David Perdue Confirmation Hearing

Senator Daines (00:01):

… [inaudible 00:00:01] and expanding our market access. And notably, the United States is facing unprecedented drug war. Last year, nearly 100,000 Americans died due to fentanyl poisoning.

(00:14)
So where is this fentanyl coming from? It's Mexican drug cartels, primarily, that manufacture these lethal drugs, but its chemicals coming straight from China to these cartels that are manufacturing the drugs. China must do its part to stop exporting these raw materials across the globe.

(00:36)
These challenges are daunting. We need an ambassador who is clear-eyed about the geopolitical realities we face, but one who also possesses a deep understanding for the culture and the customs of the Chinese people. And that person is David Perdue, a husband, a father, a grandfather, a man of faith, and a man of character. He loves his country. He'll put America first at home and abroad.

(01:08)
David and Bonnie, thank you for getting back in the arena and thank you for being willing to serve our great country.

Mr. Risch (01:19):

Thanks so much, Senator Daines. Ms. Crowley, Senator Cruz is going to introduce you, but he isn't here yet, so again, I want to apologize. We're going to do things a… [inaudible 00:01:32] Senator Paul's here.

Speaker 3 (01:34):

So we have numbers, we're good to vote.

Mr. Risch (01:37):

What's that?

Speaker 3 (01:37):

We're good to vote. We have a quorum.

Mr. Risch (01:39):

Okay. Is it all right if we take the business meeting?

Speaker 1 (01:42):

Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Risch (01:43):

We're going to adjourn the hearing and go to a business meeting briefly. Please be with us. We have one holdover from the last business meeting we had and that is Mr. Reed Rubinstein. So I'll call the business meeting to order. Is there a motion to report Mr. Rubinstein to the floor with record-

Speaker 4 (02:03):

Moved.

Mr. Risch (02:03):

It's been moved. Has there a second?

Speaker 5 (02:04):

Second.

Mr. Risch (02:05):

Been Moved and seconded. Is there a debate? Yes, Senator Shaheen.

Senator Shaheen (02:08):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I just want to say a few words about the nominee who has been chosen to be the legal advisor for the State Department, Mr. Rubinstein. Now, I believe that each nominee should have a chance to make his or her case in a hearing before this committee and Mr. Rubinstein was given that chance.

(02:28)
But at a time when this administration is showing disregard for the law and the constitution, I found it deeply troubling that at this hearing, Mr. Rubinstein would not commit to upholding the law. This shouldn't be a difficult question, especially for an attorney with Mr. Rubinstein's history. It should not be a position that attracts a lot of attention, but the person filling this role has enormous influence over the direction of our nation's foreign policy. The role advises the Secretary of State and the entire State Department on everything from the law of war to issuing visas to arms sales, to keeping Congress informed.

(03:09)
I support nominees who are experienced and deserving of Senate confirmation regardless of who nominates them, but I don't believe that Mr. Rubinstein should be confirmed, particularly at this moment in time for such a consequential position when he couldn't even say that he would uphold the rule of law. So I intend to oppose his nomination and I hope my colleagues carefully consider, as I know they always do, their votes.

Mr. Risch (03:38):

Thank you Senator Shaheen. We appreciate that. Is there further debate on the nomination? There be none, the clerk will call the roll.

Clerk (03:45):

Mr. Ricketts?

Mr. Ricketts (03:48):

Aye.

Clerk (03:48):

McCormick?

Mr. McCormick (03:48):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Daines?

Senator Daines (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Hagerty?

Mr. Hagerty (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Barrasso?

Mr. Barrasso (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Lee?

Mr. Lee (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Paul?

Mr. Paul (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:52):

Mr. Cruz?

Senator Cruz (03:52):

Aye.

Clerk (03:59):

Mr. Scott?

Mr. Scott (03:59):

Aye.

Clerk (03:59):

Mr. Curtis.

Mr. Curtis (03:59):

Aye.

Clerk (03:59):

Mr. Cotton?

Speaker 2 (03:59):

Aye by proxy.

Mr. Risch (04:03):

Aye by proxy.

Clerk (04:05):

Ms. Shaheen.

Senator Shaheen (04:06):

No.

Clerk (04:06):

Mr. Coons.

Senator Shaheen (04:08):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:09):

Mr. Murphy?

Senator Shaheen (04:10):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:11):

Mr. [inaudible 00:04:12].

Senator Shaheen (04:12):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:15):

Mr. Merkley?

Senator Shaheen (04:16):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:17):

Mr. Booker?

Senator Shaheen (04:17):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:18):

Mr. Schatz?

Senator Shaheen (04:18):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:19):

Mr. Van Hollen?

Senator Shaheen (04:20):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:22):

Ms. Duckworth?

Senator Shaheen (04:23):

No by proxy.

Clerk (04:25):

Ms. Rosen?

Ms. Rosen (04:26):

No.

Clerk (04:26):

Mr. Chairman?

Mr. Risch (04:29):

Aye. Clerk, a report?

Clerk (04:32):

Mr. Chairman, the ayes are 12, the nays are 10.

Mr. Risch (04:34):

The motion has carried. We'll adjourn the business meeting and return to our nominations hearing. With that, Senator Cruz having arrived, would you care to introduce Ms. Crowley?

Senator Cruz (04:50):

Thank you Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Shaheen, members of the committee. It is with great pleasure that I get to introduce a leader, a patriot, and my longtime friend, Monica Crowley. I've had the pleasure for knowing Monica for decades now. In fact, she was one of the very first people to have me on her radio show some 20 years ago when I was the SG of Texas. And we had been friends. She later became one of my very first supporters when I decided to run for Senate. So for everything I have done wrong to you, you can blame Monica, it is her fault.

Mr. Risch (05:26):

This is not good.

Senator Cruz (05:29):

I may be lobbying for votes against you on both sides of the aisle, I apologize for that.

(05:34)
Apart from her distinguished character and her exemplary leadership, Monica has all the credentials for the position of Chief of Protocol. She has multiple master's degrees and holds a Ph.D. in International Relations from Columbia University. She is a New York Times Bestselling Author. And she's had an extremely successful media career.

(05:56)
On top that, Monica's worked for two presidents. At just 22 years old, Monica was hired as a research assistant under President Richard Nixon. And she remained quite close to President Nixon. And I will say, to this day, both Monica and Hugh Hewitt are angry at me because I wrote a book chapter blasting Nixon as a crook, I apologize Monica, but he was a crook. She later served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Trump's first term.

(06:26)
Monica is dedicated to service and has been a leader in the academy in media and government. Once again, she is stepping forward to serve our nation at the highest level of diplomatic engagement and she is well qualified to represent the president and the interest of the American people overseas and at home. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the committee, I highly encourage you to support the nomination of Monica for Assistant Secretary of State, Ambassador and Chief of Protocol.

Mr. Risch (06:58):

Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator Cruz. What we'll do now is I'm going to make a few opening remarks. I'm going to then yield to my distinguished colleague to do likewise. We will then hear from the two nominees. We'll then open it up to a round of five-minute questions and a second round if there's a desire to do so.

(07:19)
So let me say that, today, we will consider two more of President Trump's nominees, Ms. Monica Crowley to be the State Department's Chief of Protocol and Mr. David Perdue to be the Ambassador to China.

(07:32)
Senator Perdue, I might say, about many of our nominees that we see here, that they have a big job ahead of them. That goes really very strongly for you. China's our biggest challenge over the rest of this century. We all know that they challenge us in many ways. And I would say that President Trump and I agree that China is America's greatest long-term competitor to put it as kindly as I possibly can at this moment.

(08:05)
But as you know, the previous administration treated China like an ally who we disagreed with rather than an authoritarian aggressor that takes advantage of America and our allies at every level. The Chinese government is fundamentally different than that of the United States.

(08:22)
Where America promotes free markets and innovation, China clamps down on business, steals IP and dumps its products distorting American markets. Where America believes that every person was created equal and has God-given inalienable rights, the Chinese government is committing genocide against the Muslim Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minority groups in China and harass people in the United States living on American soil who disagree with the Chinese Communist Party. And where America believes in protecting a free and open Indo-Pacific, the Chinese government coerces its neighbors and pursues the opposite.

(09:04)
China isn't acting alone here, but rather it is building an authoritarian alliance with Russia, Iran, and North Korea to undercut the United States. And through its Belt and Road Initiative, China looks to recruit nontraditional allies around the world, luring them in with predatory investments to draw them farther away from America. In this administration and in his first term, president Trump demonstrated he will be tough on China and he'll do the work to get results.

(09:33)
I look forward to hearing about how you will execute on his vision and address the myriad economic, military, technological and ideological threats that China poses to the United States of America. Particularly, I hope to hear how you will compel the Chinese government to address the flow of fentanyl into the United States and stop China from financially propping up companies that produce it. I know that with President Trump at the helm, the days of endless dialogue to no effect are over. I hope you make it clear to your Chinese counterparts that they won't be able to sweet talk their way out of making real change any longer.

(10:12)
Ms. Crowley at this turbulent time in foreign policy, you'll be at the center of many of the important conversations, difficult negotiations, and of course, the happy celebrations that will mark this administration. As Chief of Protocol, you'll be charged with creating an environment that is conducive for working with our allies, encountering our adversaries all to advance President Trump and Secretary Rubio's foreign policy.

(10:36)
I look forward to hearing how you'll work to foster cooperation that advances American interests. I appreciate both of you for being here today. I appreciate both of you be willing to serve under what are going to be difficult circumstances as we go forward. And with that, I will turn it over to my distinguished ranking member, Senator Shaheen.

Senator Shaheen (10:55):

Thank you Chairman. Welcome to today's nominees and to your families. We appreciate your willingness to continue to serve the country.

(11:05)
Around the world right now, China is stepping in as we are stepping back, sadly. China's replacing canceled American child nutrition programs in Cambodia. China's rescue workers are responding to the earthquake in Myanmar, before the United States. And Chinese disinformation is going to fill the vacuum that has been left by efforts to eliminate Radio Free Asia and Voice of America. And at the same time, the threats of tariffs and trade wars are undermining trust in the United States as a reliable partner to China's advantage. Just this week, two longtime allies, Japan and South Korea, met with China to deepen trade ties in response to President Trump's tariffs. This is a trend that extends beyond Asia, sadly. From Greenland to the Panama Canal, saber-rattling to extract concessions will lead friendly governments around the world to hedge their bets with the United States, to explore closer relationships with China in the longterm.

(12:09)
Take the Republic of Georgia, for example, which canceled a port contract with Western firms. Recent reports indicate that it intends to award that project, which is on the Black Sea, to a Chinese company. This is an issue that both Chairman Risch and I have worked very hard on to try and move Georgia forward and it's deeply disappointing to see this opportunity slip away.

(12:32)
Senator Perdue, I know that you're aware of the challenge that China poses, we had a very good conversation when we met before this hearing. I know that presidents of both parties have also recognized this threat and that President Trump certainly has articulated this threat, but I'm afraid that despite recognizing the threat, we're actually weakening our hand by our actions.

(12:59)
Congress' failure to extend the Global Engagement Center last year was a serious setback for our ability to counter disinformation. Meanwhile, China's spending billions of dollars on propaganda. We need more tools like the Global Engagement Center, not fewer.

