FTOs, as a foreign terrorist organization. I think that's wonderful. I think that's needed, but we have the same problem here in the United States as well. So, I think that it has to be bilateral, it has to be bipartisan, and there's a lot that needs to be done, if not more kids are going to die. But definitely the first, and most important aspect of this is getting this scheduled as a scheduled one. We have to do it because if not more kids are going to continue dying.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:31:34):

Thank you for being here.

Jaime Puerta (02:31:34):

Thank you.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:31:35):

Thank you for your advising us, and Devin, and Daniel certainly will be remembered in this committee, and you've made sure of that. Thank you so much. At this time I get the honor of recognizing Senator Tillis.

Senator Thom Tillis (02:31:50):

Well, what a rise. You're already chair.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:31:55):

So they tell me.

Senator Thom Tillis (02:31:57):

I think that what we just heard is really the mood of Congress in general. Mrs. Farfan, first to the, I've spoken with too many families who are suffering through what you've suffered through. We have to change things. Mrs. Farfan, I was here for the opening testimony [inaudible 02:32:15] and you wanted to focus on the southern migration of weapons. I believe that's a serious concern, but you said something that concerned me, and it had to do with the will of the Mexican government. See, and I want you to, first I should say I do believe that we have to hold the social media platforms accountable, but make no mistake about it, these thugs that run the cartels, will find another way to get this poison here. If we don't dampen, if we don't do things that reduce the demand, and if we don't disrupt the supply, it'll just be a different way for the snakes to get this poison into our country.

(02:32:55)
So, we need to be smart, and not high five if we do something with 230 that gets it off social media platforms, these disgusting murderers, and poisoners will find a way. So, we have to look at this like a multivariable equation, and maybe come up with some solutions. But I want your perspective on this. I feel like the cartels in Mexico are reaching an almost co-equal branch of government in Mexico. I can't reconcile your opening statement with the reality that today the plazas on the northern border of Mexico are run by the cartels. The people trying to cross the border pay a fee. They're making more money off of human trafficking than they are drug smuggling. The Sinaloa cartels have what they call the Sinaloa Air Force who come, and drop fentanyl, and ultralites, and go back home. The Mexican government does not have control over the situation.

(02:33:53)
There are precursors coming into Mexican ports, and they're being transferred to cartels who are manufacturing methamphetamine, and fentanyl at scale, and finding ways to get it into this country. Not in many cases with American citizens being the mules coming across the border. I get that. Certainly more American citizens responsible for the distribution to these children, and adults of all ages who are dying. It's interesting to me that President Trump was criticized for putting a potential tariff on Mexico. Everybody said it was going to be horrible. It's going to kill the economy. The only thing that it did over the course of a few days is prompt the now current president of Mexico to deploy 10,000 troops to the border. Well, if there's no problem, if there's no problem with them being an equal partner to the difficulties we have at the border, why would they that? Because they're just afraid of a tariff, or are they recognizing that we're shedding light on a situation of the southern border that they have simply not made a priority? Why would they do that?

Dr. Cecilia Farfan (02:35:03):

Well, I cannot speak on behalf of the Mexican government. I do not work…

Senator Thom Tillis (02:35:07):

Well, let me just back up then, because you're a smart person. I just absolutely reject out of hand that we've got to deal with the illicit trade, and guns going across the border. I agree with that. In fact, I got in trouble with some gun advocates Second Amendment advocacy groups because I agree that we got to fix that problem. And maybe just for the record, you can suggest to me why you think Mexico has done everything they have to play their part in preventing this poison from being manufactured? China in plain sight is sending precursors. The Mexican whoever's running the ports, and who are allowing supply chains to occur, or allowing it to occur at scale. And over a hundred thousand people are dying every year in this country, many of them as a result of fentanyl, or opioids. More people die in North Carolina as a result of overdoses for fentanyl, or opioids than people die on our highways.

(02:36:10)
Most of this, most reasonable people unless for the purposes of QFRs, you can send me evidence that Mexico needs to wake up, and be a partner, and a friend to our south, and address this as the problem that it is, and it's happening in plain sight among the Mexican authorities, and among the cartels who have organized the plazas at the northern border, and they are running it. There's no way that Mexico sends 10,000 troops to their northern border if they don't think they've got a problem that President Trump has illuminated. Thank you all for being here today, but please understand that some of the things you've asked for are all just steps in the right direction, but this is far more complicated than any one thing we can do, and I look forward to continuing engage with you. Thank you.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:36:58):

Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Graham?

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:37:00):

Thank you very much. Sheriff Barnes, you've been involved in this space for quite a while, right? How would you describe the role of China, and the fentanyl problem America faces?

