Linda McMahon Senate Confirmation Hearing

Sen. Cassidy (00:00):

And 8th grade scores fell by eight points. The failures of the traditional K through 12 schools are leading more families to try other education options proven to help students succeed, like charter schools. The Biden-Harris Department of Education tried to take these options away from families. They passed onerous regulations making it harder for charter schools to apply for federal grants impeding their ability to grow and to serve more children.

(00:27)
The department's bloated bureaucracy failed to improve the nation's education system, quite likely made it worse. There's been a lot of talk about dismantling the Department of Education, and I'm sure that you'll be asked this today. But before we begin, I want to explain what the Department of Education actually does. On average, only about 10% of public funds that go towards educating a child comes from the federal taxpayer. That's only 10%. 90% comes from state and local government.

(00:57)
While the federal government accounts for a small minority of the funding, it is responsible for the vast majority of bureaucracy and red tape preventing communities from improving educational success. I'm hearing from schools across the country that they have stopped going after federal competitive grant funding, because it is not worth the hoops and red tape the Department of Education is placed on those dollars. If schools are not eager to apply for competitive grants to improve operations, something is wrong and something should change.

(01:27)
It's not only the K through 12 system failing students, colleges and universities are not preparing students to succeed in the modern workforce. The cost of higher education are quickly outpacing the value of the degree students receive. According to a nonpartisan analysis, 23% of bachelor's degree programs and 43% of master's degrees have a negative return on investment. Too many students leave college woefully unprepared for the workforce after being saddled with overwhelming debt they cannot pay off. Under the last administration, the Department of Education's only answer was to transfer hundreds of billions of dollars. That's hundreds of billions in student debt. From those who willingly took it on to supposedly advance their life, they transferred it to Americans who either chose not to go to college or had already paid their way through school. To implement these schemes, the department dramatically increased the scope and authority of the student loan financing program clearly outside of what Congress previously intended. Your experience overseeing SBA loans will be a great asset as the department looks to reform a very broken student loan program.

(02:40)
We've also seen rampant anti-Semitism on college campuses leading to attacks and harassment of Jewish students. I'm pleased to see the Trump administration has already launched investigations and I look forward to working with you, presuming that you are confirmed.

(02:55)
The status quo is not working. The educational system is failing our children. The Biden-Harris Department of Education stood in the way of student success. Transformative change of the educational establishment is needed. The department needs to get out of the way of states and local communities who are best positioned to actually address students' needs. We need to empower parents so they have a voice in their child's education.

(03:19)
This includes increasing access to school choice, perhaps also called parental choice, so families can give their child every opportunity to succeed in the classroom and beyond. With President Trump in the office and Ms. McMahon's leadership, we have a real opportunity to accomplish this. Thank you again, Ms. McMahon for coming before this committee and continuing the discussion on how we can work together to improve student success and get our education system back on track. And with that, I yield to Senator Sanders, the ranking member.

Sen. Sanders (03:52):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ms. McMahon, nice to see you again. Let me begin by thanking teachers all over this country. This is a very difficult time to be a teacher and talking to teachers in Vermont and I think teachers all over the country, what they are telling me is they are spending a lot of their times not only teaching math and English, but dealing with the emotional needs of kids. Because among other things, our kids are struggling in many, many ways. So, it's a tough time to be a teacher and I want to thank the teachers very much for the extraordinary work that they're doing, especially for some of the most vulnerable kids in our country.

(04:40)
Way back in 1863, as we recall from our history books, Abraham Lincoln was in Gettysburg and he looked out on a field where soldiers by the thousands had just died in the struggle against slavery, and he talked about the need to maintain a government of the people, by the people and for the people. I always thought short but very powerful Gettysburg address. And I think in this country today, there is a growing fear that instead of having a government of the people, by the people and for the people, we are looking at a government of billionaires by billionaires and for billionaires, whose job is not to improve life for ordinary people, but to make the people on top even wealthier.

(05:32)
So, in the midst of massive income in wealth inequality where three people own more wealth in the bottom half of American society, the Republicans in the House yesterday introduced a budget resolution that would provide massive tax breaks to the people on top. And they would pay for those tax breaks for billionaires by cutting Medicaid, education and programs that working families throughout this country desperately need.

(06:09)
That is exactly the wrong thing to do. At a time when millions and millions of working families are struggling, our job is to protect those families and not worry about the billionaires who have never had it so good. But it's not just cuts in Medicaid, as devastating as that would be, we're looking at if the Republicans get their way, massive cuts to education. And I should also say that the people who are trying to privatize Social Security, privatize Medicare, privatize Medicaid, privatize the Veterans Administration, are precisely the same people who are trying to privatize public education in America. We must not allow that to happen.

(06:57)
In America, we must not allow our educational system to become a two-tier system. A system which says that if you have the money, you're going to get help from the federal government. You're going to get a voucher to send your kid to a school that may cost $50, $60,000 a year, while the public schools will end up being segregated, not just by race but by class. Most families in America do not have 40, 50, $60,000 a year to send their kids to private schools, and it's absurd to provide public money to make that possible. Our job is not to take away money from public schools to give it to private schools. It is to strengthen public education in America.

(07:40)
Further, President Trump has talked about abolishing the Department of Education. Yes, I think everybody on this committee wants to see us go after waste and bureaucracy in every agency of government. But what we must understand is that when we talk about the Department of Education, they are providing vital resources for 26 million children in this country who live in high poverty school districts. Is it the responsibility of the federal government to say that every kid in America, whether you are poor, middle class rich, gets a quality education? It is. And that is what a lot of what the Department of Education does.

(08:27)
Department of Education provides millions of public school students who have disabilities, emotional problems, physical problems, provides them with help. It provides Pell Grants and other important financial assistance that over 7 million low-income students need to get a higher education. So, the goal is not to abolish the Department of Education, it is to make it more effective and to make sure that it addresses the educational in this country.

(08:57)
Mr. Chairman, in my view, we need a Secretary of Education who understands that in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, we should have the best educational system on this planet from child care to graduate school. We need a Secretary of Education who understands that we're going to attract the best and the brightest to the teaching profession. You know what? We have to pay teachers the kinds of salaries that they deserve, which is why I've introduced legislation that says no teacher in America should earn less than $60,000 a year.

(09:32)
We need a Secretary of Education who understands that schools do not end at 2:30 or 3:00 o'clock. We need strong after-school programs. We need strong summer programs. We need a Secretary of Education who understands that we've got to invest in mental health. We need a Secretary of Education who understands that we have got to fully fund the Individuals with Disability Education Act.

(09:55)
So, there are a lot of questions I have for Mrs. McMahon. I very much appreciate her being here and look forward to the discussion we'll have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Cassidy (10:03):

Thank you, Senator Sanders. And now to introduce Ms. McMahon, we'll start with Senator Scott.

Sen. Scott (10:11):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member, thank you, committee members, for allowing me to have an opportunity to talk about my good friend Linda McMahon. I'll say that one of the things I love about the ranking member is his passion about the things he cares deeply about. He and I don't agree on the conclusions or the solutions, but I do believe that he is a thoughtful person who cares about the issues, and I hope that doesn't hurt your reelection bid.

(10:35)
But let me say this, I'm not a billionaire, never have been, likely never will be, but I am a kid who grew up in a single-parent household, mired in poverty, whose mother worked two jobs trying to keep the lights on. I went to four different elementary schools by the fourth grade. When I think about the issue of education, I think about how in the world do we ever get to a meritocracy if the vast majority of the kids today are going to segregated schools that are failing those kids. 13 schools in Maryland where the average kid, no, sorry, 99% of the kids cannot perform at grade level.

(11:28)
I think about Chicago on the South Side of where I spent a lot of time where 95% of the kids cannot perform at grade level. I think about Charleston, South Carolina, my hometown, where 60-plus percent of African-American males don't go to college. I think about the quagmire pit of failure that is consistently the case in inner city schools across America.

(12:10)
You talk about the re-segregation of America's public schools, it's already happened. It's happening right now. Our public education spends 850 billion to disappoint families, millions of families, across this country. 10% of the resources come from the federal government and yet 80 to 90% of all the rules that suppress performance come from Washington. The average employee at the Department of Education, these numbers are a few years ago and these unfortunately aren't part of my speech. Bernie changed my speech for me. It is about $106,000, where the average teacher makes 55,000. Those numbers are four or five years old.

(13:09)
But here's my point. My point is a simple point. I'm a guy who understands the weight of a poor education system and the benefit of a good education system, because I've experienced both. I chose to introduce Linda, not because I have an affinity for billionaires, though I might now actually, because I have a passion for quality that changes the trajectory of poor kids' lives permanently.

(13:45)
I can't think of a more important civil rights issue today than public education and the education of our kids. I can't think of a better person to take on that challenge that someone that I had confidence when she was the administrator of the SBA. I can't think of someone better to take on this challenge than someone that took a regional company, WWE, and made it into the global powerhouse that it is today than the co-founder, chief executive Linda McMahon.

(14:24)
I can't think of someone better to do the job than someone who served on her own state board of education, who was a trustee at Sacred Heart University and who led the policy initiatives at the America First Policy Institute. That would be Linda McMahon. I can tell you that there are a lot of questions I'd like to answer, but I don't have time.

(14:54)
But I can tell you this. For the poorest kids in our country disillusioned about the American dream, the answers they are looking rarely come from Washington. With all of our good intentions, the Department of Education has simply failed the poorest kids in the United States of America, the greatest nation on the planet. To turn that around, we need someone who's already succeeded in business and in government.

(15:34)
And let me just close with this. The Department of Education doesn't educate kids. It's a federal agency. Local communities and local teachers educate kids. Our department of education is a federal behemoth that needs to focus on getting more money in the hands of more students so that they have a better chance. And yes, I do believe that competition makes your quality go up and your cost go down.

(16:11)
Charter schools prove that, private schools prove that. And finally, Pell Grants. Pell Grants take public dollars to private schools. Unfortunately, poor Black kids today, the vast majority won't have a Pell Grant. Why? Because if you don't graduate from high school, if you don't have proficiency in reading, math and science, the likelihood of you going to college is zero. Let's improve our K through 12 system so that more of America's poor rural kids and inner-city kids both have the experience I have of realizing their version of the American dream.

Sen. Cassidy (17:07):

Thank you, Senator Scott, very powerful. Senator Britt.

Sen. Britt (17:11):

Well, that was amazing. Thank you. My colleague nailed it. Chair Cassidy, Ranking Members Sanders and members of this committee, I am honored to join you today to introduce President Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, my friend Linda McMahon. It is clear that our current education system isn't working. We have the status quo and that's actually failing our kids.

(17:42)
As you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, the latest NAEP scores show the students reading and math scores are down in almost every single state to the point where only 30% of eighth graders are meeting reading proficiency levels. The status quo in education just hasn't failed students, it's failed parents just like me and very respectfully, Mr. Ranking Member, the America that you just described, the one that you're fearful will be created. It already exists.

(18:17)
Our students deserve better. Our parents deserve better. We have to do something different in order to achieve a different result. For far too long, the Department of Education has catered to far-left bureaucrats at the expense of moms and dads. It is pushed for school closures, remove parental rights from the equation, promoted radical ideologies in the classroom and supported allowing men and boys to play in women and girls sports.

(18:48)
Enough is enough. We need a change agent at the Department of Education and that change agent is Linda McMahon. She's the perfect antidote to what is wrong with education in this country. Linda has an immensely successful track record as a business executive, as a leader of a government agency, and at the America First policy as an America first policy advocate. She's not just an overwhelmingly qualified nominee for Secretary of Education, but a nominee who can make a real difference at the department that sorely needs it.

(19:28)
She's also a grandmother of six with a personal stake in the quality of our education system. She understands how important it is that our kids learn what they're supposed to and how important it is for parents to be empowered. I'm right there with her. And that's not the only mission that Linda will pursue at the Secretary of Education.

(19:49)
As a secretary, attending a four-year college or university is the right path for many Americans, but it's not the only one available to graduating high schoolers and Linda will ensure that students know that. Linda led efforts to empower the American worker at AFPI, and I am confident that she will make aligning our education system and our workforce systems a priority at the Department of Education. That means strengthening 21st century skills, training and job preparedness, bridging the gap between technical school programs and industries and expanding apprenticeships and credentialing programs. Linda McMahon is someone who knows how to reform our education systems so it actually prepares our kids for the future, while also empowering parents to make decisions that affect their children's lives. She has the experience as an executive. She already demonstrated her immense ability to get the government out of the way as head of the Small Business Administration, and she knows both K-12 and higher education, as my distinguished colleague, Senator Scott said, in serving on the Connecticut State Board of Education and the Sacred Heart University Board. She was on that since 2004.

(21:10)
Her confirmation as Secretary of Education will be a monumental step towards preserving the American dream and making a bright future possible for the next generation of Americans. Let's put parents in the driver's seat. Let's return to the fundamentals of the classroom learning and teach kids the skills they need to actually achieve their goals.

(21:33)
Let's put education in the hands of states, not unaccountable federal bureaucrats. And for our kids' sake, let's confirm my friend Linda McMahon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Cassidy (21:46):

Thank you, Senator Britt. Ms. McMahon now for your opening statement, and you're welcome to introduce your guest.

Linda McMahon (21:53):

Thank you very much, chairman Cassidy. I'd like to introduce my daughter Stephanie McMahon, Paul Levesque, her husband, and my son Shane McMahon. I'm so happy to have them here and many friends from have come from far places, so I welcome having them here today and appreciate that they're here.