(13:16)
Beijing sells itself as a reliable, anti-colonial answer to America, but of course, we know that's not true. The Chinese Communist Party ruthlessly targets diaspora communities and human rights groups. They leverage corrupt investments to influence decision makers from Africa and Latin America across Asia, and they've tried to buy off politicians in Australia and New Zealand to undermine democratic elections. And Beijing is not afraid to use hard power. China's Coast Guard harasses Philippine forces. Beijing is stepping up military exercises over the Taiwan Strait, including just this past week. And in Ukraine, China and North Korea have been actively supporting Putin's war machine.

(14:04)
In light of President Trump's tariffs, Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter into the record a foreign affairs article by Stephen Brooks who is a professor at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire. It's titled The Real China Trump Card: The Hawk's Case Against Decoupling.

Mr. Risch (14:22):

That will be entered in the record.

Senator Shaheen (14:23):

Thank you. It says that, and I quote, "A peacetime decoupling would cost Washington one of the strongest tools it has to deter Chinese aggression."

(14:33)
Senator Perdue, you certainly have your work cut out for you. I look forward to hearing your plans for what you hope to achieve, if confirmed, to lead the U.S. mission in the People's Republic of China. The dismantling of U.S. foreign assistance, ending support for independent media and the erosion of alliances means you'll go into this position with fewer tools to counter the PRC. So I'd like to understand how you plan to manage one of the greatest adversaries of our time in this context.

(15:04)
Ms. Crowley, I'm sure you noted that I have focused the bulk of my remarks on the issue of China, but I also want to hear from you on how you would approach the post of Chief of Protocol, should you be confirmed.

(15:17)
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Risch (15:19):

Thank you Senator Shaheen. Well, David, you've heard Gene and I lay this thing out, you're sure you still want to do this?

The Honorable David Perdue (15:26):

Yes sir.

Mr. Risch (15:27):

All right, have at it. You got five minutes to tell us why. Thanks so much. And we'd ask you both to keep your remarks to five minutes. Anything else you want to put in the record, we'll extend it as long as you'd like in the record. Thank you.

The Honorable David Perdue (15:38):

Well, thank you Mr. Chairman and ranking member, Chairman Risch, Ranking member Shaheen, members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and staff. Good morning. And thank you for this opportunity to meet with you today. Senator Daines, thank you as well for that generous introduction.

(15:55)
It's my high honor to have been nominated by President Trump to become our country's 14th ambassador to the People's Republic of China. As a former member of this committee though, I have to tell you, it feels very strange sitting over here, Mr. Chairman, instead of sitting over there.

(16:10)
Supporting me here today is my wife, Bonnie, whom I met in first grade. That's a true story. Our sons, David, Blake, their wives, Danielle and Charlotte, our grandsons, Hudson, David, and Jack are all watching from home. They have other responsibilities today. Unexpectedly, also joining me today is my other family, my past alumni of my Senate staff are here. I think they're here, Mr. Chairman and ranking member, to make sure I don't embarrass them, so I welcome them as well.

(16:42)
As a Fortune 500 CEO, as a U.S. senator, and as an expat living in Europe and Asia, I developed a global perspective on the relationship between our two countries. As chair of the SFRC State Department Oversight Subcommittee and the SASC Sea Power Subcommittee, I've witnessed firsthand the complexities of our relationship with China, which is the most consequential diplomatic challenge of the 21st century.

(17:09)
Since establishing formal relations with the PRC in 1979, the United States has opened its markets to China and has supported its economic rise. More than 2 million Chinese students have been educated in American universities. With U.S. support, China has taken full advantage of most-favored-nation, WTO's membership and developing nation status, but has often failed to live up to commensurate responsibilities.

(17:36)
China has also expanded its authoritarian influence in international organizations like the United Nations, NATO, The World Bank, not NATO, WHO, WHO, The World Bank, sorry.

(17:49)
Marxist nationalism is reshaping China and their global ambitions threaten the current world order. Since 2000, China has doubled its nuclear arsenal, grown its military at a pace unseen Since World War II, they've militarized the South China Sea and violated their agreement in Hong Kong. Their social credit score system and extensive policing capability are designed to enforce domestic state control. Their Belt Road Initiative and their Made in China 2025 statements demonstrate their global ambitions. They speak of a global, quote, "community of common destiny for all mankind." Put simply, they want a world order more in line with their authoritarian principles.

(18:35)
Complicating the current situation, unfettered globalization with minimal national security constraints has led to the situation today where many of America's key, strategic supply chains are in the hands of our adversaries. President Trump's America First strategy is not isolationist, just the reverse. America will be a stronger ally and partner by rebuilding our strategic supply chains at home and with our friends. It's not inconsistent that while we're negotiating for fair trade, we're also seeking to strengthen our ties with our allies. Our relationship with members of the Quad, AUKUS, ASEAN, and NATO will continue to be extremely important.

(19:17)
The Chinese respect, strength, and President Trump's strategy is focused on making America safer, stronger, and more prosperous, that means that reciprocity in the U.S. security should be considered in all dealings with China and the United States. Our approach to China should be nuanced, nonpartisan, and strategic. Our two countries will naturally have areas of disagreement and we should actively engage on these. We should seek areas where our interest align to develop better and safer working relationships.

(19:53)
As ambassador, I will support our strategy to lead with diplomacy to ensure our own national and economic security remains uncompromised. I'll remain committed to promoting democratic ideals in an open, free, and fair international system. As ambassador, I'll support the United States' One China policy guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, The Three Joint Communiqués and The Six Assurances.

(20:18)
We remain committed to a peaceful resolution that is acceptable to the people on both sides of the strait. We oppose unilateral changes to the status quo. As ambassador I will ardently communicate our objections to China's penetration into our power grid, our ports, and our personal lives. Having participated in U.S. FONOP exercises in the South China Sea, I've seen firsthand China's militarization and will work to support open and free navigation whenever international law allows.

(20:52)
I will also ensure a focus on our priority to eliminate fentanyl precursors and hold China accountable on human rights. I'll work to increase the tempo of diplomatic dialogue, to get results and to achieve fair and reciprocal trade between the two economies.

(21:08)
I will uphold American values, represent American interest and support strong partnerships with our friends.

(21:16)
Finally, if confirmed, I look forward to working with America's dedicated foreign service, civil service personnel and their families who are at the tip of the spear promoting and protecting American interest in a very challenging environment in China. Mr. Chairman, ranking member, I approach this nomination with a strong sense of responsibility. I'm energized and sober about the opportunity to impact the most difficult diplomatic relationship of our time. Thank you for your consideration and I look forward to your comments and questions.

Mr. Risch (21:48):

Thank you, Senator. Ms. Crowley.

Ms. Monica Crowley (21:51):

Well, good morning. And thank you Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Shaheen and distinguished members of the committee. It's truly an honor to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee to serve as Chief of Protocol. It was the honor of my life to serve in the President's first administration and if confirmed, it will be an even greater honor to serve once again by representing this extraordinary president and our exceptional country. I am deeply grateful to President Trump for his faith in me and to this committee for its kind consideration.

(22:25)
I also want to thank Senator Cruz for his kind words, support and friendship over the years. And it's a privilege to share this hearing with my fellow nominee and friend, Senator David Perdue. I would not be here today without the unconditional love and encouragement of my mother, Patricia, my sister, Jocelyn, the rest of my wonderful family and my dearest friends, some of whom are with me here. I love you and I'm forever grateful to you. Above all, I thank God for truly blessing me as he has.

(22:57)
I appear before you today as a proud patriot who loves America with her whole heart. I was born at Fort Huachuca, Arizona where my father proudly served in the United States Army. My mother, who is an awe-inspiring person, was a devoted elementary school teacher and later built a career in hospital administration while raising my sister and me as a solo parent. She's truly my heroine.

(23:25)
My beloved maternal grandparents went from experiencing near-poverty during the Great Depression to building successful small businesses and sending the first generation in their family, my mother and aunt, to college. I believe in the American dream because my family and I have lived it with all of its blessings.

(23:45)
While studying International Relations at Colgate University, I was profoundly inspired by one of former President Richard Nixon's bestselling books on foreign policy, which ultimately led to my first professional position as Foreign Policy Assistant to the former president during the last years of his life, which is a critical point to make, Senator, the last years of his life.

(24:09)
I worked closely with him on his final two foreign policy bestsellers and many influential policy speeches, joined his international trips, met with numerous chiefs of state and other high ranking foreign officials, and served as a sounding board for his groundbreaking thinking on foreign affairs.

(24:27)
His extraordinary mentorship and unparalleled real-world experience were invaluable, particularly as I completed my graduate studies in International Relations at Columbia University, earning two master's degrees and a doctorate.

(24:43)
I've also enjoyed a prominent career as an opinion journalist on politics and foreign affairs for many national platforms, and as a New York Times Bestselling Author.

(24:54)
During President Trump's first term, I was honored to serve as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Public Affairs. During my tenure, I and the team I led, conceived, developed and executed communication strategies for the secretary, the department, and the Trump administration more broadly, including for complex policies such as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, international economic sanctions, and the unprecedented economic response to the COVID Pandemic.

(25:24)
For exceptional service to the nation, I received the Alexander Hamilton Award, the highest honor bestowed by the department.

(25:32)
I am now humbled to be nominated to serve as Chief of Protocol, an office with seven distinct divisions which carry out various elements of protocol-related programs, visits, the historic Blair House, ceremonials, diplomatic affairs, diplomatic partnerships, management, and major events. Each division is responsible for planning, supporting and executing various aspects of diplomatic engagement for the president, vice president and Secretary of State, as well as other high-ranking officials. It's a critically important role to enriching our diplomatic partnerships and advancing our interests around the world, and if confirmed, I will treat it with the committed dedication it deserves.

(26:18)
The Office of Protocol can, should and will showcase the very best of American leadership, strength, dynamism, and diplomacy. As chief, I will bring my considerable understanding of and experience in foreign affairs to the position and will, first, ensure that the office is managed with the utmost professionalism, two, serve the interests of the American people by helping to set the stage for robust, successful diplomacy, three, infuse our major events with a patriotic vibrancy reflecting President Trump's golden age of America, and fourth, ensure that the talented and dedicated team of political appointees and career civil servants work together in harmony to accomplish this mission with excellence in every detail.

(27:09)
Throughout my career as a leader, I've believed in embracing a clear vision, hiring and empowering the best, listening to wise counsel, enforcing accountability, and moving forward toward positive goals. If confirmed, I will follow those principles to help President Trump set a new gold standard for effective diplomacy. I pledge to be a faithful partner to this committee and to work with you to protect and advance our diplomatic partnerships and promote American values in service of a stronger, more secure and prosperous nation.

(27:46)
Thank you so much for your time. And I look forward to your questions.

Mr. Risch (27:49):

Well, thank you Ms. Crowley. We'll now do a round of five-minute questions and I as I said more if people want to go back. Senator Perdue, let me ask your thoughts on the no-limits partnership between Russia and China. There's been a lot made of this and of course, it's concerning and it needs to be watched. I've kind of thought of this when I watched them make that announcement. That kind of falls under the old adage of there's no honor among thieves. These two are not natural allies by any stretch of the imagination, and what we know about both of them is they'll throw anybody under the bus for their own good. What do you make of this and how do you see this going forward?