Donald Barnes (02:37:12):

China is the first domino of the tips in contributing to the fentanyl crisis. They're the contributor of the vast majority of the precursor chemicals. And if we deal with that, that would be the great first step in dealing with the [inaudible 02:37:27]

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:37:26):

When they say they're not, they're lying, right?

Donald Barnes (02:37:28):

I would say they're not being truthful. Yes.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:37:30):

Yeah, I would say they're lying. So, there's a 10% tariff on China. One of the things that President Trump would like to accomplish is to protect our country from fentanyl poisoning. Sheriff Barnes, which you say the DEA echoes without China, this couldn't happen. China is an essential ingredient in the poisoning of America by fentanyl to the Chinese Communist Party. You either change, or there will be consequences coming from the Trump administration, and the Congress. We're not going to sit by any longer, and watch you enrich yourselves, different companies in China, at the expense of America. So, be on notice you either change your practices regarding supporting drug cartels in Mexico, China, or you'll pay a heavy price, and that's not too much to ask. Do you agree Sheriff Barnes?

Donald Barnes (02:38:37):

I do, senator.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:38:39):

Doctor, how do you say your last name, ma'am?

Dr. Cecilia Farfan (02:38:44):

Farfan.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:38:44):

Okay. Do you think the drug cartels should be foreign terrorist organizations under US law?

Dr. Cecilia Farfan (02:38:53):

I'm going to comment on the impact that this could have on US-Mexico [inaudible 02:38:58].

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:38:57):

No, I didn't ask that. I just said do you think they're deserving of the debt designation?

Dr. Cecilia Farfan (02:39:03):

I believe it would really hinder the notion of sheer responsibility that is in the corner [inaudible 02:39:08] US-Mexico security cooperation.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:39:10):

I think they've earned it a thousand times over, and to our friends in Mexico, we want to work with you, but we're not going to sit on the sidelines any longer, and watch drug labs right below the southern border, manufacture out in the opening fentanyl, and other drugs to kill Americans. We want to work with you. Sheriff Barnes, do you believe that in many ways Mexico's lost sovereignty over this issue?

Donald Barnes (02:39:41):

I believe the Mexican laws have failed domestically, and I believe that that has had downrange effects on us lives.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:39:51):

So, to our friends in Mexico, we appreciate you sending the soldiers, but that's just a first step, as Senator Tillis said, we need to put the drug tells cartels on notice. You cannot thrive, and survive the way you're doing today. Why are they in the drug business? Because the return on investment is large, and the risk is small. They'll get out of this business when some of them get killed, or go to jail. Do you agree with that, Sheriff Barnes?

Donald Barnes (02:40:16):

I do agree with that. I think that's a complex issue, but they're one component of it obviously is the manufacturers. There's lack of accountability, and until we address the issues on both sides, the addiction issue north of the border, and the supply issue south of the border, and many other things that have to happen.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:40:31):

Well, I'm talking about the drug cartels. They're in this business, because it seems to be a good business.

Donald Barnes (02:40:35):

They are the equivalent of Amazon, a Fortune 100 company. They operate in scale.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:40:39):

I can't say it any better. And they're making money at the expense of us to the two families. [inaudible 02:40:48] Mrs. Norring, Mr. Puerta, how do you say your last name?

Jaime Puerta (02:40:52):

Puerta. Puerta. It's okay, though. I understand. You can't roll the R's. It's okay.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:40:57):

Yeah, I have a lot of problems speaking at times, but I don't have any problem understanding what you're telling me. Both of you're telling me that your loved ones paid the ultimate price because of failed policies. Do you both agree with that?

Jaime Puerta (02:41:17):

Yes, senator.

Bridgette Norring (02:41:18):

I agree, senator.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:41:19):

Okay. If you want to deal with this, we need to repeal section 230. You should be allowed to sue.

Bridgette Norring (02:41:26):

I agree, senator.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:41:27):

Snapchat should be sued.

Jaime Puerta (02:41:30):

Absolutely.

Senator Lindsey Graham (02:41:31):

All these companies should be sued, because they're fostering an environment that is killing people. They are a dangerous product. It's the only companies I know of in America that there is no government agency really regulating their behavior, and you can't sue them. And there are really no laws on the books that control their behavior, empower consumers. So, if you feel hopeless out there as a parent, and helpless, there's a reason you feel that way, because there's not a damn thing you can do about it. That needs to change, I wish you well in your lawsuits, and I will until my last breath here, try to repeal section 230. Thank you all very much.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:42:10):

Thank you, Senator Graham. Senior to me, Senator Graham. A lot can be done besides just allowing people to sue. I mean we as the federal government can enact laws to stop this from happening in our country. It's abhorrent that more has not been done to stop this. And I wanted to just touch on a few things I was confused by, and hope that we can get some enlightenment on that. I'm wife of a law enforcement officer. I was a federal prosecutor myself going after transnational criminal organizations, and drug traffickers. And it was not uncommon that those wishing to push poison into our United States were not US citizens. In fact, many actions taken against cartel members, or otherwise were against foreign nationals.