Speaker 1 (22:12):

Can you smell what McMahon is cooking? It's a world without IDEA, it's a world without [inaudible 00:22:14], it's a [inaudible 00:22:14].

Linda McMahon (22:14):

So thank you Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders and distinguished members of the committee, I'm honored to have your consideration to serve as the Secretary of the Department of Education, and I'd like to thank both Senator Scott and Britt for their introductions.

Sen. Cassidy (22:33):

Members of the audience are reminded, disruptions will not be permitted while the committee is [inaudible 00:22:38]. We ask you to respect that. I'm sorry, please continue.

Linda McMahon (22:43):

Certainly. And I'd like to thank both Senator Scott and Britt for their introductions and for the opportunity to welcome my friends and family. Thank you all so much for being here with me today. I would also like to thank President Trump for his confidence in me to lead a department whose mission and authority were a special focus of his campaign. He pledged to make American education the best in the world, return education to the states where it belongs and free American students from the education bureaucracy through school choice. November proved that American's overwhelmingly support the President's vision, and I am ready to enact it. Education is the issue that determines our national success and prepares American workers to win the future. I've been passionate about education since my earliest college days when I study to earn a teaching certificate.

(23:32)
This has continued through my business career as a Connecticut State Board of Education member, as a university trustee, and as the chair of the America First Policy Institute, which advocates for workforce development, parental choice and accountability in higher education. I'm also a mother and a grandmother, and I joined millions of American parents who want better schools for our kids and grandkids. The legacy of our nation's leadership and education is one that every person in this room embraces with pride.

(24:05)
Unfortunately, many Americans today are experiencing a system in decline. The latest scores from the nation's report card show achievement in K through 12 math and reading at their lowest level in years. More than two-thirds of public colleges are beset by violent crime on campuses every year. And most tragically, student suicide rates have dramatically increased over the last two decades.

(24:31)
We can do better. We can do better for the elementary and junior high school student by teaching basic reading and mathematics, for the college freshmen facing censorship or anti-Semitism on campus. And for parents and grandparents who worry that their children and grandchildren are no longer taught American values and true history.

(24:52)
In many cases, our wounds are caused by the excessive consolidation of power in our federal education establishment. So what's the remedy? Fund education freedom, not government-run systems. Listen to parents, not politicians, build up careers, not college debt, empower states not special interests. Invest in teachers not Washington bureaucrats.

(25:15)
If confirmed as secretary, I will work with Congress to reorient the department toward helping educators not controlling them. My experience as a business owner and leader of the Small Business Administration, as a public servant in the state of Connecticut and more than a decade of service as a college trustee has taught me to put parents, teachers and students, not bureaucracy first. Outstanding teachers are tired of political ideology in their curriculum and red tape on their desks.

(25:45)
And that's why school choice is a growing movement across the nation. It offers teachers and parents an alternative to classrooms that are micromanaged from Washington, DC. We should also emphasize career-focused education, especially in cutting-edge STEM fields where American companies need high-skilled employees. Our workers deserve more post-secondary pathways, career-aligned programs, apprenticeships and on-the-job learning and jobs in tech, skill trades and healthcare for non-college degree holders.

(26:16)
Those who do attend college deserve transparent costs and courses of study aligned to workforce demand. United States is the world leader by far in emerging technologies like AI and blockchain, and we need to invest in American students who want to become tech pioneers. We should encourage innovative new institutions, develop smart accountability systems and tear down barriers to entry so that students real choice and universities are not saddling future families with unsurmountable debt.

(26:48)
We must protect all students from discrimination and harassment. And if I'm confirmed, the department will not stand idly by while Jewish students are attacked and discriminated against. It'll stop forcing schools to let boys and men into female sports and spaces, and it will protect the rights of parents to direct the moral education of their children.

(27:09)
The opportunity for us these next four years is momentous. I look forward to working with the committee, our nation's parents, teachers and students and education leaders from all political perspectives to build a better future for every American learner. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you today and I look forward to your questions.

Sen. Cassidy (27:29):

Thank you very much. I shall begin. Everybody's rightly focused on the fact that we have a problem with reading scores, and they've been anchored where they are for quite some time with an incredibly high percentage of children not reading at grade level. And the old kind of truism that kids learn to read by grade three or four and they read to learn thereafter. But they're not learning to read by grade three or four.

(27:56)
So that said, dyslexia, according to NIH reviewed literature, affects 20% of our population. Those 20% learn to read differently, and if their differences are not acknowledged, then they'll be among those almost an anchor holding reading scores down. Now, it would just intuitively make sense to diagnose the child with dyslexia as early as possible. Most states do not screen.

(28:20)
That said, you can see where I'm going with my own thoughts, but what would be your approach to addressing the issue of dyslexia, which is frankly ignored, not in a state like New Hampshire, where Governor Hassan actually put in such programs, but in other states, what would be your approach to make sure that the child who's dyslexic is diagnosed at an early stage and receives the intervention that she or he would need to receive?

Linda McMahon (28:45):

Well, thank you very much, Chairman Cassidy. And I know this is a very sensitive subject for you since I believe it is your son that does have dyslexia as you and I discussed when I visited with you in your office-

Sen. Cassidy (28:55):

My daughter, but that's okay.

Linda McMahon (28:56):

I'm sorry, that's your daughter, but I certainly very much would like to be sure that we are looking to diagnose issues like dyslexia early, because we have found that it can be turned around. So, I'd like to work with you and understand how we could have better approach for that in our school systems.

Sen. Cassidy (29:16):

You had mentioned that you would not tolerate the anti-Semitism that has been on the rise. What steps would you take to make sure the backlog of anti-Semitism cases that the Office of Civil Rights is processed and those responsible for illegal discrimination held accountable?

Linda McMahon (29:33):

Senator Kennedy, I think that, Cassidy, I'm sorry, I think that by far what we saw happening on our campuses was absolutely deplorable. Kids locked in libraries afraid to come out. Now, I believe in freedom of speech on campus, open debate, and we should encourage that, but we cannot allow violence happening on our campuses. That puts all students in an unsafe place.

(29:59)
And if I were confirmed as the Secretary of Education, I would want to make sure that the presidents of those universities and those colleges are taking very strong measures not to allow those to happen. They can call in the police, they can do whatever they need to do, set standards, and to make sure those standards are upheld. We cannot allow that kind of violence to take place on our college campuses.

Sen. Cassidy (30:22):

Now, there's a current backlog in the Office of Civil Rights within the Dartmouth Department of Education to address this. Do you have any specific plans about how you could help them address that backlog?

Linda McMahon (30:32):

Well, I'd like very much to be confirmed and to be able to get into the department and understand that backlog, to talk to those lawyers who were there, and let's focus on what we need to do to clear out that backlog. And I'd look forward to doing that.

Sen. Cassidy (30:46):

President Trump is reportedly drafting an executive order, requiring the Secretary of Education to develop a plan for downsizing the Department of Education and working with Congress to eliminate entirely.

Sen. Cassidy (31:00):

… yes or no, do you agree that since the department was created by Congress it would need an act of Congress to actually close the Department of Education?

Linda McMahon (31:09):

And certainly President Trump understands that we'll be working with Congress. We'd like to do this right. We'd like to make sure that we're presenting a plan that I think our Senators could get on board with and our Congress could get on board with that would have a better functioning Department of Education, but certainly does require congressional action.

Sen. Cassidy (31:31):

Okay. And in terms of the plans to downsize, what would be the components of that plan that would not require congressional approval?

Linda McMahon (31:41):

Well, I do believe, Senator, that there are Departments of Education that are established by statute and those particular departments, we'd have to pay particular attention to, but long before there was a Department of Education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. Are there other areas, other agencies, where parts of the Department of Education could better serve our students and our parents on a local level? And I am really all for the President's mission, which is to return education to the states. I believe as he does that the best education is closest to the child and not certainly from Washington DC.

Sen. Cassidy (32:23):

If the department has downsized, would the states and localities still receive the federal funding which they currently receive?

Linda McMahon (32:27):

Yes.

Sen. Cassidy (32:28):

Okay. With that, I-

Linda McMahon (32:29):

It is not the President's goal to defund the programs. It is only to have it operate more efficiently.

Sen. Cassidy (32:34):

With that, I yield to Senator Sanders.

Sen. Sanders (32:37):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When we talk about education, we're looking at it in a vacuum. We're talking about the struggles that low-income kids are having and that's true, but Mrs. McMahon, you are also aware that in America we have more income and wealth inequality than we've ever had before. You are aware that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on Earth. You are aware, I suspect, that teachers are dealing with kids who are literally homeless, kids who come from dysfunctional families where there is violence. Does it concern you in America that we are living in a society where the people on top are doing phenomenally well while 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck? And how do you think that impacts our educational system?

Linda McMahon (33:31):

Thank you very much, Senator, for that question. First of all, let me say that I believe that teaching is one of the most noble professions that we have in our country and we have so many good, dedicated teachers to help our students. I do think that we are trapping students often in low-performing schools and that's why the President has such a strong policy towards school choice.

Sen. Sanders (33:57):

But you will agree… I don't mean to interrupt you, but you'll agree that you can't just look at educate… The truth is that middle class, upper middle class public schools in America generally do pretty well, but if you are homeless, if you were a homeless person and you had kids, the odds of your kids doing pretty well, and I could… I'm just asking you, what do you think about the massive level of income and wealth inequality, the fact that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty? Is that something you think you might want to pay attention to?

Linda McMahon (34:24):

Well, certainly, Senator, I do believe that we want to make sure that every child in our country has the opportunity to have equal access to a quality education and the Department of Education really is not setting economic policy in the country. We should focus on educating our children and we should focus on it at the local level.

Sen. Sanders (34:46):

Let me ask you this. You mentioned correctly that we have many great teachers in America, right?

Linda McMahon (34:52):

Yes.

Sen. Sanders (34:54):

If you as a businesswoman wanted to attract the best and the brightest, would you be starting them off after they leave school maybe 50, $60,000 in debt with salaries of 35, 40,000? Or would you say, "We respect…" You talked about teaching being the noblest profession. I agree with you. Would you agree with me, support my legislation that says no teacher in America should earn at least $60,000 a year?

Linda McMahon (35:21):

Well, certainly the pay to teachers is up to the states where those teachers reside. I do believe we should pay our teachers fairly. They spend so much time with our students and they should be well compensated for their job-

Sen. Sanders (35:34):

All right. But paying them fairly, nobody in the world will disagree with you. I mean, the question is, if teaching is a noble profession, if teaching is an important profession, should we be paying them salaries commensurate with the value of the work that they're doing? So I'm asking you a simple question. Would you recommend to states as the leader of education in America that teachers at least makes $60,000 a year?

Linda McMahon (36:01):

I would certainly recommend to states that teachers be paid what is commensurate with the kinds of jobs that are part of their states. Not all states have the same living costs. Not all states have the same ability to pay teachers. But to attract really good teachers and to keep them, we should definitely pay them commensurate with the job performance that they're undertaking.

Sen. Sanders (36:26):

Millions of young people, low-income people, are finding it very difficult to afford to go to college and they're leaving school 50, 100, $200,000 in debt. Pell Grant program provides assistance to over 7 million low-income young people in this country. Can you guarantee to us if you are made Secretary of Education that no student in America will lose their Pell Grant as the department is dismantled?

Linda McMahon (37:01):

Surely defunding is not the goal here. The continuation of Pell Grants. I'd actually even like to see an expansion of Pell Grants. I'd like to see short-term certificates for Pell Grants for students who aren't going on to four-year universities who could have the opportunity to use Pell Grants for skill-based learning.

Sen. Sanders (37:18):

All right. So what I'm hearing you say is Pell Grant program will continue under your administration?

Linda McMahon (37:28):

Yes.

Sen. Sanders (37:29):

Okay. Senator Cassidy asked you an important question, and that is, do you agree, let me just once again get your feelings on this, that if there is a movement to abolish the Department of Education, it has to go through the United States Congress?

Linda McMahon (37:45):

Yes. It is set up by the United States Congress and we work with Congress. It clearly cannot be shut down without it.

Sen. Sanders (37:54):

Thank you.

Sen. Cassidy (37:57):

Senator Collins.

Senator Collins (37:58):

Thank you. Welcome. First of all, let me say I was very pleased to hear your strong commitment to enforcing the Office of Civil Rights jurisdiction over the many instances, horrible incidences, of anti-Semitism that we've seen on our college campuses. Among the important programs that are administered by the Department of Education are Title I, IDEA and the TRIO Programs, all of which have been high priorities for me. I want to briefly discuss those programs. Title I helps public schools that are serving low-income students. It helps level the playing field in terms of resources compared to more affluent communities. In Maine, 63% of our public schools received Title I funds. Very important to our state.

(39:09)
Second, IDEA, the Disabilities and Education Act, which helps children with special needs. Maine receives more than 65 million to support K-12 students with special education needs. I would note that that falls far short of the 40% that was promised when the legislation was passed in the 1970s. TRIO programs, which we've discussed, have changed the lives of countless first-generation students who are going to college and come from families with no experience with higher education. I've seen so many success stories as a result of TRIO. So my question for you is how do we maintain the administration and oversight of these programs if we abolish or substantially reorganize the Department of Education?