The Honorable David Perdue (28:36):

Well, thank you Mr. Chairman. First of all, I think this is primarily about trade between those two and also about the geopolitical position of China right now. About one-third of Russia's total revenue comes from China. China imports 73% of its oil. Iran, you haven't mentioned Iran, but I'll throw this in the mix too because it's a similar conversation, 90% of Iran's oil goes to China. Now, that money goes through Russia, we now know how they use that money. A lot of that money goes through Iran, we know how they're using that money, they're the largest perpetrator of terrorism in the world. About 80% of the dual-use equipment right now and technology in Russia comes from China. The oil that's being researched and drilled in the Arctic right now between these two is very troubling, and it's why China wants to become an Arctic power. What China and Russia are doing right now is untenable relative to China's involvement in supporting the war in Ukraine, supporting Iran and its support of terrorism around the world.

(29:42)
As ambassador, if I'm confirmed, my role over there will be to execute U.S. policy in order to make sure the Chinese understand what our commitments are and what we are going to stand for.

Mr. Risch (29:56):

Well, I appreciate that. Certainly a challenge. There's no question

(29:59)
I

Mr. Risch (30:02):

I want to ask you about a specific item that's maybe drilling a little deeper than what we usually do here, and that is, during the last administration, U.S. officials participated in events organized by the United Front Work Department. That of course is the Chinese Communist Party's key coordinating body, and they carry out influence operations inside and outside of China. And the U.S. participated in some of those events. What's your view on continued participation in Chinese Communist Party events?

The Honorable David Perdue (30:37):

Mr. Chairman, this is a long answer and I apologize. I would never-

Mr. Risch (30:41):

Give us the executive summary.

The Honorable David Perdue (30:42):

I would never filibuster you, sir, but I will say this. There was a book written in 1998 by two colonels in China. They studied the war in Iraq in '91 and they came up with a strategy that basically today is being executed by President Xi Jinping. If you look at that strategy, one of the things that is a major tenet in their strategy is to communicate their propaganda through all the barriers into countries they want to influence. They're being successful with that today.

(31:09)
To the Ranking Member's point earlier, this is something that I believe that President Trump realizes. One of the things I'm going to do if confirmed as Ambassador will be to stand up and try to inform people in the United States about the danger. It's very subliminal, Mr. Chairman, and they are masters at it. They do not attack you frontally. This goes back to Sun Tzu and Confucius. Their strategy, they will never tell you what they're going to do unless they've decided that you don't have the wherewithal and the will to resist them. We have got to get China out of our power grid, our ports, and our personal lives, Mr. Chairman. And the way they're in there is through propaganda in a major way.

Mr. Risch (31:47):

Thank you. I appreciate that. The universities are a real problem there too, as far as they're getting into them. I agree with you that they do this in a very opaque fashion where people don't even know what's happening, so I appreciate that.

(32:06)
Ms. Crowley, the job you have is an important job, obviously, by the very fact that you take that job with the rank of Ambassador. And we all know that you don't see much of the protocol people unless something goes upside down, and then it's a problem. I'm assuming that you will have people around you that are detail people, because that's going to be critically important. Senator Shaheen and I, when we first got here, we remember the state… I think it was the first state dinner that President Obama did, and we had a couple of people get in there that weren't on the list. It was a wreck to end all wrecks. As a result of that, we had to stand in line an hour every time we went up there. But tell me, you mentioned there were seven divisions. You don't have to go into all of them. Tell me generally how that's broken down and how-

Ms. Monica Crowley (33:01):

Yes. Well, thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chairman. There are seven divisions that work together in harmony on protocol-related programs, so visits overseas, visits of foreign dignitaries to the United States, making sure that they have everything they need to facilitate a conducive environment for the most successful diplomacy on both sides. But we are really here in the Office of Chief of Protocol - if I'm confirmed, I will ensure this - that we are here to serve the president, support the president, his vision and his agenda. The office has Visits. Obviously, President Trump has had a number of chiefs of state already visit. A number of bilats have already occurred, so Visits oversees that particular aspect. The historic Blair House welcomes visiting dignitaries and provides a five-star hotel experience for them at the invitation of the President of the United States, and Blair House is a wonderful asset for any administration to have to welcome guests to the United States. Ceremonials oversee ceremonial duties for the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of State.

(34:10)
Diplomatic Affairs oversee overseas relations with the Diplomatic Corps, and if confirmed, I look forward to enriching that relationship, because the Chief of Protocol is the most critical liaison between the administration and the Diplomatic Corps. Diplomatic Affairs overseas those relationships and handles any issues that may come up with the diplomatic corps. Diplomatic Partnerships is all about making sure that the Diplomatic Corps has the access and information they need to do their jobs well. And then of course you have Management, which is the day-to-day management of the Office of Chief of Protocol, and Major Events, which in the definition oversees major events including summits like the G7, the G20, NATO summits, and so on.

Mr. Risch (35:01):

Big job. Senator Shaheen.

Senator Shaheen (35:04):

Thank you. Senator Perdue, I have a long list of questions, but I want to start by following up on something you just said about information and information warfare, because the first hearing that we did before this committee this year was on China. And we heard testimony that China spends over a billion dollars a year on propaganda, on trying to sow disinformation and misinformation around the world. So can you talk about what you think we should do to respond to that?

The Honorable David Perdue (35:41):

Well, thank you, Madam Ranking Member. First of all, before I answer your question, I want to make a comment, Mr. Chairman, to thank the Ranking Member for your forbearance in my presence here today. This would not have happened in any other administration that I know about and you've done something today that's really never been done before, and I want to personally thank you. I will commit to you as well that in the future I will remind our Republican colleagues when the tables are turned that I will remind them of what you did today, so thank you very much.

Senator Shaheen (36:11):

Thank you.

The Honorable David Perdue (36:12):

To answer your question, this is one of the major dangers we have right now because, as the Chairman just said, it's very subtle. It's hard to recognize. There are two things that I would suggest, having lived over there and seen them doing this for the last 30 years. What we have to do is defend that here at home. That means we have to have an education system about the dangers that they provide us today. Most people are not aware that they're in our power grid. They're not aware that they're collecting our data. They're not aware that our ports can be manipulated by people in China, so that is an education process that we owe our people.

(36:48)
The second thing is I don't think this is a unilateral issue. I think that if you look at the relationships we have around the world, people have got to wake up that the world is bifurcating and China is accelerating that bifurcation. You have totalitarian states on one side, you have democratic states on the other. And as that study just said, the one you referred to at Dartmouth, that 34% of the world's global profit, the U.S. is responsible for that 34%. The rest of the world, in democratic world anyway, is about 32%. So they have about two thirds. China only has about 16% according to that study, and I would back that up in my personal experience. We've got to develop a relationship with these allies that will help us develop the message and communicate not just to China, but to the people that China is trying to perpetrate this on.

Senator Shaheen (37:39):

And I certainly agree with that, which is why I find dismantling the apparatus that we've had to do that so disturbing, that we no longer have what was so important as we were able to help encourage the fall of the Soviet Union, help provide factual information into those communist countries around the world, that the administration has suddenly dismantled all of that apparatus in ways that are going to not allow us to have that ability to provide factual information to counter what the Chinese are doing.

(38:23)
And I would ask you, Dr. Crowley, I know this is not part of your portfolio, but as somebody who has been very engaged in the media over the years, how important do you think it is that we are able to get across the differences between the United States and China to not just the PRC, but to the countries that they're trying to influence around the world?

Ms. Monica Crowley (38:49):

Well, thank you for that question, Ranking Member. I appreciate the question, and I also appreciate the importance of soft power, which is what your question gets to as well. I think the question before the administration is how best to do that. The President won with a historical mandate in last November's election, and part of that mandate was to root out waste, fraud, and abuse, make the government work more efficiently for the American people, and to protect the American taxpayer. I think those are things that all Americans agree on and support.

Senator Shaheen (39:23):

I think we all agree on waste, fraud, and abuse being good to get rid of. I think we would disagree on what is constituted waste, fraud, and abuse. And I don't think that dismantling our way of responding to our adversaries constitutes waste, fraud, and abuse.

Ms. Monica Crowley (39:42):

I think that the President is very interested in exercising the soft power, to your point, Ranking Member. And I think he's interested in making sure that American resources are directed in the most effective way to accomplish that.

Senator Shaheen (39:57):

I hope so. I am not convinced yet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Ricketts (40:04):

All right. Well, I'm up next. So first of all, I want to thank both of you for your past service to our great nation and for your families' service and your continuing desire to serve our great nation, so thank you both and thank you to the families.

(40:18)
Senator Perdue, as talked about, if you're confirmed, this is an immense challenge for you as well as for the United States with regard to what we do about communist China, who is not only an adversary but really our largest existential threat outside this country. Your tenure will take you past 2027, when Xi Jinping has told his military to be capable of taking Taiwan by force. This contingency becomes more real every day. In fact, just this week, the PLA conducted live-fire exercises around Taiwan simulating a blockade around that island.

(40:56)
Both to prevent war and to win this competition with Beijing, our policy toward communist China must be rooted in three simple things: strength, deterrence, and reciprocity. And it's that latter that I want to talk about right now, reciprocity. This is where I think you can have a huge impact as Ambassador in communicating to Beijing what our desires are. I'm going to start with just some simple, really yes or no questions. So Senator Perdue, is it fair that American diplomats and officials face a litany of restrictions in communist China, including the ability to travel freely, which Chinese officials don't face here? Is that fair?

The Honorable David Perdue (41:40):

Absolutely not, Senator.

Senator Ricketts (41:41):

is it fair that Chinese social media apps like WeChat can operate in the U.S. but American apps like Instagram and YouTube are banned in China? Is that fair?

The Honorable David Perdue (41:52):

Absolutely not, Senator.

Senator Ricketts (41:54):

is it fair that American movies must get approved by Chinese Communist Party censors to be released in China, but Chinese movies don't face that same restriction here? Is that fair?

The Honorable David Perdue (42:07):

It's not fair and it's not reciprocal.

Senator Ricketts (42:09):

Is it fair that despite being the world's second-largest economy, communist China benefits from being considered a developing nation in certain international organizations?

The Honorable David Perdue (42:20):

Will you give me a little liberty here to answer-

Senator Ricketts (42:21):

I'll let you have a little bit more on this one.

The Honorable David Perdue (42:23):

Just one sentence here.

Senator Ricketts (42:24):

Yeah.

The Honorable David Perdue (42:24):

It's not just its most-favored nation. They really didn't qualify to be a member of that in the beginning. It's the WTO. They need to live up to the responsibilities of that. And it's the developing nation status. I mean, this is the second-largest economy in the world, as you said, our number-one competitor, and no, I don't think that's fair.

Senator Ricketts (42:43):

Is it fair that U.S. businesses have to compete with Chinese-owned enterprises that receive massive subsidies from the Chinese government? Is that fair?

The Honorable David Perdue (42:50):

No, it's not.

Senator Ricketts (42:53):

Is it fair that communist China still forces technology transfers and steals intellectual property from U.S. companies?

The Honorable David Perdue (43:03):

Of course not.

Senator Ricketts (43:03):

Yeah. So I can go on and on and on and I can talk about, and you've already mentioned about, how communist China has hacked us in our telephone systems, our ports, our energy infrastructure, all these things where communist China is taking advantage of us and this double standard must stop. If confirmed, what will you take to ensure reciprocity with communist China?