(02:43:08)
In fact, it was confusing to me that I heard a question about DEA participating in trying to help, and assist with removing those who are legally committing crimes, especially those committing drug trafficking crimes while we're in the middle of a drug crisis. Why that would be confusing, or even suggested that that might be a waste of resource when, in my experience, and certainly in my husband's experience, many of his cases, especially involving drug trafficking dealt with foreign nationals. It's not surprising to me that they would enlist the drug enforcement administration to assist. So, I would like to ask Sheriff Barnes, could you speak to the claim that most prosecutions for fentanyl trafficking is being done against US citizens?

Donald Barnes (02:44:01):

Yes. I think the data that was said, first you have to look at this in the population that we're dealing with, you have the trafficking component, which is a large scale in mass bringing across the border Narcotics. And then you have the distribution, and sales part of that. And that oftentimes includes Americans on both sides. But those American citizens participating have a direct nexus to, on our acting, on behalf of the cartels, they're being compensated by the cartels for their actions, and their trafficking. They're not operating independent of that.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:44:35):

Generally speaking, Sheriff Barnes, once you have the upper echelons of cartels, start pushing distribution down into the United States, and others in the United States, that takes multiple people, correct? Thousands, in fact?

Donald Barnes (02:44:50):

Yes, it's a very organized marketing distribution network, but the profits, proceeds, and actors are all tied to the cartels. The drugs coming across have a nexus, the cartels, regardless of citizenry, the distribution is on behalf, and behest of the cartels, and the profits are laundered domestically to hide that in the continental of the United States, or are transited back across the border to the profit of the cartels.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:45:18):

Recognizing the extent of the damage inflicted on our nation, and our vulnerable populations from this crisis, and recognizing that so little has been done in the last four years, does it surprise you that across agency effort to reel back some of the damage is being put into place?

Donald Barnes (02:45:40):

No, I do not think that's surprising. I think it's necessary to collaborate across not just different agencies but different layers of government down to the local level. I think it's also necessary to synergize those efforts in a very coordinated fashion. Else we're just plain whack-a-mole with the cartels. It's not any one thing. It's doing 12 things simultaneously in a very coordinated fashion that's going to, I think, hinder the cartels, and start making a difference.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:46:03):

And in your opinion, the cooperation, and partnership of state, and local law enforcement is necessary to start having an effect to reel back in some of what's happened over the last four years.

Donald Barnes (02:46:19):

I think that even before four years ago, and even more now, it's necessary to collaborate, develop partnerships in a vertical fashion, whether our federal, state, and locals, and horizontally across those same plains, federal agency to federal agency, state to state, local to local, and have a more intentional conversation, and quite honestly, a collaborative, coordinated effort to be on the offense rather than playing the defense, we'd been on the defense too long, and responding to the cartels, they're going to pivot around us. We need to be ahead of their next move to out maneuver them, and anticipate what they're going to do next.

Senator Ashley Moody (02:46:56):

A devastating crisis certainly requires strong actions to solve it. When we first started using the term, just say no. I say we, although I was very young at the time, I don't know about y'all. I was very young. When Nancy Reagan first said "Just say no." We were in a crisis of overdose deaths in our nation. We lost a little over 3000 nationwide a year. We now lose 110,000 Americans every year. And I think it's important when we use the word crisis over, and over so that we don't become immune to that, and that we recognize the magnitude of what we are dealing with, that we remember what we used to frame as a crisis is now a national travesty. And if anyone says that this hasn't kneecapped the strength of our nation, they do not know what they are talking about. And so I want to thank again Chairman Grassley for calling this hearing.

(02:48:04)
Again, just to put it in perspective, we're in the 119th Congress. This is our first non-nomination hearing in this committee, and it was on fentanyl, the number one killer of working, and fighting-age Americans. You were a part of this. This is a big deal moving forward, and hopefully the energy that not just our witnesses today brought, but the energy of everyone in this room, especially those that stood up, and have felt this for so long, and have directed that passion, and that emotion towards change, and progress. The 119th Congress hears you, we see you, and I'm going to be a squealer to make sure that they take action, and move forward. So, we appreciate you being here today. We appreciate all the witnesses for being here today. I used to be a judge before I went into this crazy, chaotic world of politics. I'm feeling back at home. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you so much.