Linda McMahon (40:16):

Thank you, Senator Collins. And I know how passionate you are about these issues and I enjoyed meeting with you in your office and talking about these various things, especially I think the TRIO program, which we both agreed was just hit the terrible blow just by regulation when some of the students who were applying, their applications were rejected simply because of spacing on a form. And that kind of regulatory control just cannot stand. That is just a impossible. The Title I programs that you've been discussed will continue to be appropriated through Congress. Today, they go directly to the State Department of Education and then are distributed to the districts. Not looking to defund or reduce any of those amounts.

(41:04)
IDEA is the same, but might it be better served in a different agency? I'm not sure. It started at HEW. And the concerns for disabilities and health issues with students may very well rest better within an agency that has more oversight of all of those. So I think if I am confirmed to be able to get in and assess programs, how they can have the best oversight possible, how we can really take the bureaucracy out of education and focus on teaching our children to read and to do math and to appreciate our history is certainly my goal and would be my goal as the Secretary of Education.

Senator Collins (41:46):

Thank you. On Monday, the administration announced that the Department of Education was going to terminate 89 contracts from the Institute of Education Sciences. They were worth $881 million, as well as terminating 29 training grants. This week my office heard from a former teacher from Oakland, Maine who has developed a high-impact tutoring model and it's currently being used in 12 schools in Maine alone. And she has one of the grant applications pending to more thoroughly evaluate the impact of this model on the student's outcomes. She's worried that it's now going to be in jeopardy due to these sudden cuts. Considering the poor reading and math scores reported by NAEP, and that unfortunately includes poor scores in my home state, shouldn't the Department of Education continue to collect data and evaluate outcomes rather than to halt these activities so that you can help states know what works?

Linda McMahon (43:09):

Well, thank you, Senator. And it is my goal if I am confirmed to get in and assess these kinds of programs because I'm not sure yet what the impact of all of those programs are. I know that there are many worthwhile programs that we should keep, but I'm not yet apprised of them. I want to study them. I'd like to get back and talk to you more and to work with you. I look forward to working with this committee and all of Congress to make sure we can deliver for our education.

Senator Collins (43:38):

Thank you. I appreciate your responses.

Linda McMahon (43:42):

Thank you.

Senator Collins (43:42):

Thank you.

Speaker 2 (43:42):

[inaudible 00:43:43] protect our schools.

Speaker 3 (43:44):

The committee will come to order.

Speaker 2 (43:46):

No more vouchers. No more charters. Protect-

Speaker 3 (43:49):

Senator Murray.

Senator Murray (43:52):

Thank you, Ms. McMahon. Elon Musk's DOGE staffers have reportedly set up camp at the Department of Education. They've already been given access to highly sensitive student data and have already started holding back money that Congress decided on a bipartisan basis was needed to help our schools and students. We're also hearing, as you know, about an executive order coming any day that will seek to dismantle the Department of Education. These are bipartisan laws. You indicated that you understood that, that Congress has passed these laws. But a lot of turmoil is happening. You heard it from my colleague just asking that question now. So I want to ask you if confirmed, do you commit to getting every dollar we have invested in our students and schools out to them?

Linda McMahon (44:41):

Well, the appropriated dollars and those monies that are passed by Congress, yes. I have no issue, however, with the fact, and I believe the American people spoke loudly in the election last November to say that they want to look at waste, fraud and abuse in our government. So DOGE, there are a couple of implants at the Department of Education. There are with agencies throughout the district. And they're doing an audit. And is-

Senator Murray (45:08):

Right. I understand an audit, but when Congress appropriates money, it is the administration's responsibility to put that out as directed by Congress who has the power of the purse. So what will you do if the President or Elon Musk tells you not to spend money Congress has appropriated to you?

Linda McMahon (45:27):

We'll certainly expend those dollars that Congress has passed, but I do think it is worthwhile to take a look at the programs before money goes out the door. It's much easier…

Senator Murray (45:39):

I understand that, but the [inaudible 00:45:40] by law is [inaudible 00:45:40]

Linda McMahon (45:39):

It is much easier to stop the money as it's going out the door than it is to claw it back.

Senator Murray (45:45):

Process by law is that you look at that, you make recommendations to Congress and we implement those laws. So I mean, the question really is who decides how much federal funding public schools get in Seattle where it's already been allocated? The school district? Or Elon Musk? Or Congress? And I think Congress has been pretty clear that the [inaudible 00:46:10] here, we pass our appropriations bills, we expect those programs to come. If you have input, if you have programs you have looked at that you believe are not effective, then it is your job to come to us, explain why and get the support for that.

Linda McMahon (46:24):

Thank you.

Senator Murray (46:24):

Let me move on. Ms. McMahon, I believe that our nation's students, families and taxpayers do want true accountability. They do want improvement in our schools. Back in 2015, Congress came together in a bipartisan way to replace the No Child Left Behind Act with the new law Every Student Succeeds Act. That was a bill I was very proud to negotiate with my Republican counterpart on this committee, passed it into law. It gives states more flexibility in using their federal education funds. It eliminated those one-size-fits-all mandates that everyone hated. And it established some really strong federal guardrails to hold states and schools accountable. I believe that the Department of Education must do more to implement that law. Right now, less than 42% of our schools identified for comprehensive support and improvement, or CSI, as we call it, had a plan that met all the requirements of that law. And one in five schools plans included practices we know are ineffective. National assessment results, as you well know, released a few weeks ago, show that our lowest performing students continue to fall furthest behind.

(47:37)
So I want to ask you, what specific actions will you take to implement the ESSA Law? I'm not looking for an exhaustive list, but can you name a couple of the requirements that are in that law that you will make sure are implemented?

Linda McMahon (47:51):

Well, Senator, thank you. And I would look forward to working with you in the committee, understanding more about the ESSA Law-

Senator Murray (47:58):

Do you know what the requirements are? Do you know about the requirements for targeted support improvement schools or the annual report card requirements? Can you name any of the requirements that are in that?

Linda McMahon (48:06):

Yes, I have read through ESSA and I do know… It's very interesting. It's how I really got into education in the first place was when No Child Left Behind was in place-

Senator Murray (48:16):

But there are no requirements that you can tell me right now that you'll make sure as Secretary of Education you'll implement?

Linda McMahon (48:23):

No. I want to study it further and get back to you on that and I'll be happy to do that.

Senator Murray (48:27):

Okay. Well, let me ask one last question. As I mentioned, DOGE staff have been given access in the Department of Education to personal information, personal information of students and families, like their Social Security Numbers and their driver's license numbers and their date of birth, what college they're enrolled in. I know that the access has been temporarily paused due to litigation, but there is a real potential for that kind of information to be abused or for students' privacy to be placed in jeopardy if the courts end up ruling against the students. And we know that DOGE could use that highly personal information to then target students and target their families or cut off access to Pell Grants for students at college that someone perceives opposes maybe President Trump policy. So I want to ask you, do you believe that DOGE employees should have access to private student data?

Linda McMahon (49:25):

It is my understanding that DOGE employees have been onboarded as employees of the Department of Education and therefore they operate under the restraints of utilizing access of information and they are constrained by that.

Senator Murray (49:39):

That is not our understanding.

Linda McMahon (49:40):

That's my understanding.

Senator Murray (49:44):

And I have to tell you deeply concerning that we have DOGE staffers, we don't know who they are, they're not held accountable, getting access to students' private information. I think that should frighten everyone.

Linda McMahon (49:50):

Well, again, I'm not there yet.

Senator Murray (49:53):

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Linda McMahon (49:54):

So I'm not there yet, but it is my understanding that they are onboarded fully employees.

Senator Murray (49:57):

I hope if you do get there that you make sure that student private information is not given to someone who's no idea what they have or we have no idea how they're using it. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (50:07):

Senator Husted.

Senator Husted (50:10):

Thank you. Ms. McMahon, thank you, or congratulations on your nomination.

Linda McMahon (50:15):

Thank you.

Senator Husted (50:16):

Look forward to your confirmation, hopefully, and working with you on what is arguably one of the most important issues to the future of our country and to our children. I would just simply ask you if you believe that education is foundational to the opportunity to live your version of the American dream for children. You agree with that?

Linda McMahon (50:40):

I certainly do agree with that. And thank you very much, Senator, for that question. Education I think is at the very… It's at the very center of our culture. It is the ticket out of poverty for so many students. It is how our children's minds are absolutely cultivated so that they can learn. And I remember listening to Senator Cassidy when he said that every child up until the third grade learns to read and then after the third grade reads to learn. And if children cannot read at a proficiency level, they cannot continue to learn. They can't then be proficient in school. They can't go forward to higher education. They can't even start a business or do anything. So education, I do believe, is at the very center of what we need to do and to ensure that we have the best education for our students and that they all have equal access to a quality education.

Senator Husted (51:42):

Thank you. The issue of inequality has come up in this hearing. And I can tell you when I started in my elected career, I was a green state legislator in the State of Ohio who had this strange notion that if children were trapped in chronically failing schools that they should have the opportunity to go somewhere else and that I thought, "Who could be against that?" And I quickly found out, well, there were a lot of people who were against that, powerful people, powerful institutions. And I just believe that as we as Americans, we believe that freedom and choice is good. It's part of our DNA. It's good for markets and business and that monopolies don't work, whether that's big business or big government. And that has been reinforced to me over the course of basically my lifetime that I've worked on this issue.

(52:38)
Foundationally or fundamentally, billionaires have choice. Their children have choice. It's children that grow up in poverty that don't have choice. And that is an important element of fixing inequality because if we say that an education is foundational to living your version of the American dream, yet you don't have the choice to go to a school that serves your needs, we basically have institutionalized a barrier against that opportunity and to have that equality of opportunity. Just share with me how you hope to fix that.

Linda McMahon (53:20):

Well, certainly, the President, one of his cornerstones relative to education is school choice. He certainly does believe in universal school choice. And we have seen… I think that there are now… I believe the number's 33 states, I might be corrected on that, states that do have school choice. And what we have found that public schools come up, they're competitive. A lot of the concerns relative to school choice I think the statistics belie. We have students that are not leaving public schools in hordes and going to other schools, but they have the opportunity. Parents look at their children and say, " I want that for my child. My school is failing my child." So if I have the opportunity to have an educational savings account or a voucher program or a scholarship program to get my child maybe to that charter school or to that other public school that is doing better than the one that my child is here because this is where I live, but I know that if I could get my child to that next school, they would be better off, every parent wants that opportunity for their child.

Senator Husted (54:29):

Thank you. And just quickly, I made some calls to superintendents in my state, in Ohio, before I came today and I said, "Would you prefer to have the money sent directly to you rather than through the federal Department of Education? And do you think you could do a better job if we released you from the rules and regulations and you just said?" And they said, "Yes. Tell us what you want us to achieve, we'll achieve it, we'll do it." And I just wanted to share that with you and that I also want to give you the chance to answer this, that you're not and President Trump is not talking about cutting any funding for children. You're not talking about cutting funding for disabled children. You're just talking about changing the way that the money gets to these students in schools and that you're committed to that. Is that correct?

Linda McMahon (55:23):

That is correct, Senator. Thank you very much.

Senator Husted (55:24):

Great. Thank you.

Sen. Cassidy (55:25):

It is now Senator Baldwin.

Senator Baldwin (55:31):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And before I start my questions, I just wanted to put some studies in the record. Recent research studies of private school vouchers in Louisiana, Indiana, Ohio and Washington DC showed that students who used these vouchers performed worse academically than their public school peers. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record those four studies that show private school vouchers have a negative impact on student achievement.

Sen. Cassidy (56:00):

Without objection.

Senator Baldwin (56:01):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. McMahon, I appreciated the opportunity to meet with you last month, and I believe in giving all the President's nominees a fair shake. That's what the people of Wisconsin expect from me. And I look forward to hearing more about your approach to running the Department of Education if confirmed. Mrs. McMahon, since 1972, Title IX has been a critical tool in ensuring that all students are protected from sex- based discrimination in federally funded education programs. We briefly discussed Title IX in our meeting, but I'd like to ask you a series of yes or no questions to get into a little bit more detail here. So yes or no, do you believe that Title IX should be enforced to protect students from sexual harassment and sexual assault?

Linda McMahon (56:53):

Yes, I do.

Senator Baldwin (56:55):

Do you believe that sexual harassment that is severe should be prohibited under Title IX?

Linda McMahon (57:03):

I think sexual harassment should be prohibited in any case.

Senator Baldwin (57:06):

Thank you. Do you believe that sexual harassment that is pervasive should be prohibited by Title IX?

Linda McMahon (57:15):

Yes.

Senator Baldwin (57:16):

Do you believe that harassment that is either severe or pervasive should be prohibited under Title IX?

Linda McMahon (57:25):

I don't believe there should be any acceptance of sexual harassment, Senator.

Senator Baldwin (57:30):

Great, because I'm glad you actually agree with President Trump's efforts during his first term to narrow what qualifies as sexual harassment under Title IX. His guidance said that sexual harassment had to be severe and pervasive. And I hope that you will take your position and press for that to be the law, but right now, the Title IX is limited to sexual harassment that is severe and pervasive, not severe or pervasive. Yes or no, if an assault occurs between two students but it happens off campus, do you think the school should have the ability to investigate that matter?

Linda McMahon (58:32):

I think the school should investigate that matter, and I believe under the regulations today, and I could be corrected on that, that they are obligated to investigate.