The Honorable David Perdue (43:31):

Senator, thank you for that. That's a very thoughtful series of questions. First of all, there are several things we need to do in this country. Number one, to stand up to China. Not just in reciprocity. First of all, we've got to get our financial house in order. I can talk more about that, but I'll be out of your time. The second thing is we've got to rebuild our strategic supply chains. Rare earth elements, steel, shipbuilding, pharmaceuticals, chips, quantum computing. All of these, we've acquiesced through this globalization in the last two decades to basically China and people who would do us harm. The reciprocal nature that we want with China, I think President Trump is all over that. The starting conversation with trade. There are going to be many others. The treatment of how we treat their foreign service personnel in the United States versus how they treat ours in China is a big one.

(44:21)
We've also got to make sure that the allies understand what this is all about. It's not just about trade. It's one of the tools in the toolbox. We need partners in this bifurcation that I'm describing to the Ranking Member earlier. That's where I would start. As Ambassador, if I'm confirmed, I will promote U.S. values, U.S. interests, and the strategy that President Trump is drawing up right now to bring our allies together to make a united front against the PRC.

Senator Ricketts (44:47):

Great. Well, thank you very much, Senator Perdue, and I would again just stress that reciprocity is going to be key to the relationship. And you mentioned earlier how China respects strength. If we don't force them to treat us the same way that they're treating our people in their country or the way they treat us on the international stage, they won't respect us because that is not strength. Strength is saying to communist China, you will treat us the same way as we are treating you, or we're going to change the rules of the game. Thank you. Senator Rosen.

Senator Rosen (45:21):

Well, thank you, Senator Ricketts, and I want to thank Chairman Risch and Ranking Member Shaheen for holding this hearing. Of course, thank you, Senator Perdue, for willingness to continue to serve, and thank you Dr. Crowley for being here as well.

(45:36)
And I want to build a little bit on Senator Ricketts' comments about technology, critical emerging technology. And Senator Perdue, you know there's no doubt that the PRC is engaged in unfair trade practices to boost its own economy, to boost its standing internationally. In large part because of these harmful economic activities, the PRC risks supplanting the U.S. in a number of critical spheres, including AI, biotechnology, quantum computing, something we were all reminded of in January with the rollout of DeepSeek, which was a major wake-up call for the American tech sector.

(46:11)
So Senator Perdue, if confirmed, how will you make sure that the U.S. maintains its qualitative edge across the spectrum of critical and emerging technologies, including AI, which is so important?

The Honorable David Perdue (46:24):

Well, thank you Senator Rosen, and thank you for participating in this hearing. That's a great question, and one of the things that's already been mentioned today, and that is that we've got to protect what we're doing in this country better than we have in the last 30 years. This is not a partisan observation here. And it goes back to reciprocity, Senator Ricketts. If you look at the access we give to Chinese PhDs, Chinese technologists, into our private labs, into our military labs, and into our education institutions, we don't get that same access over there. We've educated 2 million Chinese, as we've said. 380,000 are in our schools today. The technology that's been forced to transfer through corporate deals made in China, I think a lot of those people in my experience have now come back to rue the day that they ever did that.

(47:14)
It's a false hope basically that to enter China and get access to 1.4 billion consumers, the price has been too high, Senator, in my experience, and I think you're going to see that change. That will mean the corporations who are funding a lot of this technological development will in fact begin to sober up about what they're having to give up in order to do that business.

Senator Rosen (47:33):

Thank you. We're going to keep talking about the PRC obviously because, well, they're doing a lot of bad things, needless to say. And we have to defend Tibet from PRC aggression. We not only have to defend ourselves against promote technology and artificial intelligence, but PRC aggression. Tibet faces many challenges because of the PRC's repressive rule. In addition to threatening Tibet's religious and cultural heritage, the PRC has weaponized their water resources in the region. The PRC's control over the water resources in the Tibetan plateau has the potential to severely threaten the water and food security, undermining the economic development in the region, which is important. It's why I recently submitted language to be included in the FY26 NDAA that would direct the Department of Defense to comprehensively analyze the PRC's national security risks related to Tibet, including its weaponization of water resources. We know water is the key to life.

(48:36)
So again, Senator Perdue, if confirmed, can I have your commitment to work with this committee to safeguard Tibet's culture, security, and water resources from PRC aggression?

The Honorable David Perdue (48:47):

Absolutely, Senator. If I may add one thing briefly, I know we're about out of your time, but this goes back. If you look at it, there are three things basically in memory, in my lifetime, basically, that the Chinese have made sweeping moves. They're moving in this water issue right now out west, but if you go back and look at the great leap forward, they killed 25 million Chinese in that reportedly, because they collectivized their agricultural capability and basically created starvation countrywide.

(49:17)
The second thing was the Cultural Revolution. Again, tens of millions of people died in that great government move. Today, we see them doing something similarly with state-owned enterprises and these massive programs they have. The damage they could do to the global environment, the water supply that we have, which is the basis of life, as you said, is very dangerous. If confirmed as Ambassador, this is one of the top topics that we will engage China on relative to President Trump and this administration's strategy.

Senator Rosen (49:43):

I'm going to ask quickly about, speaking of water, the PRC's reckless, coercive, aggressive activities to undersea infrastructure, because they sabotage undersea cables. It's a particularly alarming tactic. They're essential for global communications. They transmit 95% of global internet traffic, facilitate important financial transactions, bolster our security, the security of our partner and allies. So it's not the same as the water that we drink, but the undersea cables. How are we going to protect that?

The Honorable David Perdue (50:13):

That's a major threat, and it's one that emphasizes the fact that one of the things that I talked about in terms of standing up to this threat, number one, realize it. Number two, educate people about it. And number three, get ready for it. We haven't done any of those three, and the third one I'd like to mention relative to that specific thing is that our military has been underfunded over a period of time coming and going. We can talk about foreign aid later. But one of the things that we've got to do is focus not just on undersea damage to cables and that sort of thing. Why are they doing it? What are they doing? What are they preparing for by being in our infrastructure?

(50:50)
Well, that gives me pause relative to what their capability is, so we're awakening to that. Director Wray at the FBI said that they've got 200 hackers for every one that we have, that they are in here. And every 12 minutes, they're filing a suit against something that China is doing. We need to make sure the military is focused on this specific threat that you mentioned. It's one of the highest priorities I know of President Trump as we get going here.

Senator Rosen (51:14):

Well, thank you. As Ranking Member on the Cybersecurity Subcommittee of Armed Services, I agree with you there. Thank you.

Mr. Risch (51:22):

Senator Hagerty.

Senator Hagerty (51:23):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Monica, I'd like to start with you. It's been a pleasure to know you for this past decade. Your work at Treasury, I must say, was exemplary, and your foundation in foreign affairs dating all the way back to your time spent with Richard Nixon I think underscores your diplomatic prowess and your preparation for the job to come. I'd like to first speak to a point that you just raised regarding soft power, and to say this, that Joe Nye, who was the head of the Harvard Kennedy School has made that term quite popular. He helped me in my previous role as U.S. Ambassador to Japan to think about how to deploy soft power. But one thing is very obvious, and Senator Perdue mentioned this. Soft power is only effective to the extent we have hard power underlying that, that means having our assets in place. That means having the right technology and the right interoperability in place. And I know that this administration is working hard to get to that point.

(52:24)
Back to the present, though. Having spent time myself with President Trump in the presence of Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, Narendra Modi, multiple European heads of state, certainly Shinzo Abe, I can say that the role of the Chief of Protocol is tremendously important. Setting the stage for the engagements that need to happen, setting the stage for diplomatic success, is going to be absolutely vital, and I think you've got a very strong team. I think of Abby Phillips on your team who hails from Tennessee. I look forward to the fact that you're going to be called upon in an extraordinary time to set the tone and to set the environment so that critical national security and economic security issues can be taking place. I also look forward to the role that you'll play in the 250th anniversary of our nation, because I think it creates a tremendous diplomatic opportunity for us.

(53:23)
One thing I'd like to ask you is what do you see in your role ahead, if you're confirmed, as the biggest opportunity for your organization that should you be confirmed to lead it?

Ms. Monica Crowley (53:31):

Well, thank you very much for the question, Senator, and for your friendship and Chrissy's friendship as well. I appreciate both of you very much. And it's a really important question. I take the responsibility of the role of Chief of Protocol extremely seriously. Big responsibilities as you point out, Senator, that go along with setting the stage for a new gold standard for robust, successful, effective diplomacy for this President, for his diplomatic vision, and for his diplomatic and policy agenda. So if confirmed, I look forward to leading the team of the Office of Chief of Protocol, which is incredibly talented and dedicated, and it's made up of really dedicated political appointees as well as career civil servants. I look forward to leading that team together, making sure that they all work in harmony for our shared mission, our shared goals, and to ensure excellence in every detail, to create the proper environment so that the President, the Vice President, the Secretary of State, and other high ranking officials can carry out their diplomatic duties in service of the United States and the American people.

Senator Hagerty (54:42):

Well, I know that the President has the highest expectations and you'll rise to the occasion to meet those.

Ms. Monica Crowley (54:46):

Thank you.

Senator Hagerty (54:47):

Thank you very much.

(54:48)
David, I'd like to turn to you. Congratulations again on your nomination. One of the things I wanted to point out is when I served as U.S. Ambassador to Japan, one of my top priorities was taking care of my staff and their families. And one of the things that I've mentioned this in this committee before, one of the things that's most disturbing about the treatment of our diplomats in China, has been the way they've been treated. It was earlier discussed, the fact that they're not allowed to travel freely. If I think about what happened during COVID, they put some of our staff in containers, held them in isolation in moldy hotel rooms. They took stool samples from them, blood tests for them. I just think it's totally egregious what took place. And in my view, it's just wholly unacceptable. I know that you'll do everything that you can to protect U.S. diplomats and their families in China.

(55:37)
I'm just going to ask you this question very quickly. If you receive reports of harassment or abuse, will you immediately report those not only to the Trump administration, but to this Committee, so that we can act upon it?

The Honorable David Perdue (55:48):

Absolutely. In my conversation with the Ranking Member, this came up as well, and I made that similar commitment then.

Senator Hagerty (55:53):

Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to turn to China and their participation with Iran in purchasing Iranian oil. In recent years, over 90% of Iranian oil exports were purchased by China. As I've discussed many times in this Committee, the Biden administration's non-enforcement of sanctions against Iran has provided that regime with over $100 billion that they have used, therefore, to go out into the Middle East and foment terror and insecurity. President Trump intends to actually enforce sanctions against Iran, and last month his administration announced sanctions against the Chinese teapot oil refinery. That refinery was buying and refining hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of Iranian crude oil, and it's the first time that the United States has actually sanctioned a Chinese oil refinery.

(56:37)
Some of this oil was even imported to China by ships linked to the Iranian-backed Houthi regime, the same terrorists that are attacking U.S. personnel, commercial vessels, and certainly our ally, Israel. It's yet another example of how Biden's non-enforcement of sanctions funded the very problems that we're spending billions to address right now. So if confirmed, David, do you commit to conveying to the Chinese government in the strongest possible terms that the United States will not tolerate Chinese activities that finance Iran and its terrorist proxy groups, especially those terrorist groups that attack the United States and its allies?