Senator Baldwin (58:41):

Okay. And do you believe that the school then after investigation should have the ability to take actions regarding an incident that occurs off campus?

Linda McMahon (58:52):

Yes. The school should be required to take those actions and to investigate and to notify the parties that are involved and so that both sides of the equation can have due process.

Senator Baldwin (59:06):

I appreciate your answer. It is not entirely clear at this time that the incidents would not only be investigated but adjudicated as to the school's adjudication rules. And the problem with that, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that you would have the potential of a victim of sexual assault facing the potential of attending class with their perpetrator. Despite how much this administration likes to talk about protecting women and girls, the actions have not matched the rhetoric. And so I think instead of actually protecting women and girls, this administration is not making school a safer place for anyone while using this topic as a way to fear monger and demonize others.

(01:00:09)
Mrs. McMahon, you have been named in a lawsuit which alleges that you and your husband allowed for systemic and pervasive abuse of underage children to persist in your business for years. It is an ongoing lawsuit and it alleges that you rehired a known sexual predator and you felt it was sufficient to simply direct him to steer clear of children. If confirmed, you will be responsible with overseeing the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights, charged with ensuring equal access to education through vigorous enforcement of civil rights laws. I am so concerned about whether sexual assault survivors on campus can trust you to support them.

Linda McMahon (01:01:02):

Thank you, Senator. They certainly can trust me to support them. I have a granddaughter that is now in college. I have two grandsons who are in college. And I have deep commitment of understanding of how I would feel if any of them were involved in sexual harassment or accused of sexual harassment. You have my absolute commitment that I will uphold and protect those investigations to make sure that those students are treated fairly on both sides.

Senator Baldwin (01:01:33):

Mrs. McMahon, we met shortly after a shooting at-

Sen. Cassidy (01:01:38):

You're a minute over.

Senator Baldwin (01:01:39):

Oh, I will submit this question for the record. Thank you.

Linda McMahon (01:01:44):

Thank you, Senator.

Sen. Cassidy (01:01:46):

Senator Tuberville.

Senator Tuberville (01:01:48):

Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Ms. McMahon, thank you for being here today and thanks for wanting to take on this monumental task. You know I've… I'm a football coach. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not

Senator Tuberville (01:02:00):

Not a business guy, I taught high school and worked my way up for 40 years. This country gives you one thing, and it's what I taught my kids when I coached. This country doesn't owe you anything but an opportunity, and that's the reason this country is the greatest country on face the earth. Now when you lose that opportunity, and I've lost many times, I've got my tail back up and gone again. But that's where you learn it, through education. I've been to every state in this country recruiting, going through high schools except for Alaska in my 40 years. In my 40 years of coaching and going into high school, there's not been a bigger disappointment than our education system. I've seen it decline for 40 years. It's gotten worse.

(01:02:45)
You're going to have the task of trying to bring it back. It's going to be hard to do because you're going to be fought from every side. This is not Democrat, Republican, black, white, it's not. It's an American problem. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars of my budget when I coached in bringing kids in, after I tested them, they couldn't read past the sixth grade and reading level, but they had 3.5 GPAs when they came to my university. We're failing. It is a disaster. If you can't read, you can't learn, and that's one of the first things that we got to get back to, is teaching our kids to read. We got a lot of teachers that don't teach reading like you and I learned. It's different.

(01:03:26)
We have all this nonsensical teaching of what we call common core of math, I still haven't figured that out. But thanks for wanting to take this on, because there's a lot of obstacles going to be in your way, and so don't be afraid to make changes. We've had a K through 12 system for years, it's a failure. It is an absolute failure. Let's teach our kids, that's the only chance they got to survive in this world which is going to be very competitive. Now we have things that get in our way, and what's deterring our kids nowadays, that thing right there. I had problems coaching with it.

(01:04:06)
I was enemy number one when I told them, put that phone up. Don't bring it to my dressing room, because I want you to listen and learn, not be on there listening to music and read the nonsense you see on there. So you've got a lot of obstacles. The one thing I think we need to do is just look at K through 12 and what do we do? How do we get better? I'm all for workforce development in the last two years of high school, teaching kids to learn to use their hands. And what's your thoughts on that about work in high school? I'm not talking about past high, I'm talking about the last couple of years.

Linda McMahon (01:04:44):

Well, thank you Senator. I think when you and I met in your office, and I appreciated that time, I discussed with you that I probably dated myself by saying that when I was in high school. In your senior year in high school, you could take vocational program, which meant that you went to school the first part of the day, the second part of the day you could have a job, you could be learning a skill or a trade, and those credits would count towards your education. I think we need to get back to more of that, we are not teaching skilled-based learning in our schools anymore. And I think we have to look at our entire education system and say four-year college is not for everyone. For those particular jobs that require doctors, lawyers, engineers, that require four years, then I think-

Sen. Cassidy (01:05:31):

Ms. McMahon, please suspend.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):

Protect immigrant youth! Protect immigrant youth!

Sen. Cassidy (01:05:36):

The committee will come to order. Capitol Police are asked to remove the individual from the room.

Senator Tuberville (01:05:42):

I don't think she knows how to read or listen.

Sen. Cassidy (01:05:45):

Again, members of the audience are reminded that disruptions will not be permitted while the committee conducts its business. With that, Ms. McMahon, please resume.

Linda McMahon (01:05:54):

Thank you. So I think we do have to get back to teaching basics in school K through 12, but to continue onto what we were talking about, we don't have enough skill-based learning, we don't have enough internships or apprenticeship programs. I'd also like to see more dual credits in our high schools, our junior and senior years, that would count towards community colleges or other institutes, that would get students through college faster if in fact that is the plan that they are going to take. So we have so much that we can do to help our students get prepared to have a good income and a good livelihood.

(01:06:33)
And if they can graduate from high school with some skill-based already, they can even start a business of their own. They can decide at that particular point, I want to put more money towards my own education, but in the meantime I'm prepared to make a living. But I think we have to look at education and say our vocational and skill-based training is not a default education. It can be something, it can be front and center so that students who are inclined to go in that direction actually should be encouraged to do that. It's not one size fits all.

Senator Tuberville (01:07:07):

I would hope too that you would look, my time's almost up, would look at the number of teachers we have now as compared to administrators. We need teachers, we don't need people sitting in the office with their feet propped up. We need people in the classroom teaching these kids, holding them accountable. And put more money in the teachers and less money in administrators, I think we'd be a heck of a lot better off. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Linda McMahon (01:07:30):

Thank you.

Sen. Cassidy (01:07:31):

And I'll note for the record that many of the losses coach Tuberville suffered were at the hands of LSU. Senator Murphy.

Sen. Murphy (01:07:40):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and Ms. McMahon, good to see you. You and I have spent a lot of time over the years, and I appreciate your willingness to sit before the committee and answer some really important questions. I want to talk to you about an executive order that the Trump administration issued that commands agencies including the Department of Education to eliminate grants to organizations and entities that support DEI programs and activities. As you know, this has a lot of schools all across the country scrambling because they have no idea what that means. They don't know because the order doesn't define DEI as to whether they are in compliance or out of compliance and whether they're going to have their federal grants compromised. How does the school know whether it's running a DEI program or not?

Linda McMahon (01:08:39):

Well certainly, and thank you Senator, and it is good to see you again outside of the state of Connecticut where we run into each other. DEI I think has been, it's a program that's tough. It was put in place ostensibly for more diversity, for equity and inclusion, and I think what we're seeing is that it's having an opposite effect. We are getting back to more segregating of our schools instead of having more inclusion in our schools. When there are DEI programs that say that black students need separate graduation ceremonies or Hispanics need separate ceremonies, we are not achieving what we wanted to achieve with inclusion.

Sen. Murphy (01:09:24):

Let me give you an example then. So this order applies to Department of Defense Schools, and those schools have canceled all programming around Black History Month. So if a school in Connecticut celebrates Martin Luther King Day and has a series of events and programming teaching about black history, are they in violation of a policy that says schools should stop running DEI programs?

Linda McMahon (01:09:57):

Not in my view, that is clearly not the case. The celebration of Martin Luther King Day and Black History Month should be celebrated throughout all of our schools. I believe that Martin Luther King was one of the strongest proponents of making sure that we look at all of our populations. When he said that he would hope that his children wouldn't be judged by the color of their skin but the content of their character, and I think that is the fundamental basis that we should celebrate Black History Month.

Sen. Murphy (01:10:27):

West Point has closed down all ethnic clubs, so the Society of Black Engineers no longer can meet because they believe that to be in compliance with this order, they cannot have groups structured around ethnic or racial affiliations. Would public schools be in violation of this order? Would they risk funding if they had clubs that students could belong to based on their racial or ethnic identity?

Linda McMahon (01:10:54):

Well, I certainly today don't want to address hypothetical situations. I would like, once I'm confirmed to get in and assess these programs, look at what has been covered-

Sen. Murphy (01:11:04):

It's not a pretty easy one. I mean, you're saying that it's a possibility that if a school has a club for Vietnamese-American students or black students where they meet after school, that they could be potentially in jeopardy of receiving federal funding.

Linda McMahon (01:11:20):

Again, I would like to fully order is and what those clubs are doing.

Sen. Murphy (01:11:29):

That's pretty chilling. I think schools all around the country are going to hear that. What about educational programming centered around specific ethnic and racial experiences? My son is in a public school, he takes a class called African-American History. If you're running an African-American history class, could you perhaps be in of this corridor of this executive order?

Linda McMahon (01:11:53):

I'm not quite certain and I'd like to look into it further and get back to you on that.

Sen. Murphy (01:11:58):

So there's a possibility, there's a possibility you're saying, that public schools that run African-American history classes, this is a class that has been taught in public schools for decades, could lose federal funding if they continue to teach African-American history.

Linda McMahon (01:12:17):

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I would like to take a look at these programs and fully understand the breadth of the executive order and get back to you on that.

Sen. Murphy (01:12:27):

I think you're going to have a lot of educators and a lot of principals and administrators scrambling right now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, my time's expired.

Sen. Cassidy (01:12:38):

Senator Murkowski.

Sen. Murkowski (01:12:41):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms. McMahon.

Linda McMahon (01:12:43):

Thank you.

Sen. Murkowski (01:12:44):

Good to have a conversation with you. You have had the privilege, I know, to come to Alaska. During your tenure at the SBA you came north, so I know that you have had an opportunity to understand some of the challenges that we face with basically our geography. And I wanted to talk a little bit this morning about our public schools. There's a lot of discussion and I listened carefully to your comments to Senator Husted about school choice. We would all love to have the benefits of greater school choice. In the Anchorage public school system, my sons were able to attend a magnet school that was focused on an immersion program for Spanish-speaking immersion program. It was a great program for them. I go to the vast majority of my communities across the state and there is no choice. It is a small village, it may have 500 people, it may have 1000 people, but you have one school.

(01:14:03)
And it's not as if there is an opportunity to go to another school because 82% of these communities are not connected by a road, so if you wanted to go to another school, you would have to figure out how you fly to another village, another population center. So for me, investment in our public education system is really what I have been focused on. I had an opportunity to speak before our Alaska Association of School Boards just recently and received a standing ovation when I said public funds for public schools, pretty simple. And so I want to ask you whether you believe it is your primary role and responsibility as secretary to support and strengthen our nation's public schools?

Linda McMahon (01:14:51):

I absolutely do believe that our public schools are the bedrock of our education. They go back to the very founding of our country. I think in the first constitution there were actually sectors of each state that were set aside for the specific goal of public education. And so education is certainly understood to be so vital and so important to what we're doing. I understand the schools in Alaska, I think when I was in your office, we were talking about the school that I visited in Kwethluk, which is a very, very small island, and this school was being funded by SBA, this was when I was at SBA. And because we were looking at the fact that there was no real community center and no glue holding the community together and that children, and especially in K through 12, often dropped out of school because they didn't see the need or the necessity to continue with education, and they would often wind up on the streets or not having jobs.

(01:15:55)
I've not checked back with that school to see how it was going but I saw the commitment of that community to invest and to make sure that the best education, and this was a state-of-the-art school built on this island. And when I pulled up in the boat in that village, there were mothers in a smoking hut that were cutting salmon to get ready for the winter, and on the other side there was this incredibly modern school that was being built. And I think we have to invest our public education if we can use public funds to help with tutoring in those issues and those instances where you don't have a choice to go to another school.

Sen. Murkowski (01:16:37):

And you quite possibly saw one of the very few examples of good infrastructure. And as we know, it's not just giving a good building, it is making sure that you have teachers that are able to stay in a village that lacks a lot of resources, a lot of support. I want to pivot from that but I do want to underscore the emphasis on education equity across America, including in the most rural of areas, because I listen to a lot of the comments around here and it works if you're in a city, but it doesn't work in my communities, and I have an obligation to them. I want to ask you about local control here real quickly. This has been something that as Republicans we've been talking about. It's local control, local control, local control. And we've got a lot of folks that are suggesting that now the public school curriculum should not include lessons in diversity, equity, and inclusion, want to focus on other things, I understand that.

(01:17:39)
But we have ESA, the Elementary Secondary Education Act. We included a number of provisions that were very, very specific in prohibiting any federal employee from mandating, directing, or controlling a state's school districts or school's instructional content, academic standards and assessments, curricula or program of instruction. So you may be in a situation where, as secretary, you may not condition the award of a grant on a school agreeing not to teach DEI subjects, you may be in a position where you can't mandate that they teach the principles of the US constitution. You may be in a position where you are not able to prohibit teachers from discussing LGBTQ issues with students. ESA is very clear, and again, it was something that we wanted to promote as Republicans with a focus on local control. So how do you balance what you have shared here before the committee with the requirements of the law that says the federal government is not the school board here, if you will, for our nation's schools.

Linda McMahon (01:18:59):

Thank you, senator and I believe… I don't remember which of the senators this morning, well, actually I think it was Senator Scott who said the Department of Education does not actually educate any child. It is to be handled at the local level. And I understand under ESA there were lots of regulations put in place and the goal was to return education to the states, which is clearly the president's role. But Senator, I must say we have failed in our mission. We are not delivering the kind of education that we need to deliver to our children. I believe, as does the president, the best education is closest to the child, that parents and school officials who understand the needs of those children in those communities can best direct the education of those states, and states will be competitive.

(01:19:49)
Governors have put in programs for school choice, et cetera, and what kind of results are we seeing? I was heartened by the state of Louisiana in the recent NAEP scores that came out that they had brought up their reading and their math scores by a considerable percentage because they went back to basics. They were teaching children to read and write and do arithmetic. And I think I heard superintendent of the Louisiana School say that he used everything from flashcards to AI to make sure that the students were getting the basics in education, and that's what we have to get back to.

Sen. Murkowski (01:20:32):

It sounds like you're suggesting we need to amend or change ESA, is what I'm taking-

Sen. Cassidy (01:20:36):

Senator Murkowski, I was asleep at the wheel. You're way over.

Sen. Murkowski (01:20:39):

I'm sorry.

Sen. Cassidy (01:20:41):

Senator Kane.

Sen. Kane (01:20:44):

I would never describe you as asleep at the wheel, Mr. Chairman. But thank you Ms. McMahon, I enjoyed the visit we had in our office, especially our discussion about career and technical education, that's a huge passion of mine. I want to ask you about public service loan forgiveness. The federal public service loan forgiveness program was put in place during the Bush administration, bipartisan Congress, it's been part of law since 2007. What is your position on public service loan forgiveness programs?

Linda McMahon (01:21:11):

Well, certainly, and thank you very much, and it was good to visit with you in your office, Senator. Clearly there are programs that have already been passed by Congress that do in fact grant loan forgiveness for public service, our first responders, military, et cetera, and we certainly should honor those programs. And if we want stronger or more programs for loan forgiveness, then I think Congress should pass those programs and then we would implement it.

Sen. Kane (01:21:39):

So your commitment is should you be confirmed, you will fully implement existing public service loan forgiveness programs that have been passed by Congress?

Linda McMahon (01:21:47):

Those that have been passed by Congress, yes, that's the law.

Sen. Kane (01:21:49):

That's very important because during the first Trump administration, secretary DeVos and the Department of Education slow-walked approvals of public service loan forgiveness. 7,000 people over the course of four years were granted forgiveness under the programs, it was about a 3% acceptance rate of fully qualified applicants for public service loan forgiveness. During the Biden administration, more than a million applicants were approved for forgiveness as was appropriate given the congressional directive, and more than 33,000 Virginia public servants were given public service loan forgiveness. If the DOGE brothers or somebody else tells you, we don't like these programs and we don't want you to implement them, I can count on you to stand up and fully implement them to benefit those who are entitled to the benefit by the congressional statute.

Linda McMahon (01:22:45):

Yes, because that's the law.

Sen. Kane (01:22:46):

Thank you for that. If there's no Department of Education, who will enforce the Individuals with Disabilities and Education Act?

Linda McMahon (01:22:57):

Well, I think that's something that I would very much like to understand more and look into. I mean, when IDEA was originally set up, it was under HEW, the Department of Health Educational and Welfare. After the Department of Education was established in 1980, it shifted over there. I'm not sure that it's not better served in HHS, but I don't know. I haven't yet been able to be in and if I'm confirmed, it is of high priority to make sure that the students who are receiving disability funding, that that is not impacted. It is incredibly important that those programs continue to be funded.

Sen. Kane (01:23:42):

My Virginia parents who have children with disabilities are highly, highly worried right now about the elimination of Department of Education because the IDEA is about funding, and I know you've talked about that already, but it's also about enforcement. You would agree with me that there has to be vigorous enforcement of the requirements of IDEA.

Linda McMahon (01:24:07):

Well, I certainly agree that we want to make sure that that funding gets to those statements and it's not-

Sen. Kane (01:24:12):

I'm not asking about funding. I'm asking about enforcement of the provisions.

Linda McMahon (01:24:15):

Well, yes, the programs have to have accountability, all the programs do.

Sen. Kane (01:24:19):

What role do you think the federal government should play in addressing the national teacher shortage?

Linda McMahon (01:24:27):

And that is a really critical issue, that we're not attracting and keeping our teachers. One thing I think we need to make sure of, and I'm not sure it's a federal government policy, because that really should be at the state level. How are we educating and teaching and training our teachers? How are we making sure that they have the supplies that they need in their classrooms? We need to make sure that the funding is proper in the state so that they can support teachers.

Sen. Kane (01:24:56):

Let me say a word about funding. Just in the first couple of weeks of the Trump administration, here's what they have done with respect to the teacher shortage. They've canceled grants going to jurisdictions, including jurisdictions in Virginia, on teacher training programs that have been designed to reduce teacher shortages. There's also a national priority that I'm sure you're familiar with, national board certification for teachers. It's giving teachers the ability to up their professional credentials, and often local governments and occasionally the federal government will give an incentive, a financial incentive, for upping your credentials. The Trump administration canceled the grant that goes to the organization that administers national teacher certification. I get it that the primary responsibility for dealing with teacher shortages is at the state and local level, but the federal government has played an important role in this and they're important and ongoing initiatives to help states deal with it that this administration is canceling, suggesting that they don't really prioritize having highly qualified teachers standing up in front of every classroom. My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Cassidy (01:26:09):

Thank you. Senator Hawley.

Sen. Hawley (01:26:13):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Ms. McMahon, thank you for being here, nice to see you again. Let me just say this, the last four years have been in many ways, absolutely hellacious for students on our college campuses. You had the last administration which issued federal rules binding regulations that required our college campuses to put biological men into women's locker rooms. You've had multiple universities claiming the mandate, claiming the cover of the Biden administration, forcing women to accept biological men in women's sports. And so you've seen young woman after young woman denied basic safety in their changing facilities for heaven's sake, basic safety in their dorm rooms, not able to play college sports. Now, I'm delighted that a federal court finally struck down this Biden administration rule back in January, just over a month ago. And President Trump issued a clear, strong, unequivocal executive order saying that Title IX will be enforced according to its terms, which is Title IX protects women's sports, it protects women on college campuses. No more men and women's locker rooms. This is a huge victory for common sense and the rule of law.

(01:27:26)
My question to you is this, a number of universities, including some very prominent ones, ones that love to call themselves elite, have said they're not going to follow that executive order. They're going to keep having men in women's locker rooms. They're going to try to get men in women's sports. What can be done to ensure that these colleges comply with the law and that women are safe on campus and that women are able to play sports without men interfering?

Linda McMahon (01:27:54):

Well, certainly I agree with you that I was very happy to see that those restrictions on Title IX vacated so that we are really back to what Title IX was originally established to do, and that was to protect sexual discrimination. And women should feel safe in their locker rooms, they should feel safe in their spaces, they shouldn't have to be exposed to men undressing in front of them. I think I heard one person the other day say, well, guys just should hold a shower curtain in front of them so that they aren't exposing themselves. I mean, really, that's just not what we should be doing. We want to make sure that Title IX, which is the law, is enforced, and we need to uphold that.

Sen. Hawley (01:28:46):

Will you investigate those universities that are not complying with Title IX, that are not complying with the President's executive order? These universities are absolutely getting federal funds from this department, the department that you're going to run if and when you are confirmed, and I believe you will be. Will you investigate those universities and give them an ultimatum, either they need to comply with the law, they need to follow the law of Title IX, they need to follow the rules issued by this administration, your department, or no federal funding? Will you make sure that the law is enforced?

Linda McMahon (01:29:16):

Yes, we will make sure the law is enforced.

Sen. Hawley (01:29:18):

Very good. Let me ask you about…

Speaker 5 (01:29:23):

I'm a teacher, and this-

Sen. Cassidy (01:29:25):

The senator will suspend.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):

Will be terrible for my district!

Sen. Cassidy (01:29:28):

The committee will come to order. Capitol police are asked to remove the individual from the hearing room. Members of the audience are reminded that disruptions will not be permitted while the committee conducts its business. The Senator will resume.

Sen. Hawley (01:29:42):

Don't worry, Ms. McMahon, it's me, it's not you. It's all right. That effect. Let me ask you about something else that's happened on our campuses in the last four years, the wave of antisemitism that we've seen, particularly after October 7th with the attacks on Israel. Shameful attacks on Jewish students, Jewish American students, Jewish students from overseas. We have seen the most unbelievable pro-terrorist propaganda. And again, these universities taking federal money, getting federal funds, not protecting Jewish students, permitting encampments, permitting violence in some instances, attacks on students on their campuses.

(01:30:19)
The president has issued an executive order on January the 29th on measures to combat antisemitism and he directed the Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights to open Title Six investigations into a number of universities, including Columbia, Berkeley, Northwestern. Will you enforce the law Title Six to the hilt, and will you make sure that Jewish Americans are safe on our campuses for heaven's sake, and these crazy students who are committing crimes, breaking windows, smashing into buildings, trapping Jewish students in libraries, will you make sure that this stops on our college campuses that are getting all of this federal tax money?

Linda McMahon (01:30:56):

Absolutely, or face defunding of their monies.

Sen. Hawley (01:30:59):

Very good. And let me ask you about something else. For students who have come to this country on a student visa, and as you know, that's a lot of people on our college campuses. For students who are here on a student visa who have threatened their fellow students, threatened Jewish students, who have supported terrorist organizations, who have broken our law by trespassing or vandalism or acts of violence against Jewish students, will you see that those students, that their visas are revoked and they are sent home and they're not allowed to stay on our campuses under cover of our laws, committing crimes and threatening our own students? Will you return some common sense to our campuses in this way?

Linda McMahon (01:31:41):

Yes.

Sen. Hawley (01:31:41):

Fantastic.

Speaker 6 (01:31:41):

Linda McMahon, you're fired! I'm a public school graduate. Vote no on billionaires who have privatized public education.

Sen. Cassidy (01:31:45):

Capitol Police are asked to remove the individual from their hearing room. I'm not sure it's going to matter, but I'm going to remind members of the audience that disruptions are not to be permitted while the committee conducts its business. Please show people the regard you would have them show yourself if you're in this role. It may seem trite, but the rudeness of people who are trying to squelch others as they're trying to communicate in an incredibly public form is just amazing, amazingly bad. With that editorial comment, I then go to Senator Hassan.

Sen. Hassan (01:32:24):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And welcome, Ms. McMahon, it was good to meet with you in my office a little bit ago. And I've been starting these hearings with a question I never thought I'd have to ask, and I'll cut to the chase with you because you've said several times that you'll uphold the law, so I assume that if the President of the United States gives you a directive that breaks the law, you will instead do what you are legally required to do rather than his instruction.

Linda McMahon (01:32:49):

The President will not ask me to do anything that is against the law.

Sen. Hassan (01:32:53):

Well, the last month has told us that it is quite likely he may, but I am going to take you at your word

Sen. Hassan (01:33:00):

… word that you will enforce the law, because you've said it several times today.

(01:33:04)
Three weeks ago, the president unilaterally cut all federal grants by issuing an indefinite freeze. That's an unconstitutional, and yes, illegal action that was stopped by federal courts, to my previous point. Subsequent reporting indicates that the president is also planning to eliminate the Department of Education, the department that you're interviewing today to lead. And there's this little bit of, I don't know, the whole hearing right now feels kind of surreal to me. It's almost like we're being subjected to a very elegant gaslighting here, because Senator Hawley just asked you and you talked about the need to enforce protections for Jewish students on college campuses, but the very department where the enforcement would take place is the Department of Education, and he wants to eliminate it, and you say you will work with him to do that.

(01:33:58)
Similarly, you've talked about the importance of apprenticeships and other kinds of career and technical education, really important. There's bipartisan support for that here. The Republicans are in charge, we have bipartisan bill after bipartisan bill. We could go right forward with it, but there's this discussion as if we haven't made any progress on that, and there's somehow a partisan divide about that. So, I encourage you to look into that.

(01:34:28)
But I want to talk a little bit about why the Department of Education is so important. It plays a critical role in making sure that students, regardless of their zip code, race, gender, disability, or family circumstance, have access to a quality public education. It was established because Congress recognized that the country has a compelling interest in ensuring that all of our kids become self-sufficient members of our workforce and our civil society. New Hampshire schools rely on federal funding of about $2,000 per student to provide that public education. What would you say to parents in my state who are concerned about the president's attempt to cut all federal funding to New Hampshire, and to eliminate the Department of Education? Are you telling parents that their children should lose access to special education services, for example, or lose access to trained teachers or school nurses?

Linda McMahon (01:35:21):

Well, thank you, Senator, very much. Let me just object to one point, and that is that the residents in the state of New Hampshire should not be concerned that federal funding is going to be removed from their schools. How they get that federal funding may change.