The Honorable David Perdue (57:10):

Of course. Along with protecting American personnel in China, this will be one of my top five priorities, Senator. Let me say one more thing about this. This is a broad topic. Number one, our sanctions are beginning to not work the Chinese-Russian trade right now. The sanctions aren't working there on dual-use equipment, primarily because they're denoting those transactions, as you know, in rubles and in Renminbi. Also, this is a very perverse conversation that you bring up here. I'll be very brief. The consumption of China goods takes money to China. 73% of their oil consumption is imported. They buy it primarily from Russia and Iran. Those dollars then go to Russia and Iran, and we know how that money ends up: in Ukraine and in Hamas, Hezbollah, and Houthis' war chest. So we have got to rebalance the world. This goes back to the trade conversation that President Trump is on right now. It's all a big geopolitical strategy that ties in exactly to what you're talking about. Thank you.

Senator Hagerty (58:11):

Okay. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman, and also thank you, Senator Scott, for letting me go out of order.

Mr. Risch (58:16):

Thank you, Senator Hagerty. We now have Senator Coons.

Senator Coons (58:21):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Great to see you again, Senator, and a former colleague, I just want to thank Bonnie and your family for supporting you in your service. And forgive me, I'm going to keep this tight and just question you for five minutes. My apologies. Congratulations on your nomination, Dr. Crowley. As you know, I was also in a manufacturing business for many years and had the experience of trying to deal with China and Chinese IP theft, forced technology transfers. I assume that your awareness of and grounding in this will make it a top priority for you to work to protect American innovation and work across the government and the interagency to advocate that. Is that correct?

The Honorable David Perdue (59:01):

Absolutely, Senator. I have the scars to talk about in that area, and it will be one of my top priorities.

Senator Coons (59:07):

Thank you. You have been nominated for one of the most important ambassadorships. I hope you've consulted with Nick Burns, who I think served well in the post.

The Honorable David Perdue (59:16):

Could you repeat that, Senator? I'm sorry.

Senator Coons (59:17):

I hope you'll have an opportunity to consult with Ambassador Nick Burns, who served-

The Honorable David Perdue (59:20):

Oh, absolutely.

Senator Coons (59:21):

… previously.

The Honorable David Perdue (59:23):

We actually have that committed at this point.

Senator Coons (59:27):

Your words, "We are in the middle of a fight to ensure that the free world stays free." And I'm increasingly alarmed by the close cooperation between China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Do you share that concern?

The Honorable David Perdue (59:40):

Absolutely, Senator.

Senator Coons (59:41):

When North Korea deployed thousands and thousands of troops and put them into the meat grinder of Russia's illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine, they did so in order to gain access to the knowledge of the latest technologies on the battlefield and to gain benefit for North Korea. One of my core concerns is that

Senator Coons (01:00:00):

… These theaters are interconnected, that our challenge with China requires allies, resources and attention. It's why I moved to partnering with Senator McConnell on the defense subcommittee on approps, but our interconnected world means that when North Korean troops are serving on the front lines in the war of aggression against Ukraine and Iranian sanctions aren't fully biting because China's offering a secondary off-take market, we have to deal with this. Some of my colleagues have claimed that it was the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan that precipitated Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I could debate some of that, but let me just agree that the world is interconnected and that when our credibility is harmed, dictators are emboldened and aggression is more likely. So if Ukraine is forced to surrender, if Russia emerges victorious and our leadership is questioned in the world by our allies and those we have stood alongside, I think by the same logic, Xi will inevitably be emboldened to believe that he can take on his vision to reacquire Taiwan, the Philippines, the South China Sea, to be more aggressive regionally. Would you agree with that?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:01:18):

Well, Senator, that's a complex question. It's a great question. I think right now withdrawal is not an option for the United States. I don't think President Trump is attempting to do that. I think by reaching and stepping forward in the area of trade addresses some of the questions that you bring up there. What we've also got to do though, and you mentioned this and the ranking member actually wrote a couple of papers on it I think either last year or earlier this year, and that is that NATO is another major player with regard to China that we need to engage with in a way that we maybe haven't done that in the past.

Senator Coons (01:01:47):

Let me reframe my question then if I might given I have a minute and a half.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:01:50):

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Senator Coons (01:01:51):

Does it strengthen us in our work to deal with China in the South China Sea, to deal with China in IP theft, to deal with China as our pacing threat if we strengthen NATO, strengthen our alliances and partnerships in the Global South, or if we weaken them and withdraw from them, which makes us stronger?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:02:10):

Well, obviously the stronger the relationships. One of the five things I mentioned earlier in answering another question is that our allies, we have to align and make sure they understand the threat and develop a cohesive strategy. I think that the Quad, I think ASEAN, even though we're not a member, is very important. NATO is very important. AUKUS is also important. So I agree, Senator, that that's a major priority for us.

Senator Coons (01:02:33):

I traveled with Senator Merkley to India and Nepal many years ago now, and I was struck at how much the Nepalese were grateful for our response during a devastating earthquake. I am heartsick now as I watched our national news of the response to the Myanmar earthquake, and it was PRC humanitarian teams who were leading the response, not Americans. I will simply say that the … I thought near destruction of USAID and their ability to project our response to humanitarian crises is an unforced error, is kneecapping us at the wrong moment. In my view, one of our greatest strengths as a nation has been demonstrating whether it's in the Pacific Island nations, in Cambodia, in Nepal, in Africa, in South America, that we are able to respond in an effective and timely way to humanitarian moments of need. Do you see that as something that we should restore our continued ability to lead the world in humanitarian response?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:03:37):

Mr. Senator, I've missed serving with you. You've taken me out of time, so I'm going to give you a very brief answer. Of course, that's one of the strategies I've mentioned before, but I think again, this is an awakening that America has got to come to. This is our Sputnik moment in my opinion, and we're late coming to it in so many areas, but let me respond, Mr. Chairman, if I'll indulge just a second, I won't go over because I know we're out of the Senator's time. I want to remind all of us though USAID has been brought up several times today. Listen, I've lived out there. I've gone to the places. I've went to Haiti, I've been in these places. I know you have and Senator Merkley has and others. Obviously it's important that we don't withdraw from that responsibility. However, let me remind us all that every dime we spend in USAID, every dime is borrowed by definition of the way we have our budget set up.

(01:04:31)
We spend $7 trillion, we raise 5 [inaudible 01:04:34], we're short 2. Of the 7 trillion we spend, only 2 trillion is discretionary. That means that Social Security, Medicare and interest on the debt are [inaudible 01:04:44]. We have to spend that. That eats up every dime that we bring in as revenue. So what we have to do is look at the allocation of every dime that we spend and that's what President Trump is doing. The second point, I'll end here and that is that every dime we spend in USAID and the military and everything else has got to be consistent with our foreign policy.

Mr. Chairman (01:05:03):

Well said, sir.

Senator Coons (01:05:04):

Thank you for your testimony and thank you to Senator Merkley for your graciousness. I apologize for going over.

Mr. Chairman (01:05:09):

Well said Senator Scott.

Rick Scott (01:05:11):

Thank you Chairman. Well, first off, congratulations to both of you. I think you're both going to do a great job. Congratulations on all the success you've had and this is a big opportunity for both of you. So congratulations. Dr. Crowley, we hear bad actors, we hear the CCP attacking [inaudible 01:05:27] gang members of the United States, American citizens, we hear about Erdoğan's thugs beating up anti-Erdoğan protesters in the United States. So in this role as Chief of Protocol, what can you do if anything about that?

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:05:42):

Well, thank you very much for the question and for your longstanding friendship as well, Senator. Appreciate it. The Office of Chief of Protocol does not oversee policy. It executes what the President's vision is in terms of diplomatic relationships, diplomatic partnerships. So that would not be in my portfolio, but if confirmed, I do look forward to following the direction of the President and the Secretary of State on all policy matters.

Rick Scott (01:06:09):

Thank you.

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:06:09):

Thank you.

Rick Scott (01:06:10):

Senator Perdue. Jimmy Lai is unjustly on trial and in jail because of the Communist Party in China. As an ambassador to China, what do you think you can do to put pressure on the regime to release this hero of democracy and human rights?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:06:25):

Well, I appreciated seeing the picture in your office that day. I lived in Hong Kong as you know, and when that was happening, I made a trip to Hong Kong and actually we met with some of these people there and here. And what we have to do is stand up for human rights in a way that is a little bit different. China has now become very aggressive. After Hong Kong, all bets are off relative to what they are trying to do, and now it's becoming visible on a much larger scale with the United Nations, the World Health Organization, the WTO and so forth about where they're trying to bring malign influence to change the order to a degree in their favor. So what I'm going to do if confirmed as ambassador will echo the message from the administration and from the Congress about how important this is to us.

Rick Scott (01:07:14):

Senator, the Communist party sends fentanyl into the United States, killed 78,000 people last year. They treat the Uyghurs horribly, they don't follow any trade rules, they never comply with the WTO. It is a despicable government. They clearly want to destroy our way of life and for the people that they have killed, they clearly have destroyed their way of life and their families. So would you recommend that any American citizen buy any Chinese products or have any Chinese apps on their phone or do any business with anything that's related to communist China?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:07:58):

Well, I think the realization that our support of China over the last 30 years or more, going back to Reagan actually in terms of early investment in developing their economy, giving them access into most favored nation status when they didn't comply, they didn't qualify. Also, the violations in the World Trade Organization we've turned a blind eye to. Those days are over, I believe, and I think we've got to stand up not just for our own protection, but for the protection of these systems that have served us well since Bretton Woods in 1944 that established the current world order. Going back to Senator Daines's recent trip over there, the only topic that I could see, the major topic that they talked about was fentanyl. It's trips like that that make a difference, not trying to do trade but trying to influence changes in their behavior, Senator.

Rick Scott (01:08:44):

You think Xi's going to change?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:08:46):

Senator, the issue is what is beneficial to their strategy? What do they want? And if you read what they've been writing over the last 25 years, I don't think he's going to change. The question is what is his objective and what is he going to be capable of doing? Look, they have a problem. They can't feed their own population. 30% of the food that is consumed in China is imported. I just said 73% of the oil is imported. They have a real problem right now with unemployment of people under 25. It's over 16% from what I read. If you look at the economy, focusing on state-owned enterprise is a real problem. The realization of U.S. capital now that has been going to China for the last 40 years and not getting the return that we should have gotten, but gave up technology and a lot of other things that went along with it.

Rick Scott (01:09:30):

If we stop-

The Honorable David Perdue (01:09:31):

That realization is going to really change.

Rick Scott (01:09:33):

If we stop buying their products, if we stop allowing them access to our market without complying with SEC rules, which we are, we have a law that our SEC is not enforcing, but if the American public would show up and say this is wrong, what would happen to the Chinese economy and what would they have to do then?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:09:52):

You bring up a great point. If you believe that this is a new kind of war, it's not Cold War, it's not a kinetic war, it's a different war and they described it to us in the book called Unrestricted Warfare back in 1999 and they're executing against that. I wrote an article about it a year ago. If you look at that, the way forward is for the United States to become informed about that and to stand up to the challenge. That means that sometimes we'll have to sacrifice Senator because what we've been seduced by are the cheap prices that we gave into over the last 30 years coming out of China, that were in some cases, in many cases unfair because they were subsidized by the state.