Sen. Hassan (01:35:36):

My time is limited. What department do you suggest would then administer that funding?

Linda McMahon (01:35:42):

Which funding?

Sen. Hassan (01:35:43):

The special education funding.

Linda McMahon (01:35:44):

Special education? I think it could very well go back to HHS, where it started.

Sen. Hassan (01:35:49):

All right, so I just want to be clear: you're going to put special education in the hands of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Now, I want to talk about IDEA a little bit more. I want to turn to a specific issue regarding the president's plan to eliminate the Department of Education. What does the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act promise?

Linda McMahon (01:36:12):

It promises that we're going to take care of these students, and they're going to be provided with assistance that they have in the schoolrooms, the technology that they need, the assistance. And you and I talked a little bit about that with your own child.

Sen. Hassan (01:36:25):

So, IDEA guarantees children with disabilities a free, appropriate education. What is the federal investment promised to states under IDEA? What's it supposed to be?

Linda McMahon (01:36:35):

In terms of dollar amounts?

Sen. Hassan (01:36:36):

Yeah.

Linda McMahon (01:36:38):

I'm not sure.

Sen. Hassan (01:36:39):

The federal government committed, back in 1975 when it passed IDEA, to pay 40% of the average per pupil expenditure for special education. You know what the federal government actually does?

Linda McMahon (01:36:51):

I think it's around 14 to 18% at this point.

Sen. Hassan (01:36:54):

It's about 15%.

Linda McMahon (01:36:55):

But it's an appropriate amount from Congress, though. And so Congress needs to appropriate those dollars to spend.

Sen. Hassan (01:37:00):

That's right. But the president of the United States is proposing, and the Republicans in Congress are proposing, massive tax cuts for billionaires, and they're trying to pay for it by massive cuts to education and other services. And just so you know, New Hampshire would lose $60 million in IDEA funding if IDEA were eliminated.

(01:37:22)
My time is almost up. I'm just going to say this. The reason the Department of Education came about in about 1975, IDEA was passed in 1975. 1979 was the department, and Mr. Chair, I'll take just a second here. But people need to understand, people like my son, we talked about him, before IDEA, before the Department of Education existed, state and local schools did not educate these kids. They barred them from the classrooms. These kids were institutionalized and abused. There is a reason that a Department of Education and IDEA exists, and it is because educating kids with disabilities can be really hard, and it takes the national commitment to get it done. And that's why so many people are so concerned about this proposal to eliminate the department, because they think kids will once again be shoved aside, and especially kids with disabilities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Senator Bill Cassidy (01:38:16):

Thank you. Senator Scott?

Sen. Scott (01:38:18):

Thanks, sir. One of the things that you and I had an opportunity to talk about a number of months ago, I actually believe that competition does in fact increase the production, as well as improve the outcome. Typically, whether it's private sector, frankly, public education, I think competition is a key component to making things better and typically cheaper. I think charter schools is a classic example of that. Typically speaking, some of the most successful schools in the country, think about Success Academies in New York City, where you have 83% minorities, who are consistently ranked in the top five high schools in the state because all kids have high potential of learning. I think that we need to make sure that every parent has choice, so that the kids have the best chance at life. By the way, I think that public schools are part of school choice, from my perspective. Public schools, private schools, charter schools, virtual schools, homeschool. I want the parents to make that choice, because they care the most about their kids. I know some people think it's the teachers' unions: I think it's the parents. Love to hear your thoughts.

Linda McMahon (01:39:38):

I'm sorry?

Sen. Scott (01:39:39):

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Linda McMahon (01:39:40):

Oh, absolutely. I agree that competition is, I think, very key. When I first started to take a look at education, I was reading the Sunday morning paper in Greenwich, Connecticut, and I saw that public schools in Greenwich, Connecticut were not meeting the levels of No Child Left Behind. And I couldn't understand that. One of the richest communities in the country, how could there be this kind of achievement gap between students from lower-income areas to upper-income areas?

(01:40:15)
And so I tried to meet with the superintendent to talk about that article. I couldn't meet with her. I eventually talked to the governor. And the governor said to me, "If you're really interested, let me introduce you to some people." And she did. And I started talking to the folks who were developing charter schools in Connecticut, a woman named Dacia Toll, and I visited those schools, and I saw how much better those children were performing. They were rapidly coming up to grade level reading and doing math. They were teaching differently. And I thought this is a real opportunity. This is a charter school, which is a public school, and in the state of Connecticut, it is not fully funded, the facility is not provided. And so it's a public-private partnership to make sure that these schools are offering choice and competitiveness. So we saw quite… It was clear evidence, how those schools provided an opportunity for students to succeed.

Sen. Scott (01:41:11):

Awesome. You only have two minutes left. That was a quick… Maybe I have as much time as I want. I'll be the chair for… It's great. Oh my goodness gracious, never mind. I didn't see that hammer you had there. So, back in 2017, I started working on creating a definition in higher education for anti-Semitism. I thought then that we were seeing a little uptick, and having been raised in the Deep South, I'm familiar with discrimination, the challenges that come with, unfortunately, the color of people's skin and/or their religious beliefs. And if you look at the level of hate that we've seen recently on college campuses towards our Jewish students, I find it disgusting, frankly. I hope that you will commit to investigating reports of anti-Semitism to the full extent of the law, especially on college campuses around this country.

Linda McMahon (01:42:07):

Yes, absolutely, there should be no discrimination of any form, but I fully believe that there should be First Amendment protection for discourse and for freedom of speech. But when you become involved in activities that are actually endangering the students that are on campus, then that is not what should happen. And those schools that accept federal funding that allow that to happen should face defunding.

Sen. Scott (01:42:35):

Thank you. And my last question, I know that many of us on my side of the aisle think that DEI is about power more than it is about anything else. I think diversity actually is very healthy for our country. It is the backbone and the strength of our country. I think diversity, equity, and inclusion is a political movement that has very little to do with the advancement of people based on their merit, based on what they have to offer, and more to do with about gaining power and political position.

(01:43:04)
President Trump and I worked a lot on HBCUs, historically Black colleges and universities. He was able to take that funding to the highest level in the history of the country. He was the first president, and the only president, to make that funding permanent. There's no doubt that our country still struggles with the issue of race, but one of the shining examples of a merit-based system that helps those who do not have see the perspective that the American Dream is for them, I hope that you'll commit to continuing the efforts of President Trump on supporting historically Black colleges and universities.

Linda McMahon (01:43:39):

Yes. As a matter of fact, I met with the president of Howard University a week ago, and we sat and talked through a lot of the different programs that are offered there, and I was very impressed. And I understand that I believe that I'm an honorary board of regent member, that may not be the right description, by virtue of… If I am confirmed as the Secretary of Education. And I look forward to continuing those programs.

Sen. Scott (01:44:01):

And with my last five minutes?

Senator Roger Marshall (01:44:04):

Make it fast.

Sen. Scott (01:44:04):

Okay, I'm done.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:44:07):

Thank you, Senator Scott. I see Senator Hickenlooper jumped in in front of the freshman? There's no-

Senator John Hickenlooper (01:44:12):

I'll yield to the freshman, just out of deference to her frosh status.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:44:17):

Okay.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:44:17):

Thank you.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:44:18):

Senator Blunt Rochester, you're recognized for five minutes.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:44:21):

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and Mr. Hickenlooper for that sharing of the time. I will first start out by acknowledging that today, here with us, are representatives from the Delaware State Education Association, and I want to thank them and all of their members for being here in Washington, but more importantly for what they do for the students and families in the state of Delaware. I also want to thank you, Ms. McMahon, for taking the time to come and meet with me and talk about a myriad of issues. I especially appreciated your candor in our meeting. And as I'm sitting here watching the passion of the participants, of the members, it is clear that education is so important to this country. And I am clear-eyed about the challenges that we face in accomplishing the goal of ensuring that all students are able to be prioritized.

(01:45:18)
I shared my concerns about the call to abolish the department. I am particularly concerned, as a former cabinet secretary myself. Cabinet secretaries do have the influence, the power, the responsibility to share what is good, what is bad, what is wrong. And so I understand waiting until you get into a position to figure some things out. But there are core, basic things, like do we have… The confusion that people have over this executive order on diversity. They are scared. The fact that school kids are afraid to come to school, maybe because of their status. We're hearing all kinds of stories, and that's why this hearing is so important, that's why this position is so important.

(01:46:10)
And I'm just a little confused, because part of the reason why it was created was because in HEW, children were buried into these big departments. Why do you think that a department that is focused and that really is dealing with children, whether it's civil rights, disability, providing the checks and balances, why do you think that it is better to stick the functions of dealing with children with disabilities in a huge department, that will not have the same priority?

Linda McMahon (01:46:47):

Thank you very much, Senator, for that question. The bottom line is because it's not working. Department of Education was set up in 1980, and since that time, we have spent almost a trillion dollars, and we have watched our performance scores continue to go down. I do believe that it is a responsibility to make sure that our children do have equal access to excellent education. I think that that is best handled at the state level closest to the states, working with state administrators, teachers, parents, who should have input into their curriculum.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:47:23):

I have only two minutes and I just want to follow up, do you believe that any school benefiting from taxpayer dollars should be required to follow federal civil rights laws?

Linda McMahon (01:47:35):

Schools should be required to follow the laws.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:47:39):

Anybody getting taxpayer dollars. And so that's good. So, private schools should not be able to turn away a student with a disability, or a student based on their religion, or their ethnicity, or race?

Linda McMahon (01:47:52):

Well, private schools aren't taking federal dollars.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:47:57):

But I'm saying-

Linda McMahon (01:47:58):

So, they have the ability to say that they… If they do not believe that they-

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:48:02):

They did receive them. They should not.

Linda McMahon (01:48:03):

If they believe that they cannot best serve that student, they're not taking federal dollars, then they have the right not to accept that student.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:48:10):

But I'm speaking specifically when we talk about, there's a lot of conversation about vouchers, if private schools take federal dollars, can they turn away a child based on a disability or religion or race?

Linda McMahon (01:48:23):

Well, I think that there are also some public schools who are saying that they don't have the-

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:48:27):

It's really just a yes or no.

Linda McMahon (01:48:28):

No, it's not. It really isn't.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:48:31):

For me, if you want to follow up, because I'm kind of running out of time.

Linda McMahon (01:48:35):

Okay, I'd be happy to follow, and I'd look forward to following up with you to discuss that. Thank you very much.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:48:39):

Okay, because this is one of the big concerns that we hear about. Also, I believe that as a country, as I said, we've benefited from checks and balances. It's a hallmark. If you're concerned, how would you defend the rights of all students if state and local governments are unable or won't address violations of students' civil rights? For example, how will you intervene if a student is being bullied or harassed on the basis of race or disability?

Linda McMahon (01:49:07):

Well, certainly civil rights are the rights of everyone, and so we'd want to make sure that our schools are enforcing. Bullying shouldn't happen anywhere. No child should be made to feel uncomfortable. So, it is-

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:49:21):

So, you'd continue-

Linda McMahon (01:49:22):

But the Department of Education does not control that-

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:49:24):

But would you put this in-

Linda McMahon (01:49:24):

… from Washington.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:49:25):

Would you put this in the Department… When we talked, you mentioned the Department of Justice. Would you move this to the Department of Justice?

Linda McMahon (01:49:32):

Well, one of the things that we talked about, as I said this morning, that I think there may be more appropriate places, that maybe the department OCR, that is currently in the Department of Education, is better served in the Department of Justice, where they have civil rights attorneys as well. But I don't know those things yet. If I'm confirmed, I look forward to getting in and really digesting and understanding where all of these particular aspects need to fit to best serve our students. That's the goal, is to protect our students.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:50:04):

I look forward to following up. You can understand there is a lot of distrust, based on people's motivations in just the past few weeks. I think that's why you're seeing all of what you've seen in this audience today, in terms of participation of the folks here. This is important. Our students are important, as you know, and so I really hope that this administration, and that you, will recognize that there are students, there are teachers, there are parents that need the support and the help. And we hope that you will continue as well with your support of HBCUs. I yield back.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:50:53):

Thank you, Senator.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (01:50:53):

Thank you so much, Senator Marshall.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:50:54):

Thank you so much. Good morning, Ms. McMahon. Good to see you.

Linda McMahon (01:50:58):

Thank you. Good to see you too.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:51:00):

You bet. Ms. McMahon, when I speak to youth, I typically talk about the three pillars of my life: faith, family, and education. And thanks to a strong faith, a loving family, and the public educators in my life, I was a first-generation college kid who got to live my American Dream, and become a physician and practice in rural medicine. So, this education thing is so important to all of us on both sides of the dais. I raised four kids in public schools. And unfortunately, I've seen the deterioration of the education system. And again, we have the most incredible teachers and coaches back home, and I'm grateful for all of them, but I think we'd all agree we're going the wrong direction. Just really big picture, what would be your top priorities? How do we change the ship's direction?

Linda McMahon (01:51:54):

Well, certainly the president has given a very clear directive that he would like to look, in totality, at the Department of Education, and believes that the bureaucracy of it should be closed. That we should return education to our states. That the best education is that closest to the kids. And that we should work with our local schools, with our superintendents, with our parents, to make sure that the education that our students are getting are the ones that is best for them. It's not one-size-fits all education policy throughout the country.

(01:52:29)
Governors have taken great strides in implementing school choice, making sure that schools have the funding that they need, and we've seen public education in those states actually improve. There've been studies to show that, and so I'm very hopeful that we will get back to the basics of education, so that our children can read when they leave third grade, and that eighth grade students can do math and read at proficiency. Today, 1/3, only 1/ 3 of high school students graduating can read proficiently. That means 2/3 can't. We are failing our students, our Department of Education, and what we are doing today is not working, and we need to change it.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:53:15):

Thank you. Ms. McMahon, should boys, biological boys, be allowed to compete against girls in sports?

Linda McMahon (01:53:23):

I do not believe that biological boys should be able to compete against girls in sports, and I think now that certainly not only have the people spoken, because that was something that President Trump ran very hard on, but also the court has spoken.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:53:39):

Ms. McMahon, I feel like that anti-Semitism has become endemic in our universities. Would you be open to some type of an anti-Semitism commission to evaluate the progress of the universities on this issue?

Linda McMahon (01:53:55):

Yes, I would, and I'd look forward, perhaps, working with you or other members of the committee on such a commission.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:54:01):

Okay. Let's talk about Workforce Pell Grants for a second. And we can't keep doing what we're doing. The average starting salary for graduates from our community colleges and technical colleges back home is higher than our four-year universities, and their debt is close to zero, if not zero as well. Would you speak to some more of what do you feel about more flexibility of Pell Grants?

Linda McMahon (01:54:23):

Well, I certainly would like to see Workforce Pell Grants, and it goes through various stages of getting passed, but I definitely think that Workforce Pell Grants are something that could stimulate our economy, provide opportunity for those who want to participate in skilled-based learning, to have the opportunity, if we'd have short-term certificates of Pell Grants that would get those students into the workplace faster if they want to be electricians, HVAC developers, or-

Senator Roger Marshall (01:54:54):

And apprenticeships as well?

Linda McMahon (01:54:56):

And apprenticeships and internships, all of that.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:54:58):

As well.

Linda McMahon (01:54:59):

In fact, in the first Trump administration, I was part of, with SBA and working with the Department of Labor, of making sure that there were more apprenticeship programs across the country, because those are very, very vital to the growth of not only our economy, but our businesses in general.

Senator Roger Marshall (01:55:18):

Thank you, Ms. McMahon. I appreciate your answers, and look forward to supporting you. Again, education is so important to all of us. To live that American Dream, we need a strong education system. I know you're committed to that as well. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Senator Bill Cassidy (01:55:33):

Senator Hickenlooper.

Senator John Hickenlooper (01:55:35):

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. McMahon, for your public service and for coming back and going through all this again. I thought when you were talking to Senator Blunt Rochester that your comment that bullying shouldn't happen anywhere is absolutely true. It shouldn't happen schools, it shouldn't happen in homes, it shouldn't happen in government. And I'm not going to go over I agree on the things so much. You've covered anti-Semitism and making sure that there's great clarity around that.

(01:56:05)
I want to talk a little bit about history and the teaching of history. I used to talk about topophilia, which means love of place, and I believe it's a basic building block of economic development of people's affection for a place. And that affection comes largely through the teaching of the history of that part of your state or your county, however it gets broken down. But I think teaching every part of our history is important.

(01:56:38)
Colorado, some of the worst parts of our history. Governor Ralph Carr, a Republican governor who's one of the few Western governors who, when we were putting large detention facilities together for Japanese-Americans at the beginning of World War II, he said, "Not only we're not going to support that, but any Japanese-Americans who want to come, should come to live in Colorado and live freely." We had the Sand Creek Massacre, where Colorado volunteers slaughtered almost 200 mostly women and children.

(01:57:14)
But I think you mentioned in your testimony that the importance of teaching true history, and I understand the emphasis on positive, but I want to make sure that we agree on the teaching of all of it, both positive and negative, just because as an entrepreneur, you learn more from your mistakes than from what you do right. And I think making sure that we don't gloss over the troubling parts of our history, we're not letting that slip behind us.

Linda McMahon (01:57:44):

Well, clearly. I do agree that we should teach our history, the true history, the good, the bad, and the ugly, because we don't learn unless we recognize our mistakes. I will say that the Department of Education does not establish curriculum, but that is handled at the state level. But clearly, I am in favor of our history being taught exactly as it happened.

Senator John Hickenlooper (01:58:09):

Right. Well, I appreciate that. It's funny, a lot of people don't, so it's good to get that on the record.

(01:58:15)
We talked a little bit about apprenticeships, and the importance of apprenticeships. I think the comment you made just that almost 2/3 of our kids, when they graduate from high school, cannot read proficiently is a disgrace that we should all not accept. And as I think as you recognize, it's not that we don't have good teachers. I think we have great teachers in every state. It's very powerful statistic that in almost every survey, parents think that the school systems are broken except theirs. They think their school is pretty good. And I think that's a reflection of the quality of teachers we have.

(01:58:49)
But this notion that everybody should go to college, I think, is prevalent and persistent. You've talked about the importance of alternative career pathways, and when you were in the office, we discussed this. One of the major issues we hear on trying to push apprenticeships not just to trades and not adult apprenticeships at 18, but 16, 17, 18-year-olds, while they're in high school, going and working a couple days a week in an insurance company, could be a law firm, anywhere, but learning what a job place looks like, coming back to school and learning things that might make them more successful there. One of the problems is that type of apprenticeship, so many of the academic advisors are just focused on that four-year college track, and that's what the parents are kind of expecting. They may not even realize what apprenticeships are around there. What can you do, as Secretary of Education, to share with high schools all across America that these other alternative pathways are available?

Linda McMahon (01:59:54):

Well, certainly I've been on the record, even when I ran for the Senate in the state of Connecticut, I ran twice and didn't win, but I always talked about how we needed skills in our country, that we did not have the trades that we need to have today. But I also talked about how parents, I think, are encouraging their children only to go to college, and not necessarily recognizing that there are other avenues that those children could pursue. I clearly was a parent who were pushing both my children to go to college, but I realize today that there are other opportunities for students to succeed and enter into a pathway that they will be successful in their lives.

(02:00:36)
So, I think apprenticeships, internships, working the public-private sector to make sure that we have our curriculum that is designed for the needs of the communities and business, I think that's incredibly important. That's one of the things that we've striven to do at Sacred Heart University, that I sit on the board of education. What are the needs of the community, and how can that curriculum be structured to satisfy that need? And that's, I think, critically important.

Senator John Hickenlooper (02:01:02):

Great. And we're out of time. Of course, I've got millions more questions. Maybe we'll continue that discussion. I appreciate you being open about not wanting to end the Department of Education completely, and your willingness to look at Pell Grants on a larger scale. Thank you.

Senator Bill Cassidy (02:01:19):

Senator Banks?

Senator Jim Banks (02:01:20):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just as a side note, I'm struck by the outburst of some of the protesters in the room, and a number of them have told us that they're teachers. Can you imagine them teaching? These people teaching our kids in classrooms across America, and they come here and act like children, with outburst, and try to prevent us, in an attempt to prevent us from doing our job, to move you forward, to do the important work that you have to do?

(02:01:50)
For me, that's what this is all about. I have three daughters who are in grade school, in public schools, and I want to get politics out of the classroom. I want political flags and political statements and ideologies out of the classroom. I want teachers to teach our kids, and prepare them for the jobs of the future. And I'm very intrigued with what President Trump is talking about in dismantling the federal Department of Education, because I served in the State House, and the Indiana state constitution devotes a number of chapters to educating our kids. And the last time I checked, the federal Constitution doesn't say a single thing about education, because our founders, in their wisdom, recognized that that is a role of the state.

(02:02:35)
And Ms. McMahon, I know we've talked about this before, but this is about an attitude. An attitude of empowering teachers and schools and moms and dads to give our kids the best chance that they can possibly have. And I know that you agree with this, but I'm going to ask anyway, can't the state of Indiana do a whole lot better of a job of spending dollars on education rather than bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.?

Linda McMahon (02:02:59):

I certainly believe that to be true, Senator, yes. And that is definitely what the president believes as well. That, I'll be repetitive, that education is best handled closest to the child to understand what that child needs and what the community needs. And working with parents, parental rights are so important in educating our children, and I definitely believe that should be returned to the states.

Senator Jim Banks (02:03:22):

Speaking of wasting money, the Biden Department of Education allocated over $1 billion in grants toward diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, and that included $4 million toward a, quote, "culturally responsive computer science camp for high schoolers", a million dollars to train elementary teachers in Iowa on, quote, "equity-centered education", $38,000 for a one-day session with a, quote, "equity consultant" in Michigan. Countless dollars toward race-based hiring, which is unconstitutional and

Senator Jim Banks (02:04:00):

…and unlawful, by the way. Will you commit to ending all racial discrimination in government programming at the Department of Education?

Linda McMahon (02:04:07):

That will be my goal, absolutely. And I'd look forward to working with you and other members of the committee as well, and with Congress to make sure that we can take the ideology, if you will, out of education and focus on actually teaching our students to read and to write and to do arithmetic because they cannot be successful if they cannot do the basics.

Senator Jim Banks (02:04:30):

Some of my colleagues have talked about the rise of anti-Semitism on college campuses, and I think one of the motivators of that is money that flows from adversarial foreign countries like China and other countries with an anti-American agenda that are donated to many of our colleges and universities in the United States of America. And it turns out that the Department of Education plays a key role in reporting and making those foreign donations transparent. While I want to ban them altogether, China should never be donating money to colleges and universities in Indiana or anywhere else in the country. Have you thought about what other steps that we can take to eliminate foreign influences, especially anti-American influences on our college campuses?

Linda McMahon (02:05:17):

Well, I think what we've seen is the lack of transparency of where the money comes from, how much, and what it's used for when it gets to colleges. And I think there absolutely has to be more transparency in tracking that money.

Senator Jim Banks (02:05:30):

I saw what President Trump did in his first term in the four years of tightening many of these donations and blocking them, making them transparent. And I served on the Education Committee in the House for eight years, so four years of President Trump, four years of President Biden. There was no attention paid to this under President Biden. Chinese Communist Party dollars flowing to colleges, universities that are no longer reported, made transparent. I know that will be a big priority of yours because we talked about it and I want to do everything I can to help you block it. The public should know that adversaries of the United States of America are giving money to the universities that they're sending their kids to. So thank you very much for your leadership. You have my full support. I look forward to working with you. I yield back.

Linda McMahon (02:06:20):

Thank you.

Sen. Cassidy (02:06:21):

Senator Markey?

Senator Markey (02:06:24):

Thank you. Yesterday, President Trump said he would like the Department of Education to be closed immediately. He called the department a big con job. Education funding helps us work towards a country where every student can go to their school knowing that they will get the same education as the family that can afford private school. Public school is not a con job. It's equality for every student, regardless of income. It helps guarantee that every student, including the 26 million low-income students, the 10 million rural, 5 million English language learners, 7 million disabled students and 1 million homeless, can go to public school knowing they have the same opportunity as every other student.

(02:07:23)
Trump's crusade to abolish the Department of Education and "root out waste and fraud and corruption" for cuts to public schools is an attack on every public school student, parent, teacher, paraprofessional, administrator, and school worker in this country. Waste, fraud and corruption is code for cuts to public education for all of those students. So I have here the tax of a bill I've been working on, the No Cuts to Public Schools Act. This bill would guarantee that federal funding to public schools could not be cut during the length of President Trump's administration. Ms. McMahon, can you commit today to not cutting funding for public schools in this country?

Linda McMahon (02:08:25):

Well, certainly what I'll commit to, sir, is that funding for schools is appropriated by Congress and that funding should continue. Congress will continue to pass those laws. The Department of Education is not doing that.

Senator Markey (02:08:38):

So will you oppose any cuts to public education, yes or no?

Linda McMahon (02:08:44):

Well, the president, he is not saying that we should cut funding to public education.

Senator Markey (02:08:50):

Yes, he is.

Linda McMahon (02:08:50):

Well, I would disagree with you there.

Senator Markey (02:08:53):

Elon Musk yesterday announced he would immediately cut $900 million from the Department of Education. He stood right next to Trump and made that very clear. So the answer I'm looking for, by the way, is a yes. I will fight to make sure that public funding is not cut because that announcement was just made, the $900 million cut. And we know that's just a down payment to gut the education of every public school student in America.

(02:09:26)
And by the way, to find the billions of dollars that are going to be needed for the tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires in our country, they have to go to the Department of Education. They have to go to Clean Air and Clean Water. They have to go to Medicaid. They have to go to the Affordable Care Act. They have to go for to all of the programs that they are calling waste, fraud, and corruption, but that's just another way of saying the programs that help the poor and the sick and the elderly, the disabled in our society. That's what we are talking about because they want all of these programs gutted to find the funding for the tax breaks.

(02:10:02)
So DOGE, as it's rumbling through the Department of Education right now, just stands for Department of Gutting Education. That's what they're doing. They're inside looking at it. $900 million is the down payment. So Ms. McMahon, can you commit today to fight so that not $1 from public schools goes towards paying for tax breaks for billionaires and billionaires?

Linda McMahon (02:10:27):

Well, that was certainly a broad view of what is going on right now today. We're trying to find waste, fraud, and abuse. Those groups that are in the Department of Education, from my understanding, have looked at competitive contracts that are bidding. And let's see where that money's going. How's it being spent? I'm not there. If I may, Senator-

Senator Markey (02:10:48):

What they're doing-

Linda McMahon (02:10:49):

You've asked me a question. I would really like the opportunity to answer.