Rick Scott (01:10:27):

But if we stop buying their stuff, what will happen?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:10:30):

Well, if foreign capital from the U.S. stops going into China, they have a real problem.

Rick Scott (01:10:35):

If we stop buying their product, what will happen? The American public says enough's enough. What will happen to their economy?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:10:41):

It'll collapse.

Rick Scott (01:10:42):

Right. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman (01:10:46):

Thank you. Senator Daines.

Senator Daines (01:10:48):

Dr. Crowley, congratulations on your nominations. Good to have you here today. David, as I'm sitting here, I'm struck by thinking 30 years ago as I'm looking at you and Bonnie. For all I know, we could have been on the Star Ferry together, crossing the harbor there in Hong Kong when we had two little ones that were born in Hong Kong going from Guangzhou into Hong Kong for sometimes some R&R. And little did we know that we'd be sitting here today some 30 years later talking about your nomination to be the United States Ambassador to China. What a journey it's been, and I can't think of a better nominee, somebody who understands China, somebody who has been a successful businessman, a United States senator, a member of this foreign relations committee and who has a passion for representing America proudly in China. And importantly has the great respect that you do of President Trump and your respect of the President, that mutual strong relationship that you have that's been based on years of working together. There's just not a better guy to be going to Beijing for the United States than David Perdue.

(01:11:56)
We've discussed the trafficking of fentanyl. Senator Scott brought that up briefly. Now the precursors that China is sending into Mexico, Canada, and the United States are a threat to our national security. Our leading cause of death for 18 to 45 year olds in the United States is fentanyl poisoning. It's a public health emergency. We have a drug war going on right now in the United States with fentanyl. China sadly remains the single largest provider of these deadly chemicals, we call them precursors, that the cartels then manufacture and bring across the southern border into our communities. President Trump has made this a priority to stem, to stop this poisonous tide. The Senate is eager to help. David, how can you, if confirmed as United States Ambassador to China, work with both the American and the Chinese governments to stem the flow of deadly fentanyl into my state of Montana, into your home state of Georgia and other communities across America?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:13:08):

Well, Senator, I wish I had known you 30 years ago when we were both over there. I want to applaud what you've just done and what you've continued to do since you've been in not only the Senate but in the House as well, and that is interface with your friends and colleagues and people in China, standing up to them and telling them what's important to us. Your representation of U.S. interests has been the most powerful thing I've seen outside of presidential actions in my tenure in the last 10 years. I want to thank you for that. I know you just made a recent trip on this very topic.

(01:13:40)
Look, this fentanyl poisoning kills more Americans in 1 year, than died in Vietnam over 20 years. So President Trump has made a top priority of stopping this flow of this deadly drug into the United States. It's a multifaceted thing. It starts with the precursors in China, it goes to Canada and Mexico where this is now being transferred into the United States. As ambassador, I will echo your priority as well as the President's priority, that this is one of our top priorities. The Chinese, as you know, respect strength. They don't like a lot of complaining unless they see action, and right now President Trump put two tariffs on this one issue. That's action and I believe we'll see some response to that in the near future, hopefully.

Senator Daines (01:14:24):

Thank you. I want to shift gears and talk about the level of playing field that we need for American companies who are doing business in China. We have American companies, last year did about $500 billion worth of business in China. Chinese companies in the United States did about $75 billion, so I know we focus a lot on the $300 billion trade deficit, but we right now have about a 400 billion revenue surplus because American companies are in there doing business selling to the Chinese consumer. And it's important that they keep winning over there because those dollars then flow down to R&D to build next generation, whether it's aircraft at Boeing and so forth.

(01:15:07)
Another important topic for me personally for Montana is making sure we have access for agricultural products. It's now a $1.6 billion beef market for the United States producers. It's the second-largest beef market in the world is China, and we are now facing some steep headwinds because the Chinese government did not renew export licenses to 394 basically [inaudible 01:15:36] in the United States, and this is going to affect about 90 to 95% of our beef exports to China, this huge market. David, as ambassador, how would you work to make American companies as well as our farmers and our ranchers more competitive in that significant and huge 1.4 billion consumer Chinese market?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:15:58):

Well, we already recognize that they import 30% of their food. The second thing is that being from Georgia, ag is a little over half of our total GDP, and I know in Montana it's very important. I want to applaud you again for the work that you did back in the first administration of Donald Trump in getting that one trade deal done and the first piece about ag. It wouldn't happen without your personal leadership. As ambassador, I will try to, and I said it in my opening remarks, increase the dialogue pace on these very important issues both to us and to China. Look, we want reciprocal trade, fair and open reciprocal trade. That's what President Trump is trying to do, and ag is one of the major pieces of ammunition we have to export into China.

Senator Daines (01:16:43):

Thank you, David. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman (01:16:47):

Thank you Senator Daines.

Senator Daines (01:16:49):

Senator Merkley.

Jeff Merkley (01:16:51):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and welcome Senator Perdue, welcome Dr. Crowley. I really wanted to focus on two themes regarding China and one of those themes to me is symbolized by the work that Marco Rubio and I did here. We both served on the China Commission, we held a lot of hearings about human rights, we teamed up to pass the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act and legislation related to Hong Kong, related to Tibet, really highlighting the massive abuses of human rights in China. And that Forced Labor Prevention Act, that has been the most effective measure in the world to actually say articles produced in China with slave labor cannot come into a domestic market. We're hoping Canada and Mexico and Europe follow our lead. Do you support that act? Thank you.

(01:17:42)
There's another thread though in potential foreign policy with China that I think is better symbolized by Elon Musk. He built a factory in Xinjiang province, which is … China wanted that there to basically rebut the concerns about slave labor, Xinjiang. In exchange, they give him a massive amount of Chinese loans to help build that factory, is now Tesla's largest factory in the world. Those products could not even be imported to the U.S. under the Forced Labor Prevention Act. In addition, he has said things about China, like China is more responsive to the happiness of people than in the U.S. That bothers me. He has said, "I'm kind of pro-China" on another occasion. The Trump administration and the Biden administration both said, what's going on in Xinjiang is genocide. It's horrific. I'm very concerned about that.

(01:18:38)
I want for our representation, which you'll soon be carrying forward to be shining a light on the abuses in China, the suppression, the transnational repression against the Chinese diaspora around the world. It puts a huge contrast where we stand in terms of freedom for people in the world and where China stands in terms of repression of freedom in the world. Which theme? The theme symbolized by Marco Rubio in putting a spotlight on the repression and human rights abuses and the genocide or the Elon Musk theme where he wants our government to help him do more and more business in China? Which theme are you going to represent?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:19:20):

Well, first I enjoyed our conversation, Senator, and this topic came up in there and I really appreciate your heart for this. I've watched it for 10 years and I respect that. One of my top responsibilities as the spokesperson for the people of America and this administration is to make sure they understand how deeply we feel about the atrocities. There's no other word for it, so I agree with you that we cannot turn a blind eye, not just in Xinjiang, but I mean in everywhere we see it. If you look at the slave labor, it's one of the things they use to basically cheat the WTO system that wanted to have equal and fair trade around the world. My view right now, if America doesn't stand up for that, no one else will.

Jeff Merkley (01:20:02):

Well, I appreciate your response. I hope when the pressure comes from very powerful American entrepreneurs that says, "We want you to help them do more business in China" rather than pointing out the human rights concerns that you'll point out those human rights concerns, and it sounds like that's where your heart is and I appreciate that.

(01:20:22)
I want to turn to the U.S. Agency for Global Media, Voice of America that was shut down and when it was shut down, China entities said, "Hey, this is great." They celebrated. They really resented Voice of America putting a spotlight on the genocide in Xinjiang. They really resented spotlighting Chinese aggression in the South China Sea. They really regretted commentaries about the Chinese economy and some of the commentary that showed the overcapacity of factories in certain sectors and certainly in the housing sector. Meanwhile though, I'm very confused because Trump and Musk, President Trump and whatever position Musk holds, advisor Musk, they accused Voice of America of promoting anti-American propaganda. I don't get that. I've never seen evidence of anything but promoting American values and putting on a spotlight on issues including what China is doing to its own people. What am I missing?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:21:22):

Well, Senator, it's a big question relative to how do we defend against their propaganda and then how do we get the free world's message out? As I said earlier, I think what we've been missing is we've been doing this too much unilaterally. And I think if we engage our allies in a way that we maybe haven't done in the past, we can develop a unified approach. Going back to the funding of that, I think once we see the investment strategy of those funds is consistent with foreign policy, this strategy will be developed in my opinion. As a voice, as ambassador of the United States in China, I will echo this dramatically over there. It's one of our top priorities and this is something that we will not give up on.

Jeff Merkley (01:22:03):

Well, I do appreciate that because I feel like having Voice of America and Radio Free Asia helping to counter the disinformation and propaganda that comes out of the Chinese government is really an important part of truth-telling in the world. The Chinese don't like it because they don't want truth-telling in the world. I hope you'll be a champion for truth-telling.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:22:22):

Thank you, sir.

Jeff Merkley (01:22:23):

Thank you.

Mike Lee (01:22:27):

Really appreciate both of you being here and your willingness to serve. I've known both of you for most of the time I've been at the United States Senate and am a huge fan of both and consider you both not only friends but people I deeply admire on a professional level and on a personal level. Senator Perdue, we'll start with you. It's going to be contrary to my instinct to call you anything other than by your first names, but I'd like to keep it formal in the hearings to show my great respect for those who are willing to serve. So we'll start with you, Senator Perdue. Let's talk about the Panama Canal for a second. Last month, CK Hutchison, this Hong Kong-based company managing ports at both ends of the Panama Canal announced its intent to sell its port facilities at both ends to a U.S-led consortium, and that's where things got tricky. China has now pumped the brakes on that, stepping in and claiming that this would mess with antitrust concerns and implicate antitrust laws in China.

(01:23:40)
Now, I don't profess to be an expert in Chinese antitrust law, but I can say with a fair degree of confidence that they're using a very different definition of antitrust law, of competition policy than we would ever dream of in the United States. It appears to me that this is just an aggressive act on the part of the Chinese Communist Party, and I suppose it's understandable why they would want that. Because after all, China views its canal operations, understandably, I suppose, to be a source of geopolitical leverage. This of course, is a problem because this fairly directly implicates U.S. treaty arrangements made decades ago to make sure that that sort of thing didn't happen. So my question to you, Senator Perdue, is how will you frame the importance of the Panama Canal, the importance to the United States of the Panama Canal in your interactions in Beijing?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:24:48):

Thank you for that question. That's a very thoughtful question and it's a deep one because this is a perfect example of the difference between a democratically-led international system like we have now in the world order, established in Bretton Woods in 1944, like I said, compared to an authoritarian-influenced world order. That's what China's trying to build, where the government … In fact, the government over there said that the world economy should be state-controlled and that would mean the death of free market capitalism. Well, the Panama Canal is a strategic issue for the United States. It was when we built it, when over 50,000 people died there building it and one of our presidents gave it away, and there is some question about the legality of that frankly. You're the legal expert. I'd love to engage you on that at some point, but what troubles me are the two ports there.

(01:25:38)
Where were we when those two ports were purchased by CK Hutchinson to start with? CK Hutchinson is Hong Kong firm. I know it very well, and they have investment interest from the CCP, from China, and they're directly in control. So what has happened, exactly what you said, the China government said, "Oh no, we don't like that. You're not going to make that transaction." Well, in our world, in a free market enterprise, they would of course have that opportunity. So this is a major priority for President Trump. He has said it in the campaign, he said it since he got elected, and this is one that, as I adopt to my new responsibility in China as ambassador will echo how important that is for us.

Mike Lee (01:26:18):

Thank you. No, I appreciate your insight on that and it shows that you've thought it through and is emblematic if you are great capacity to convey things concisely, clearly and also diplomatically at the same time. Speaking of which, Dr. Crowley somebody who will be key to everything that the State Department does has within your portfolio, something that will be enhanced by your presence there, and I'm so grateful for your willingness to serve there. Let's talk about the 2024 Olympics for a moment. If you watch the opening ceremonies of the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris, you may remember that at least from the viewpoint of many people, including myself, it was nothing short … The opening games, opening ceremony there was nothing short of a blatantly pro-left wing, anti-family presentation that happened to contain a number of deliberate insults to the Christian faith, and I suspect people of many other faiths.

(01:27:28)
At the time it happened, I sent a letter to the second gentleman who was himself set to lead the U.S. presidential delegation to the closing ceremonies, urging him to convey America's deep disappointment with their decision to use the opening ceremonies as an opportunity for mockery of faith. I never received a response. Instead, the Biden administration stood idly by sending the delegation, staying silent as this global forum for diplomacy and mutual respect was tarnished, at least tarnished in the eyes of many Americans, myself included. As we prepare then to host the Olympics again, how do you intend to make sure that the 2028 games in Los Angeles will be a celebration of national excellence and merit that can serve as a forum for diplomacy, amity, and so forth, and not be co-opted as a platform for DEI progressive activism or anti-Christian rhetoric?

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:28:36):

Well, thank you very much for the question and for your kind word Senator and your longstanding friendship as well. Grateful to you. At the President's direction if confirmed, I will take on additional responsibilities and serve as an administration representative to major events with big international participation like America's 250th birthday, like the FIFA World Cup, which is coming to the United States next year and the 2028 Olympic Games in Los Angeles. I look forward if confirmed to drawing on my vast broadcast and public affairs experience to speak to the American people as well as the global public about America's greatness and America's leadership.

(01:29:19)
To your particular point, it's my understanding that the Olympic Games whenever they occur, are overseen by the International Olympic Committee, and in Los Angeles they'll also work in conjunction with the 2028 Los Angeles Olympic Committee as well. And Senator, I pledge to you if confirmed, I will be deeply involved in ensuring that the Olympic Games go off without a hitch, that the Olympic Committee in the United States is on message to the extent that we can have some influence there, and I look forward to showcasing the American spirit as well as the United States as a premier destination for international sporting events.

Mike Lee (00:00):

Mike Lee (01:30:00):

Excellent, thank you. I see my time's expired, and I turn the floor over to Senator Van Hollen.

Senator Van Hollen (01:30:08):

Thank you, senator, and congratulations to both of you. Senator, it's good to see you again, and I enjoyed the conversation in my office. I'm just going to cover a couple topics here today. You mentioned in response to a question that it was important to have our friends and allies with us in a unified stance with respect to our policy in China. I fully agree.

(01:30:33)
One of the things we hear from our allies in East Asia, Japan, South Korea, friends like Taiwan, is that what happens in Ukraine matters to what happens with respect to Taiwan. In other words, that President Xi has one eye on what's happening in Ukraine and another with respect to Taiwan in terms of US resolve and the credibility of our allies. Do you agree with that simple statement?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:31:02):

Well, I think that's a complex comparison, and I'm not sure of what President Xi is thinking or not thinking except what he says. He has said over and over the last 10 years that the reunification is very important to the PRC and the CCP. Our role in that is simply that we're going to continue to honor the One China policy as stated in the Taiwan Relations Act, also backed up by the Three Communiques and the Six Assurances. So the situation is a little more complex than just making a binary comparison between, I think, Ukraine and Taiwan.

Senator Van Hollen (01:31:37):

Well, certainly there are differences between Taiwan and Ukraine. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. But I was suggesting what our allies tell us. You just said it was important to be united with our allies. I can just tell you what our allies have been telling us repeatedly is that what happens in Ukraine impacts and influences the way Xi thinks about Taiwan and the situation there.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:32:04):

Right.

Senator Van Hollen (01:32:05):

I think all of us … Not all of us, but on a bipartisan basis, many of us have been deeply concerned with the way President Trump threw Ukraine under the bus and President Zelensky under the bus and called Ukraine the aggressor. At the same time, we know that China has been supporting Russia. Of course, President Xi famously said that the bonds of friendship between China and Russia know no boundaries.

(01:32:36)
The previous administration made clear that if China was to supply military assistance to Russia, that that would result in some kind of sanctions or punitive response from the United States. Do you agree that we should make it clear to China that that kind of assistance would be unacceptable from our point of view?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:33:00):

The situation with regard to Ukraine is not … I wouldn't characterize it as throwing them under the bus, senator. I would just personally disagree with that. I think over 300-plus-

Senator Van Hollen (01:33:12):

You know how this works. I get that. If you could just answer the question I asked you.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:33:14):

I do. I do.

Senator Van Hollen (01:33:18):

Do you agree that the previous administration's policy that it would trigger sanctions from the United States if China were to provide offensive or to buy military equipment to Russia? You agree or disagree?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:33:30):

I agree, and we already have sanctions on them about cross-border trade right now between China and Russia on dual use. We know that 80% of what Russia has available to in dual use comes from China, and we know a lot of that is ending up in the Ukraine. So, yes, I fully support that. I think President Trump's strategy does the same.

Senator Van Hollen (01:33:49):

Okay. So I do want to follow up on some of the questions Senator Merkley raised, because I think it's indisputable that Elon Musk has an enormous amount of influence in this administration. He's single-handedly gone about firing lots of federal employees. He said he was going to put AID through the wood chipper. He actually said it was a criminal enterprise.

(01:34:14)
I think others have pointed out, including Senator Shaheen, that on a bipartisan basis we thought that AID has been an important part of US soft power. We've already seen instances where AID's retreated in the last couple months that China has worked to fill the void.

(01:34:34)
I do want to just read a statement by Vivek Ramaswamy, who was originally, of course, Musk's partner in the DOGE effort before he left it. This is what he said in 2023. "Tesla is increasingly beholden to China." Then on his podcast, he said, and I quote, "I have no reason to think Elon won't jump like a circus monkey when Xi Jinping calls in the hour of need." He also referred to Musk as a Chinese puppet.

(01:35:10)
So do you agree? Will you agree that we should have concerns that somebody with the amount of influence that Elon Musk has in this administration is getting briefings? The Defense Department, fortunately, they called off apparently the war plan on Taiwan. But doesn't it concern you that somebody like that might have an inordinate amount of influence with respect to our policies?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:35:34):

Well, first of all, I'm not going to discredit the individual, but that comment is coming from an individual that was fired basically by the DOGE for not doing his job. So my view is that what they're doing is absolutely necessary. I think we all-

Senator Van Hollen (01:35:48):

Are you [inaudible 01:35:49] Vivek Ramaswamy being fired?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:35:49):

Yes.

Senator Van Hollen (01:35:49):

Okay. Just want to-

The Honorable David Perdue (01:35:50):

I think that what they're trying to do, I think we all would agree to. I mean we've got to find a way to get better use of the money we spend in the federal government. When it relates to the breadth of responsibility of what DOGE is doing, the president has said publicly … This is 132 days, they're well into that now. I think they had a press conference this week about the results so far.

(01:36:13)
Look, when you go in … I've done this several times in the corporate world. When you go in and do this kind of effort, there's going to be some areas that you have to come back and clean up. Even Elon Musk said that this week as a matter of fact. So I agree with you that it's a careful process. We need to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, at the same time, again, I'll relate my comment earlier about the debt funding of everything we're doing here.

(01:36:37)
By the way, the overhead of USAID … Let me say this one more time. The overhead of USAID is redundant in so many cases. I think that CARE does a great job around the world. It's about a billion-dollar benefit. We fund about a third of that. A friend of mine runs it. But they only have about a 10% overhead. So if you add USAID overhead on top of what CARE is doing, you end up with an unacceptable level of overhead.

Senator Van Hollen (01:37:02):

I'll end with this. With respect, this committee, the chairman of this committee, has not held a hearing so that we could ask these very questions. Senator Shaheen has had two rump hearings with AID officials, which tell a very different story than is being portrayed by Elon Musk and company who, again, called it a criminal enterprise, which, as I've said, makes every member of this committee a co-conspirator in a criminal enterprise [inaudible 01:37:26].

The Honorable David Perdue (01:37:26):

Well, I don't issue that kind of proclamation, senator. I don't want to be associated with that.

Senator Van Hollen (01:37:29):

Well-

The Honorable David Perdue (01:37:29):

But what I just said I'll stand by in terms of the overhead.

Senator Van Hollen (01:37:32):

But he's the one that did that at AID and that is what he said, and he said he wanted to put it through the wood chipper, not reform. So we should be very clear about what they're doing, not what they want us to think they're doing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Risch (01:37:43):

Thank you, Senator Van. Do you have some more questions, senator?

Senator Shaheen (01:37:49):

I do.

Mr. Risch (01:37:49):

Please.

Senator Shaheen (01:37:50):

Thank you. I have a couple more questions for you, Senator Perdue. As several people have referenced, we're witnessing increasingly aggressive behavior from the PRC around the Taiwan Strait. As recently as this week, PRC warships are conducting joint military exercises, which raises the risk of miscalculation. In fact, we've heard at a SASC hearing about some of the concerns around what's happening there. So how can we effectively signal our resolve and deter Chinese aggression toward Taiwan?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:38:28):

Senator, that's a great question. It's one that I've had personal conversation with President Trump about. I think we have to make sure they are very clear about what our commitment is behind the Taiwan Relations Act, the Three Joint Communiques that we made with China, and the Six Assurances that go back to Reagan. There cannot be a misunderstanding about what is important to us, and what's important to the United States is a peaceful resolution of this situation in a cross-strait relationship.

(01:38:54)
I'm afraid in times past, comments have been made that maybe have questioned that and confused the issue in the minds of Xi Jinping and other leaders in China. I think what President Trump is trying to do right now, by refocusing and building our military again, rebalancing this world trade, is sending a message to basically that, hey, this is an important issue to the United States.

Senator Shaheen (01:39:17):

So the PRC continues to pursue its Belt and Road Initiative in Europe, as well as throughout Latin America and Africa and Asia, but it threatens to derail the Euro-Atlantic integration of countries that are not yet in NATO or in the EU, projects like the highway to nowhere in Montenegro, which indebted Montenegro to China with an amount equivalent to one-third of the annual country's budget showcase how the PRC takes advantage of the West's slow walking of the accession processes. Those are conversations that I've had with members of the EU about the challenges that not expediting and thinking about how to move some of those countries in the Western Balkans into the EU create problems.