Senator Markey (02:10:52):

What they're doing is first, they announce the cuts, then they go to find where it is, so it's all backwards. And again, we know what the plot is. And ultimately, the answer I'm looking for is a yes because if even $1 flows away from an educator or a student towards a billionaire tax break, that will be immoral in our country, immoral. These kids deserve the funding which they are receiving. And Donald Trump and Elon Musk should be ashamed that they are working harder for billionaires than they are for working families for these kids who need help. 90% of disabled students go to public schools. 95% of students with disabilities go to public schools. And Trump and Musk want to take from those students to give to billionaires. That is immoral. It's wrong, it's unjust, and we're going to fight it every single step of the way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Cassidy (02:11:54):

Thank you, Senator Markey. Senator Moody?

Senator Moody (02:11:57):

Hello. It's so great to be with you. Thank you for joining us today. I had like for you to have some time to answer some questions. Wouldn't that be unique? I'm wondering, one of my very first important questions is, is it harder to sit composed and calm and focused among a bunch of WWE wrestlers or is it harder to sit in this hearing with people popping up and yelling at you all day?

Linda McMahon (02:12:26):

I can stay pretty composed and focused in either environment.

Senator Moody (02:12:31):

As you know, the United States Department of Education provides more than $120 billion in grants, and much of that flows through to our public university systems. And the Higher Education Act makes a condition for higher education to receive a single dollar of that money, that higher education institution has to be accredited. Now, that's not by the Department of Education. They have delegated that to private entities of persons that aren't accountable to voters, aren't accountable to the president, and they decide who's accredited, which institution actually is eligible to get all that money.

(02:13:15)
In Florida, we have had the experience that our post-secondary institutional accreditor, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges, also known as SACS, has decided that it will threaten that accreditation, meaning threaten our federal funding, if we even suggest that maybe a former policy leader, lawmaker, conservative might go into leadership in a university, or one of my dear friends Senator Scott, former Governor Scott, had suggested that he was going to go on campus and speak about hazing. Seems pretty expected as a parent. I would want that. And our accreditation was threatened. Even in North Carolina when they wanted to institute a program focused on ideological diversity, their accreditation was threatened.

(02:14:09)
As Attorney General of Florida, I sued. I think there's a constitutional problem with the Department of Education delegating that authority to a private organization who dictates whether someone can get federal funding and tries to insert their own preferences and policies down into the education policies of a state and force it on our educational institutions. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that today. I don't think it has just frustrated Florida. I think, yes, we were one of the first states to stand up and fight and go to court and try and stop that, but a lot of the themes that you're hearing, especially with some of the nominees are we're trying to stop unelected bureaucrats or unelected people in these private organizations that have been either getting a lot of authority or a lot of federal money pushing policies into the states. And we don't think that's right. So I wanted to talk to you. Do you think that's right?

Linda McMahon (02:15:05):

No, I don't think that's right.

Senator Moody (02:15:06):

And if you're confirmed, which I expect that you will be, and I hope that you are, I'm very impressed not only with some of your educational participation in your own state, but your managerial experience, I think we need that right now, but will you commit to me that you will look into some of the regulations and guidance documents that relate to higher education institutions being able to change their accreditors?

Linda McMahon (02:15:30):

Yes, definitely. And I'd look forward to working with you on that. And there's been a lot of issues raised about these five to seven accreditors that are the ones that are deciding these fates today. And I think that needs to have a broad overview and review.

Senator Moody (02:15:45):

It may be that we have to look at the accreditation process and as Congress, you might need to amend the Higher Education Act to make them more accountable. But I do believe, and we're still in litigation, I say we, I'm trying to change hats now as Senator Moody, but Florida is still in litigation about this issue because I do think it's people getting frustrated because in these agencies and in these private organizations, you're seeing an ideological agenda, a policy driven agenda, and people that are willing to implement it whether they have the authority or not. And I believe that is where you're seeing so much frustration and why you saw such an overwhelming expectation that this president changed things. And I think you're going to help him do that. And I, for one, am looking forward to that. Thank you, Chairman.

Linda McMahon (02:16:37):

Thank you very much.

Sen. Cassidy (02:16:40):

Thank you, Senator Moody. Now it is Senator Kim's turn.

Senator Kim (02:16:44):

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for coming before us. I guess I just wanted to jump in. I've heard a couple of times you mentioned that you believe that Congress would need to be involved if there is an effort to abolish the Department of Education, that's right?

Linda McMahon (02:16:57):

Correct.

Senator Kim (02:16:58):

Do you know if President Trump shares that sentiment?

Linda McMahon (02:17:01):

I've heard President Trump recently of the last couple of weeks, in conjunction with his fervor to shut down the bureaucracy of the Department of Education, he has also stated that he will work with Congress to make that happen.

Senator Kim (02:17:16):

Elon Musk, have you had any conversations with him about the Department of Education, him or his team?

Linda McMahon (02:17:21):

I have not.

Senator Kim (02:17:22):

Why I raise this is that I just came from another hearing that was talking about foreign assistance, talking about USAID. USAID is another element of our federal government that was codified by Congress and we see an effort there to dismantle it, not fully abolish it, but dismantle it basically down to about 600 people, gut everything, put it under the State Department. So I guess I wanted to just ask you if something like that was proposed by the Trump administration for the Department of Education, does that have to come to Congress?

Linda McMahon (02:17:58):

Certainly there are departments that I believe that are in Department of Education by statute, and those have to be looked at. Could they moved-

Senator Kim (02:18:04):

And what elements of the Department of Education are those that are protected by statute?

Linda McMahon (02:18:09):

I believe IDEA is, I think Title I is, and I'd like look into it and discuss it more fully with you.

Senator Kim (02:18:18):

But for those that are not codified by statute, you're saying those are ones that the executive branch can do as they please?

Linda McMahon (02:18:25):

Well, I think that I would like to look into that more.

Senator Kim (02:18:29):

Why I mentioned this as well is that just in the first couple of weeks here, we had a lot of conversation about the surge of anti-Semitism, our strong support and making sure we're protecting students from that type of harassment, from that type of intimidation, absolutely something we need to stand against in terms of anti-Semitism. But I guess I was alarmed because what we ended up seeing is that multiple attorneys and other staff members of the department's Office of Civil Rights have been placed on administrative leave with no notice, no explanation. And some of them were in the process of investigating cases directly related to anti-Semitic harassment. So I guess I wanted to just ask you, is that something you would support? Do you think that that's the right actions that we should be taking at this time that we see such a surge in anti-Semitism?

Linda McMahon (02:19:19):

Well, Senator Kim, I know it's not a great comfort for me to say this morning that I'm not yet confirmed and have not yet been in the department. I don't know about all the administrative people that have been put on leave. I want to look into that. I want to understand it. I want to assess the department. I can't do that unless I'm confirmed and I get there. But I would certainly be willing to come back to you with a more specific answer.

Senator Kim (02:19:47):

But does that concern you at all? If you are confirmed, would you make that a priority to go and see whether or not this is going to impact our ability to respond to anti-Semitism?

Linda McMahon (02:20:00):

No, I would want to make sure that we have everything that we need to have in place to protect our students on campuses.

Senator Kim (02:20:09):

One thing that we have been having this debate on here in Congress is about this. And what we've seen is that Republicans have called for a 25% cut in the budget of the Office of Civil Rights. Is that something you would support?

Linda McMahon (02:20:23):

Again, I would want to see exactly what that impact is going to be and understand it.

Senator Kim (02:20:28):

Look, I guess I'm frustrated because I feel like this is such a clear place where we can just say, "Yes, we want to make sure we have as much resources as possible to be able to fight anti-Semitism, to make sure that we're addressing these needs of such a surge." When we see a surge in anti-Semitism, of course we would want a surge in resources to focus on that. So I just wanted to raise that because this whole debate that we're having right now, it feels like it's untethered from just the reality on the ground. And I just urge you, if you are confirmed, that we are understanding the human impact of the problems that are here.

(02:21:08)
I have a second grader and a fourth grader. I've got two little boys. And I just had their parent-teacher conference. And yes, we talked through the performance of my kids, the data that NAEP and others are used, the Institute for Education Sciences. Now we're seeing $900 million cuts to that coming out from Elon Musk and his team. But I just raise this, is the reason why teachers are concerned right now, it's not about their own salaries and their own careers. When they talk to me, they talk about the kids. They talk about the kids. I find that to be so powerful when these teachers, they're saying, "Look, I'm not asking about my own career. I'm asking about the kids." So just as you proceed, just remember that. Parents are very scared right now. I yield back.

Sen. Cassidy (02:21:59):

Thank you, Senator Kim. Senator Alsobrooks?

Senator Alsobrooks (02:22:02):

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to just begin my remarks. Hello, thank you so much Ms. McMahon for being here today. And I'd like to just begin follow up with what my colleague said and address what I regard as very disparaging comments. I'd just like to say first by one of my colleagues regarding the educators who have come here today. And in the same vein as Senator Kim, the educators who are here, my colleague referred to them as these people and said, "Who would want to be taught by these people?" The passionate educators who have come here today, not on behalf of themselves. They're here on behalf of our children. And I want to address how shameful it was to say who would want to be taught by them. They're exactly the kind of people who we want teaching our children.

(02:22:45)
The question I have for you today, I know your parents were civil servants, and so you recognize the importance that they bring to their work, the care and concern that they bring to their work. And I have been very concerned regarding the treatment of many of our civil servants, those especially in the Department of Education. You may know that last night a number of them were laid off with 15 minutes to have their computers turned off, access to it, just treated really horribly. So the question I have for you, because one of my constituents on a town hall I hosted last night with 17,000 Marylanders said that they are working in a culture of fear at the department and that civil servants at the department don't know who will be fired next, have little guidance and feel like they can't do their jobs. And they care very much about the work they're doing. So how will you address the culture of fear in an environment where civil servants, both Democrats and Republicans, who are working there feeling undervalued and attacked by this administration?

Linda McMahon (02:23:50):

Well, thank you very much for that question, Senator. And it's always difficult to downsize. It's always difficult to restructure and reorganize in any department. I have faced that in the business world because you know that you do impact people's lives. But at this particular point, I know that there are people that are being placed on administrative leave, which means they are still receiving full benefits and salary while their jobs are being looked at and how the department is being evaluated overall. I think people should always be treated with respect and with humility. And I would hope that that is what is going on within the Department of Education. I'm not there in person to see that yet, but it was certainly something that I would strive to do in any reorganization that we would take.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:24:39):

Okay. And I'd also like to ask you, regarding the president's targeting of legally binding collective bargaining agreements, he has really targeted those, to ask you whether you will commit to abiding by the agreement and upholding civil service employment protections?

Linda McMahon (02:24:58):

I will certainly commit to working with you and to looking into those issues if I'm confirmed to be the Secretary of Education.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:25:07):

And also to ask you whether you will commit to ensuring that federal workers with disabilities, many of them are very concerned about whether they will continue to have reasonable accommodations as required by law.

Linda McMahon (02:25:22):

Well, as required by law is the key phrase there, yes.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:25:26):

Okay. Well, in the same vein, there are some who are concerned about being forced now to reapply for accommodations. These are people who have had those accommodations given to them, and they're being told now that they must reapply for those accommodations with their supervisors. And so will you commit that the department's civil servants with disabilities will have their reasonable accommodations honored without interference or delay?

Linda McMahon (02:25:51):

I'll certainly commit if I'm there and confirmed to look into all of those and to get back to you.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:25:58):

Okay. And finally, I'd like to ask you regarding the freezing of funds. If you are confirmed, would you support any directive from the president to freeze funds that have been appropriated by Congress, including funds that students and families rely on to pay for college?

Linda McMahon (02:26:17):

If they've been appropriated by Congress, those funds should be disseminated.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:26:21):

Okay. And so you would block any directive, you would not adhere to any directive, including some of our HBCUs in my state, Bowie, Coppin State, Morgan State, you would not interfere with the freezing of those funds?

Linda McMahon (02:26:34):

I commit to you that I will look into every single one of those programs so that I can get back to you and say, "This is what I've found. This is what I've discovered. This is what the action is being taken against it or in for of it," because I'd want to be very inclusive with you on that regard.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:26:52):

Okay. The final question, I just have nine seconds here. Title I, I know that you said you support it. If the Department of Education is dismantled, what will you do to protect the students who rely, who are disadvantaged and impoverished on Title I funds?

Linda McMahon (02:27:05):

Well, Title I funds are appropriated by Congress. They flow directly to the states today. They go to the State Department of Education, then deployed to the districts. So the Department of Education is not really involved in that distribution.

Senator Alsobrooks (02:27:18):

Okay. Thank you so much.

Sen. Cassidy (02:27:22):

Thank you, Senator Alsobrooks. Senator Sanders?

Senator Sanders (02:27:25):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record 18 letters opposing Ms. McMahon as Secretary of Education.

Sen. Cassidy (02:27:33):

So ordered. I'll now conclude, but let me first say that the Capitol Police are requesting that the audience remain seated until Ms. McMahon leaves, so just to first say that. Ms. McMahon, thank you very much for being here. You've handled yourself extremely well. I now ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record 55 letters of support for Ms. McMahon's nomination. And this concludes our hearing. For any senators who wish to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due tomorrow at 5:00 PM. Once more, audience, please stay seated until Ms. McMahon leaves. Thank you.