(01:40:09)
But given the terminations of our foreign assistance programs, many of these countries have nowhere else to go, but China. I can remember talking to the former prime minister of Greece about the port in Greece, and he said … We were complaining about the fact that the Chinese were taking over that port, and he said, "I came to the United States looking for help. You couldn't help me. I went to Europe looking for help. They wouldn't help me. The Chinese were the only ones who provided money." So what are the tools that we can use to convince those countries that we're a better partner than the PRC and that we're willing to step up and help them?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:40:53):

Well, we've got to engage with them. I mean we're beginning to do that when we talk about this trade rebalancing. But let me comment on what you bring up, and that is we have to educate these countries. I'm concerned about Africa and South America greatly with regard to what China's been doing with the ports, with these proprietary loans, and so forth. We've seen what they did in Cambodia, in Sri Lanka, and in Karachi, Pakistan, where … They're already in Djibouti. These people go in, though, the Chinese. They don't hire local labor. They bring Chinese labor, some slave labor. In the local, there's a-

Senator Shaheen (01:41:24):

Right. I agree with you-

The Honorable David Perdue (01:41:26):

There's a growing-

Senator Shaheen (01:41:26):

… on the problems that China's presenting.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:41:28):

I'm trying to get to that.

Senator Shaheen (01:41:30):

What I want to know is what our alternative to that is going to be.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:41:32):

Well, the alternative is not just US money. I was going to come to that. The alternative is … The parties that are not being discussed here are the other democratic countries in the world. Where's the EU in this? We're talking about what we're doing, $68 billion out of taxpayer money. How much is coming out of the EU and other democratic countries?

(01:41:50)
That's what I said in my opening remarks is that we have to face up to the reality that this is a coalescing need that we have in the democratic free world to stand up to these types of challenges. The Belt and Road Initiative, I believe China's gotten ahead of their skis a little bit. There are countries like Pakistan that might be ruing the day they actually did that deal on that road, and I know some of the African countries are.

(01:42:10)
So what we need to do is educate the negatives that are being realized by this overintrusive investment that China's doing. The people in these countries, it's a propaganda use. I'm sorry, one more comment.

(01:42:23)
If you go to places like Turkey, we know what … China did not shut down international traffic, even though they had shut down domestic traffic travel on airlines. And so, we know that some of that infection came out of China and went into Italy and Turkey and places like that. Well, you go to Turkey shortly after that in '21 and you see billboards explaining to people how China saved the world by issuing PPE to the rest of the world.

(01:42:51)
So it's these types of examples that we need to have a platform. It goes back to your conversation about giving up on the platforms that have existed. That doesn't mean that we don't need a platform. It just means we need to have one we all agree will get the message out and be on strategy with regard to our foreign policy.

Senator Shaheen (01:43:07):

Well, I couldn't agree more. I fear that what we have done, however, with dismantling the Global Engagement Center, USAID, the Voice of America, our foreign assistance programs, that we are putting the United States at a disadvantage and giving China a head start, and it's one that we're already seeing the results of. So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Risch (01:43:29):

Thank you. Senator, I agree with you. When it comes to spending money, it's a lot easier for a communist country where the capital is owned by the government as opposed to the private sector, or for them to put that money out there. In addition to that, they don't have a law like we do that prohibits paying money under the table and all of these things do put us at a disadvantage.

(01:43:52)
I'm watching this particularly in the … As we've had this nuclear renaissance in the world, there's people looking for nuclear plants, and the Chinese are very active in there doing that. But we need to continue to compete. Every time you talk to these people, they will tell you, as they told you, Senator Shaheen, that they would much rather do business with us. But the problem is China will use that communist money to put out there and do the job.

(01:44:21)
So we have to continue, and we can aggressively push back, because at the end of the day, they would much rather do business with a country that has a rule of law than one that doesn't. So with that, Senator Cruz.

Senator Cruz (01:44:36):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to both of you. Congratulations on your nominations. Senator Perdue, let's start with you. I believe the Chinese Communist Party poses a global threat and that it has to be dealt with globally. I want to turn to Africa, a region where China is making considerable inroads. The Chinese Communist Party's influence across the continent of Africa is growing by the day, undermining American interest and trapping African nations into debt traps. I intend to hold a hearing on this issue in the Africa and Global Health Subcommittee, but I want to ask you now, how do you view Chinese malign influence in Africa?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:45:23):

Well, as I just said to the ranking member's question, it's one of the great threats that we've got to address, and not only that, it's South America as well, or Latin America, as you well know. By the way, I am glad to finally realize who is responsible for your eloquent capability, and I give Dr. Crowley that credit. So I'm glad to finally realize that.

(01:45:43)
So what I'm concerned about is that the malign influence relative to what looks like on the front end is a helping hand, which is really not a helping hand. As I said, they don't hire locals. They pick weak partners they can foreclose on like they did in Karachi and Colombo, and I'm greatly concerned about that. We have military personnel at risk in Africa today, as you well know, being on our services. So these things tie together.

(01:46:07)
As ambassador to China, I think my portfolio is bigger than just sitting in Beijing. I think being the US ambassador of the United States to China gives me the portfolio to have influence with other ambassadors and other leaders around the world, and I'm going to use that if confirmed.

Senator Cruz (01:46:25):

The United States is positioned to cultivate mutually beneficial relationships with our African partners, to strengthen America's strategic position on the continent, to unlock economic prosperity across the continent. Your role as ambassador to China, as you just described, will be incredibly influential and highly consequential in curbing China's influence in regions critical to US interests. The actions you take in Beijing and elsewhere will inform US policy globally on how to deal with Chinese malign influence. How do you intend to coordinate the embassy's actions with state to ensure that we're synchronized in our efforts to compete with China globally?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:47:07):

In bureaucratic Washington, senator, after what I've gone through the last four months, that is a very important question, and I will tell you that I don't have all the answers to that one yet. I've not been in this government, as you know. I was in the Senate for a while. But I'm going to use that portfolio out there to establish credibility with our host country. I think that's very important.

(01:47:27)
I will applaud the United States for maintaining as much of a nonpartisan approach to China as anybody, really, over the last 20 years. And so, my focus is going to be on building a communication platform that we can make sure they don't miscalculate and they don't underestimate the United States.

Senator Cruz (01:47:46):

As you said in your testimony, many of America's strategic supply chains are "in the hands of our adversaries". I'm especially concerned about China's control over global supply chains. We all saw this play out during the COVID-19 pandemic. It was a wake-up call to Americans realizing how much of our economy is intertwined with China's in ways that they hadn't seen before. I believe we must do everything we can to delink our economy from China, and that means working lock and step with our allies and partners to achieve that goal.

(01:48:19)
One critical area that we need to delink from China is critical minerals. They affect every single part of how our economy runs, from computers and cars that we use daily, to the defense technology and weapons systems that protect our nation. The CCP knows this, and they've spent decades securing control over global critical mineral supply chains as part of their broader civil-military fusion strategy to threaten our economic security. Tell me a little bit about how you see China's dominance over critical minerals affecting America's economic interests and national security interests.

The Honorable David Perdue (01:48:56):

We allowed it to happen, senator. We sat back as America, as Congress, and various administrations. This is not partisan. We allowed it to happen. In the early 2000, 2002, 80% of rare earth elements were processed right here in the United States. We mined our own. We've got a couple hundred years of resources to pull on.

(01:49:13)
You see what China has done. When the heat got turned up here recently, they embargoed two of those critical minerals, as you just said. It's not just rare earth elements, shipbuilding. We did 80% of the world's commercial shipbuilding just two decades ago. Today we'll drop one hull this year.

(01:49:28)
If you look at what we're doing in steel, for example, we had a renaissance a few years ago. These critical industries that China has done their civil-military fusion with, as you just described perfectly, is critical. We have been asleep at the wheel for 30 years. I give President Trump a lot of credit for stepping up and trying to communicate a very difficult strategy that may not be as easy as everybody thinks it will on the American people. There will be some pain in executing what we have to do to stand up and defend our own freedom. It's just that serious, senator.

Senator Cruz (01:50:02):

Thank you.

Mr. Risch (01:50:05):

Thank you, senator. Senator Lee, did you-

Mike Lee (01:50:09):

Yeah.

Mr. Risch (01:50:09):

Briefly?

Mike Lee (01:50:10):

Yeah. I've got two brief questions for a second round. First of all, Senator Perdue, there's a longstanding handicap that we've had to endure as it relates to China in the sense that, across the board, China appears to be moving in a direction trying to exploit international institutions. Then, across the board, China tends to be treated with kid gloves and called a developing country. What opportunity as ambassador would you see that we could address that?

The Honorable David Perdue (01:50:44):

Senator, this responsibility is the most humbling thing I've ever tried to consider. When I look at the responsibilities of an ambassador representing the United States in China, there are no topics that are off the table. But I will only do one thing and that is execute the strategy of the President of the United States. I won't create policy, I will execute against that strategy. So this topic, other topics, that will be my number one responsibility.

Mike Lee (01:51:13):

Great. Dr. Crowley, one more short question for you. The incoming chief of protocol at the State Department will be one of the most substantive in the history of the State Department, given that many international events that US will be hosting in a couple of years, and you referred to some of those, including the America250 celebration, which is much better than the original title for it, which was the Semiquincentennial. I think that's the formal name given to a [inaudible 01:51:40] anniversary.

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:51:40):

That name is still out there, senator, unfortunately.

Mike Lee (01:51:42):

I mean it's kind of fun to say, but not really. Whenever we act as host, I assume you'd agree that we ought to harness that as a soft power exercise, whether it's welcoming a foreign head of state to the Blair House or otherwise. How do you see that could be used as a force multiplier for President Trump's America First agenda?

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:52:04):

Yeah. Thank you for that question, senator. I really appreciate the importance of soft power, and I do understand that the Office of Chief of Protocol is a crown jewel in the exercise of soft power. If confirmed, I will take that responsibly very seriously.

(01:52:24)
To your question directly, we do have a number of major international events happening over the next several years, including America250, the FIFA World Cup, and the 2028 Los Angeles Olympic Games. The Office of Chief of Protocol will play a critical role in all of that. It's not just about maintaining strong diplomatic partnerships around the globe, but it's also ensuring that we create an environment and set the stage for the most robust, successful diplomacy possible for the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, and other high-ranking officials.

(01:52:59)
These particular global events that will come to the United States and host foreign dignitaries from around the world will be an extraordinary opportunity for us to showcase American greatness, American leadership, American dynamism, the American spirit, as well as the United States to be a supreme place to host these kinds of international sporting events and other major events.

(01:53:24)
So I intend, if confirmed, to use this office to showcase American greatness in every possible way, make sure that our foreign dignitaries and other guests have an incredible experience, and also to work with diplomatic security, to work with US Secret Service to make sure that all of these events come off without a hitch and that the United States will be the best and safest place to host these kinds of international events.

Mike Lee (01:53:52):

Fantastic. Thank you very much.

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:53:53):

Thank you.

Mike Lee (01:53:53):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Risch (01:53:54):

Thank you, Senator Lee. That'll conclude our hearing. Thank you both of you for the patience and benefit of your testimony. Before closing, I'll announce that I will add letters to support the committee has received on behalf of the nominees to the record. I'll also note that for the information, the members of the record will remain open until close of business tomorrow, Friday, April 4th, for members to submit questions for the record, which we will submit to you immediately and hope you'll respond to them immediately, if necessary. So with that, there's nothing further to come before the committee. The hearing is adjourned.

Ms. Monica Crowley (01:54:32):

Thank you. Thank you.